I put this on the tech page but need HELP NOW

[fyshndad]

Hey guys
As I was getting the final things done on the boat I tried to start my O/B
It will not crank
It acts like a dead battery but I know the batts are OK
I even went and bought a brand new charger because I did not trust the old one
I removed, cleaned and put elect grease on all cable ends

What Am I missing here?
It ran perfect when I last used it

Thanks
Who ever figures this one out will be rewarded

[crazyinoregon]

no boat mechanic here by any means but with motors its either fuel, juice or mechanical. sounds like you checked the juice, how about the starter? if it sat awhile could be fuel moisture or filter issues. i always try to start out with fresh fuel and filters after the boat sits for awhile but more importantly i try not to let it sit for more than a week i have always heard that a good ground is key too. good luck

[Reef Diver]

Take a look at the main fuse under your motor cover.
I had one blow on my 115 Merc and never figured out why??
It ran great for years after never to blow again.
Good luck
RD

[fyshndad]

The starter does not seem to engage
I can not turn the key and see the starter at the same time
I did however check to see if the lil gear that engages the flywheel was able to move and it looked fine , I was able to move it with my fingers

This is absolutely not a Fuel issuse

It is Electrical

[bassin]

Hank Have you checked the other end of the cables? could be corosion there.
I would also check to see if you have a fuse in the ignition box. (Where the key is)

[Road Rage]

Do other electricals work? Power tilt, etc? Do you get a clicking sound at all when you turn the key?

I would double-check and clean all connections of the main power wires, at the battery and at the starter. Also check at the relays.

Try "jiggling" the shifter lever. Sometimes the switch that prevents starting in gear can fail.

[Tinman]

Check the main engine fuse. On mine it is a 20 amp automotive-type fuse in a holder under the cowling. If it is kaput, the engine won't start or do anything.

[goodkarma]

Like someone else eluded to, I'd check the shifter to make sure the neutral switch is working. Obviously, if the shifter is in gear, or thinks it is, it won't turn over.

[Spindrifter]

Looks like it may have been suggested already but....Check the ground that connects to the engine. These vibrate loose and will cause that problem, been there done that.

[fyshndad]

Thanks to all but I did everything that you all thought of
The fuse under the cowling is good
The shifter is in neutral
I do hear a tick when the key is turned
I did check all connections for corrosion
Tilt works
Horn works Lights work

Could not find a fuse in the key area

[fishbait]

Assume you can hear the starter relay "tic" but you do not hear the starter spin or engage the flywheel?

Do you have a meter? DVM

Have someone turn key and then you check for 12V at the *** terminal of starter. If 12v at starter then starter issue. If no 12 V at starter then check connections at starting relay.

Can you get 12V in to the relay? 12 V out?

Chances are the relay is modular and if so remove and replace it checking terminals for corrosion. Many times "system" problems are connections, especially in marine/outdoor environment.

I would start at the starter and work back towards the battery. Assuming you have a known good battery.

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by fishbait

Assume you can hear the starter relay "tic" but you do not hear the starter spin or engage the flywheel?

Do you have a meter? DVM

Have someone turn key and then you check for 12V at the *** terminal of starter. If 12v at starter then starter issue. If no 12 V at starter then check connections at starting relay.

Can you get 12V in to the relay? 12 V out?

Chances are the relay is modular and if so remove and replace it checking terminals for corrosion. Many times "system" problems are connections, especially in marine/outdoor environment.

I would start at the starter and work back towards the battery. Assuming you have a known good battery.

Steve
I did not check for voltage at the starter I do have a tester and
I have an ifisher on his way from Prineville that will be helping me figure this out

My biggest problem in trying to diagnose this issue was I can not be on the ground at the motor and in the boat at the key at the same time and the person that was supposed to help me never showed up nor did he call (so much for that guy being 1st mate) he flaked on me 3 times he is out
And of course my kid was not to be found anywhere

[Road Rage]

OK, to me it sounds like to starter has died. Try a couple of light taps on the starter with the handle end of a wrench. No a major "blow," just a 10 or 12 light taps on various parts of the starter body. Sometimes that's enough to free it up, and to tell you your starter is on it's last-leg.

Also your batter could be toast, and no longer contain the amperage to fire the starter. Just 'cause the battery is charged, doesn't mean it's good. Especially if it was dead for any period of time, or if was outside (in the boat) all winter.

You should be able to take both your battery and starter to an auto parts store and have them tested.

[little doc]

Can you hear a click when you turn the key? If so, the solenoid is getting electricity. If not, the solenoid is probably bad. follow the battery cables to a small round (1 1/2 inch) 1 1/2 inch high gadget with cables coming in and out of it. These can be picked up at any auto parts store for 10 bucks. Switch it out and you should be good to go. the same thing happened to me about 5 years ago.

