Why the hate for wolves ???

[PacificPointer]

I'm curious why men with safes full of high powered rifles are afraid of wolves. We all drive 5000 lb missles everyday with the potential to do way more damage than a dog could do but yet sound the alarm like the British are coming when someone sees one.

Are the wolves going to do as much damage as a housing tract, or industrial park ??? Are they going to hire Illegals to work these projects like I see all over the state??? Will they create another hip-hop nation like has been built the last 20 years??? Will they pick the mushrooms while your elk hunting and cow call in their camo??? Will they fish out the rivers and streams for anything they can throw in the pot???

I'm linking the wolf sighting thread over to Storm Front, people over there like the wolf and its a way bigger site than ifish with people that aren't afraid like some of you seem to be.

So post up your answers and compare the less than 20 wolves here in Oregon to the things I listed above.

[No Fences]

Not afraid of them. I just feel the same way about them as I do whiny people. I DON'T LIKE THEM!

[fishinpoor]

It's just no one here who hunts big game wants to see yellowstone all over again,we want our deer and elk to thrive,and as far as being more great white sharks than wolves,when the sharks go to ground and kill deer/elk,then i'll protest them as well.my

[PacificPointer]

Originally Posted by Rob Kaiser

Not afraid of them. I just feel the same way about them as I do whiny people. I DON'T LIKE THEM!

For what reasons dont you like them can you tell us why/how you came to this ????

[PacificPointer]

Originally Posted by fishinpoor

It's just no one here who hunts big game wants to see yellowstone all over again,we want our deer and elk to thrive,and as far as being more great white sharks than wolves,when the sharks go to ground and kill deer/elk,then i'll protest them as well.my

And the wolves will kill and wreck more habitat than a housing development ???

Sharks vs Salmon ????

[Rauly]

Okay so this thread has been cleaned up. Lets keep it clean.

[BrotherWolf]

I also have always wanted to know why myself.
I think when it comes down to it, I think Poachers are killing more big game than people think and yes wolfs and big cats also do in Oregon but they have to eat also. Personally I think wolfs and cougars are kewl and have there place But with that being said I also think that there numbers have to be controlled also with out having to put it up for a vote of the people.

All of gods creatures are here for a reason and all they have to fear is Man.

Just remember this before ya pull the trigger
Gray wolves in Oregon are listed as endangered species under state and federal laws. Killing animals protected under the federal Endangered Species Act is punishable by a fine of up to $100,000 and a year in jail, or both. But that probaly wont be for much longer. I sure would like to have one on the mantel

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/...%203-10-08.pdf

[HSF]

I dont think people fear or hate the wolves. I'm pretty sure most admire them, at least I think they are way cool.

It is the damage that they will do to the already unstable deer and elk herds. The cats are devistating the animal populations in many areas on the east side because the are running a-muck, breading like rabbits, and are not being controlled like they should be, because of the animal rights lovers who fooled the voters of this state into passing a very stupid law with no account for the repercussions.

If the state could and would manage the preditor population, I think most people would love to have the "occasional" wolf sighting.
Just at this time you almost have to lump them in the same catagory as the cats, and I dont like cats.

Just my

[raptorschild]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

I also have always wanted to know why myself.
I think when it comes down to it, I think Poachers kill more big game than any wolfs and big cats do in Oregon. Personally I think wolfs and cougars are kewl But with that being said I also think that there numbers have to be controlled also. All of gods creatures are here for a reason and all they have to fear is Man.

I think you answerd the question in your post. The only predators they have are man....and they compete with man for the resources.

If you think Poachers kill more animals per year than all the cougars, and wolves in OR......then you are under estimating the rate at which those animals kill.

I guess at the end of the day....Most people don't really fear the wolves....its just that humans are greedy in nature, and frankly they want quality hunting for themsleves, and the wolf gets in the way of that.

I think thats the end of the story. If wolves didnt eat all of our game....we wouldnt have a problem with them.


Its just not all that complicated in my opinion.

