I need "Help" Mechanic Needed

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-10-2008, 05:08 PM

I need a hand up! My 1987 Honda is overheating in the radiator but my temp gage reads normal.The fan is not coming on and I was told it was the head gasket but???? I am a full time student and a Father of 4 and have no income other than my wife who works full time. This car was given to me to help lessen the strain on my time of need and now it is not drivable. The car starts and runs and my friend that gave it to me put over a thousand into it last year before giving it to me to make sure it would last but less than 4 months later this happened.
Can you help? I don't know to much about cars or how much it would cost to fix it,but it is one of the nicest cars I have ever owned...and need it to be dependable for the kids and to finish my schooling! I am borrowing a car now that the water pump is going out in, and I am worried it to will break down. I can come up with a couple hundred dollars to fix it but I will have to borrow that from family! If you can help please call me at 503-317-9277 my name is Curt.... Thank you and God Bless!

jokester · 04-10-2008, 09:01 PM

Curt,

I'm not a mechanic, by far, but there is a couple things you can do to try and narrow the problem down. It's a 1987 Honda ???

1. When you checked the coolant level in the car (when it overheated), did you have to add any because it was low, or was the level OK?

Reason being, if the coolant level was OK, it might not be the head gasket. I would think that if your head gasket is leaking, that you would have to add coolant, because you're losing it. If you start the car, and let it run...and it looks like white "smoke" is coming out of your exhaust, this could be another indicator of a head gasket leak.

2. How long will the car run till it overheats?

Reason being, if you let the car run for a bit (~10-15 minutes) you can reach in and feel your upper radiator hose after that time has gone by. If that hose is still cold, you may have an issue with your thermostat sticking. This will cause your engine to overheat too. However, your temp gauge not reading the temp increase is a bit worrying. Does it read all the way on Cold when you go to start the car first thing in the morning, after it's sat overnight?

I'm not sure about the Hondas, but on some vehicles, there's a temperature sensor that controls when the fan turns on/off. If this sensor's bad, this could be the reason why your fan is not coming on. Then again, it could be some kind of fuse or relay too...like I said, i'm no mechanic.

Hope this helps some...

-jokester

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHFUL THINKN

I need a hand up! My 1987 Honda is overheating in the radiator but my temp gage reads normal.The fan is not coming on and I was told it was the head gasket but???? I am a full time student and a Father of 4 and have no income other than my wife who works full time. This car was given to me to help lessen the strain on my time of need and now it is not drivable. The car starts and runs and my friend that gave it to me put over a thousand into it last year before giving it to me to make sure it would last but less than 4 months later this happened.
Can you help? I don't know to much about cars or how much it would cost to fix it,but it is one of the nicest cars I have ever owned...and need it to be dependable for the kids and to finish my schooling! I am borrowing a car now that the water pump is going out in, and I am worried it to will break down. I can come up with a couple hundred dollars to fix it but I will have to borrow that from family! If you can help please call me at 503-317-9277 my name is Curt.... Thank you and God Bless!

wthr4d · 04-10-2008, 09:46 PM

Jokesters advice is on the money, but I'm not a mechanic either. I have kept several 100K + mile cars running for years though.

you can replace the thermostat and the radiator cap for under $20. this will be recommended no matter what the heating issue is.

The fan sensor thing was something I would not have thought of though! to find the sensor you should be able to follow the wires from the fan motor back to the sensor.

after you check all of these things is when you should think water pump and then head gasket. The only reason I would think head gasket is if I opened up the radiator cap and found a milky white film floating on top of the coolant OR if a similar milky fluid was in your oil or on your oil cap.

hope this all helps.

paul

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-10-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokester

Curt,

I'm not a mechanic, by far, but there is a couple things you can do to try and narrow the problem down. It's a 1987 Honda ???

1. When you checked the coolant level in the car (when it overheated), did you have to add any because it was low, or was the level OK?

Reason being, if the coolant level was OK, it might not be the head gasket. I would think that if your head gasket is leaking, that you would have to add coolant, because you're losing it. If you start the car, and let it run...and it looks like white "smoke" is coming out of your exhaust, this could be another indicator of a head gasket leak.

