Support Needed for Regulation Change 369P - Year Around Recreational Ocean Crabbing

[garyk]

In a year of closures and reductions here’s actually a chance to increase our ocean opportunity with more crabbing by disconnecting the sport season from the commercial season.

This proposal made it through the initial review committee. Now ODFW is taking testimony at the meetings below. You can also email or mail your comments to: . Letters should be addressed to: ODFW, Angling Regulations, 3406 Cherry Avenue NE, Salem, OR 97303

or can be emailed to the Recreational Fisheries Program Manager/Angling Regulations Coordinator at: rhine.t.messmer@state.or.us All emails will be forwarded to the Commission as part of the public record

Here’s the key coastal meetings which will consider this and other Marine Zone proposals (the complete packet of proposals in on ODFW’s website):

May 22 ,Newport , 7pm
Hatfield Marine Science Center ,2030 SE Marine Science Dr.
Newport, OR 97141 , proposals: Northwest; Marine; & Statewide

May 23 Tillamook , 7pm
Oregon Dept. of Forestry
5005 Third Street
Tillamook, OR 97141 proposals: Northwest; Marine; & Statewide


Here’s the proposal as it appears in the ODFW packet:

Proposal 369P - Year Around Recreational Ocean Crabbing
Increased Opportunity Page 100 Pacific Ocean

• Existing Rule: Ocean is closed to sport harvest of Dungeness crab Aug. 15 to Nov. 30.

• Proposed Rule: Allow sport crabbing in the Ocean year round.

Rationale: Enhance angler access to a very abundant resource, particularly during the August through October period when ocean conditions are favorable to small sport boats. Reduces crowding and conflicts in the popular bay/estuary crabbing areas .



IF you like the idea of crabbing in late summer and in the early salmon season (if we don’t have ocean closures) AND getting a little more value from your Shellfish License here’s your chance! Let Rhine Messmer know you support year around recreational ocean crabbing: rhine.t.messmer@state.or.us

[KeyWest]

If you support having the ocean open year around for crabbing, make sure you support having the ocean open for "extracive" purposes within 3 miles. You may have a crabbing season year around in the ocean, but no place to crab.

[earlybird007]

Not a good idea when the crab are molting to be harvesting them.......the shells are very thin and crab dont have much meat in them at that time.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by earlybird007

Not a good idea when the crab are molting to be harvesting them.......the shells are very thin and crab dont have much meat in them at that time.

No softies for me...but there's plenty of big filled-out hardshells at that time too. Just like the ones you catch in the bays year around...where did they come from - OCEAN

[Nalu]

Is there a problem with giving the ocean a break for a short window?

I find it highly ironic Gary that you so doggedly pursue any opportunity you can for increasing recreational harvest, yet at the same time you consistently badmouth the ODF&W for not ever doing what is good for sportsmen.

My personal opinion is that we have access to the ocean 81/2 months a year to crab, and typically when the crab are at their best. A little pressure off the crab leading up to the start of the next season seems to make sense, and really doesn't hurt anyone.

Conservative closure of the ocean to crabbing for both sport and commercial is a prime example of how sportsmen are conservation minded and can be self limiting.

The more for me mentality is what will lead to marine reserves. I get real tired of the "all about me" attitudes.

[Danno]

I'd be more in favor of the all-year crabbing if they drop the limits by 50%. Having a boat with 4 people load up on 48 crab is overkill. How many can you eat while they're still fresh?

[Salty Walty]

Originally Posted by Nalu

Is there a problem with giving the ocean a break for a short window?

I find it highly ironic Gary that you so doggedly pursue any opportunity you can for increasing recreational harvest, yet at the same time you consistently badmouth the ODF&W for not ever doing what is good for sportsmen.

My personal opinion is that we have access to the ocean 81/2 months a year to crab, and typically when the crab are at their best. A little pressure off the crab leading up to the start of the next season seems to make sense, and really doesn't hurt anyone.

Conservative closure of the ocean to crabbing for both sport and commercial is a prime example of how sportsmen are conservation minded and can be self limiting.

The more for me mentality is what will lead to marine reserves. I get real tired of the "all about me" attitudes.

Closed to all for a few months is fine with me. The closure is when they are molting and vulnerable to damage. The Bays usually start to pick up by then.

[wak'm&stak'm]

I vote for a year openner.

Walts right the bays start picking up the end of August and these are nice hard crabs crawling from the ocean.

