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Old 04-10-2008, 07:09 AM   #1
sduyck
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Default ethanol free gas in washington state

Anyone know if I can buy ethanol free gas in Washington state and where??

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Old 04-10-2008, 08:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

The ethanol is here as well!
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Old 04-10-2008, 12:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

I am not uptodate about ethanol mix with gasoline requirement. I thought that the mixture only in effect for certain period of the year. Is it a requirement year round now for the ethanol/gas mixture for all gas dispenser stations?
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Old 04-10-2008, 02:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

Good question.... Anybody got any good answers?

And what does ethanol do to 4 stroke marine engines?
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Old 04-12-2008, 04:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthrea...82#post1960882
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Old 04-12-2008, 09:58 AM   #6
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

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I am not uptodate about ethanol mix with gasoline requirement. I thought that the mixture only in effect for certain period of the year. Is it a requirement year round now for the ethanol/gas mixture for all gas dispenser stations?
Pour a tall, cold one. Then search "ethanol". Have fun.
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Old 04-16-2008, 08:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

Snappys Gas & Groceries. 10512 Southeast Mill Plain Boulevard Vancouver, Washington, 98664 Phone: (360)253-8289
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

Here is what ethanol in the gas can do: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,2271802.story

Hope the ethanol law going into affect in WA requires a label on the pump, the CA law does not and they have 5% in ALL of their gas now. Neither WA or CA have an exemption for watercraft in their law.
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Old 04-23-2008, 08:49 AM   #9
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

Why worrie? It's been in the fuel for years and years! If you have a old 2 cycle just add a small amount more of 2 cycle oil to the fuel and stop worrying everyone! ALL modern car and boat engines are designed to burn ethanol.The newspaper article was related to fiberglass fuel tanks. What kind of idiot uses fiberglass to store gas? Let's stop all the rumors and controversy and just get to fishing and driving! OK?
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

Ethanol is hard on engines, plus it's terrible on gas mileage. I've heard multiple mechanics say it can ruin your engine.

I did a quick search and this came up, seems interesting

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_...dvantages.html

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Why worrie? It's been in the fuel for years and years! If you have a old 2 cycle just add a small amount more of 2 cycle oil to the fuel and stop worrying everyone! ALL modern car and boat engines are designed to burn ethanol.The newspaper article was related to fiberglass fuel tanks. What kind of idiot uses fiberglass to store gas? Let's stop all the rumors and controversy and just get to fishing and driving! OK?
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:16 PM   #11
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Europe has used ethanol in their gas for 50 years. Ya know what, if it's OK for Mercedes and BMW I think it will burn just fine in our American garbage. Ethanol is here to stay and that's a fact. GET USED TO IT FOLKS. Stop believing the urban myths and rumors and get on with our lives. Does it get less mileage than gasoline. Yes! Does it harm your engine? Absolutely not! I have worked in the Petroleum industry for 35 years. I have hauled it,burnt it,received and tested it at storage facility's. Frankly, I don't care if it's in the fuel or not. It doesn't affect my paycheck one way or the other. I do wish that people would just use common sense about controversial subjects. Are there a few horror stories about ethanol? Yes. Does that mean that we should believe them all? NO. Once again, if Europe has been using it for 50 years I think we are going to be just fine with it.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

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Why worrie? It's been in the fuel for years and years! If you have a old 2 cycle just add a small amount more of 2 cycle oil to the fuel and stop worrying everyone! ALL modern car and boat engines are designed to burn ethanol.The newspaper article was related to fiberglass fuel tanks. What kind of idiot uses fiberglass to store gas? Let's stop all the rumors and controversy and just get to fishing and driving! OK?
The idiots who own gas stations have fiberglass tanks, as do the idiots with big fiberglass boats.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:56 PM   #13
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Good point. So if that is true,why aren't the tanks at gas stations "melting". The answer is that they are not being damaged by ethanol in the fuel. This supports my original point that this is all a bunch of hype. So I will concede that people aren't idiots for using fiberglass to store gasoline. However, I still believe we need to use common sense and get off the "hype wagon" relating to ethanol.
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:47 AM   #14
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Good point. So if that is true,why aren't the tanks at gas stations "melting". The answer is that they are not being damaged by ethanol in the fuel. This supports my original point that this is all a bunch of hype. So I will concede that people aren't idiots for using fiberglass to store gasoline. However, I still believe we need to use common sense and get off the "hype wagon" relating to ethanol.
The only "hype wagon" I see on this thread is your hype that ethanol only causes minor problems, we should just get over it and it is just fine that ethanol is jammed down our throats using our tax money while creating government sanctioned monopolies for ethanol companies, and you have no answers for the people that do have problems.