2. How long will the car run till it overheats?

Reason being, if you let the car run for a bit (~10-15 minutes) you can reach in and feel your upper radiator hose after that time has gone by. If that hose is still cold, you may have an issue with your thermostat sticking. This will cause your engine to overheat too. However, your temp gauge not reading the temp increase is a bit worrying. Does it read all the way on Cold when you go to start the car first thing in the morning, after it's sat overnight?

I'm not sure about the Hondas, but on some vehicles, there's a temperature sensor that controls when the fan turns on/off. If this sensor's bad, this could be the reason why your fan is not coming on. Then again, it could be some kind of fuse or relay too...like I said, i'm no mechanic.

Hope this helps some...

-jokester

The level was fine then it just started leaking out the bottom of the radiator after running for 5 min or so! There is no water in the oil and no smoke or steam from exaughst? The temp gage starts out on cold then as car runs for 5 min it will rise to normal, the water in the radiator at that time will start leaking out the bottom of radiator and start getting hot from lack of water(steaming) but not on the gage. When I run it with out the cap on or just loose it boils out the top of radiator. Thanks for your response and help however not only do I not know how to fix it but I am disabled and have a hard time standing long enough to work on it.. Maybe i should try to sell it? It has so many new parts I just wish it could get it fixed! Oh well thanks again! Curt..

Incredible_Bulk · 04-10-2008, 10:53 PM

Second the water pump. If the thermostat is functioning its very possible that its just not circulating coolant. Replace the thermostat anyway.

suckerfish · 04-11-2008, 03:50 AM

Will the car run longer with the Cap off, before the water boils out?

suckerfish

Don Becker · 04-11-2008, 06:50 AM

I'm not a trained auto mechanic either. But, I do a lot of monkey-wrenching. I sure wish I wasn't so tied-up this weekend and all through next week too or, I would come and take a look for you - - if only to assist with the diagnosis. The part about the engine block (temp sensor) not going above normal operating temperature seems odd, given the other symptoms - - - - also, I think you indicated the water pump is going out. If you have no water in the oil (even tiny bubbles on the dipstick), I doubt this is very serious and, with the right help, your "couple hundred" is likely more than sufficient to get the job done and back onto the road. Dumping the car now seems hasty. An ifisher is going to step-up here, just be patient. Best wishes. Don

HntnFsh · 04-11-2008, 07:10 AM

Ive dealt with these a lot.

Very possibly a sticky thermostat.Maybe a water pump.Start it up and squeeze the top rad hose shut for a bit,when its warm(wear gloves).Then release the pressure.Do you feel water running through it.If so its probably not the pump.Another sign of a blown head gasket would be to take the radiator cap off when the engine is cold.Start the car.If its blowing bubbles or water out,you have head problems.A quik compression check will tell you also.If 2 cylinders next to each other are lower than the rest you have a blown gasket between those 2 cylinders.If 1 cylinder is low it could possibly be a cracked head.There should be a pretty large variation of compression if its a head problem.Not just a few pounds.

Oil in the water or water in the oil is a bad sign.Check the dip stick for foam,also under the oil cap for excess foam.Slight milky look could be condesation.

If it runs cool while driving,then heats up when sitting it could also be a head cracked head.

The sensor for those is on the bottom of the radiator on the engine side.Really easy to get to from the bottom.You can pull it out and test it with a multi meter and some hot water.Or buy a new 1.I dont think they are too expensive.$35 or so..Its a little brass sensor with a black plug going into it.

I would start with the thermostat.Sounds like it could be your problem.Then compression check.Or compression check first if you have access.Its quick and easy.Just pull all the plugs and check each cylinder.If thats ok then the sensor.Sensors going out on these is fairly common.If your cars getting up to operating temp.The fan should come on.Oh ya,pull the fuse cover off in the engine compartment.Make sure its not just the relay blown.The inside of the cap will tell you which fuse and relay goes to what.In fact check that first! You could just swap another relay temporarily.if its blown and see if that does it.

Hope that helps.

HntnFsh · 04-11-2008, 07:16 AM

The thermostat on these is really easy to get to also.If you change it there is a little valve that looks like a grease fitting next to the thermostat housing.After your done changing the thermostat,start the car and crack that valve.It will bleed the air out of the system.When its shooting a steady stream of water,tighten it back down.

