Info on casting bullets/loading???

[Old Goat]

I am interested in precision casting of handgun bullets. I want to do a lot of shooting with larger hunting handguns and reloading will cut down on the cost. Also casting the bullets would be fun and help with $. It seems that heat treating is necessary to increase hardness of wheel weight lead to aid in proper expantion of the bullet. I have found information on that. But what is the deal with sizing? Do you order bullet molds that are larger than you need or do the molds produce bullets that are a bit large for sizing to perfect size? I also hear that the bigger handguns will have problems with the bullet jumping the crimps. Are the Redding crimp dies the answer here? I would be interested in meeting up with someone who casts bullets for a hands on session!!!

Is there any long term negative effect to shooting the smaller cartridges from a revolver that is rated for two kinds of ammo? My 454 is also rated for shooting the 45 colt.

[scottishsetter]

Magma engineering. sells the star lubri-sizer now.
Handloader Magazine Dec.'07 No.250 Has several great articles.
RCBS Cast Bullet Manual No.1 is good for a start. Good Luck

[billc_sbio]

Typically moulds WILL cast slightly oversize bullets.

Then typically you size your bullets ~.001" OVER the bore diameter.

(So, typically .357 bullets for 357s and 38s get sized .358" etc.)

You can size them right AT bore diameter (zero clearance), but if your bore's slightly oversized, then you run the risk of Leading.

True "Leading" is caused by hot gasses pushing BY and around the bullet in the barrel and melting the Lead as it goes by.

It's not the same thing as Lead STREAKING, which is just the Lead being scrubbed off by rubbing against the barrel.

Pure Lead, such as is used in Muzzleloaders and Cap 'n Ball pistols and revolvers has the HIGHEST melting point.

Alloys using Tin and or Antimony to harden smokeless bullets, bring the melting temperature of the bullets DOWN.

Thus the "Hardcast" bullets, if sized incorrectly, will actually Lead barrels worse than softer bullets.

To do it perfectly "right" each gun shooting cast bullets should have its barrel "slugged" (using a slightly oversized soft Lead slug or round ball) and then measured to determine the true diameter of the barrel. This ensures that you cast & size or buy the correct size bullets to fit your gun.

Star's are really nice Lubrisizers.

But I've always used Redding (Saeco)s of which I have two. Their construction and method of operation is really good and it's a really rugged little machine.

I have one dedicated to using smokeless Lube and another dedicated to using Blackpowder Lube, which are totally different Lubes and you don't want to contaminate the non-petroleum BP Lube with the contents of Smokeless Lube.

The purpose in the "Lubes" is quite a bit different between Smokeless and Blackpowder.

The purpose in Smokeless firearms it to help prevent Leading and also Lead buildup from streaking and possible soldering of the metal onto the barrel.

This holds true, to a degree also with Blackpowder guns, but the more immediate purpose in BP guns is for the Lube to keep the powder fouling soft and allowing the subsequent bullet to push the BP fouling out of the barrel and not to become hardened and built up. If BP residue "fouls" in a barrel, a hard coating builds up in the barrel grooves and essentially turns the firearm into a smoothbore and accuracy is totally lost.

When you get into higher velocity cast bullets for rifles and/or revolvers, you get into the realm of Gas Check bullets and their design.

This is an extra step in Lubrisize process (the Saeco Sizer's set up nicely to do this) where the Die's Plunger is locked and little "cups" or Gas Checks are crimped onto the base of special Gas Check Base designed bullets.

[scottishsetter]

I've hardened my bullets before, requires *something* like 3% antimony? place bullets on a cookie sheet and place in a preheated oven at 385 degrees (IIRC) for 15 minutes then carefully(they're soft) 'pour' them into a 5 gal. bucket of iced water.Messy.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by scottishsetter

I've hardened my bullets before, requires *something* like 3% antimony? place bullets on a cookie sheet and place in a preheated oven at 385 degrees (IIRC) for 15 minutes then carefully(they're soft) 'pour' them into a 5 gal. bucket of iced water.Messy.

"Quench Hardened" bullets will, over time, go "soft" on you again.

The additional hardness you get from just adding Antimony itself is usually sufficient for most intended uses.

In fact on many thin skinned animals a certain amount of distortion/expansion IS desireable, isn't it?

Look at all the work that's gone into perfecting JHP designs just to GET expansion!

As Elmer Keith used to advocate when referring to pistol bullets, "If you want a large size hole, start with a large diameter bullet".

[scottishsetter]

You're right Billc-sbio; My 45colt bullet mold throws 307gr GC 4 mold Hensley-Gibbs(not sure if it's made?) I got a quench hardness of 17-20bn? Your tooth bearly marks it; travels right on thru everything from my old 7 1/2 Vaquero with a Power Custom Bisley hammer.Sweet to shoot your own bullets though.Use good ventilation, good luck

[Don Fischer]

We used to use tin to harden bullets. As I understand it, lead and antimony won't mix. Rather the lead solders itself to the antimony. Lead and tin do mix. My understanding is that fluxing is done to get the lead and antimony to solder together.

To make #2 casting metal use 9# of wheel weights and 1# of 50/50 solder. I do like straight wheel weights and used to love linotype metal. Unfortunately I don't know where to get it any more. I do have a lot of pure lead and mix it with wiping solder too.

[scottishsetter]

Don you 're probably right; it's one of those necessary for hardening. Once they are in 'the mix' it's near impossible to get the bad one out.

[Hunt'nFish]

In my opinion casting bullets is a pain in the butt. You can get a better bullet from commerical casters like Oregon Trail and other local casters. Buying in 5k lots w/ shop pickup also reduces costs.

Bill hit everything on the head in his posts concerning actually casting, sizing and quenching. Getting into casting is no cheap $$ saver endeaver, unless you shoot a ton. And if you did shoot that much I'd probably look at one of the small Magna Engineering casters as well. I almost bought one.
Hunt'nFish