I don't hate wolves at all......and that probably has everything to do with the fact that I don't hunt big game.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by raptorschild

If you think Poachers kill more animals per year than all the cougars, and wolves in OR......then you are under estimating the rate at which those animals kill.

sorry I was thinking of one thing and typed in another!

[baltz526]

i think i'll go to a fishing site and praise the sea lions decimation of the fish population. this is exactly the same issue, without fins

[woolybuggerboy]

Does anyone have any statistics or studies about predation rates or poaching rates in Oregon? Is it really as big a deal as people make it out to be? I did extensive research on this in a college class last semester, which culminated in a term paper. It's not peer reviewed, but it's food for thought.

Here's an excerpt from a paper I wrote last year

Poaching has a very significant affect of elk populations. A study conducted in Western Washington found that in the three study areas combined, the poaching rate of marked elk was 21% of the legal harvest (for every 100 elk harvested legally an additional 21 were poached). In the Mount St. Helens study area alone the poaching rate was just over 35% of the legal harvest (Smith et al.). Another way to look at the information is that of all mortality on marked elk in the three study areas combined, 59% was caused by legal hunting, 15% from poaching, 15% from natural mortality (winterkill, predators), and 11% from other (wounding loss, vehicles, unknown). To combat the poaching epidemic, more monitoring, stiffer fines and laws that effectively deter poachers are necessary.

Another Excerpt, except on predators:
A study done in 1998 in SE Washington by Myers et Al. stressed the impact predators were having on elk populations. The objective of the study was to mark young elk less than three weeks old and determine their cause of death, if they died within the first year. Of the 240 elk calves captured, 47% survived to one year old. Of the elk calves that died, 77.6% died because of predation. Cougars were responsible for 49% (qtd. In Johnson). According to this study, about 26% of overall elk deaths were attributed to cougars. Elk populations have been decreasing due to many issues, and cougars are exacerbating the problem.

If anyone wants to go to a university library and look up these studies:

Smith, J L. et Al. Washington. Department of Fish and Wildlife. An Analysis of Elk Poaching Losses, and Other Mortality Sources in Washington Using Biotelemetry. Department of Fish and Wildlife, 1994. 79p

Myers, W. et al. Washington. Department of Fish and Wildlife. Investigations of Calf Elk Mortalities in Southeast Washington: Study Completion Report. Olympia: Department of Fish and Wildlife, 1998.

I think the studies speak for themselves. Both Predators and Poaching are equally severe problems for adult animals. For juvenile animals, predation has massive consequences. Coupled with loss of habitat, and habitat degradation and you have a big issue on your hands. This is why people have issues with predators. Because big game numbers are already on the decline, and predators are only exacerbating the problem.

Hunters also have problems with people who adamantly support predator introduction for the most part because they are unaware that our forests/habitats are unhealthy, and that widescale selective thinning and controlled burns are pretty much the only way to make them healthier and less dense (you guys who hunt eastern oregon know what I'm talking about). They hear logging and run the other way. They don't realize that adding predators without fixing the habitat will have massively negative effects, far greater than Yellowstone, as the elk here have poorer nutrition and more pressure/ disturbance than elk there.

I for one think that until the habitat is restored to almost pristine conditions, that wolf introduction should be held off. We also need to get a good grasp on poaching and cougar predation too.

[Lucky Guy]

Originally Posted by woolybuggerboy

Poaching has a very significant affect of elk populations. A study conducted in Western Washington found that in the three study areas combined, the poaching rate of marked elk was 21% of the legal harvest (for every 100 elk harvested legally an additional 21 were poached). In the Mount St. Helens study area alone the poaching rate was just over 35% of the legal harvest (Smith et al.). Another way to look at the information is that of all mortality on marked elk in the three study areas combined, 59% was caused by legal hunting, 15% from poaching, 15% from natural mortality (winterkill, predators), and 11% from other (wounding loss, vehicles, unknown). To combat the poaching epidemic, more monitoring, stiffer fines and laws that effectively deter poachers are necessary.

