Coastal "2 wild + 2 reruns = 2 keepers" Chrome!! (PIC)

[Ty]

Spinner man and I hit the coast tdy (Sunday) to try out luck again! We never had a nibble untill after 1:00pm. I hooked this one at the very end of my drift, I mean very end.... as I was reelin in!
Caught on red and white mock up glow-go and shrimp drift fishing after I had a float take down that didn't stick.

Here is a rerun caught on float and eggs.

Spinnerman caught this one after a couple float take downs and that didn't stick, caught on shrimp and float.

Here is a native that absolutly slammed a real custom pink pearl glow-glo and shrimp drift fishing.

Here is a rerun I owe thanks to my fish finder partner Spinnerman! He had three float take downs and no hook up's and I landed three on drift gear in the same area after wading back up and fishing it.

Here is the second one from that the same hole caught with a custom pink pearl glow-go and chatruse yarn. This was my first keeper of the day.

Here is the third one from the same hole caught with a mock up red and white glow go with chatruse yarn and eggs. This fish had a complete hook, leader, corkie set up in the corner of it's mouth (who said they get sore mouth's) Josh passed on the "Limb Cod Father" right of passage to me and I was deep in the wood and bye bye to my prized custom pink pearl glow-go. Guess who is not laughin now.

For some reason these steelies where hiting things under the float, but where not takin um down or just bumpin um? [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] But, with a few casts with drift gear they where ready and willing.

So all in all a slow day tell late afternoon when we got down to the fish and figured out how to catch some of them......It took two natives and two run backs to get to hatchery keepers.

SO, by fishing I am doin calculus:

Sinple eqation to catch steelhead:
2 (floats left in trees) + 2 (newly aquired and custom painted prized glow-go's driftin to sea) + 2 (too many other barley miscalulated casts to the limb cod father) + 2 beautiful natives + 2 hatchery reruns = 2 hatchery steelhead limit for the day!

How u like my math now Grant?

By the way that puts me over 50 fer the season after the last two outing's being gooseggs for landed fish and Friday the thirteenth from "h" "e" "double tooth pick" where I lost more gear in several hours than I had lost in the entire season and only touched one fish that never even game the honor of more than a head shake good bye. That will teach me... No more Freaky Freddy Fishing Friday's teh 13th fer me on teh coast!

[ 02-16-2004, 01:35 AM: Message edited by: Ty ]

[Thumb Burner]

Just killing em. Way to go Ty.
Keep up the pictures. Got to love them.

SS

[Grant Scheele]

I get this math. Great job!!

[jokester]

As always...YOU DA MAN Ty!! Way to put a hurting on those steelies!!

Josh passed on the "Limb Cod Father" right of passage to me and I was deep in the wood and bye bye to my prized custom pink pearl glow-go. Guess who is not laughin now.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Not me...i'm busting a gut! Limb Cod Father...

-jokester

[SHOUGALNITE]

[SPAZZ]

Nice fish guys! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[rhansme]

Similar story here....

No pix however as did not feel like lugging the camera.

#1. Wild buck...15lbs...Nate, laying in a shallow riffle.
#2. Same hole except in the tailout...comeback hen.
#3. Bright chrome hen pretending to be a missle. Caught under a tree.
#4. Comeback hen.
#5. Silver Jack.

[Cowlitz Kidd]

Whey to go guys you got good fish in oregon.I see the pics. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[steelhead22]

Ty- I've been seeing the same thing a lot this year. I would say at I've been catching at least one fish per trip that has a hook that's been broke off in it's mouth. Last time we took out 2 hooks out of a hen my buddy landed not counting his. This year I've seen more fish with full bellies of eggs, sandshrimp, plastics, etc. than ever before.

Here's a question and a little side topic (maybe I should start a new thread), are you catching a lot of reruns with tags in them. I've caught a couple that have been hole punched, but I've never caught or seen one caught that had a tag in it. What's the deal, there's a ton of them in the hatchery trap on the Alsea, but few being taken on the river. Do you think they are just genetically programmed to be "non-biters". I've always wondered about this. If we catch many of the "biters" in a stream, doesn't that leave the hatchery with the "non-biters" for reproduction? Kinda like pheasants, you have fliers and runners. Natural selection at work.

