Lab Health Question

fishingbouchman · 05-13-2008, 03:58 PM

Have a 5-year-old black lab. Have taken her into a couple different vets and they cannot find anything wrong with her. But after a good run she can barely get herself up from lying on the ground. Like her back legs can�t push her up. Her back legs even gave out on her one time while walking up the stairs. After a day or two of rest she is fine again. I don�t think it is a conditioning thing as I was running her for 10-15 minutes every day.

Yesterday, out of now where, she started whimpering and I have not taken her for a run in a couple days. This seems more like a pinched nerve.

Hoping some of you guys or gals have some ideas on what might be causing this.

jnicholson · 05-13-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishingbouchman

Have a 5-year-old black lab. Have taken her into a couple different vets and they cannot find anything wrong with her. But after a good run she can barely get herself up from lying on the ground. Like her back legs can�t push her up. Her back legs even gave out on her one time while walking up the stairs. After a day or two of rest she is fine again. I don�t think it is a conditioning thing as I was running her for 10-15 minutes every day.

Yesterday, out of now where, she started whimpering and I have not taken her for a run in a couple days. This seems more like a pinched nerve.

Hoping some of you guys or gals have some ideas on what might be causing this.

Find another vet, keep asking questions, you're doing the right thing.

Got One! · 05-13-2008, 04:08 PM

and after a run give her a light massage and see if she flinches anywhere.

blackdog · 05-13-2008, 04:10 PM

Go over to http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/forumdisplay.php?f=9 and do a search on EIC. You should get plenty of feedback on similar conditions in other dogs. I'm not real familiar with it but this should give you some more info.

Duckwheat · 05-13-2008, 05:57 PM

Could be ACL's in the knees. Sounds like my dog MO and her Knees.

DW

Hawaiian Time · 05-13-2008, 06:04 PM

Dragging the hind legs after a run may be EIC (exercise induce collapse) although the dog usually recovers after maybe 1/2 hour. If the dog loses function of its hind legs for a couple of days I would say it is not EIC. With EIC the dog appears overheated (panting) and the symtoms are usually triggered by what excites the dogs. In sever cases it can be brought on by the anticipation of a task such as retrieving. Dogs have shown symtoms just by waiting in holding blinds for their turn at a test. They have recently come up with a DNA test (not available to public but soon will be) that can detect if the dog is affected or a carrier of the recessive EIC gene. HT

PullShootExplode · 05-13-2008, 06:41 PM

you may also try feeding bananas I had a similar problem after hunts were the lab did alot of chukar hunting. This really seemed to help. I also would look into the massage.

Tilla · 05-13-2008, 09:57 PM

HT has the idea, this is really not uncommon.

EP1627 · 05-14-2008, 08:17 AM

I have this problem with My lab as well. She is now just over 4 years old and though I have not had her tested, I have done all the standard health screens and taken her to multiple vets. All have basically stated the same thing in that what you are describing and what my Lab goes through appear to be consistent with EIC. Though she has never had an episode that lasted more than 2 hours, her energy level is signifacantly effected for the next 48 hours. If you would like more information regarding what I have experienced I be more than willing to give you the information I have found on the subject. If you truely believe you may have an EIC lab, look into a Vet at the University of Minnesota, Susan Taylor DVM, she is the most upto date expert in the area of EIC, I came across.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to really find anything that can be done for this condition, so if you come across something new, please let me know

Hope this helps!

Hawaiian Time · 05-14-2008, 09:27 AM

Fortunately, many EIC affected trial dogs become good hunting dogs as the trigger mechanism for an episode never reaches the excitement level during hunting. Different dogs are affected at different levels. Some are mildly affected and takes more to trigger an episode while others it doesn't take much. They have no cure for it and the testing is to ensure that you have the ability to not breed two carriers to create affected puppies.