Another Excerpt, except on predators:
A study done in 1998 in SE Washington by Myers et Al. stressed the impact predators were having on elk populations. The objective of the study was to mark young elk less than three weeks old and determine their cause of death, if they died within the first year. Of the 240 elk calves captured, 47% survived to one year old. Of the elk calves that died, 77.6% died because of predation. Cougars were responsible for 49% (qtd. In Johnson). According to this study, about 26% of overall elk deaths were attributed to cougars. Elk populations have been decreasing due to many issues, and cougars are exacerbating the problem.

If anyone wants to go to a university library and look up these studies:

Smith, J L. et Al. Washington. Department of Fish and Wildlife. An Analysis of Elk Poaching Losses, and Other Mortality Sources in Washington Using Biotelemetry. Department of Fish and Wildlife, 1994. 79p

Myers, W. et al. Washington. Department of Fish and Wildlife. Investigations of Calf Elk Mortalities in Southeast Washington: Study Completion Report. Olympia: Department of Fish and Wildlife, 1998.

I think the studies speak for themselves. Both Predators and Poaching are equally severe problems for adult animals. For juvenile animals, predation has massive consequences. Coupled with loss of habitat, and habitat degradation and you have a big issue on your hands. This is why people have issues with predators. Because big game numbers are already on the decline, and predators are only exacerbating the problem.

I don't mean to discount the poaching problem, but I don't think 10 - 15 year old predation statistics are accurate today.

A 10 and 15 year old study means that the data used in those studies is even older, and represents the predation rates of maybe 2000 cougars we had 10 - 20 years ago rather than the 5000 cougars we have today. I gotta believe that old data does not accurately reflect the relative effect of predation today.

I think you'd need to go at it by using the number of cougars out there now and their kill rate of roughly 1 per week (I think that's close, somebody correct that if I'm wrong.) So, if you have 5000 cougars (recent odfw estimates) and a kill per cat every week or 10 days, you're at about 200,000 - 250,000 elk and deer per year just from cougar. By comparison that number is only 80 - 100,000 per year for 2000 cougar as we had before the dog hunting ban. When you add in bear and coyote predation on calves the number is even higher.

[Got One!]

Originally Posted by PacificPointer

I'm curious why men with safes full of high powered rifles are afraid of wolves. We all drive 5000 lb missles everyday with the potential to do way more damage than a dog could do but yet sound the alarm like the British are coming when someone sees one.

Are the wolves going to do as much damage as a housing tract, or industrial park ??? Are they going to hire Illegals to work these projects like I see all over the state??? Will they create another hip-hop nation like has been built the last 20 years??? Will they pick the mushrooms while your elk hunting and cow call in their camo??? Will they fish out the rivers and streams for anything they can throw in the pot???

I'm linking the wolf sighting thread over to Storm Front, people over there like the wolf and its a way bigger site than ifish with people that aren't afraid like some of you seem to be.

So post up your answers and compare the less than 20 wolves here in Oregon to the things I listed above.

First off, your post is abrasive, and combative in its tone. I dont feel many are going to hate you if you like a wolf here, but the theres more people on that site than this site and they like wolves sounds almost like your in 3rd grade. Almost.... Theres a lot more HSUS supporters that agree with you also, go join, or have you?

Wolves are in direct competition for game with man as stated. Protecting wolves that start going after livestock is also an issue. Hungry packs of animals are dangerous, including domesticated dogs, thats why we don't see packs of them running the streets, I suppose if it was a pack of wolves that would be ok. But the animal rights groups that supported wolves being brought back in to our eco-system dont feel a domesticated animal such as your precious bird dog, should even exist. They have stated all predatory animals should be re-introduced and your dog should be spayed out of existence. Good alignment you have going there.

Left unchecked as they are now, they will become more of a danger as time moves forward, and the ranges will expand. There was a reason they were eradicated from every continent on the planet, as they were toward the top of every food chain on the planet. They learn very quickly, and if they figure out they can do anything without a human going after them, they will become a problem, sort of like sea lions as mentioned.

