Use of Four Wheelers to Hunt

Imperial Bull · 04-10-2008, 09:20 AM

Just wondered how many people favor (or don't favor) the use of four wheelers to hunt with and for what reason?

PIR8 Hook · 04-10-2008, 10:22 AM

I favor one for packing out the game...BUT I'll bet I get flamed for that...sorry But I hope you don't have knees as bad as mine.

WiskeyJaR · 04-10-2008, 10:25 AM

I agree, they are good for packing out game, or packing in camp for that matter, but should be left at camp when hunting.

just me

WiskeyJaR

ehunter · 04-10-2008, 10:34 AM

This is a very sore subject on Ifish and if you search the history on here there is a lot of strong feelings both pro and con. Thread very carefully here

I am opposed to them period. I think if they were kept on the roads where they are supposed to be then fine. I have had too many personal problems with knuckleheads riding where they were not supposed to be.:lurk:

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehunter

This is a very sore subject on Ifish and if you search the history on here there is a lot of strong feelings both pro and con. Thread very carefully here

I am opposed to them period. I think if they were kept on the roads where they are supposed to be then fine. I have had too many personal problems with knuckleheads riding where they were not supposed to be.:lurk:

Imperial Bull · 04-10-2008, 11:13 AM

You are right ehunter, this is probably too sore a subject and I should not have posted it. I apologize. I am strongly against them and was just hoping I could learn some positive aspects of them so I'm not stereotyping all of those that use them. Again my apologies.

Joe · 04-10-2008, 11:38 AM

My wife and I were riding the horses on some private timber land (they allow hike in and horse use) the other evening and a couple kids came hauling tail around the corner and would have hit us had I not heard them and yelled at the wife to get off the road! She waved at them to stop but of course they just blew by. I called the state police and they call that criminal trespass and the timber company will prosecute. There are 3 ATV trails cut into this area and the timber company does not want that period! I recognized the kid I just haven't tracked him down yet to get a name....

Obviously the guys that support ATV's here and use them ethically wouldn't do that sort of thing but the fact is more often than not (or at least way to often) they are used illegally. This is just one more way hunters give themselves a bad name.

OutTrolling (ot) · 04-10-2008, 11:51 AM

I would favor some "limited use" as suggested. I, too, have some health problems. Bad hips and can't hardly walk around the block anymore. As a result, I haven't been able to go to my old hunting grounds due to the walk required. Haven't hunted for the past three years and I really miss it. I would like to be able to use it to get to my hunting area, park it and post for the day and be able to get back out and if need be, use it to haul out some game. If I were able to walk in and got something, I couldn't pack it out. I know there are some who are adamantly against it. I just hope your health holds up to allow you to keep getting in to where you like to go.

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutTrolling (ot)

I would favor some "limited use" as suggested. I, too, have some health problems. Bad hips and can't hardly walk around the block anymore. As a result, I haven't been able to go to my old hunting grounds due to the walk required. Haven't hunted for the past three years and I really miss it. I would like to be able to use it to get to my hunting area, park it and post for the day and be able to get back out and if need be, use it to haul out some game. If I were able to walk in and got something, I couldn't pack it out. I know there are some who are adamantly against it. I just hope your health holds up to allow you to keep getting in to where you like to go.

No offense, but maybe a handicap placard or some other measure could be utilized in the "limited sense" you reference. The problem is, if you open it up for people like yourself who appear to genuinely benefit from an ATV and would use it responsibly, you open it up to the irresponsible riders as well. Thus, some means of allowing a certain class of riders (handicapped or elderly) would be reasonable...but even then, I bet the abuse would be there. Look at handicap parking at the grocery store....

CombinationLicense · 04-10-2008, 12:11 PM

Quads are tools just like a rifle or a bow and aren't inherently good or bad. The sole responsibility for proper use rests on the person using the tool and like rifles or bows, it can be used for good or bad. There are very valid reasons for the use of OHV's in approved areas and there are places where they should NEVER go. It's as simple as that and it boils down to personal responsibility and strong enforcement policies.

