New Dock

[Abalone]

To the guy that built that new dock in the Middle of Roethe hole. " I HATE YOU "

You know how many springers I have caught in that spot ?

How do they get away with that ? It's not the end of the world but one less good place for a boat
to troll..

[jet]

Abalone... thats a little strong. Not a good thing to buld a dock in a sweet spot. Maybe the dock will change the current and develope even a better spot?

Jet~~~

[illbfish]

I agree with Abalone. When will the construction on our waterways stop?. If the water belongs to everyone how do these guys get the right to inpeed my access? [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

[hookem]

I live a couple of houses upriver of that guy.
That dock is right on the edge of the trollers route they make in front of my house. Its so far into the river that I think he is danger of having damage from logs and other crap flooting into it. But so far he not had a problem.
Hay you guy wave to me....I live right were the little creek comes in the the river. Yesterday I saw "duds plug" out front.

[Abalone]

I seen the guy out there last year ! He's a jerk. My statement stands. You have to see this spot.
It will mess up the way people fish there. Used to be able to swing around and come from the inside, Now the Dock will force boats to bunch up on the outside. There is plenty of room for a dock but this guy had to move it too far into the river for some reason. If I own property on the river can I build a dock smack in the middle of the Channel. What is the rule on this ?

Who regulates this ? What agency. I haven't seen it yet but I hear they built a big dock smack in the middle of the Garbage hole. More congestion..

I must be getting too old.

[ 02-16-2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Abalone ]

[Abalone]

I was there when that happened. It was during the bass tournie. He had it on and went down the norrows and lost it. I went to the same spot and tossed a copper Blue fox and hooked a about a three pound Small mouth bass and lost it. Too funny. That exact spot is where the dock it now.

Well maybe the dock will attract springers, Who knows ? No sense crying about it.

I will offer that guy a seat in my boat if I see him. Take him fishing let him catch a springer then
he will be on our side. Who knows. Until then I still hate him. {Smile}

[jokester]

I will offer that guy a seat in my boat if I see him. Take him fishing let him catch a springer then he will be on our side. Who knows. Until then I still hate him. {Smile}

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">LOL

-jokester

[Grain of Salt]

Oh boy, this is one that gets me going, I live about 10 houses up from here, this was a prime high water spot and now its shot.
I called DSL to see if there is a complaint that could be filed based on restricting the public access to the river, they claim no but gave me a number at the county I could call, maybe if enough of us get together we could at least have future input.
The property line of this residence does go out into the river, but the dock appears outside of it to me. The dock also seems excessively large and I guess the county does have maximum size limits...I am still pursuing this issue but I know for a fact it will be gone with 5 years....nature seems to handle things like this with time.......hey hookem, was that you fishing off the bank a week ago?...asked me how deep the water was where is was trolling? maybe your neighbor...I pretty much live in this hole

[Miss B Haven]

Army Corps of Engineers controls where docks, etc can be placed on navigable waters I believe. If you think the guy is in violation check with them.

[Abalone]

Hookem: You don't know who I am do you ? Does Tony & Elaine ring a bell ?
I am the Duds Plug. I used to live there at Roethe. Do you live in Duane Bocks old house ?

I used to cross Duanes yard to get to my boat. I have hooked several Springers exactly where the
dock is located. Those fish will surprise you sometimes where they lay.

Roethe is my favorite hole. But don't tell anyone. Too bad that person couldn't move the dock to the
inside of the piling until after the Season is over. I thought last night maybe I could offer him a fishing trip and show him the joys of fishing for salmon. Maybe talk some reason into him. But I got a good look at him last year while he was sunning himself and he just didn't seem the type. I will definately express my view to him when I see him again. I will be tactful. Who knows ?

In really high water that Dock will have a problem. Mike and Judy had a dock there and there have been others, all washed away. Look at the dock the next one down river. It holds a lot of snags etc.

Next time you see me out there wave.

Have you seen any fish caught there this year yet ?

Dudley just told me he caught one Salmon and one Steelhead this morning down below.