So yes I have a gun, no I'm not afraid of the big bad wolf, I'm afraid of the animal rights activists, putting an animal before my child. I'm afraid of people that support them without knowing the full story of what they are really up to. Was Oregon a worse place without wolves? Can you tell me the benefit of having a pack of wolves in YOUR neighborhood? Or is it OK because they are in Eastern Oregon and not down your street.

Life is full of choices, and I personally choose not to align with the HSUS or PETA, if you choose to, go put your dog to sleep, thats what they want you to do, and be proud of your choice, as I am of mine.

[Duckwheat]

I started actually hating wolves a few years ago. I was riding my very expensive mountain bike down a trail in central Idaho. I had all my approved safety gear because I wanted to be safe.

I also had along a very special friend of mine, Bob. Bob was short haired pointer that had never hunted a day in his life. He was not lazy or stupid just did not like to hunt.

When ever we got up a good head of steam Bob would begin to howl. Run while howling, I had never seen it before or since. Bob was a unusual Dog to say the least.

Our last trip, was the one where I began to hate wolves. We were riding along pretty fast and Bob was howling. Next thing I know Bob is getting ate by two big charcoal grey wolves. I never went back to help Bob out, but I hate wolves to this day.

How is that for a reason...

DW

[TAILOUT]

Originally Posted by Got One!

First off, your post is abrasive, and combative in its tone. I dont feel many are going to hate you if you like a wolf here, but the theres more people on that site than this site and they like wolves sounds almost like your in 3rd grade. Almost.... Theres a lot more HSUS supporters that agree with you also, go join, or have you?

Wolves are in direct competition for game with man as stated. Protecting wolves that start going after livestock is also an issue. Hungry packs of animals are dangerous, including domesticated dogs, thats why we don't see packs of them running the streets, I suppose if it was a pack of wolves that would be ok. But the animal rights groups that supported wolves being brought back in to our eco-system dont feel a domesticated animal such as your precious bird dog, should even exist. They have stated all predatory animals should be re-introduced and your dog should be spayed out of existence. Good alignment you have going there.

Left unchecked as they are now, they will become more of a danger as time moves forward, and the ranges will expand. There was a reason they were eradicated from every continent on the planet, as they were toward the top of every food chain on the planet. They learn very quickly, and if they figure out they can do anything without a human going after them, they will become a problem, sort of like sea lions as mentioned.

So yes I have a gun, no I'm not afraid of the big bad wolf, I'm afraid of the tree huggers and animal rights activists, putting an animal before my child. I'm afraid of people that support them without knowing the full story of what they are really up to. Was Oregon a worse place without wolves? Can you tell me the benefit of having a pack of wolves in YOUR neighborhood? Or is it OK because they are in Eastern Oregon and not down your street.

Life is full of choices, and I personally choose not to align with the HSUS or PETA, if you choose to, go put your dog to sleep, thats what they want you to do, and be proud of your choice, as I am of mine.

AMEN!!!!

[ehunter]

This sums it up for me too. This topic gets run into the ground so many times. :lurk:

Originally Posted by Got One!

First off, your post is abrasive, and combative in its tone. I dont feel many are going to hate you if you like a wolf here, but the theres more people on that site than this site and they like wolves sounds almost like your in 3rd grade. Almost.... Theres a lot more HSUS supporters that agree with you also, go join, or have you?

Wolves are in direct competition for game with man as stated. Protecting wolves that start going after livestock is also an issue. Hungry packs of animals are dangerous, including domesticated dogs, thats why we don't see packs of them running the streets, I suppose if it was a pack of wolves that would be ok. But the animal rights groups that supported wolves being brought back in to our eco-system dont feel a domesticated animal such as your precious bird dog, should even exist. They have stated all predatory animals should be re-introduced and your dog should be spayed out of existence. Good alignment you have going there.

Left unchecked as they are now, they will become more of a danger as time moves forward, and the ranges will expand. There was a reason they were eradicated from every continent on the planet, as they were toward the top of every food chain on the planet. They learn very quickly, and if they figure out they can do anything without a human going after them, they will become a problem, sort of like sea lions as mentioned.