"CL"

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CombinationLicense

Quads are tools just like a rifle or a bow and aren't inherently good or bad. The sole responsibility for proper use rests on the person using the tool and like rifles or bows, it can be used for good or bad. There are very valid reasons for the use of OHV's in approved areas and there are places where they should NEVER go. It's as simple as that and it boils down to personal responsibility and strong enforcement policies.

"CL"

I think we're all pretty much in agreement here, but an ATV isn't a tool like a gun or bow. Guns and bows are necessary for us to hunt (unless you're good with rocks or spears) while ATVs are an "elective" tool. That would be like condoning responsible use of a helicopter for elk hunting if it was legal. I'm not trying to stir the pot..just making a point.
And combination license is dead on with the personal responsibility and enforcement...we just have neither in this day and age.

CombinationLicense · 04-10-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutdoorBum

I think we're all pretty much in agreement here, but an ATV isn't a tool like a gun or bow. Guns and bows are necessary for us to hunt (unless you're good with rocks or spears) while ATVs are an "elective" tool. That would be like condoning responsible use of a helicopter for elk hunting if it was legal. I'm not trying to stir the pot..just making a point.
And combination license is dead on with the personal responsibility and enforcement...we just have neither in this day and age.

How "elective" are they for people with disabilities that limit their physical capabilities? I agree that for most of us, OHV's are a "luxury" item but for some people access must by obtained through the use of some conveyance (bike, horse, OHV, etc...) or they don't go hunting anymore. Heck, it's not like many of us can walk out our back door to go hunting. I regularly drive 100-150 miles (or farther) to hunt upland birds, 150-200 miles to hunt turkeys or 300 miles to hunt deer and elk. It's all about getting to where our prey is and driving rig on the highway isn't so different from riding a horse or quad to LEGALLY pursue our favorite pastime.

"CL"

lor · 04-10-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperial Bull

Just wondered how many people favor (or don't favor) the use of four wheelers to hunt with and for what reason?

If its a legal road to drive a car or truck down, then a four wheeler should be allowed. Looking at $4/gallon gas, we used them as people movers between camp and hunting spots.

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CombinationLicense

How "elective" are they for people with disabilities that limit their physical capabilities? I agree that for most of us, OHV's are a "luxury" item but for some people access must by obtained through the use of some conveyance (bike, horse, OHV, etc...) or they don't go hunting anymore. Heck, it's not like many of us can walk out our back door to go hunting. I regularly drive 100-150 miles (or farther) to hunt upland birds, 150-200 miles to hunt turkeys or 300 miles to hunt deer and elk. It's all about getting to where our prey is and driving rig on the highway isn't so different from riding a horse or quad to LEGALLY pursue our favorite pastime.

"CL"

I agree, and as I stated earlier, I'm in favor of use for people with disabilities. But I think there has to be separation of highway driving which is like commuting to our hunting spot, and method of transport once inside the hunting area. Motorized transport is the biggest issue because of lack of "personal responsibility and enforcement."
I don't have a beef with people that stick to designated trails and ride responsibly. And I am not saying my personal observations are universal, but 90% of the people I see on quads are riding where they shouldn't be and ruining it for everyone. That's the crux of the matter here, not driving on the highway to get somewhere...everyone does that.

CombinationLicense · 04-10-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutdoorBum

I agree, and as I stated earlier, I'm in favor of use for people with disabilities. But I think there has to be separation of highway driving which is like commuting to our hunting spot, and method of transport once inside the hunting area. Motorized transport is the biggest issue because of lack of "personal responsibility and enforcement."
I don't have a beef with people that stick to designated trails and ride responsibly. And I am not saying my personal observations are universal, but 90% of the people I see on quads are riding where they shouldn't be and ruining it for everyone. That's the crux of the matter here, not driving on the highway to get somewhere...everyone does that.

For the record, I don't own an OHV and have seen LOTS of abuse/damage by OHV operators. However, I advocate for their LAWFUL use in APPROVED AREAS because it seems like a fair and equitable utilization of Oregon's resources. It drives me nuts that in our society, it's commonplace to blame the inanimate object rather than the person operating it.

The point about driving to a hunting area is valid in that how much hunting would you do if you couldn't commute there? That's how people with disabilities feel about access. I'm not saying that all areas should be open to OHV use, but there should be certain areas and/or times where we can accommodate their needs.