Scott.

[KeyWest]

If you have a kill switch (lanyard), make sure it isn't holding you out. I've had this happen before - the plastic device has been bumped and is no longer holding the switch in.

[Road Rage]

Originally Posted by KeyWest

If you have a kill switch (lanyard), make sure it isn't holding you out. I've had this happen before - the plastic device has been bumped and is no longer holding the switch in.

Usually, the engine with still crank when the kill switch is is "OFF," but the motor won't fire.

[Chrome Bumper]

Engine ground wire did that to me once. I'd try connect jumpers right to the starter to see if that gets a different reaction.

[KeyWest]

Originally Posted by Road Rage

Usually, the engine with still crank when the kill switch is is "OFF," but the motor won't fire.

Of course - sorry!

[CATCH AND EAT]

Hank, make sure you spell starter correctly.

I kind of had this happen to me last year on my outboards. Loose ground cable at the engine block. I'd head a tic or click then nothing. If I had to guess I would say you have a bad battery cable or starter. It does not take much to make a starter go bad in salty conditions. The cable could be rotten inside the plastic housing and you would never see it.

What type of motor do you have Hank?

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Hank, make sure you spell starter correctly.

I kind of had this happen to me last year on my outboards. Loose ground cable at the engine block. I'd head a tic or click then nothing. If I had to guess I would say you have a bad battery cable or starter. It does not take much to make a starter go bad in salty conditions. The cable could be rotten inside the plastic housing and you would never see it.

What type of motor do you have Hank?

I have an 1989 90 HP Merc


I will try the jumper method When Greg gets here

(QUOTE)
Can you hear a click when you turn the key? If so, the solenoid is getting electricity. If not, the solenoid is probably bad. follow the battery cables to a small round (1 1/2 inch) 1 1/2 inch high gadget with cables coming in and out of it. These can be picked up at any auto parts store for 10 bucks. Switch it out and you should be good to go. the same thing happened to me about 5 years ago.

I did hear a click

Thanks guys
Got a few things to check thanks to you all

[Irish Pennant]

Hank, here's what a blacksmith would do.
Jump the starter at the starter, all you need is a screw driver and you can do it from the engine, if it cranks then replace the starter relay. If it doesnt crank then get a new starter.

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant

Hank, here's what a blacksmith would do.
Jump the starter at the starter, all you need is a screw driver and you can do it from the engine, if it cranks then replace the starter relay. If it doesnt crank then get a new starter.

Thanks Rick
I will go home at lunch time and give this a try

[34Baidarka]

Is there a Neutral switch relay thing...that you have to have it in Neutral?
It sounds something like that...
some safety thing...check

[Oregonelkkiller]

Look at the cables to see if they got pinched, or to see if they may have a slice in the sheath to allow for corrosion. Also look for a burnt spot some where in the line, which could be a big problem.

[Tip-Sea]

I agree that it sounds like a solenoid. I have seen any many occasions after sitting all winter one little tap with a hammer and they will work fine again for the rest of the year

[Herring Problem]

Hank, time for that new 4 stroke!

Hank ,had the same problem with a 115 hp . The mechanic I went to did the short across to check the starter. But ,he removed the cables from the starter wire post and cleaned them up. Seems the cable ends can get corrosion on the cable ends and on the post that will restrict the voltage going thru the system. This can cause the starter to click but does not have the right amps to turn it.
Worse case is you gonna buy a new starter, maybe.
good luck!

[RB fish]

Check your ignition switch , turn all the way to start and test terminal on starter relay if hot then take a 12 volt jumper to relay right to starterside of relay if no go 12 volts to you starter direct. Hope that helps.

[Reel Knotty]

Hank,

I had a similar problem with a 115 Merc. Turned out to be a bad ground. There was juice (batteries good), the selenoid would engage the starter (it would click, then 'whir' quietly), but since the ground was bad there wasn't enough juice to spin the starter fast enough to engage the flywheel (the gear is basically thrown up by centrifical force). I was pulling my hair out as I had done all that you outlined. In the end, it turned out I did not tighten the ground on the battery well enough after cleaning and coating with diaelectric and it came loose (I got rid of wingnuts and went to regular nuts after this). But it turned out to be a cheap fix .

So my advice is to check your cables again and make sure they are tight (if you get a click and quiet 'whir' of a spinning starter, but it won't engage the flywheel). Had I done that when I had this problem...

[lake creek charlie]

Pull the spark plugs and look for water!