So yes I have a gun, no I'm not afraid of the big bad wolf, I'm afraid of the tree huggers and animal rights activists, putting an animal before my child. I'm afraid of people that support them without knowing the full story of what they are really up to. Was Oregon a worse place without wolves? Can you tell me the benefit of having a pack of wolves in YOUR neighborhood? Or is it OK because they are in Eastern Oregon and not down your street.

Life is full of choices, and I personally choose not to align with the HSUS or PETA, if you choose to, go put your dog to sleep, thats what they want you to do, and be proud of your choice, as I am of mine.

[duckboy]

I do not hate the wolf,
It is rightly in its place.

One reighning over wild team,
as foes all men must face.

But bittersweet is Alpha's call,

when in silent times and careless aires,

were grasses swaying,
young calves playing,

And man was monarch of it all.

[Joe Schmo]

I spend about a month and a half camping in Idaho each summer. I love to listen to them at night. Last year I saw about 1/3 as many elk as I saw the year before.

[roadsend]

I love wolves as long as they live in uninhabited wilderness areas in Canada and Alaska.
Otherwise I have very little use for them, and even less use for the anti-hunting types who are ramming them down our throats.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Duckwheat

I started actually hating wolves a few years ago. I was riding my very expensive mountain bike down a trail in central Idaho. I had all my approved safety gear because I wanted to be safe.

I also had along a very special friend of mine, Bob. Bob was short haired pointer that had never hunted a day in his life. He was not lazy or stupid just did not like to hunt.

When ever we got up a good head of steam Bob would begin to howl. Run while howling, I had never seen it before or since. Bob was a unusual Dog to say the least.

Our last trip, was the one where I began to hate wolves. We were riding along pretty fast and Bob was howling. Next thing I know Bob is getting ate by two big charcoal grey wolves. I never went back to help Bob out, but I hate wolves to this day.

How is that for a reason...

DW

wow cant say I blame ya on that one.....ugh!

[Joe]

Originally Posted by roadsend

I love wolves as long as they live in uninhabited wilderness areas in Canada and Alaska.
Otherwise I have very little use for them, and even less use for the anti-hunting types who are ramming them down our throats.

Exactly my feelings! If only we could put the entire state back into wilderness then there would be room here for wolves. As it is you would have to have your head buried in the sand to think wolves belong in Oregon.

In this day and age all animals need to be managed......that doesn't mean we hate them. I think harbor seals are really cool animals but I would like to see about 75% of them shot. That make sense Pacific Pointer?

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by roadsend

and even less use for the anti-hunting types who are ramming them down our throats.

That’s whets happening to Oregon....there is so many anti Hunting people moving into this state it is pathetic... I wish they would all move back to where they came from...we were here first.

[whtelk]

The wolf that is here now is not indigenous to this area

[traks44]

Originally Posted by PacificPointer

I'm curious why men with safes full of high powered rifles are afraid of wolves. We all drive 5000 lb missles everyday with the potential to do way more damage than a dog could do but yet sound the alarm like the British are coming when someone sees one.

Are the wolves going to do as much damage as a housing tract, or industrial park ??? Are they going to hire Illegals to work these projects like I see all over the state??? Will they create another hip-hop nation like has been built the last 20 years??? Will they pick the mushrooms while your elk hunting and cow call in their camo??? Will they fish out the rivers and streams for anything they can throw in the pot???

I'm linking the wolf sighting thread over to Storm Front, people over there like the wolf and its a way bigger site than ifish with people that aren't afraid like some of you seem to be.

So post up your answers and compare the less than 20 wolves here in Oregon to the things I listed above.

I will probably get a citation from this but here goes....

Wolves represent everything bad about where this country is headed. This united states has gone from conservation to preservation and I can tell you that people like me are sick of people like you making decisions that dont contribute to any benifit of rural parts of oregon. I see you are from eugene, how often do you spend time over here on the east side. Do you or anyone else who doesnt live over here and live a rural life in Eastern Oregon have any comprehension of what goes on? Here is why I hate them and will take every opportunity to rid them, Like many things now its gonna take a wreck of a problem with them before something will be done and with wolves that might be to late. I HATE WOLVES!!!!!!