That being said, maybe we could liken OHV's more to rifle scopes and bow sights/releases. Those are certainly "elective" tools that enhance the participant's enjoyment of the sport and increase their chance of success.

"CL"

Limbhanger · 04-10-2008, 01:21 PM

Hey, wheres the dead horse gettin a whippin icon.......

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 01:32 PM

You're losing me on the driving thing because I've never said we shouldn't drive a vehicle to our hunting/fishing area...the issue on the thread is OHV use. Driving a car/truck on a legal road is not the issue of the thread, its OHV use. And I've said twice now that I SUPPORT OHV use for the disabled/elderly. I support legal OHV use as well...can't say it much planer than that.

What I'm struggling with is the misuse of the OHV, and you bring up a perfectly valid point about the inanimate object being the culprit. You're right, it has become just that...but I think its out of frustration that I go after them (the machine) because relying on the operators to be responsible is just not working, as you attested to as well.

I've seen misuse (as I'm sure you have) of people driving trucks up embankments and streambeds, and no, I don't think trucks should be banned for all of the reasons you and I have discussed. Nor should OHV's be banned...but it seems like the abuse is much more rampant due to the nature of the machine and its ability to maneuver in areas that trucks cannot. Hence, I attack the machine....

For the record CL, I'm struggling with it because I'm obviously pro-gun and get mad at people who blame the firearm and not the shooter when a tragedy occurs. But the OHV thing, at least in my neck of the woods, is like a cancer....imagine 90% of gun owners committing gun crimes!! As I've said, it seems like 90% of OHV owners are acting irresponsibly...what are we to do?

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 01:38 PM

That being said, maybe we could liken OHV's more to rifle scopes and bow sights/releases. Those are certainly "elective" tools that enhance the participant's enjoyment of the sport and increase their chance of success.

"CL"[/quote]

I haven't seen a rifle scope or bow sight/release tear up the non-trailed terrain yet....

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 01:41 PM

For all of the responsible ATV owners out there, I want to apologize because I really seem to be lashing out...its just frustration, and I'm sure the 90% irresponsible stat I made up isn't even close

CombinationLicense · 04-10-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutdoorBum

For all of the responsible ATV owners out there, I want to apologize because I really seem to be lashing out...its just frustration, and I'm sure the 90% irresponsible stat I made up isn't even close

Sorry if you took my post the wrong way OutdoorBum - I was trying to agree with you but want you to see my point about transportation. Most everyone has to get to where they hunt somehow and it doesn't really matter if it's the first 200 miles or the last 2 miles - if we don't get there, we don't hunt! I'm sure we agree more than disagree on this issue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limbhanger

Hey, wheres the dead horse gettin a whippin icon.......

"CL"

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 01:52 PM

Thanks a lot CL...you've worn me out so much I'm ready for....

If i just join a sealion thread I'll get my wolf/ohv/sealion merit badge

loper · 04-10-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutdoorBum

As I've said, it seems like 90% of OHV owners are acting irresponsibly...what are we to do?

Videotape, GPS coordinates, cell phone cameras are all tools that can be used to document damage and help with enforcement activities

OHA started the Natural Resources Reward Program to address this particular issue. It is quite similar to the Turn In Poachers (TIP) program.

Our hunting opportunities (or lack thereof) are jeopardized by the irresponsible use of a tool. While it may not seem that poaching equates to resource damage, if both have the end result of limiting or denying hunter access to particular areas, shouldn't law-abiding hunters be outraged at both equally?

bigd · 04-10-2008, 02:24 PM

Lock all spur roads,,, lock the gates...............
and no matter what rules there are, idoits will always be idoits ............

because the rules just don't pertain to them, only you.

ghost grizzly · 04-10-2008, 02:36 PM

The ORV is a mystical "tool", "appliance" or whatever.

I have never seen a machine that can turn the most well educated and intelligent of the human species into total dipstick idiots at the turn of a throttle.

It must be black magic!!

It's not the tool fault but it's the rider???

OK if they are doing the dipstick stuff then confiscate the vehicle to pay for the repairs and fine them and then take away a few years of hunting and fishing priveliges. That might take some of the magic out of it.