There is an answer to the question about why ethanol damages fiberglass fuel tanks in boats but not the new fiberglass tanks used in gas stations. The fiberglass fuel tanks in older boats use a plain fiberglass resin. They were built at a time when there was no ethanol in our gasoline, there was no thought that it would ever be a problem. These boats were made primarily before 1980+- and at the time it made sense. Molded fiberglass hulls were the new rage, why not just mold the tank with the hull.

Modern fiberglass gasoline storage tanks are made with epoxy resin which is impervious to ethanol.

I also don't buy your argument that ethanol is here to stay and we should accept it. So far it hasn't proven to be an advantage, either economically or for air quality. So far it can only be put in our gasoline by government edict by granting tax credits to make it economical. And if the fuel computer in your car can't properly adjust for the increase oxygenate it senses, then your mileage can really suffer. Apparently this happens quite regularly as there are numerous reports of mileage decreases greater than 10%, at which point that car is burning more gasoline than it was before the mandatory E10 was invoked. There have been so many contradictory studies about whether it improves air quality as to be useless information and in fact some studies show that at levels higher than E10 in large urban areas smog will be much worse.

I would like to see the facts that Europe has been using ethanol widely for 50 years. And at what level? I know for a fact that Bombardier which makes the Rotax engines warrants their engines at up to the 5% level and believes that they will work properly at the 10% level but was unable to test it because there was no E10 in Europe. The German government is dropping their push to get to E10 as outlined here: http://www.silobreaker.com/DocumentR...em=5_842327060 and the whole of the EU is debating whether to drop the whole biofuels push because of the economic dislocation of mandatory programs.

I'll believe that ethanol is viable when government and people like you stop telling me I have to have it and lets the market decide.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:36 PM   #15
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in Washington state

Costco gas in Vancouver is ethanol-free, or so they told me anyway.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:30 PM   #16
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Costco gas in Vancouver is ethanol-free, or so they told me anyway.
If there was no sticker on the pump it should be E0, because Washington law requires a notice on the pump and I would think Costco would know the law.
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:27 PM   #17
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Europe has used ethanol in their gas for 50 years. Ya know what, if it's OK for Mercedes and BMW I think it will burn just fine in our American garbage. Ethanol is here to stay and that's a fact. GET USED TO IT FOLKS. Stop believing the urban myths and rumors and get on with our lives. Does it get less mileage than gasoline. Yes! Does it harm your engine? Absolutely not! I have worked in the Petroleum industry for 35 years. I have hauled it,burnt it,received and tested it at storage facility's. Frankly, I don't care if it's in the fuel or not. It doesn't affect my paycheck one way or the other. I do wish that people would just use common sense about controversial subjects. Are there a few horror stories about ethanol? Yes. Does that mean that we should believe them all? NO. Once again, if Europe has been using it for 50 years I think we are going to be just fine with it.

I dissagree.
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Old 08-28-2010, 07:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in Washington state

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Originally Posted by bugs84 View Post
Europe has used ethanol in their gas for 50 years. Ya know what, if it's OK for Mercedes and BMW I think it will burn just fine in our American garbage. Ethanol is here to stay and that's a fact. GET USED TO IT FOLKS. Stop believing the urban myths and rumors and get on with our lives. Does it get less mileage than gasoline. Yes! Does it harm your engine? Absolutely not! I have worked in the Petroleum industry for 35 years. I have hauled it,burnt it,received and tested it at storage facility's. Frankly, I don't care if it's in the fuel or not. It doesn't affect my paycheck one way or the other. I do wish that people would just use common sense about controversial subjects. Are there a few horror stories about ethanol? Yes. Does that mean that we should believe them all? NO. Once again, if Europe has been using it for 50 years I think we are going to be just fine with it.
I disagree
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

Wilcox&Flegel advertises it at their Pacific Pride cardlock station on Industrial Way in Longview.
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:14 PM   #20
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

cfn in kelso and salmon creek run E0 as well
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Old 08-28-2010, 09:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

cenex in Chehalis is e0 to.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:35 PM   #22
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Chelatchie praire's gas station also advertises No ethanol
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:56 PM   #23
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bugs84 is on the money.

You have been burning E10 in your cars and trucks for years, and somehow, magically, they are immune to ethanol issues? Now you put it in your boat and have a problem, and it's instantly E10's fault? Give me a break.