They represent a population of people who have no friggin clue, ask how many people on the east side if they like wolves or the idea of wolves and then ask the west side....yes sir we have a serious problem. Maybe its in our DNA to not like big hairy creatures that will only be another predator for ranchers to worry about but something else I can tell you is its not just ranchers that despise them.

Would it make you angry if I told you although I have never seen one I would take every opportunity to get rid of them if given the chance? I am trying to think of a person I know that wouldnt take things into their own hands.

This probably comes across really bad tonight and I dont really care, this subject gets talked about plenty on here without something making a post about why people dont like them.

Wolves have a place in the world in wilderness far in the backcountry and if you want to go see them their are plenty of parks out east where you can go take a picture of one for your mantle.

To me the wolves represent a population that is getting lazier and fatter, its my Range professor who makes us read liberal material in Ag classes. Its the people who live in the city and consider the city parks outdoors yet still get to vote on issues 300 miles away, its the people who have meaningless jobs and try to make them meaningful by making stupid laws and regulations that just affect everyone else. Its the people and groups with more money than sense that sue every state for wildlife "infractions" The bottom line for me is that wolves represent a country that is seemingly so far away from its routes and where it has come from that it will never recover.

Its the rules and people who will complain and write to the mods because my post wasnt very nice..............well you asked for it!



Disclaimer: Thoughts are only those of mine, any illegal activitys suggested above were only used for meaning.

[ehunter]

traks well said

Originally Posted by traks44

I will probably get a citation from this but here goes....

Wolves represent everything bad about where this country is headed. This united states has gone from conservation to preservation and I can tell you that people like me are sick of people like you making decisions that dont contribute to any benifit of rural parts of oregon. I see you are from eugene, how often do you spend time over here on the east side. Do you or anyone else who doesnt live over here and live a rural life in Eastern Oregon have any comprehension of what goes on? Here is why I hate them and will take every opportunity to rid them, Like many things now its gonna take a wreck of a problem with them before something will be done and with wolves that might be to late. I HATE WOLVES!!!!!!

They represent a population of people who have no friggin clue, ask how many people on the east side if they like wolves or the idea of wolves and then ask the west side....yes sir we have a serious problem. Maybe its in our DNA to not like big hairy creatures that will only be another predator for ranchers to worry about but something else I can tell you is its not just ranchers that despise them.

Would it make you angry if I told you although I have never seen one I would take every opportunity to get rid of them if given the chance? I am trying to think of a person I know that wouldnt take things into their own hands.

This probably comes across really bad tonight and I dont really care, this subject gets talked about plenty on here without something making a post about why people dont like them.

Wolves have a place in the world in wilderness far in the backcountry and if you want to go see them their are plenty of parks out east where you can go take a picture of one for your mantle.

To me the wolves represent a population that is getting lazier and fatter, its my Range professor who makes us read liberal material in Ag classes. Its the people who live in the city and consider the city parks outdoors yet still get to vote on issues 300 miles away, its the people who have meaningless jobs and try to make them meaningful by making stupid laws and regulations that just affect everyone else. Its the people and groups with more money than sense that sue every state for wildlife "infractions" The bottom line for me is that wolves represent a country that is seemingly so far away from its routes and where it has come from that it will never recover.

Its the rules and people who will complain and write to the mods because my post wasnt very nice..............well you asked for it!



Disclaimer: Thoughts are only those of mine, any illegal activitys suggested above were only used for meaning.

[CombinationLicense]

:lurk:

[baltz526]

I'm linking the wolf sighting thread over to Storm Front,

i googled this and it was a hate site

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by baltz526

i googled this and it was a hate site

Baltz is right; when I Googled it the first thing in the Google search response said "Racialist discussion board for pro-White activists and anyone else interested in White survival." Huh? May be I've got the wrong StormFront, but what does that group have to do with wolves?

[GDuck]

ROTFL.......... never seen that before....hilarious

[tikkahunter]

traks i agree with you 100% you nailed it

[NeverGuess]

This post is asking for trouble and fishing for quotes.