[SpinnerMan]

Its great to watch Ty (Master Steelheader) at work. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

He did have to make his sacrifices to the limb Gods, but we all do. :blush:

This old dog is learning lots of new tricks!! :grin:




SM

[Siwash]

Steelhead22,

I got one late yesterday on the NF Alsea that had one of the blue plastic "re-run" tags in it. It also had a max clip. I forget--does anyone know if that's the mark for the new broodstock program there?

[Salmonator]

Steehead22, most broodstock programs that I know of use natives caught by rod and reel and put in holding ponds. I suppose this way you always breed biters.

[Ty]

First of all:
The right maxialary bone is the Wild Brood Stock, and Left maxiallry is Hatchery Brood stock.

Tag has to do withthe riming that it entered the hatcery. The hole in the Operculum (gill plate) means that it was used for brrodstock for this yeat then released. Yes, they are releasing males and females and i don't know the demographics. Twitchs said teh hole in the gill plate is to try and see how many cume back in successive years.

Finaly:

Breeding non-biters is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard.....

Think about it from a fishes point of view.

The most aggressive fish are the most likely to be caught....

Thus wild fish are the most aggressive fish, this helps them defend territories as juviniles in the streams in witch they rear, so fish are selected for aggressive behavior if u are a wild fish.

Hatchery fish reared in heavy densities and in holding ponds where they compete for pellets and don't have to worry about preditors are selected for fish will much more passive behavior.

This doesn't nessisarily mean that these are genetic differences.........These behavioral differences between hatchery and wild fish are teh fish's direct ability to be able to adjust and adapt to different environmental and different physical surroundings.

The best exaple of this that I can think of is the lakes on the coast have Coho Runs that have both Lake rearing and Stream rearing juvinile coho. Both of these fish spawn in the same streams, some rear in the lake and some in the streams.

Physilogical amd morphological measurements where taken on the fish from the two different rearing locations. They have very differnt fin dimentions, body shape, and general appearance with the lake fish already shiny and silvery w/ no parrmarks as if they where in the ocean already and the stream fish were still in there cryptic campfloage stage w/ parr marks and dark colors represented. The lake fish also represented schooling behavior and didn't defend territories (survival behavioral adaptation) while there brothers and sisters in the streams where very territorial in order to be able to compete for the best feeding stations.

So, a fish returning to the hatchery that was not caugth by angler is more likely due to the timing in which teh fish passed up through the gauntlet of fisherman, and the particualr life phase the fish was in when they passed fisherman.

However, there may be selcetion for fish that return straight to the hatchery verses fish that spend a greater amount of time holding in the river first before returning to the hatchery.

So think about fish behavior, not at a fisherman, but from the fishes point of view to try and understand different fish bahavior.

[steelhead22]

floatnfish- Well said. "Too many rats in the cage" seems logical to me as well. Seems like a lot of variables, especially when so much of a young fishes life is in an unnatural setting. Ty, I am under the assumption that fish behavior is not well understood and that there is still a lot to learn about why fish as a species as well as individuals act, is this an incorrect assumption?

[Siwash]

Steelhead22,

I think the key--not mentioned in your post, but Ty and Float alluded to--is whether the broodstock is collected by anglers using hook and line vs collected in the hatchery trap. That's the crux of the whole new wild broodstock programs compared to previous practices. You're right, the old way selected favorably for non-biters that just raced to the trap, while the new program should help select for better biters, since their parents were kind enough to "volunteer" for collection by getting caught somewhere out in the river.

[steelhead22]

Siwash- That's what I thought. Maybe you can answer this, on the Alsea you have broodstock (right max) and hatchery (left max) as well as some that have neither (let's leave that only, I'm getting confused). So, as I understand it, the broodstock came from wild fish and the hatchery fish came from hatcheries that made it back, right? What's the point of planting hatchery fish then, or are we in transition to an all broodstock program right now? I suppose this is where the tags come in and they are doing the research on a lot of this right now. WHAT IS GOING ON!!! I guess we just have to trust that what is being done is the right thing to do. Seems to me like there's a lot of changes right now and a lot of "We'll see how it works." out there right now.

[Twitchs_Tackle]

Ty, way to go! Sunday was a wierd day for me also. Was in a hole I knew had fish, but only touched one in the first 2 hours of fishing, then bam, 5 fish in about 45 minutes. Have had one of 'your' weeks this past 7 days, personally hooking 24 fish.