He says that Oregon State land oversees the building of Docks. They are only concerned about boat traffic. As far as that dock is concerned there is nothing anyone can do. The State don't care
about fishing.

Also: The Speed bouys have been moved right in the middle of the Grannies hole at Hog Island.
Right in the middle where we fish.

But they will be moved one way or the other.

[ 02-16-2004, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Abalone ]

[hookem]

hay guys.........good to meet you.. I look out the window all day long with the binoculars or my spoting scope and zoom in on you! I live in the little house just up the hill from the creek. from the river you can only see my back porch and the back of the house. That wasn't me fishin from the bank the other day. I have not seen a fish this cought yet this year.......any day now!!
I love Saturday, mostly I don't fish Sat. just watch.....One day a couple of years ago I saw one of the bass fisherman hook up with a springer! what a battle! it lasted forever, but he got it
that water in there will surprise you what you will find [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[Abalone]

Update:
I have done some checking and it appears this man did not get a permit for his dock.
State land use rules that waterway and Docks are allowed without consideration to fishing.
Hmmm ! Maybe this needs to be changed.
The local Juristicion, Clackamas County in this case, determines the permits. Clackamas county
limits the size of a Dock to 400 Sq. Ft. and they do not have record or permit for this Dock either.

Sounds like a violation to me.

But even if they force him to take out a permit he will be able to keep the Dock but He may have to reduce it's size.. I don't think that will be any help. That will still mess up Roethe.

Dang !

I am working it.

I respect property owners right to have a Dock I just wish they would respect our right to fish.
The lady at the State that is in charge of this told me that it will get a lot worse. Expect many more Docks in the future. Sportsfisherman need a Voice on this.

What do ya think ?

http://statelands.dsl.state.or.us/dockregis.htm

[ 02-18-2004, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Abalone ]

[bassin]

Where is this dock at. Any Land marks?

[Abalone]

I don't know if I want to tell you Bassin. The dock will no doubt make a good bass fishing spot and you may not be on my side. Hell is already is a good Bass spot. Last year I seen a bass fisherman
hook a Springer there. So I went over an tossed a Blue Fox and hook a big Small Mouth..

Straight acrossed from Robinwood boat ramp. I little down river next to Crawdad Creek.

[Jimmy Carl Black]

Too bad that person couldn't move the dock to the
inside of the piling until after the Season is over.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Hey, maybe one of the more entrepreneurial and mechanically minded ifishers could start designing /servicing docks like this and people could move their docks out during the meat of the run.

[Sharted]

Tony,

With your way with words you might talk to the landowner and explain our dilema. That is one of my favorite places to fish many good days there. Be the leader and make something happen, I look forward to updates on this issue. By the way talked to your cousin this evening he mentioned something about a horse.

SMILES
Doug

[Abalone]

Actually I have been thinking of Something along those lines. I went down there last night to check out his place and maybe talk to him. He is a big Boy. I don't he was the same guy I say last year.
A construction worker pointed him out but he was lifting a 150 lb beam up and I didn't want to bother him. His name is Steber. He has a boat that looks like it would be a great Anchor setup.
I mean anchor fishing not an anchor., ( Don't give anyone any ideas ) Maybe one afternoon I can
go down there and chew that fat and ask him to temporarily move the dock to the other side of the
pilings. ( Please )

Yep Doug ! That was right there where you set your rod down to get a cup of coffee when I told you not to and you lost that fish. But fortunatly for me it when it broke off and ran into my line.

Well you know the rest of the Story.

What horse ?