HuntnCoug · 04-10-2008, 02:44 PM

I dont have a problem with the use of ATVS in designated off road areas. These areas are normally void of game and places that I do not like to visit let alone hunt. I do however have an extreme problem with people using them illegally. I take my dog and my mountain bike down this gated road every evening. There are signs posted everywhere that ATVS arent allowed, people dont listen. I have been nearly run over on several occasions.

As for disabled people using them, I think their are other options. For example in WA state if you get a disability permit you can get keys to gates and are allowed to hunt from your vehicle. I dont think it would be fair to allow someone to ride ATVS all over hell and gone, making deer more skittish, pushing them even farther out of the way, and generally making hunting harder for everyone else.

Duckwheat · 04-10-2008, 03:01 PM

No matter how noble the first guy to ride and pack out his kill or get a handicapped hunter into his old hunting grounds. It is the horde that comes after. If you cant carry it out on your back, dont hunt there.

If there is a set of tracks it must be a trail mentality.

I don't hunt where I did in my twenties, I dont expect to hunt in my seventies where I am hunting now. That is just reality

This is beating a dead horse to death. I don't think anyone is going to change anyones mind on the topic.

I do think they will be the single largest issue for losing access to public lands that we will face.

DW

OutTrolling (ot) · 04-10-2008, 03:10 PM

I think I can agree with the comments that have been posted -- all seem reasonable to me. I'd just like to see "some" leniency in some cases.

I had to use Weyerhauser roads to get to the BLM area I hunted. I called W/H and told them I'd give them a copy of my license or if they just wanted my license number, I'd give them that. They then would give me a letter stating that I had permission to use particular roads in a given area. They would then know who was using "with permission" their areas -- and if I got stopped for questioning, I'd have proof of their permission. Their response was "company policy only permits licensed vehicles to have use of our roads." I tried to explain that I wasn't looking to offroad. Just get to a specific area using their road. We're Sorry. Can't let you do it.

I also called the state who said mainline roads only. No offroading. But at least I could use the main roads. That was fine with me.

I called BLM. They said they didn't care where I went as long as I didn't burn the place down. Again, it wasn't just to go anywhere, make trails and tear up the place. Just get into a specific area and hunt for a few days out of the year. So frustrating !!!

Maybe buying a hunting ATV permit for a given season ??? I don't have the answer but I'd sure like to hunt again.

NeverGuess · 04-10-2008, 05:20 PM

Legal use on approved roads & OHV approved trails fine.

Thread carefully is right!

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duckwheat

No matter how noble the first guy to ride and pack out his kill or get a handicapped hunter into his old hunting grounds. It is the horde that comes after. If you cant carry it out on your back, dont hunt there.

If there is a set of tracks it must be a trail mentality.

I don't hunt where I did in my twenties, I dont expect to hunt in my seventies where I am hunting now. That is just reality

This is beating a dead horse to death. I don't think anyone is going to change anyones mind on the topic.

I do think they will be the single largest issue for losing access to public lands that we will face.

DW

Excellent post...I agree totally. And for HuntnCoug...the key thing is awful. Last elk season there was a disabled person with a key and a party of seven Non-disabled guys hunting with him. What a joke! No enforcement thus, no obedience to the law. It seems even reason has been left in the wind to twist, so that we either totally disallow OHV's (even for the disabled) or keep current laws going and hope people wise up. Either you police the heck out of it or you over compensate and disallow it completely. As DW said, when I'm seventy I certainly don't expect wheelchair ramps in wilderness areas...gettin' old sucks but thats the way it goes...and i'm goin' there fast!

OutdoorBum · 04-10-2008, 10:29 PM

Oh crud....I got sucked back into this thing....must....resist....darkside...

lor · 04-10-2008, 10:43 PM

Just curious, for all the ATV haters.
Please tell me what you guys complained about before quads.
I have a hard time believing there was nothing to gripe about back then.

bigd · 04-10-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lor

Just curious, for all the ATV haters.
Please tell me what you guys complained about before quads.
I have a hard time believing there was nothing to gripe about back then.

To many roads being cut into great hunting areas bringing all the road hunters out of the closet,,, would be my guess...