If you recall a couples years back there were thousand and thousands of crabs pushed into the bays and they molted early(mid July). The bay crabbers packed the soft crabs of by the coolers full.

I would like to keep the pots in a couple of more weeks.....and I doubt the take from all of us sportsman isn't enough to even mention.

I think we have taken about 30 this whole spring, arg!

I would also like to legalize multiple rods, end the 40 fathom restriction, free gas and bait, gee hmmmmm..... what else?

[Sea Jypzee]

Actually it is kind of nice to not have to be dodging crab pot buoy's all over the place in the late TUNA season.

I have no problem giving the crabs a break for a few months while they molt.

[freespool]

I'm all for a year round recreational ocean crabbing season.
I'd also like to see commercial crabbing in the bays and estuaries terminated.

[roadsend]

Originally Posted by Danno

I'd be more in favor of the all-year crabbing if they drop the limits by 50%. Having a boat with 4 people load up on 48 crab is overkill. How many can you eat while they're still fresh?

If there were a conservation reason to reduce limits, I might agree with you. With a twelve limit enough are available to feed a family for two meals.

[roadsend]

Originally Posted by freespool

I'm all for a year round recreational ocean crabbing season.
I'd also like to see commercial crabbing in the bays and estuaries terminated.

I agree with you completely on this issue. The commercials have the whole ocean. Commercial and sport crabbing are incompatable in limited estuary waters for a variety of reasons. The opening of the commercial season for all practical reasons precludes furthur sport crabbing.
Anyone know what percentage of the total crab harvest is taken by the sportees?

[freespool]

Originally Posted by roadsend

I agree with you completely on this issue. The commercials have the whole ocean. Commercial and sport crabbing are incompatable in limited estuary waters for a variety of reasons. The opening of the commercial season for all practical reasons precludes furthur sport crabbing.
Anyone know what percentage of the total crab harvest is taken by the sportees?

Given the shear volume of the commercial harvest totals, I'd guess the sports don't get much over 1%. Yet their fishery has a very big impact on the local economies of the Oregon coast communities.
If removing commercials from the bays and estuaries can in fact increase sport crabbing opportunities, then I think it makes economic sense to do it.
It could also increase tag sales for ODFW.
Another issue here is what percentage of ODFW's operating budget comes from commercial fishing? Answer 1%, where as sportsmen chip in 26%, perhaps throwing a bone to the sports might be in order?

[roadsend]

Originally Posted by freespool

Given the shear volume of the commercial harvest totals, I'd guess the sports don't get much over 1%. Yet their fishery has a very big impact on the local economies of the Oregon coast communities.
If removing commercials from the bays and estuaries can in fact increase sport crabbing opportunities, then I think it makes economic sense to do it.
It could also increase tag sales for ODFW.
Another issue here is what percentage of ODFW's operating budget comes from commercial fishing? Answer 1%, where as sportsmen chip in 26%, perhaps throwing a bone to the sports might be in order?

I can't imagine limiting bays and estuaries to sportees as having much of an effect on the commercials. Seems like a no-brainer.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Salty Walty

Closed to all for a few months is fine with me. The closure is when they are molting and vulnerable to damage. The Bays usually start to pick up by then.

The sole reason for Oregon’s recreational ocean crabbing season closure of Aug 15 is – it matches the commercial season. It appears to stem from a time when recreational boats were smaller and fewer ventured into the ocean. There’s no compelling conservation reason. It’s just the way it’s always been.

If you look at it that way, it’s equally reasonable to have the recreational crabbing season match the bay crabbing season - year around.

The rationale of an “8.5 month being enough” ignores the fact that most small boats can’t get out of the bays from December thru March. I’d gladly trade off the months when the ocean is so rough that only the big commercial ships can get out for a shorter season of May-October. The months with the safest ocean conditions are now closed to us.

However, this ‘year around’ proposal is simpler, matches the current bay season and thus better meets ODFW’s criteria for new regulations.

In a year that will be very tough economically on our coastal communities, this modest proposal will provide a little benefit to all the businesses that benefit from recreational crabbing.

[Nalu]

I'm with Nancy... how nice is it not to have to dodge pots at the end of the season when the crab are typically poor quality anyhow?

To think that ocean sport crabbing is going to have any sort of significant economic impact on the coastal community is reaching at best. This is coming from the same person that said the possible economic impact of Marine Reserves on bottom fishing is probably limited since the reduction in bag limits was already reduced.