On other possibilities, I have a training partner who's dog pulls up lame after some training sessions. The dogs been to a canine chiropractor and that seemed to help but it could be caused by the physical dimentions of the dog. He's tall, longlegged, powerfully built and is full throttle all the time. He puts a lot of stress on his joints and muscles. You might consider this angle to solve the problem is your vet has no answers for you. And by the way, my friends dog has been retired from competition because of this ongoing problem. HT

007SPRIG · 05-14-2008, 06:23 PM

I grew up with a lab which had hip displacia (sp). She never had any problems hunting on marsh ground. It only occured if we took her pheasant hunting on hard or plowed ground. It was very sad to see her dragging herself on her front legs. Has your dog's hips been x-rayed? I highly recommend Dr. Peter Davis of the St John's Vet Clinic in North Portland. He has been my vet for 31 years. He is also a hunter.

twisterme · 05-14-2008, 07:29 PM

There is a regional breeder that has had some genetic problems with EIC - PM me, there may be a clue in the genetics

cwh · 05-15-2008, 01:31 PM

Wow.. this thread has been an eye opener. I'm 99% confident that my Lab Zach has EIC.

Old Guys Rule · 05-15-2008, 04:05 PM

HT nailed it on the EIT possibility but your dog should recover fairly quickly from that. Basically it is an overheating that poisons muscle cells, he will start off with what I call the "drunk walk" starts dragging feet, then gets wobbly legs, finally staggers and collapse. Shade, rest, water, he should recover in 15 to 30 minutes. You can prevent some of this with conditioning but it is mailnly the dog's makeup of body type, coat, and fat content that sets the level of activity sustainable until EIT sets in.

I bought a "Kool Kollar" at the Sportsman's Show this year, regular or blue ice fits in a collar, as it melts it cools your dogs neck where lots of blood circulates and it sweats or melts water on his neck so evaporation cools also. Now that the hot weather is starting I will see how well it works.

If your dog takes days to recover, it does not sound like EIT - here are two possibilities, I have seen both affect dogs. One is the pinched nerve, I knew a dog ten years ago who had real back problems, they found a vet who kept the dog for a few months and did a lot of osteopath massages. Made a huge difference. The other ossibility is joint pain due to displaycia (sp) or arthritis. Not much to do but medicate. We used to use asprin but the new drugs like Rymadel can give an old dog new life. Might try the drugs for a while and see if it helps.

Just a couple of ideas.....

nehalemguy · 05-15-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwh

Wow.. this thread has been an eye opener. I'm 99% confident that my Lab Zach has EIC.

Does this also explain why I can't get up after a hard run? Saying to my sons "I suffer from EIC" sounds much better than "Go on ahead, I'll catch up."

E

fishingbouchman · 05-19-2008, 09:53 AM

Thanks to everyone for you help/input. Sorry I have not responded but I actually had to do work while I was at work this week and didn't have time to get back to the computer.
From what you have explained about EIC it doesn�t sound like what she has. Almost sounds like two different things going on with her. We have been giving her a very small dosage of a steroid that does seem to help. Do not remember the name though.
Original � Noticed after I started taking her Pheasant hunting. She would run around for 1-2 hours and not show any signs of being sore. Only after a couple hours of not doing anything (sleeping) when she tried to get up it was like her hind legs were really sore. Like the way I felt after football practice the first two weeks. Once she got up she seemed fine and would even run around. Only a couple times walking up the stairs her legs kind of gave out and she sat down. She would be sore for about a day maybe a day and a half then she was back to her old crazy wild self. This is when we took her to the a couple different vets and they could not find anything. Hips look good; joints are good, and blood tests where good. They gave her some steroids and that has seemed to help. Before this happened I was running her for 10-30 minutes at the school playing fetch and she never showed any symptoms of being sore. When it happens she does not show signs of being hot or panting.
Newer issue - The last one was after we went clam digging/fishing on the last dig in Longbeach. She ran up and down the beach for ~4 hours playing in the water. She was fine for about a day and didn�t show any issues of the weak hind end, but she would be walking and start to whimper. I tried to massage her to find out what/where was hurting but she never reacted to the massage. Lasted for about a day and now she is fine. She usually follows me everywhere but when I would go up stairs she would not follow me. Like she was scared to walk up them. Usually she runs up and down them as fast as she can.
Took her to the beach this weekend and she ran around for ~2 hours and didn�t see any signs of being sore.