GO-FASTER · 04-10-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lor

If its a legal road to drive a car or truck down, then a four wheeler should be allowed. Looking at $4/gallon gas, we used them as people movers between camp and hunting spots.

That should sum it up.
I agree

Dave Smith · 04-11-2008, 04:40 AM

What I feel sorry for is the guys like Lor and many others that use them legally and responsibly, and then ATV's in general get a bad rap because of the hordes of BONEHEADS that drive around closed gates and go tearing up the ground and breaking the silence of the otherwise peaceful outdoors in places they are not supposed to be. Enforcement is almost non-existent. I love the idea of an ATV enabling someone to hunt who is otherwise unable, but the reality is, unfortunately, that some of them are used by guys who are just plain lazy.
That's what's cool about the upper Clack- you couldn't ride an ATV throught the woods if you tried (and they try- he he).

Santiam338 · 04-11-2008, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limbhanger

Hey, wheres the dead horse gettin a whippin icon.......

ehunter · 04-11-2008, 11:58 AM

Yep then came the quads

Before that things were just peachy

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd

To many roads being cut into great hunting areas bringing all the road hunters out of the closet,,, would be my guess...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lor

Just curious, for all the ATV haters.
Please tell me what you guys complained about before quads.
I have a hard time believing there was nothing to gripe about back then.

HuntnCoug · 04-11-2008, 04:00 PM

My entire problem with all of this is that on too many occasions I have spent hours hiking into a place that is not accesable by vehicle only to have a hunter on an ATV come riding by. I spend a lot of time making sure I am in shape, and able to hunt all the remote spots I like to hunt. At this point in my life I am capable of doing this but when I get older I plan on changing my hunting style.

Lucky one · 04-11-2008, 04:44 PM

I've got little problem with someone using a four wheeler for retreival. I hate finding a nice secluded spot out in the woods only to have a convoy of "hunters" parade on by out in the middle of nowhere.

Limbhanger · 04-11-2008, 07:06 PM

Rank Amateur · 04-11-2008, 08:37 PM

That's kind of a sissy horse beater Chad!!

baltz526 · 04-12-2008, 06:54 AM

i think every one should be able to drive 150mph on the freeway with no insurance or license plates. THIS is what i think the illegal atv/ohv riders must feel. i see no difference between riding in wilderness study areas all day, off the legal access roads and driving on the highway in an irresponsable manner. or how about this, TEAR IT UP, NO ONE IS WATCHING. i know this is what go's through the mind of atv/ohv riders. just walk in the millican ohv riding area and see the damage they do in the off trail, no riding areas. not a care in the world about following the rules, WHO US, we where just out riding. beating this subject is no way near done, untill changes are made in the actions of the atv/ohv riders.

Joe Schwab · 04-12-2008, 09:51 AM

Well said Baltz! There are many responsible inherently good activities that have been curtailed due to the actions of the few irresponsible. In talking to some of these guys, you point out the damage and they act like, "well I saw the trails and I thought it was OK. I asked one if he saw tracks leading across his neighbors lawn, would he follow those also? Well of course not. That's just common sense!

Most are just unthinking blase' riders who should know better but say they don't. OHA has supported education and enforcement of off road use more than any organization I can think of. But there's more to be done.

Dog hunting would still be legal had it not been for some very irresponsible hunters who could not keep from bending the rules and videotaping their actions for the whole world to see.

OutTrolling (ot) · 04-12-2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltz526

i think every one should be able to drive 150mph on the freeway with no insurance or license plates. THIS is what i think the illegal atv/ohv riders must feel. i see no difference between riding in wilderness study areas all day, off the legal access roads and driving on the highway in an irresponsable manner. or how about this, TEAR IT UP, NO ONE IS WATCHING. i know this is what go's through the mind of atv/ohv riders. just walk in the millican ohv riding area and see the damage they do in the off trail, no riding areas. not a care in the world about following the rules, WHO US, we where just out riding. beating this subject is no way near done, untill changes are made in the actions of the atv/ohv riders.