If it changes, fine. I can't say that it shouldn't change, only that in the current political state we are in on the ocean, the timing is not right. This is an OCEAN CLOSURE that is accepted as part of our stewardship of the ocean. Why not just let it be?

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Nalu

...To think that ocean sport crabbing is going to have any sort of significant economic impact on the coastal community is reaching at best. This is coming from the same person that said the possible economic impact of Marine Reserves on bottom fishing is probably limited since the reduction in bag limits was already reduced.

Thanks for the bump up, Nalu.

Funny how you didn't refer to the rest of that post where, after the comment about reduced fishing due to slashed limits, I wrote --

That said, I don't want to see ANY reduction in fishing opportunity. I don't want to see ONE LESS job due to marine reserves. I don't want to argue about how much LESS HARVEST there should be.

My viewpoint is I wish I could turn this stupid argument on its head, bury it, and instead have folks advocating for INCREASED FISHING OPPORTUNITY with increased bag limits as a result of having the BEST groundfishing on the West Coast and then working on the strategies needed to make that happen. Now THAT, would create something I think we could all be proud of.

That's what year-around recreational crabbing is about, increased opportunity with the tiniest of conservation costs. If it were anything otherwise, I wouldn't be banging the drum for it.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by garyk

My viewpoint is I wish I could turn this stupid argument on its head, bury it, and instead have folks advocating for INCREASED FISHING OPPORTUNITY with increased bag limits as a result of having the BEST groundfishing on the West Coast and then working on the strategies needed to make that happen. Now THAT, would create something I think we could all be proud of.

Gary- Until you understand the fact that bag limits were reduced to meet what has been identified as sustainable harvest of the biomass your rhetoric continues to make no sense.

What makes you think we DON'T have the best groundfishing on the west coast? I know for a fact that most people can launch and feel confident that they can catch limits of rockfish and lingcod. They can easily catch and release black rockfish nearshore on light tackle and have a ball day in and day out. Increasing bag limits does not correlate to having a "good" or "great" fishery. Bag limits correlate to how much total fishing pressure there is over a given period of time. Shorter time, higher bag limits. longer time, smaller bag limits. Reduction in ocean salmon fishing has increased pressure on rockfish. This year there will again be an increase in pressure south of Falcon due to reduced salmon opportunity.

In addition, increasing opportunity by increasing bag limits of rockfish doesn't make sense to me anyhow. A person going home with a limit of rockfish and a limit of lingcod has a nice bag of fish- well worth what they paid for the trip. Solely justifying the trip based on quantity of fish caught is outdated. That mentality is certainly not the conservation sports minded way.

We all wish to retain fish. A couple trips and I have all the rockfish I need for the year. One or two more and I have tons to give away.

These posts are getting tired. Balance and give and take with regard to all user groups is what should be strived for. Being able to point out self limitations as examples of how we are good stewards of our fisheries should be strived for.

I'll say it again. We're in a big fight right now to retain our access rights to fishing grounds off our coast. In the big picture, anything that helps solidify the fact that we care more for the resource than what we get from it should be held up as an example. I know this is big picture, but that's what needs to be looked at right now, the big picture. This isn't the time.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Nalu

Gary- Until you understand the fact that bag limits were reduced to meet what has been identified as sustainable harvest of the biomass your rhetoric continues to make no sense. ...

Nalu, you don't seem to understand that what I wrote there was a 'forward looking' statement. It wasn't advocating increased rockfish limits now . That full statement was a hopeful wish for getting back to where we used to be.

It's also completely off the topic of the year around recreational crabbing proposal.

I'm sorry that wasn't clearer to you. You sure spent some time trying to rebut an argument that wasn't even made (at least by me).

Thanks again for the bump!

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by garyk

Nalu, you don't seem to understand that what I wrote there was a 'forward looking' statement. It wasn't advocating increased rockfish limits now . That full statement was a hopeful wish for getting back to where we used to be.

It's also completely off the topic of the year around recreational crabbing proposal.

I'm sorry that wasn't clearer to you. You sure spent some time trying to rebut an argument that wasn't even made (at least by me).

Thanks again for the bump!

Gary- the fact of "getting where we used to be" is exactly the point with regard to bottomfish. We will never get there, nor should we. The arbitrary limits that were established such as 25 per person were set without knowledge or understanding of sustainability of the resource. The new limits reflect what is sustainable and in fact able to help grow the available biomass at healthy levels.