[Livin the Dream]

Hank,
Where is your boat?
If you remember I live Milwaukie, have a digital volt meter and electrical experience, and can be your second set of eyes and ears.
Let us know about directly sparking the starter, that will answer a lot.

Gotta work late tonight but will be coming home around 8:00 and could swing by, or I can help tomorrow around 5:00.

Can't have you missing the Hali opener bro! Let me know if i can help....

AL

[dixiefisher]

Hank,
I hate to bring the fuse thing up again...but, on our motors ( 87 90hp)...there are two fuses under the cowling.....I forget what one is for...but, the other one does keep the motor from turning over when it blows.....

good luck

[Grizzly II]

Hank. I am going to Newport to put the new to me boat in the water in the morning, hoping the wind is not too bad. Need to make sure it runs. then,,, I will be happy to stop in Depot and beat up your starter or what ever you need on the way home.

Rod

[SaltCrazy]

My vote is for a soleniod (sp?) issue. Or the most common problem of all...bad ground. If the soleniod does click try giving it a light rap. Good luck.

[sliverslinger]

I had a similar problem in my truck, all it was was a faulty ground wire. I would check the solenoid, and check the cable ends for any corrosion or frayed wiring. You can turn the key on and then cross the starter and see if it engages.

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by Arima Grizzly

Hank. I am going to Newport to put the new to me boat in the water in the morning, hoping the wind is not too bad. Need to make sure it runs. then,,, I will be happy to stop in Depot and beat up your starter or what ever you need on the way home.

Rod

Rod
The boat is still up here in Portland
But thanks anyways
I appreciate the offer

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by SaltCrazy

My vote is for a soleniod (sp?) issue. Or the most common problem of all...bad ground. If the soleniod does click try giving it a light rap. Good luck.

It appears that I have 3 solinoids or relays... one for each cylinder and they all click at the same time when the key is turned
?????
All cables were removed filed smooth and clean, greased and put back where they came off
All batteries (3 of them) were fully charged

The starter looks like it is brand new not a sign of rust or corrosion but it confuses me
There is no RED lead going to it
The positive cable goes from the battery to the lower solinoid? Relay? and then smaller wires come off of it that go to the next relay then the next

On the bottom relay there is a short BLACK cable that goes to one of 2 posts on the starter the ground cable from the battery goes to the other post
I was leary of jumping 2 black wires on the starter
Shouldn't one lead be RED?

Thankfully I have help on the way

[Highmark]

I have to ask this. Last year did you do anything to this system to alter
it or add anything to it. If not I would say the wiring is correct. Now go back to the starter . One more thing is this an inbd or and outbd.

HM

Originally Posted by fyshndad

It appears that I have 3 solinoids or relays... one for each cylinder and they all click at the same time when the key is turned
?????
All cables were removed filed smooth and clean, greased and put back where they came off
All batteries (3 of them) were fully charged

The starter looks like it is brand new not a sign of rust or corrosion but it confuses me
There is no RED lead going to it
The positive cable goes from the battery to the lower solinoid? Relay? and then smaller wires come off of it that go to the next relay then the next

On the bottom relay there is a short BLACK cable that goes to one of 2 posts on the starter the ground cable from the battery goes to the other post
I was leary of jumping 2 black wires on the starter
Shouldn't one lead be RED?

Thankfully I have help on the way

[Maverick Maxcat]

I hate to ask, but can you turn the motor over by hand? It could be seized up.....

[FishFreak]

Hank,
You have far more expertise here than I could ever provide... but I can certainly send some mechanical mojo your way....
A few properly placed prayers have fixed more than couple of mis-haps for me.
You definately have the good guy karma on your side

dave

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by Highmark

I have to ask this. Last year did you do anything to this system to alter
it or add anything to it. If not I would say the wiring is correct. Now go back to the starter . One more thing is this an inbd or and outbd.

HM

No alterations were made to anything concerning the wiring
It is an Outboard 90 HP Merc

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by Maverick Maxcat

I hate to ask, but can you turn the motor over by hand? It could be seized up.....

The starter does not engage
The little gear that pops up and turns the fly wheel does not move when the key is turned

The starter gear slides up and down the shaft easily using my fingers

It just seems like there is no juice getting to the starter itself

[Highmark]

If you have not done anything to the system and it was working fine when you put it bed last year. and the solenoid shaft works fine. can you put a
meter to the hot lead at the starter and turn it over or try to turn over and see what the meter is reading. it should be 12 to 13 vlts dc.it If it gives you any other reading. Like nothing . it's not there. start looking at the switch at the throttle controls. I have had this problem like this on an evenrude with same same indications. It was in the throttle control.
you say the ingagement gear slides up and down on the shaft ??