[tangled]

TO answer a few questions that have been raised here (I am a lawyer and have dealt with these before) - A permit to build a dock is issued by the local jursidiction (county or city) the adjacent home is in. Each jurisdiction has their own criteria, size, length limitations, but they all must comply with the State's Willamette River Greenway Program and regulations. In addition, one needs to obtain Army Corps and NOAA approval. The impact of docks on endangered species is a hot topic for the agencies. In general, if there is more than a negligible likelihood of a “take”, a biological opinion is needed. Basically the Corps consults with NOAA and NOAA says yes or no. The agencis offer a fast track approach, called a programtic program, if you can meet certain criteria. This is most often used for docks. They are trying to acheive a balance between species protection and interferring with navigability. One criteria is a dock needs to be in 20 feet of water to avoid grounding and avoid providing shallow water cover for predator species of fish. This puts the docks further and further out into the river. You also need the consent in the form of a floatation certificate of the State Marine Board and the permission of the State Division of Lands to lease the waterway area from the state. All the agencies review plans and want before and after pictures. I hope that helps. If a new dock concerns you just follow up with all the agencies and local government. Its illegal to construct a dock without the necessary approvals and permits.

[Abalone]

tangled:
I have contacted the State and the county. I have the owners name and address. He definatly does not have the permit by the county or by the State. His dock is planted in about Six feet of water and is over the 400 Sq. Ft. limit set by Clackamas County. The State told me that about all they can do is require him to pay the permit fee. If there is any way I can move to get this dock removed I would. I have also been told that he could be sued for building that dock. I have received some emails on this and several people are upset about this. Any advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Send me a PM. if you think you can help.

This is a prime fishing spot. I cought my biggest Springer right where the dock is located. I have seen many other fish caught there.

[Abalone]

I have it on good information that no permits have been issued for two years on the East Bank of the Willie all the way to Portland in the last year. I wonder how many Docks are in Violation ?
That is from the Clackamas County agent that issues the permits.

Actually besides this one, The Garbage hole and Hog Island the other docks aren't a problem.
The one above the Narrows is right over the top of a good hole but is has been there Twenty or more years. It does a good job of Collecting drift wood and creating Huge log jams.

[Beach Caster]

I issue shoreline management substantial development permits for piers in a Washington County Office.

If you are unhappy with the dock and you believe it was never permitted, the first step is to open up a code enforcement complaint with the local agency whether it being a city or in this case Calackmas County. Typically from this point a code enforcement officer will visit this site and issue a "notice of order" on the owner and instruct him to apply for the proper permits to bring the structure in compliance. Hopefully if the code enfocement officer has some backbone he/she will "red tag" the structure forbidding the usage of the dock. The owner then applies for the proper local and Federal permits which sometimes can take years and cost thousands of dollars. The bad news is that the dock may just sit there for years until a compromise or resolve to the issue is reached to minimize its size or remove it completely. Hopefully Clack. Co. has a quick legal means of yanking the structure immediately, and then require the owner to get the proper permits if he wants to re-construct the pier.

Hope this helps,

BC

[Abalone]

Wow you guys are great ! A complaint has been issued.

Indeed there is no permit for this Dock and it is in Code Violation.

I wonder about the Dock they put in at the Garbage hole ?
All you need is the Address of the Residence and Clackamas County will have records.
The person I talked to said that there is a good chance they will make the remove the Dock.

She told me also to Call the Army Corp. They have to do the study before a Dock Permit can be issued.

My fingers are crossed.

[Sharted]

Thanks for the email! But fishing is more my idea of fun!

[Abalone]

Bad News

Abalone:
I completed research on your question regarding the dock on the Willamette River near Walta Vista Drive. The individuals who own the dock have received proper authorization from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Clackamas County, Department of State Lands (DSL) Regulatory side and have applied for a registration from the proprietary side of DSL. The registration will be issued upon receipt of photographs of the dock structure.

Although I understand the frustration over losing a prime fishing location, the parties properly applied for and obtained all necessary approvals for the dock structure.

As a matter of information, the dock structure is, of course, private property and, therefore, cannot be used by the public. The water area around the dock is public property and you may continue to fish at that location as long as you do not trespass upon the private dock structure or walkway. You are not allowed to block the dock owners public trust right to access the public waterway, nor is he allowed to block your public trust right to use the open (unoccupied by a legally authorized structure) waterway.

I hope that you can continue to successfully fish the open water areas at this location. If you have any questions, please call me at (503) 378-3805, extension 272 or email me at tami.hubert@dsl.state.or.us.

