Marine Reserve Mass Email

[Seelicious]

This was email my wife received...seems like a bunch of bs!

Hi ,

I just love the Oregon coast, with treasures like Cannon Beach and the Oregon Dunes, and sometimes I think of what it would be like to watch sea otters playing in the surf. But since our native sea otters were hunted out a century ago, we don't get that chance.

Fortunately the Oregon coast is still home to abundant wildlife, from whales to sea urchins. And the Ocean Policy Advisory Council can do something to protect our ocean for the future, but they need to hear from you. Join with us in calling for a network of marine reserves to keep our oceans thriving:

http://www.environmentoregon.org/action/preservation/marine-reserves?id4=ES

Our ocean faces serious challenges, with declining fish populations, invasive species, and loss of habitat as developers build along the coast.

We can do something about this. Oregon has a long legacy of protecting our coast with protected state parks and other on-shore areas. But we don't have similar protections for our ocean. Oregon is the only west-coast state with no fully protected areas off our coast.

Right now, we have a unique opportunity because the Ocean Policy Advisory Council (OPAC) is considering the idea of marine reserves -- protected areas in the ocean.

We know that marine reserves are a scientifically proven management tool to help restore the health of our ocean and protect it for future generations of Oregonians.

Let's send a message to OPAC by getting thousands of Oregonians to join us in e-mailing them and urging them to establish marine reserves off Oregon's
coast:

http://www.environmentoregon.org/action/preservation/marine-reserves?id4=ES

Thanks for standing up for Oregon.


Sincerely,

Jeremiah Baumann
Environment Oregon Advocate
JeremiahB@environmentoregon.org
http://www.environmentoregon.org

P.S. Thanks again for your support. Please feel free to share this e-mail with your family and friends.

[fyshndad]

Are you serious??

CCA is taking a look at MRs right now and they are ready to stand up for the sport fishers

CCA is against bogus science and lies
CCA would likely support MRs if the science showed a need but there is none
CCA would stand behind doing studies to get the science and would do what needs to be done strictly from the science the studies would reveal

[Seelicious]

I don't support the MR's...this is just a heads up.

[CATCH AND EAT]

We can actually use their form letter against them. I just did. By inserting the words not it changes the entire form letter. Plus you can add your Not good science and uninformed environmentalist stuff to it as well. I got it to go through that way

I also email Jerimiah and courteously let him know what I thought of his baloney emailer.

[Bucolic buffalo]

It was nice of him to provide a quick way to send a message to OPAC with the appropriate modifications. It took me about two minutes or less.

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by Seelicious

I don't support the MR's...this is just a heads up.

Bud I know you do not support MRs
My ? as to being serious was intended toward the writer
As I read it I kept expecting it to be signed by Bob Rees

[Seelicious]

Hi Bud,
Thanks so much for your note and thanks for taking a look at our email. I'm happy to answer your questions. I'm also cc:ing our policy associate, Nicole Forbes, who can answer even more detailed questions on this.


First, “a proven scientific tool”…what is the basis for this statement?
This is based on a lot of scientific studies done on marine reserves currently in existence. It's an impressively robust body of research, finding higher wildlife populations, more biodiversity, and higher biomass (meaning not just more total plants and animals but both more and bigger plants and animals). The best summaries of this research have been done by PISCO (which stands for Partnership for Interdisciplinary Studies of Coastal Oceans), and you can find their work on the web (or let us know and we can find a link for you).


Do you know how many marine protected areas we currently have in Oregon?
I don't have an exact number--we don't have fully protected reserves the way Washington and Oregon do, though we have areas with partial protection in lots of categories, where it's Whale Cove or the Rockfish Conservation Area (which is only partly in Oregon waters and mostly in federal waters).
Who will study the effects of any additional protected areas? Who will pay for this study?
We are proposing that state agencies, particularly the Department of Fish and Wildlife, be engaged and coordinating research, though much of the actual study would likely be done by scientists at universities, particularly since Oregon has some of the leading oceans researchers in the country. We are asking the state Legislature to fund this research and plan to lobby for this funding in the 2009 session.



Who will pay to enforce these changes you advocate?
One reason we're looking to engage the public, particularly in coastal communities, in supporting marine reserves and figuring out where they should best be established, is that we think an engaged and supportive local community will be critical to minimizing the need for enforcement, at least in the heavy-handed sense I think people usually think of "enforcement" taking. We plan to ask the Legislature to fund state agencies to do implementation and enforcement as well as the research work.