We should all ignore it, and let it go to the bottom of the list.

don't take the bait.

[OutdoorBum]

I used to hate when people told me this, now I find myself issuing the same recommendation. This topic can be found throughout the archives of previous threads....here you will find everyone's reasons for/against wolf populations. The website comment almost sounds like a "my Dad can beat up your Dad comment." If you don't know why people are against wolves, you'll NEVER be able to engage someone in intelligent discussion and provide your point of view. Like I said, go read the previous threads...

[JustCallMeDave]

Originally Posted by traks44

I will probably get a citation from this but here goes....

[Chug]

chuckles,, what is the MPG on that thing? might be worth it.

[Mr. BrownTrout]

First off I am a big game hunter and a fisherman. When ever i post any replies to wolf topics here on Ifish I get flammed to death. The wolves that were re-introduced are the same wolves that were here before. Yes I feel they have every right to be here, just as you and me. Yes they eat ungulates, yes they need to be managed. Mother nature can no longer manage what god put on this earth because much of their range has been taken over by housing developments. Many people will claim that wolves are the sole reason for them not getting their elk. But they don't want to accept that climate changes have a great affect on the animals and fish. They don't want to accept the toll that poaching has on the wildlife, they don't want to accept the damage done from road kills. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, I want wolves around and would like to have grizzly bears around too.

[Rauly]

Cleaned up again. Infractions to follow from now on.

[traks44]

The last thing I will add because I think it needs said.

It doesnt matter if you are a hunter or a fisherman. It doesnt matter if you spend 1 month a year over here or 5 months a year over here chasing game. I think the bottom line is that while many of you do not like ranchers grazing our public lands or farmers using certain pestidcides you are forgetting one HUGE factor. In rural places like Pendleton or other small towns in Eastern oregon PEOPLE SUPPORT AGRICULTURE. Everyone I know taked great pride in being from a farming and ranching community, even those who dont farm or ranch! So you can be that any factors that threaten this way of life will be disliked greatly. Sure there are those who wouldnt agree with me from pendleton but I dont need to take a poll to know they would be a minority.

Like I said earlier, its not just a wolves, well for me anyway and I am sure if given more thought people would agree. The wolve represents such a huge part of many issues that people who are in agriculture and these small towns in general just dont like and in some ways threaten some people way of life. Call it conserative, call it redneck, call it hillbilly. The frustrating part is on something like this that people believe minds can be changed over here. I think someone has already posted the beating the dead horse Icon....

I know I have made some pretty stout statements here but I truely believe that where your ties lie and your background and where you have been raised has alot to do with where you stand on the issue. whether you are aware of it or not.

Mrbrowntrout, I have never been sure why you and other post and let yourselves get flammed? There are far greater numbers of people who would vote for them than against right now. If it were me I could care less about what other people thought as long as I knew I was majority rule.

[RU1234]

Let me just offer some emperical data regarding wolves and elk. My hunting partners and I have been hunting one particular spot in Idaho for the past 9 years. Over the years we have taken 16 bulls from one long ridge. That ridge has never let us down.

Last year a pack of wolves moved into that area and the elk herds normally present vanished. When I would call, the only reply I got was from the wolves. I found a mature bull dead on that ridge that I can only assume was killed by wolves. No one from our party took an elk last year on that ridge, but had many stories of wolf howls everywhere they went.

I got my elk, but only after I moved to an area several miles away.

To the guy that started this thread: Yes, the wolf causes more damage that cars and housing tracts. You can't drive a car on the ridge I hunt and because it's National Forest, you can't put a house on it either. Nevertheless, this pack of wolves managed to wipe out and/or move herds of elk.

[rob allen]

There Are Elk Deer And All Kinds Of Wildlife All Over Yellowstone.. Been There And Seen It With My Own Eyes


This Is Just Like The Sealion Issue Humans Screw Things Up And Are Unwilling To Do What It Takes To Really Fix The Problem So We Blame Everything Else...

Complete And Utter B.s.

[JustCallMeDave]

This thread isn't going to get us anywhere positive, and has only served to inflame and divide.