Tami Hubert
Property Manager
Willamette Metropolitan Region

[garyk]

I was just about to post a comment about the lack of DSL permits...but it appears such a permit was indeed obtained.

But that raises the question of DSL’s process? I wonder who receives notice when somebody applies for riverbottom construction such as this, on a navigable river?

Almost seems like one of the river/fish-recreation organizations needs to monitor DSL's permitting process so that we don’t end up with all the public’s riverbottom developed for private usage. Time for a “1000 Friends of Oregon’s Rivers”?

Key point here is that these riverbottoms belong to the public. Any leasing by DSL should ensure that the public's usage is not adversely impacted. It appears this is not being fully considered, and the public becomes aware of the development only after the damage is done, and remedies become very difficult for both sides.

[Abalone]

What gets me is that Clackamas County wasn't cut in on the deal. I called all these agencies and they told me there is no record of a permit. One Clackamas county employee told me there were no permits issued in the last year. How would anyone monitor what was going on ?

Like I said before it isn't the end of the world and honestly we can still fish the hole. It's kind of a sneaker hole anyway. It's amazing how shallow Salmon hide sometimes. I will try the other approach and ask him to consider moving the Dock to the other side of the Pilings until the Season is over. But like someone said. Lotsaluck.

Here is my reply to the State:

Tami:
Although the outcome is not what I wished for I want to thank you for taking the time the investigate. Many people are disappointed about this dock. It's unfortunate that the laws aren't written to protect the general interests of the public and that one person is able to deny access to what has been a traditionally good fishing hole. The Trolling areas in this stretch Of the Willamette river continue to be under more pressure and continue to be encroached upon by developers. It's just another aspect of Oregon and the quality of living being diminished. I believe a solution could have been implemented to accomidate both the owners and the public but appearantly public use was not a consideration in this case as it often is not

Thank you


End of Story ? Maybe not. I talked to someone that plans to circulate a petition. A petition for what I am not sure but this person was the driving force behind closing the Gravel pit on the Clackamas above Barton Park.

[ 02-23-2004, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: Abalone ]

[Blue Tip Spinner]

what about the dock in the garbage hole? i took a look at the pilings, and they are right in the spot that we fished. any ideas?

[garyk]

Abalone, regarding curbing development:

About 10 or so years ago, during what was a revision or finalization of the land-use plan covering the Multnomah Channel, there was a proposal from developers to fully develop the Channel with houseboats.

This would have resulted in a continuous line of houseboats on both banks of the Channel - perhaps even double rows. In response, residents of both Columbia and Multnomah counties objected. An argument was made to the Div. of State Lands to remove those undeveloped portions of the Channel from further consideration for leasing.

I’m not sure DSL did this, but at least the county planners heeded the citizen input and limited development on the Channel to the existing moorages.

You hear a lot of cynics say public input doesn’t matter. That you can fish and enjoy the Channel today without having houseboats on both sides proves them wrong.

Maybe your friend's petition needs to be to DSL to curb leasing and over-water construction?

[Wood N' Fish]

ttt

[Abalone]

The owner of this dock is a builder. He no doubt knows the system and knows how it works. My feeling is that he took the direction that would get the least attention and therefore no opposition
to building his dock. Why do I say this ?

Someone recently told me about another person that bought property in the area with the intention of building a private dock. He failed because fisherman became aware of it and were able to protest the construction. Eventually the owner got fed up and sold the property. This guy owns
Roakes Hot dogs. So perhaps we need a watch dog group to review the planning process on the river.

How do we do that ? While I was on the river this weekend I imagined all the good trolling spots on the river and what the possibility would be for putting Docks there ? Potentially we could lose a lot of good fishing if property owners continue to build. Some of these spots already have docks but they are really small. If that person decided to expand them it would ruin the hole.

I am still wondering about the 400 sq. Ft . limit ? The Dock at Roethe appears to be larger then that. Not that it matters. 50 sq feet would be too much in this case.

[ 02-23-2004, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Abalone ]