I agree Baltz. And as HuntnCoug stated above "but when I get older I plan on changing my hunting style." That is where I'm at now. Being closer to 70 than 60, I've already had to change hunting places to accomodate for the aches and pains of having dropped down into too many canyons and climbed back out even before I had to quit hunting. Just out of curiosity HuntnCoug, how much game have you brought home having shot it from a main road. I don't think I've ever seen anything to shoot from the road. Believe me, the horse isn't dead yet. Maybe on this thread as I'll not post any more about it but even when you start getting up in years, you still have to get to where the game is located. Nuff said.

baltz526 · 04-12-2008, 03:21 PM

i see no problem gaining access to good hunting from legal use of motorized vehicals. once you can not do the heavy lifting yourself, it is time to have others assist you. a fact of life, becoming older dosn't give anyone the special privledge of illegal actions. getting older should mean you have youthfull support, you are willing to mentor. to gain the assistance you need to spend time in the field. we all are a selfish bunch, giveme giveme giveme, take take take this is very evident when you look at the state of our sportsmen

Cliff D. · 04-12-2008, 06:24 PM

Wondered how long it was going to take for you to jump in Baltz, but i agree. It seems like the majority of quad users abuse the privilege. And just so people don't think i'm hate'in on them i do own one.

huntercgr · 04-12-2008, 07:02 PM

I own one, and use it responsibly. I mainly bought it for when I go elk hunting in Colo. The roads there are not like they are here. Places I need to start hiking into I would never take my truck to get there.

And there are some places here that are the same. And now that diesel is getting out of reach, I will be riding it more, where it is legal. I will call OSP when I see someone ruining hunting grounds by riding illegally. I have his number.

And I have already warned him, (OSP) of a guy that blantantly rides into a canyon that is off limits, and will try to catch him next year. So if you're riding illegally in the Heppner unit, watch out.

Old Coot · 04-12-2008, 08:41 PM

(Don't favor) In fact I despise the things and most of their users. Nothing quite so refreshing to the soul as being on stand in a closed road area listening to ATV'rs blatting up and down every road, track, elk trail and crekbed. Every day of the season, every year any more.

nakoa · 04-13-2008, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehunter

This is a very sore subject on Ifish and if you search the history on here there is a lot of strong feelings both pro and con. Thread very carefully here

I am opposed to them period. I think if they were kept on the roads where they are supposed to be then fine. I have had too many personal problems with knuckleheads riding where they were not supposed to be.:lurk:

49erjimmy · 04-13-2008, 07:32 AM

It all boils down to enforcement. The Forest Service, BLM, and even private timber companies post all kinds of rules and regulations and close roads and then do not properly enforce those regulations. So you have the law abiding good guys suffering one way or another and the bad guys do what they want anyway!

Old Goat · 04-13-2008, 09:20 AM

We need to figure out a way to enforce illegal offroad use. Seems like we could pay for enforcement via fines if there was any level of urgency put on the issue. I think that the OHA is the only current vehicle to push legislation through the state. If we can take cars from "John's" in prostitution stings, why cant we take ATV's from illegal riders? We could start a new type of hunting...spike strips traps and see how many ATV's we could bag miles from the main road. Let them have fun getting them out of the woods.

gottafish · 04-13-2008, 12:56 PM

Quads + Hunting =

baltz526 · 04-13-2008, 01:14 PM

option one: mandatory helicopter extraction from roadless areas, if atv is found over 500 feet from legal access. option two: disassemble and owner packs parts out on back. option three: owner hires packing company to disassemble and pack parts out on back or pack animal.

after extraction owner of atv pays all expenses to repair damage caused by atv in out of bounds area. you will notice i wrote OWNER OF ATV. i mean owner in the broadest possible terms.. insurance should be required, readable license plate should be federally mandated.

Cliff D. · 04-13-2008, 04:02 PM

All kidding aside, you might be on to something Richard.

GO-FASTER · 04-13-2008, 04:14 PM

Or you could just Hang them after you catch them.

You Anti - Quad People should work on how to lower our $$ Gas Prices $$

baltz526 · 04-13-2008, 04:44 PM

you need them talking to spread the education.

scottishsetter · 04-13-2008, 05:18 PM

Anyone caught in a Green road closure area should automaticly lose $2500;their rifles; their vehicle; and 10 years of hunting privileges for anyone in the vehicle. NO LESS...