Have there been any studies done on our existing protected areas?
I'm not sure if studies have been done on the protected areas. There have been some studies done, outside Oregon I think, showing that partial protection in marine protected areas (which is all Oregon currently has) doesn't have the same strong positive effects that full protection in marine reserves would have, which is why we've focused on research on looking at what's been studied for marine reserves, which is the focus of what OPAC is currently working on.


Do you support the model of marine reserves used in California?
We haven't taken a specific position on California's model. I've heard most positive things about the reserves there being well-established and likely to provide strong conservation benefits (some of the studies I referred to above come from some of the older reserves in California, I think in the Channel Islands?), but I've heard conflicting reports about the process used for recent designations. Some people have told us that California did a good job working with local communities and others have told us that some communities felt like goal posts were moved.

I hope that's helpful. Let me or Nicole know if you have other questions,

Jeremiah

Jeremiah Baumann
Environment Oregon

[Freakwater]

Wow! He's clueless. Mr. Baumann inspires little confidence.

Freakwater

[Pilar]

De nial, a river in africa.

None of the studies on Marine reserves involve any habitat similar to Oregon's ocean. They forget to mention this. They also forget to mention the ultimate goal of this process. Undoing what Tom McCall did when he made Oregon's beaches public. Access to the commons by all Oregonians. We fishermen are Oregonians too and our beaches are not for sale to anyone.

No doubt Seely was targeted as a 'progressive'.

[KeyWest]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

We can actually use their form letter against them. I just did. By inserting the words not it changes the entire form letter. Plus you can add your Not good science and uninformed environmentalist stuff to it as well. I got it to go through that way

I also email Jerimiah and courteously let him know what I thought of his baloney emailer.

I did the same - but used a "scripting" tool - I can use this to send any number of responses rather quickly (thousands). Of course I would never use this tool maliciously

[Seelicious]

Originally Posted by Pilar

De nial, a river in africa.

None of the studies on Marine reserves involve any habitat similar to Oregon's ocean. They forget to mention this. They also forget to mention the ultimate goal of this process. Undoing what Tom McCall did when he made Oregon's beaches public. Access to the commons by all Oregonians. We fishermen are Oregonians too and our beaches are not for sale to anyone.

No doubt Seely was targeted as a 'progressive'.

You know it bro...they didn't realize she's a killer at sea!

[Nalu]

Sent to Jeremiah Bauman- Feel free to take any or all of this if you see fit...


My name is Mike Jespersen and I operate a small independent charter fishing company on
the Oregon Coast out of Depoe Bay, Oregon. My good friend forwarded your
original e-mail, as well as your reply to him.

First off, I would like to acknowledge that I appreciate your concerns and certainly
understand that environmental concerns regarding the state of the ocean off our Oregon
Coast is of utmost importance. The reason I am writing is to hopefully ask for your help
in understanding what is currently taking place with Marine Reserves in Oregon. I would
then ask for you to carefully consider your words and what you write in the future.

I have been involved in this process for some time. I have attended OPAC meetings, and
have attended the Oregon Sea-Grant Outreach meetings. I am familiar with people both
directly as part of OPAC as well as those at the ODF&W. I have done extensive research,
and am very well prepared with statistics and information regarding these issues. I am
NOT anti Marine Reserve, but I AM against implementation of areas as feel good measures
without understanding the how or why of what is taking place.

A couple of things in your e-mail, as well as response to should be addressed:
1.- "Oregon is the only west-coast state with
no fully protected areas off our coast." Your statement has been used by pro-MR groups
as fact when in truth it is not. You will find that currently the only state with fully
protected areas off the COAST is California. Marine Reserves located in Washington State
are located all withing the Puget Sound or Straight of Juan de Fuca. There is currently
NO RESERVES off of the coast of Washington. The State of Alaska has only one reserve
that is a MR in nearshore waters, and that is at Glacier Bay which also happens to be a
National Park.

Certainly you may have been mislead with regard to the status of Marine Reserves, but
hopefully in the future you will feel compelled to acknowledge the real allocation.
Study of the MR's in Washington also provides specific reason and rationale, primarily
due to location to population centers that are very similar to California. The Coastline
of Oregon, Washington, and Alaska are very dissimilar in this way.

2.- "We know that marine reserves are a scientifically proven management tool to
help restore the health of our ocean and protect it for future generations
of Oregonians." This statement is unfortunately misleading as there has been no studies
of Marine Reserves in any environment that mimics the environment off the Oregon Coast.
While information provided by PISCO does lead to some examples of use of marine reserves
as a management tool, there are many things to consider such as: location, current
management (or lack thereof) type of restoration needed, and how restoration could work.
Things such as site fidelity of juvenile species is important, and current swept location
have not shown to be as receptive as non-current location.