Ethanol does absorb water, I won't argue that. In order for water to be absorbed in great quantities, it has to be available in great quantities. Your half empty boat gas tank sitting next to your house doesn't count, and no, the expansion of the tank during a warm day won't suck in a gallon of water that the E10 is just waiting to fill your fuel filter with.

I have run on and off road vehicles on E85 and E98 (85 and 98% ethanol). Water in fuel has NEVER been an issue, and we store those fuels for extended periods of time (not to mention the fuel is almost completely ethanol, compared to pump gas being a mere 10%). It's not a coincidence that we have never been an issue.

Ethanol won't ruin an engine. Any gasoline engine on the face of planet earth will run on 100% ethanol with the correct adjustments made (it takes more ethanol than gasoline to run an engine). The worst that will happen is it can dry out fuel lines of older vehicles.

That said, ethanol in gasoline is not a good thing. Corn prices go up, food prices go up, among all the other issues (and phantom issues) that go along with it. I use it for it's high octane properties, simple as that. There are alternatives (leaded fuel), but it is much more expensive to run.
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:23 AM   #24
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Default Re: ethanol free gas in washington state

I don't worry about ethanol messing up my boat motor. Why? I've always burned premium unleaded in boat - at least in MT, premium (91 octane) is always ethanol-free.
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Old 08-29-2010, 06:14 AM   #25
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ethanol will raise hell in diaphragm type carburetors that are on a lot of 2 stroke power equipment(mainly primer-type carbs that are on brush cutters, blowers etc), as well as swell up rubber fuel lines. it does have some corrosive properties if you let it sit in the tank a long time as well.

however, as long as your engine is jetted or adjusted properly, i can't see it causing too many outboard motor issues. carbureted outboards tend to have float carbs(like a lawnmower) which tend not to have many rubber parts. if you've got a gummed-up fuel system, the ethanol can cause that stuff to break loose and plug up your jets, since it's an excellent solvent.

as long as you're diligent about keeping water out of your fuel and don't let it sit for extended periods of time with gas in it, i think you'll be alright. i've been running cheap gas(usually with ethanol) in it for years in my outboards with no ill effect.
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Old 08-29-2010, 08:27 AM   #26
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Fast Fuel in downtown Olympia has non-ethanol.........Mid grade 87.
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Old 08-29-2010, 08:28 AM   #27
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cenex in Chehalis is e0 to.



E0 also available at the Spirit Station in Kalama, just west of I-5, near RSG Sawmill.
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:07 AM   #28
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I believe the Port of Kalama pump at their boat launch also has non-ethanol.
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:09 AM   #29
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http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:37 AM   #30
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bugs84 is on the money.

You have been burning E10 in your cars and trucks for years, and somehow, magically, they are immune to ethanol issues? Now you put it in your boat and have a problem, and it's instantly E10's fault? Give me a break.

Ethanol does absorb water, I won't argue that. In order for water to be absorbed in great quantities, it has to be available in great quantities. Your half empty boat gas tank sitting next to your house doesn't count, and no, the expansion of the tank during a warm day won't suck in a gallon of water that the E10 is just waiting to fill your fuel filter with.

I have run on and off road vehicles on E85 and E98 (85 and 98% ethanol). Water in fuel has NEVER been an issue, and we store those fuels for extended periods of time (not to mention the fuel is almost completely ethanol, compared to pump gas being a mere 10%). It's not a coincidence that we have never been an issue.

Ethanol won't ruin an engine. Any gasoline engine on the face of planet earth will run on 100% ethanol with the correct adjustments made (it takes more ethanol than gasoline to run an engine). The worst that will happen is it can dry out fuel lines of older vehicles.

That said, ethanol in gasoline is not a good thing. Corn prices go up, food prices go up, among all the other issues (and phantom issues) that go along with it. I use it for it's high octane properties, simple as that. There are alternatives (leaded fuel), but it is much more expensive to run.

i hate to say this... but i think you and bugs are far from correct my friend. sorry.
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:20 PM   #31
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Care to back that up with anything? Please, pick apart my post and tell me where I'm wrong.
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:58 PM   #32
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my fathers 1800.00 dollar mechanic bil will dispute your comment.

Water molecules combine with petroleum (gas) in your gas fuel tank and lines...
Ethanol has an increased risk of fuel water-contamination due to ability to absorb H20.
(Ethanol attracts and absorbs moisture from the air). Vapor lock and fuel starvation can occur.


The gasoline you pump in your tank may be dry, but due to condensation (from humidity, temperature, etc.) water does exist in your tank. Since water is insoluble in gasoline, it sinks to the bottom of your tank -
As long as it remains below the level of your fuel pickup tube it will not affect your engine. The problem is water is soluble in ethanol and will travel thru your engine fuel system.