Here's one of the bigger ones that is still out there swimming around! Nice color... :grin:


PS: I think I found one of your glo-go's (pink pearl) I'm holding it hostage! Will trade for my fly that is in a cute little broodstock's mouth if you catch her...

[blacktail519]

Nicely done.. Those are some great pics!! [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

[redfish89]

Ty, Nice fish...Thanks for sharing.

[SKP]

As always, great pics and posts! Nice fishing Ty. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

SKP :grin:

[Chilly one]

I'm not sure I understand why you fellas that have caught 50 fish for the season use a net on Natives? Help me. To preserve the fishery and help MAKE sure the fish has every opportunity for it's strength including it's slime I've always tried to use the pliers and release even when taking "pics".
Regards,
Chillyone..... [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

[Ty]

Good point chilly one.... Suley would have been better off to beach then and release them. Only reason I netted then was for the prized pink pearl glo-go on both! Then we took a quick photo.

One word of caution though, releasing a fish with out reviving can be much worse then handling it in a net, cause the fish may not be able to right itself and drown. If I didn't feel confident about my fish handling skills I would have never netted them, unfortunately there was no area to beach then and release them otherwise.

[Sublime]

Nice fish, Twitchs_tackle!..

..and you too, TY, ....my congratulations are almost getting redundant! :grin:

[SSPey]

Studies have shown that hatchery rainbow trout, when released into rivers, will display overly aggressive behavior towards wild trout and will displace them from prime habitat through sheer aggressive behavior. This doesn't fit with the idea of hatchery fish being more "passive" but instead fits the idea of "too many rats in a cage" and the resulting behavior that gets imprinted by hatcheries.

I have my suspicion that the bite is inadvertently bred out of runs with strictly brat to brat breeding programs. Like Ty said, the non-biters are the ones who make it back to the hatchery to "breed" again (not talking wild broodstock programs here). The biters wind up on the BBQ. sizzle sizzle sizzle.

Fly fishers consistently acknowledge that wild fish are easier to catch than hatchery brats. Wild fish will move farther to a fly. Guides who compare the proportions of wild vs hatchery fish in their catch to the proportions that are present in different rivers indicate that wild fish are 2-5X more likely to bite. Fish food for thought..

[steelhead22]

Whoa there, did I touch a never or somethin'. I was just askin' because it seemed reasonable and I heard it said somewhere. It still doesn't sound all that ridiculous to me. You even said in your post, "The most aggressive fish are most likely to be caught..." which would lead me to believe that the less aggressive fish would be less likely to be caught...thus the ones that survive to spawn (either in the wild or at the hatchery).

What you talked about later in your post, about time spent in the rivers was another question I've been milling around while on the river. Some of these tagged fish are taken from the hatchery, recycled, then are right back in the trap in a couple days, unscathed. Then you catch a hatchery that's dark and has been in the river forever, just taking his/her time, maybe spawning, etc. So...what about breeding for that behavior? Seems to me that the ones that stay in the river longer have a better chance to get taken by anglers, predators, etc., while those that blast up to the hatchery in a couple days and out of harms way would be the ones that get used to produce the next "batch" of hatchery fish?

I've asked this question before and got the same response. But I ask this... why is natural selection irrelavent when talking about fish when it's widely accepted with other species. I only use pheasant as an example because it's one many of us sportsman are familiar with. We all know that you have birds that are more apt to run and some that are more apt to fly. The ones that fly get shot, thus taking them out of the breeding population leaving the runners to breed. From my understanding this theory is accepted by many, many upland hunters. Why is it so ridiculous to think that the same thing can happen in fish species? It's natural selection, if you believe in this then how can you discount the possibility that anglers (predators) are selecting for "non-biters" or less aggressive fish? The reason I ask you is that I thought you would know this better than others, myself included, as you have an option in Fisheries. I asked these questions to my MTH 268 (Calculus applied to biological models) teacher as well as my Genetics teachers while I attended OSU (B.S. General Science) and they seemed lost. I'm sure you have resources or case studies for this somewhere. I'd be interested to see some of the results, and even more interested if nobody is doing this. Would make an interesting thesis.