The key point here is "management tool". For those that are not aware, we currently have
heavily managed fisheries off the Oregon Coast. If you are also not aware, the Science
and Technical Advisory Committee (STAC) advised OPAC on March 6th of this year that the
pace and efforts to develop Marine Reserves will "prevent the proposal from being well
informed by science." Scientific and Technical Committee Members: Jack Barth, College of
Oceanic and Atmospheric Science, Oregon State University: Susan Hanna, Agriculture and
Resource Economics, Oregon State University; Selina Heppell, Fisheries and Wildlife,
Oregon State University; Richard Hildreth, School of Law, University of Oregon; Jay
Rasmussen, Oregon Sea Grant, Oregon State University, chair; David Sampson, Fisheries and
Wildlife, Oregon State University; Craig Young, Oregon Institute of Marine Biology,
University of Oregon


With regards to some of the comments you made in response, I believe you
would do a service to those you are attempting to enlist by being prepared with
information. Of the Marine Protected Areas that are currently established in Oregon,
there is currently not a single one that is being researched. There is no baseline for
what is out there, and no finances to do so. For ODF&W to take on the Marine Reserve
issue, finances must be pulled away from the current Nearshore Management Plan that is
effective and allocate them to a new division that has no specified goal or definable
action.

I will save you the litany of information that is wrong with the current process, but I
will leave you with this..... In an attempt to move forward with any sort of Marine
Reserves, my best advice is that proponents follow the PISCO pamphlet THE SCIENCE OF
MARINE RESERVES. More specifically, go to page 18 of the PISCO pamphlet and review what
PISCO themselves say is necessary to make Marine Reserves work. To date, the very first
bullet point of "CLEAR GOALS" has not been established, and following down one by one you
will find that each subsequent bullet point has either not been met, not been
established, not been reviewed, or just plain ignored to date.

So I leave you with this.... How can you possibly justify the creation of Marine
Reserves with such little information at hand, and more so, by ignoring the information
that the main environmental group behind Marine Reserves(PISCO)says is mandatory?

I look forward to your response.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Admittedly I was not very nice in my first contact with this gentleman. But it is rather obvious he has not heard from the true sports fisherman. If he is referring to Bob Reece then the joke is on him. Bob does not represent me or the sport fishing industry. He represents himself and his beliefs for what he thinks is right. He does not have a consensus of other sport fishers following in his footsteps.

This type of stuff is nothing but a sad propaganda ploy to land/ocean grab and tie up the resource. Just like they did with oil, coal, spotted owl and so on. I am tired of being told you can't go there or you can't go here. Outta my way!!!!

[Nalu]

Bernie-

With all due respect..... If I was the recipient of your e-mail I would assume that any further discussion with your group or those that you represent would be pointless. I would certainly jump to the conclusion that any discussion would be based on vitriolic sentiments and that regardless of what I had to say, there would be no effort on your part to consider my thoughts.

I am not sure, but telling someone that they are a liar, and that what they are doing is nothing but a waste of time probably isn't going to further your agenda much.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Mike thanks for the respect.

Realizing I had been a bit crass I sent another e-mail to Jeremiah prior to your respectful response.

I hate it when I get wound up tight like that and fire off a shot. Your points are valid and RESPECTED sir.

[Salty Walty]

This group just showed up a couple of months ago at the hearings for 3609 and the last OPAC Meeting. Unfortunately this type of Spam campaign reaches many uninformed, easily mislead and impressionable persons. Signing up for these lists is a great way to find out what is being said by the advocates.

[Pilar]

Nalu thank you for stating the problems so eloquently. I can only hope that your careful reasoning will elicit a like response from the people who are ill informed but zealous in implementing marine reserves.

Oregon is not like California in so many ways. Solutions designed for that benighted place are not necessarily the best thing for Oregon. That simple realization and some intellectual curiousity may bring the right approach to our waters.

[Tip-Sea]

Nice job on your responce letter Mike (Nalu) . I'm glad to have someone on our side who is well informed and well spoken. It's amazing how much damage these enviromental groups can do without knowing the facts.

[Bluefinn]

Mike ,
Very well written.I wish I would have went to english class more.
Thanks for your efforts on this we all want to say or do something but have a hard time finding the words.