As to the link with the year round crabbing season, it is this.... We have a set standard in place that provides sustainable yield of crab that is of high quality and appropriate amounts. While it may be entirely true that the impact of a year round sport harvest in the ocean would be miniscule and barely noticeable to the overall health of the crab population (I would completely accept this as truth) you are completely missing the point about being good stewards and accepting some portion of restraint among sportsmen.

As for your "thanks for the bump" little snip.... I certainly have no problem letting people read and decide for themselves what they feel is in the best interest of ocean users. I am simply trying to be a reasonable advocate for looking at the big picture, and what ultimately is best for the resource first, and the user groups second.

The fact remains that both the crabbing and the crab themselves during the time frame mentioned is poor at best. To restrain ourselves from having to crab during this time regardless of impact is simply sets ourselves up as good stewards and responsible sportsmen. Conservation minded, or greedy, it's your call.

[Salty Walty]

I think we hashed it out pretty good here. Some good reads by Clam man and Sparkleboy on the issue;
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=174442

There is no "Special" commercial ocean season. There is an Ocean Crab Season open from Dec. 1 - Aug. 14 and it is open to ALL. The crab are most vulnerable at this time of year AUG-NOV due to molting. It seems wise to me to leave them alone in the ocean and let the guys in the bay take their limits of soft shells and leave the majority in the Ocean alone. Handling causes mortality? This seems to be a common theme in other fisheries too. My ocean crab gear is not that much different from the commercial gear and my handling of crab in their soft shell stage causes as much damage as the commercials. Unless there has been a remarkable break through in how I handle crab versus the commercials we are handling these creatures at the time when they need it least. Let's not confuse a legitimate desire to access the resource with a feeling of entitlement and let this rest.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Nalu

Conservation minded, or greedy, it's your call.

So now your personal opposition comes to setting up a false choice?

I'll call it what it truly is -- like most fisheries management decisions, it's a shade of 'gray' in the middle. Allowing access to an abundant resource during times of safe conditions. It's not black/white or either/or ... few issues are.

Originally Posted by Salty Walty

ILet's not confuse a legitimate desire to access the resource with a feeling of entitlement and let this rest.

"Feeling of entitlement -- huh?" Seriously?

"...let the guys in the bay take their limits of soft shells" That's unbelievable. You really think these bay crabbers are loading up on softies? At least in Netarts and Tillamook that doesn't pass the laugh test.


SaltyWalty, I am surprised and disapointed; you mis-portray the issue, along with my personal beliefs and then call for -- 'let it rest'.

[earlybird007]

Take a poll and I'll bet the majority will say...."Let it rest"

[OreCoastDiver]

The primary reason the ocean is closed Aug. 15 to Nov. 30 to crabbing (commercial and sport) is BIOLOGICAL. Not only are the males in a soft-shelled condition and subject to handling mortality, but -- and this may be more important -- the females are berried up. They and the thousands of eggs they are holding are very subject to dammage and mortality at that point in their life cycle.

The reason ODFW allows crabbing in the bays during the time it is closed in the ocean is because generally molting and soft-shelld crab head to deeper water, as do the berried-up females.

[wak'm&stak'm]

We were leaving pots out way past commercial closer 15 to 25 years ago, and no one cared and it was not enforced.
Then one day I was coming back from the pile with a boat load of yelloweyes and picked up my pots.
I got checked when I was putting they in my live box and I had to set them free.........this was the end of August and we caught hard hard crabs.... the molt thing is a big window.

Also I don't agree with crab floats being that big of a pain. If someone is able to get out and harvest something and have a good day, I sure as hell can steer around their crab float. Granted they should not be left in the channel anyway.

.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by OreCoastDiver

T
The reason ODFW allows crabbing in the bays during the time it is closed in the ocean is because generally molting and soft-shelld crab head to deeper water, as do the berried-up females.

That reminds me... it was two regulation go-arounds ago (maybe it was three?) that it was actually ODFW proposing to allow the keeping of female Dungeness! They said it wasn't a biological issue.

Compared to that, this is a pretty modest proposal.

Wakem&Stackem, I agree the molt window is far larger than the current Aug15-Dec closure.

And if it's true the newly molted and berried-up females head to deeper water, then there will be minimal impact from nearshore crabbers who usually set pots in less than 50' of depth (more like 30').