Herman

Originally Posted by fyshndad

No alterations were made to anything concerning the wiring
It is an Outboard 90 HP Merc

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by Highmark

If you have not done anything to the system and it was working fine when you put it bed last year. and the solenoid shaft works fine. can you put a
meter to the hot lead at the starter and turn it over or try to turn over and see what the meter is reading. it should be 12 to 13 vlts dc.it If it gives you any other reading. Like nothing . it's not there. start looking at the switch at the throttle controls. I have had this problem like this on an evenrude with same same indications. It was in the throttle control.
you say the ingagement gear slides up and down on the shaft ??

Herman

Yes the gear slides just using my fingers to move it up & down the shaft

[Sadie-Lynne]

had a problem like this several years ago. It ended up being the switch itself. That switch can be quite spendy. Check your power right at the switch when you are turning the key. Or you can just bypass the switch and hot wire it and see if the starter turns over...

[Highmark]

Hank you are going to have use a meter now. start by testing power
at the starter hot lead. put the red test lead on the red hot lead on the starter and the - lead on the - lead on the starter and read it out. turn the switch on.and try to start it if there is nothing there . it's up stream from there. do you have a volt ohm meter.
that is the next step. we can work thu this .

Herman

quote=fyshndad;1995181]Yes the gear slides just using my fingers to move it up & down the shaft[/quote]

[Sweepy]

Hank,

I'm not an expert by any means, it could be the bendix spring inside the starter is seized.??? I can drop off a meter after work if you need.

Mike

Originally Posted by Highmark

Hank you are going to have use a meter now. start by testing power
at the starter hot lead. put the red test lead on the red hot lead on the starter and the - lead on the - lead on the starter and read it out. turn the switch on.and try to start it if there is nother there . it's up stream from there. do you have a volt ohm meter.
that is the next step. we can work thu this .

Herman

quote=fyshndad;1995181]Yes the gear slides just using my fingers to move it up & down the shaft

[/quote]

[beachboi26]

Originally Posted by fyshndad

Hey guys
As I was getting the final things done on the boat I tried to start my O/B
It will not crank
It acts like a dead battery but I know the batts are OK
I even went and bought a brand new charger because I did not trust the old one
I removed, cleaned and put elect grease on all cable ends

What Am I missing here?
It ran perfect when I last used it

Thanks
Who ever figures this one out will be rewarded

could it be the starter?

[Onokai]

Put a jumper battery straight to the two the starter and ground conection . I trouble shot a friens merc last season with this exact woe. The starter cranked with a direct jump. Turns out the ground was loose at a buss bar connection. The started turen right over with 12 solid volts to it the meter said it had 12 volys but it lacked AMPS. Mercs like APMs. Mark

[crazyinoregon]

i found this info online:
If you only get a click, attach negative lead of voltmeter to ground, and the positive lead to the yellow/red stripe wire on the solenoid. Try to crank motor. Does the voltmeter show a full 12 volts at the yellow/red stripe wire? If so, replace solenoid and starter as a pair. If not, the problem is not the starter. Trace Yellow/red stripe wire to key switch to make sure there is 12 volts to the switch connections.

[Chrome Bumper]

Loose connection is most likely.

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by beachboi26

could it be the starter?

Bingo
It was the starter
Siezed up tighter than my wallet

We tested it and voltage was good
Took it off and went to the battery factory to test the starter
Then went to Stevens $325 for a replacement
Yikes
Off to Auto Electric in Milwaukie
Handed it to the guy and asked how soon he could get it fixed
He carried it to the work bench and popped it apart
The shaft was froze onto the bearing the brushes were ugly
and he said $100 and it will be ready tomorrow

That is some great service right there

THANK YOU TO ALL THAT TRIED TO HELP

[CATCH AND EAT]

And you even spelled starter right. Glad you found the problem. Just goes to show that even when things look good they can be bad on the inside.

[Medics-R-US]

Thats great to hear you found the problem Hank!!!!

I am in no way an expert but I was leaning towards the starter myself but I figgured with all the great advive you were getting that my would not really help out one way or the other.

[Thumper]

Well, that was exhausting...

[little doc]

And now...............You are back in business this weekend.

[Sea Fox]

Glad to hear it Hank, those guys at Auto Electric are the best. I'll be down at Newport tommorow night. Give you a call down there for a report out at the Ranch.

[fyshndad]

Got A call about an hour ago to come pick up the starter it is fixed

Un real service
Dropped it off about 2:30-3:00 yesterday and ready at 10:15 the next morning

I will have to bring that guy some fresh fish

KUDOS to Auto Electric Specialties:applause :

[fishbait]

Yea........

[HiTekRdNek]

Great news. Glad your on the way to having it fixed.