[Smoked Salmon]

I also informed Jeremiah that I would be stepping up my campaign to protect nature by outlawing the viewing of animals in their natural habitat. Too many times have natural acts been interrupted by thoughtless humans stumbling onto the scene.

He does have a nice ivory tower though.

[Nalu]

FYI- I received a reply back from Jeremiah that I found well thought out and took some time to put together. I will not reprint it here as I do not think tearing it apart will do much good. There are things I do not agree with, and I will continue on my own.

My biggest point, and one I appreciate that many of you understand is that "OUR" side holds so many cards. We can discuss, debate, and fractionalize many points that proponents make with regard to the current implementation of marine reserves. We can do this with facts, data, and non-emotional responses.

The ability to throw back PISCO's own booklet at proponents and ask them to go down the list of what is needed to make an effective marine reserve is key. Start with "CLEARLY ESTABLISHED GOALS", then work your way down, and the current process breaks down quickly.

Take this argument off our shoulders and make proponents bear the burden by acknowledging what their own literature says.

[corrirod]

Very well written Mike.

I would please beg you though to continue to post the responses on this board as they will help all of us get a feel for "their side of the story". This will help us all to be readily prepared, with a united voice, when it comes time to defend our position with all the opposing organizations involved with Marine Reserves. It always adds credibility when groups of people have a common message vs. everyone going on their own tangent.

In redneck terms that means, "it always helps to know what your enemy plans to use for ammunition before you get to the fight."

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by corrirod

Very well written Mike.

I would please beg you though to continue to post the responses on this board as they will help all of us get a feel for "their side of the story". This will help us all to be readily prepared, with a united voice, when it comes time to defend our position with all the opposing organizations involved with Marine Reserves. It always adds credibility when groups of people have a common message vs. everyone going on their own tangent.

In redneck terms that means, "it always helps to know what your enemy plans to use for ammunition before you get to the fight."

Rod-

I will consider posting here, but what I do not wish to do is start a huge amount of negative posts that get off track. I honestly respect that Mr. Bauman has taken the time to respond to myself and others. Getting more people riled up in an unseemly fashion doesn't strike me as a positive thing for our side.

[fishboys]

Mike I would like to read the response you got back. If you dont want to post it could you pm it to me or e-mail it? Thanks, Troy

[Deeman]

As background so all are on the same page. Environment Oregon is a recent spin off of OSPIRG ( Oregon Student Public Interest Research Group). It in fact amounts to little more then a split into two groups and a name change. Much like ONRC (Oregon Natural Resources Council) turned into Oregon Wild a few years ago because the negative image that was held of the group. It is my understanding that this group, while having some private funding is funded primarily by the government. I certainly may be wrong on the funding issue, so dont take it as gospel. Be aware they will bring to this issue all of the energy of college age people and all of the knowledge and common sense as well.
Sorry guys my bad. It is "Oregon STATE Public Interest Research Group". I guess it shows what 7 years at the U of O gets you. Its hard to shake the indroctrination that it all revolves around "YOU the Student". Even after 20 years.

[Jsail]

Mike
I appreciate your efforts and discipline in writing your response to Jeremiah. Please don't be deterred by the amount fortitude that is written here. You are on the right track.
When I first saw Bud's post I wondered who this guy was. A simple search brought up his web page, take a look.
http://www.pirg.org/media/staff/jeremiahbaumann.html
I'm not attacking this guys character just wondering what his motivation is. He seems intelligent, maybe the facts will turn him toward a workable and profitable plan.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Interesting that he has delved into renewable resources. Could there be a tie between Wave energy and Jeremaih. Just wondering out loud with my tinfoil hat on.

[Salty Walty]

It is great to see the effort, feeling and thought that everyone is putting into their replies. I realize that it might be hard to bite your tongue in your replies but I would not like to see our emails and replies here used against us.


A good point that you could bring up is the conflict in Environment Oregons stance (as stated on their website) on protecting the Ocean and their being fully behind Wave Energy. Considering the potential for harm to the Marine Environment from this renewable resource, in the form of large concrete anchors on the bottom, wires and cables in the water and other unknown hazards. It just strikes me as being contrary to want to establish MRs to protect the Ocean but on the other hand endorse the creation of large Wave Energy farms in the environment that they wish to protect.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by Salty Walty

It is great to see the effort, feeling and thought that everyone is putting into their replies. I realize that it might be hard to bite your tongue in your replies but I would not like to see our emails and replies here used against us. .

Who you talking about Walt, guys like me that get a little excited when I see mass media marketing for something that science has no conclusion or sincere viable study over? Guillty as charged.