IDWITHELD · 04-11-2008, 10:40 AM

take the upper rad hose off, run the car to normal opperating temp (probably 180-190?) and if no fluid pumps out then the pump is dead or the thermostat is stuck closed.

If the fan is not kicking on then there is no heat in the radiator because it is not circulating coolant.

Quiet Riot · 04-11-2008, 10:55 AM

Are you sure there is an overheating problem? Sounds to me like a radiator/hose leaking. When the level gets low enough it no longer has fluid contacting the temp sensor which is why it does not read hotter.

Just a guess and good luck with it.

CATCH AND EAT · 04-11-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHFUL THINKN

The level was fine then it just started leaking out the bottom of the radiator after running for 5 min or so!

First thing you need to do is determine if the water leaking from the bottom of the radiator core or from a seam in one of the radiator tanks. If so the radiator will need to be replaced. If you replace the radiator it is always a good idea to also replace the thermostat.

Second thing, if the radiator is determined to not be leaking the you need to check the lower hose/hoses. Once again, if these are leaking you must replace them.

Third, if the cooling fan is not coming on at all period then you need to check the fan relays in the fuse box as well as see if there is an independant fuse for fan operations.

One thing you could do is drive the vehicle to a local radiator or mechanical shop and see if they will pressure test your cooling system for you. This should be very inexpensive to test and it will tell you where you possibly have a leak at.

There is no water in the oil and no smoke or steam from exaughst?

This is a good thing and points back to the radiator components.

The temp gage starts out on cold then as car runs for 5 min it will rise to normal, the water in the radiator at that time will start leaking out the bottom of radiator and start getting hot from lack of water(steaming) but not on the gage.

Probably steaming from just the leak you are experiencing at the bottom of the tank. You may have to take some engine shield off from under the bottom of the boat for a clear view of the radiator. This only takes a couple of minutes to do.

There are a few other good suggestions here but I would suspect the radiator because of your description of loosing fluid.

.

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-11-2008, 03:31 PM

Thank you all for your advice! Is there someone out there that could come and take a look at it in the Beaverton, Aloha area??? My nephew was able to pull the plug apart for the fan and ran a hot lead to the wire for the fan and the fan came on,so i at least know the fan is good but not working properly.. and we checked the fuse in the dash compartment and it looks fine? I had him remove a few of the screws to the plastic cover under the radiator to see if we could see where it is leaking from but could not tell. and could not find the sensor? Not to mechanically Inclined. I am available after noon on Sunday and anytime after 3pm during the week if someone could take a look for me? There is a nice chunk of smoked salmon in it for you! let me know or call me at 503-317-9277 Thanks again and God Bless

wthr4d · 04-11-2008, 03:50 PM

IF you were closer to Corvallis Id be happy to help you but it would eat up half my day just getting to you! be patient there will be someone here who can and will help out.

Paul

Lou · 04-11-2008, 05:21 PM

I to wish I was closer.
You say the water appears on the bottom when it heats up?
Cap would be the first thing, I'd look at.
You mentioned the water pump?? Is it working? If it's not
when it over heats it will boil out.
You can 'see' it with the cap off and radiator full it will
be moving.
Honda's are bullet proof, but that radiator is plastic, be carefull.
Don't get rid of it.
Slow down and take it one step at a time.
Pump yes/no.
Cap yes/no.
Blockage ??
Does not over heat while moving?

Lou · 04-11-2008, 05:24 PM

Get your hands on a ohm meter ans check that switch.
Hook it up to the battery to see if the fan actually runs.
Let us know.

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-11-2008, 08:41 PM

I ran a hot lead to the fan and it kicked on! but won't on its own when it gets warm? when the radiator is full and i start it the water is moving in side? the water only leaks out when it gets hot and starts to boil over I put the cap on and it leaks out the bottom but stays in if radiator is cool?water pump and therastat i think are ok? HELP

sliverslinger · 04-12-2008, 04:53 AM

You can check the guage sensor by the thermostat also. That may be why you are getting a reading of normal when it is overheating. The first thing I would do is change the thermostat, then try it. Always start with the cheap things. If that doesnt do it, then try the water pump.
Have you checked your lower hose? When the water gets hot the hose will swell up and that may be where the water is coming from. Check all the hose connections also. You may need to get down there with a flashlight to find out where the leak is.