A water/ethanol mixture, being heavier than gas, will sink to the bottom of the gas tank, leaving a lower octane gas on top. This low octane gas (lean fuel) can cause performance issues with 4-stroke engines, and can cause damage to 2-stroke engines. High levels of ethanol can dissolve, deteriorate and breakdown solid material, including rubber, plastic, fiberglass and even aluminum and steel.


Ethanol will also cleanse and release corrosive matter (gunk), varnish and rust, which will travel through the engine and clog fuel filters, carburetor jets and injectors. In many outboard engines it will also contaminate the fuel present in your fuel tank.


Ethanol tends to dissolve certain resins, which can travel through the engine intake and coat intake valves, causing sticking and bent pushrods or worse. This has been well documented for boats equipped with certain fiberglass gas tanks, made before the early 1990's.


The more gunk (rust, sediment, dirt, etc.) collected in your outboard engine over the years, the more noticeable the cleansing effects of alcohol will be noticed.


Ethanol's solvent and cleansing abilities can lead to engine failure and expensive repairs.

Stalling, prematurely worn engine parts, rusting, clogging of fuel filters and carburetor jets, release of gunk and sludge throughout the engine, frequent water-contamination/phase separation of fuel, and eventually engine breakdowns and death.


Ethanol can cause a motor to run lean on fuel, due to water will not burn, which will take the place of fuel.
Vapor lock (fuel starvation) is common when using ethanol fuels.


Alcohol fuels are very prone to phase separation, when the weight of the ethanol and water will sink to the bottom of the fuel tank and get picked up by the motors fuel system. (Even small amounts of water can harm the fuel system).


The initial symptoms, (of using a higher than acceptable concentration of alcohol in fuel, is usually engine stalling when you demand acceleration (WOT).


You'll notice other performance issues, such as increased stalling, misfire, hesitation and difficulty maintaining boat speed during trolling.


The long term dangers of ethanol (and other alcohol-blended fuels) are many, including deterioration of parts (rubber, aluminum, fiberglass etc.), rusting, fuel system clogging, and other varied damage to engine parts and components. Older engines are more prone to ethanol alcohol damage.

Evinrude - http://www.evinrude-parts.com/boat_e...recaution.html


google is your best friend boss. im not calling you guys out, i've just been watching this issue for the past three years or so. after my dads 2008 yamaha needed almost two thousand dollars worth of repairs i became a believer that this stuff is not so good for marine based applications. my dad is very meticulous and anal about keeping his toys in ship-shape working order. very clean and organized. this boat has always had a fuel additive along with a stabilizer added durring fill up (yes the water/fuel sep. was checked and changed religiously) the problem was it was not enough of both to keep this from happening. a family friend of ours who own a marina says he is booked well into winter with people having issues steming from from this e10 garbage. like i said nothing personal, but i think there is a huge difference between an automobile running this stuff vs. an inboard/outboard.
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:05 PM   #33
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john-deere will also tell you when you purchase anything from them that if you use e10 or higher it will void your warranty. they advise *highly* against using it. why would that be? because they have a score to settle with corn farmers? i doubt it, i would imagine that they don't want to see their products back in the shop needing expensive repairs on something they sold 6 months ago.
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Old 08-30-2010, 05:51 AM   #34
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And the debate just keeps going on and on and on..... At some point in the very near future alcohol will be in ALL the gas. So let's all get used to it and deal with it. If your equipment can't handle it then then save your pennys and upgrade. And by the way, if John Deer invalidates their warranty because of alcohol don't buy their equipment! They must still be living in the stone age. Let's all stop chasing the dinosaur (alcohol free fuel) and move into the future......
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:32 AM   #35
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Longview on the truck bypass not sure the name of the fuel station.
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:51 AM   #36
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The debate will continue even after the ethanol fad dies.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:19 AM   #37
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My 25 hp '03 honda has carburators and is in the weather 365 days per year. Premuim + a strong dose Stabil marine is working pretty good this year. That plus a new generic Napa fuel filter. Rebuilding the carbs every year to get gunk out of the microscopic idle jets is not a good thing.

One problem is ethanol dissolves the plasticizier from the fuel tanks and lines. When the gas in the float bowls evaporate when the engine is not uses this plastizier gets left behind as varnish in your jets, plugs jets equal no go. This is beside the phase seperation and corrosion issues. My latest car is set up to run on 85% ethanol, I would much rather burn the corn squeezings there than in my outboard, the fuel is less likely to 'go flat' in the car.
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