On the water pump you can take it off and look at the fins in there. If they are corroded or just eaten away , it is time to replace it.

Lou · 04-12-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FISHFUL THINKN

I ran a hot lead to the fan and it kicked on! but won't on its own when it gets warm? when the radiator is full and i start it the water is moving in side? the water only leaks out when it gets hot and starts to boil over I put the cap on and it leaks out the bottom but stays in if radiator is cool?water pump and therastat i think are ok? HELP

OK, you say fan works, but the sensor may be defective. Right?

Water is moving in radiator. Right? Pump is probably OK.

When hot, the water comes out the bottom? Right?
It's a defective cap. There is a drain line from the cap area, to keep
the water off the block and the old cap is failing, causing this.

Water pump in Honda's are usually bullit proof---but they should
be replaced when changing the belts. This is easy if you know what
you are doing----but a special tool is required.

I think you need a new radiator cap and maybe a sensor.
Start with the cap, then the sensor if needed.
Keep us informed.
Lou

Bootstrap Bill · 04-12-2008, 07:31 AM

sounds like a clogged radiator. Does this car have a overflow tank? If so is the coolant overflowing from overflow tank? if it is it's probably a clogged radiator. Have you tried flushing the system? have you checked the plastic petcock valve on the bottom of the radiator? it has a rubber O ring that may not be sealing and letting coolant leak when the pressure builds.

HntnFsh · 04-12-2008, 07:02 PM

Throw in a t stat and a rad cap and see what happens.

The sensor is below the shroud on that car.Look on the back bottom.You'll see the pet **** and the sensor over from that.

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-14-2008, 04:55 PM

Thanks!

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-16-2008, 05:29 PM

A fellow ifisher said if I can drive it to his shop he will take a look at it. I will keep you posted.....

seabass · 04-17-2008, 11:10 AM

My vote would be the cap. I had a similar problem and after replacing everything without success I found out the cap couldn't maintain the correct pressure.

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-18-2008, 10:23 PM

well we rigged it so the fan stays on to cool the radiator and I drove it about 5 miles and it did not over heat on my temp gage and did not steam at stop lights but when I got home it was all most out of water again and boiling in radiator as I put water in while it was running? I checked oil and no water there and no smoke or steam from exhaust? Last week I put some liquid stop leak in radiator and am wondering if I plugged it up or if head gasket is leaking in water jacket???? I just don't know.. I am not to knowledgeable about cars!

veilside180sx · 04-18-2008, 10:41 PM

Don't use that stop leak stuff, as it can potentially clog the cooling jackets in the motor rather than the leak in the radiator, etc. Obviously it's a little late now as you've already put it in, but don't make the mistake of doing it again.

It sounds like either a bad thermostat or a clogged radiator. First thing I'd do from here is just remove the thermostat all together and let it loop back around uninhibited from flowing through the motor/radiator. It's free and only takes a few minutes.

Lou · 04-19-2008, 10:19 AM

I agree no stop leak. You have a bad cap.
Possibly a thermostat.
Caps are cheap.

djb · 04-19-2008, 03:13 PM

Fill it up with water and open that little plug on the thermostat housing untill water starts coming out solid. Then start it up and run it on full heat on defrost till it is blowing warm out of defrost vents. Shut it off and make sure radiator level is ok once it cools down. Call me if you have any problems. djb

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-29-2008, 12:05 AM

well...After trying everything we finally replaced the radiator and then found out that the Head gasket is bad.. Anyone out there have a $300 to $500 car they want to sell???? I NEED something reliable? I know you get what you pay for, but a friend said if I can come up with a car to replace this one he will buy mine for $500. Let me know please or call me at 503-317-9277. I still need to pay for the radiator so $300 is really all I can afford! I checked out Craig's list and thats all junk with a capital J!!! Oh well My Angel is out there somewhere!!!! Thanks for all the support and help..Curt

CATCH AND EAT · 04-29-2008, 06:41 AM

A pressure test may have saved you money on this one. Sorry for the stroke of bad luck.

FISHFUL THINKN · 04-29-2008, 05:59 PM

thanks anyway!