Are we breeding the bite out of the fish?

[Snapset]

Are we Breeding the bite out of the fish?
While standing along the river, waiting for the next fish to bite, I, as I am sure most of you, have wondered: “What happens to the next generation of fish, if their parents are the ones with neither curiosity nor aggression that swam by all of the lures of the fishers, and meekly lined up in the hatchery channel to wait their turn to be milked and squeezed for eggs”. If there is a genetic component to the tendency for a fish to bite, and we are catching the vast majority of the willing biters out of the population, won’t the next generation have a reduced tendency to bite?

Another question: If the more vigorous fish out of a population are more likely to act aggressively, and therefore bite more readily, won’t these be naturally the first ones caught? Won’t this leave fewer to spawn that possess that genetic vigor? Will the end result be a bunch of Milque-Toast meekfish which would be no fun to catch, even if they would bite?

A couple years back, I hooked and landed a buck, and not wanting to make him part of my limit, released him. A few minutes later, I hooked another fish that did not fight very hard, which looked identical to the earlier fish. I released him also. I caught and kept a nice hen soon after, and then within a half hour, hooked and released the same buck. He could barely swim, but I held him for several minutes in the current until he swam off. Not wanting to endanger this fish anymore, I moved down river and fished for an hour or so before fishing a hole upriver from where I first caught that buck. Needless to say, he had swam up into the new hole, and bit again. Once again, and luckily, I was able to revive him. I quit for the day, in awe of the spirit and tenacity of that buck steelhead. I regret unintentionally exhausting that fish for my own amusement. Even more, I regret that I was unable to ensure his survival until he could reproduce and pass on his extraordinary tendency to bite a lure.

Proposal:
Only spawn fish that have returned to the hatchery with a hook in their jaw, or that have been caught on hook and line, and kept alive by fishers that would be willing to donate or trade their catch for the good of future generations of fish and fishers. If a fisher brings in a healthy, live steelhead in a cooler of water, trade him for one of the fish that zipped upriver and didn’t get caught. Sell the rest of the fish that return unscathed for cat food. Or give them to the Indians for their subsistence quota. Since the number of fish needed for hatchery eggs is relatively small compared to the total number of returning fish, this seems feasible to me. I think something similar to this is taking place on some rivers in the northwest with the broodstock programs, but why not do it at all of the hatcheries?
Comments?

[BlueWater]

Snapset-
This rain has realy left you with a some time on your hands hasn't it? Interesting thought but I think a stretch. Don't worry I think it will stop raining before you have to solve world peace.
BlueWater.

[STGRule]

If the fish are biting, catch away. If they are not biting remember: They call it fishing not catching. And if you hunt: They call it hunting, not killing.

[Amerman]

If your statement is true that by breeding only fish that make it past the fisherman we breed the bite out of them, then would we not be breeding the bite into the fish when we do programs like the Nestucca and Wilson river broodstock where we only spawn the fish that bite. Every fish that is spawned for these broodstock programs are rod and reel caught by sportsman. Hey Marty, another arguement fot broodstocks :shocked: More food for your thought.

But of course we have no control of this in the wild since only the fish that make it past the fisherman get to spawn.

[Pete]

I've always thought that fish bite for two reasons; either to eat or to protect territory. If we accept the hypothesis that fish willing to take a hook (bait or hardware) are being pulled from the population, would that mean we would only have fish that don't eat or protect their territory after to returning to their home river? Just for the sake of argument, would that mean we are accellerating the demise of indigenous steelhead? I sure hope not!

[David Johnson]

Check out the "Publishers Drift" on page 8 of the new STS. Frank points out that on the Deschutes when there is a 10 to 1 ratio of hatchery to wild the catch can still be 50/50 wild and hatchery.

I have also thought about the only fish being in the hatchery were the ones that were not geneticly agressive biters.

I was also thinking about how the brod stock fish were the most agressive ones becuase we catch them and then put them into the hatchery.

How many of you have caught a fish with a hole punch in the gill plate? Those are the recycled hatchery fish that the state trucks back down river so we can have another crack at them. It's a fact that most are back into the hatchery within a couple days.

Good thing we have some high water when all the fish can get through without being weeded out by us fishermen.

[Snapset]

Amerman, thank you for seconding my original proposal. I think I might actually get involved with the ODFW on this. Are there any Hatchery workers out there who could explain the criteria for selecting fish for spawning?

[BUGLEMAN]

I like that, a live steelhead exchange program. What a fantastic idea. I think there is something to that weeding the bite out idea too. I have always liked the broodstock programs for that reason

[ampersat]

i read an article not long ago about how commercial fisheries are breeding down the fish in terms of size by keeping only the larger fish. now the fish they are getting are smaller and smaller. it stands to reason that if we can breed certain traits into dogs and horses by reproducing those with the desired traits, it would also work that way for fish. however, because of the way we have handled the hatchery programs in the past, we would be breeding non-biters.

here here for the broodstock programs. i also like the idea of swapping fish at the hatcheries. you could even do a two for one; which is more valuable in a hatchery program, another hatchery fish or a native? question is: how do you keep them alive to get them to the hatchery? do they actually have to be alive for the hatchery folks to harvest the goods?

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Hey Snapset-

I'm pretty sure they choose the right fish to spawn by the same scientific method they use to pick out produce at the grocery store. They just thump on the belly like they were a watermelon. If it has a good bass to it, they spawn it. If it sounds like glass crashing, they sell it to the catfood and fertilizer companies.

[dawhunt]

I've been told by someone I trust compelety,in Canada on certain streams or rivers they pay a group of fisherman to catch native fish.They put the fish in some kind of a plastic tube,the fishery comes by and picks up the fish takes it to the hatchery and those fish become the spawners for the hatchery.Only on the river there caught in so that the genetics don't get messed with.This is probaply more expensive then the way we do it but the fish stay in the river they came from and are not inferior fish like some of our hatchery fish.I mean you can tell after catching a few fish if its a hatchery or native shortly after setting the hook the natives fight much harder jump alot more just all around a tougher fish,I love them there's nothing like it.I admit this was a few years ago when there was more of fish to catch and lots more natives and if you fished hard you caught a lot of fish.I wish we could go back to those days,I miss them. :depressed: As long as we have people in office like Gov.Locke
over here in Washington we're pretty much screwed.
Let me tell you about an article in the Dec issue of the Reel News,I'll shorten the article a lot.If you want a copy e-mail me I have a few I can send out.O.K. here is a short shot to the sport fisherman-A southwest Washington has been named to The Washington Fish and Willife Commission the first ever in 20 yrs.GUESS WHAT --
He is from Cathlamet an buys his fish from the gillnetters is in complete support of them and thinks the sports fisherman have it pretty good right now !!!,he also has a proplem and is against the way the WDFW protects wildlife.There's a lot more but I'm sure you would like me to stop writeing now.If you would like a copy e-mail at dawhunt@attbi.com amd I'll mail you one.I only have a few so don't swamp me O.K. :grin: ,Oh Yea he's in office untill 2006,we're screwed over here for sure.
Bob :depressed:

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: dawhunt ]</p>

[happybrew]

Gee, and I thought that when the fish were biting it was because of my skill, and when they weren't biting it was because of bad luck.

happybrew

[ssteelheadsteve]

For years I have been lucky enough to fish water that contains only wild fish.In the bush really wild fish are ALL biters. I have been to many places where eveery fish would take.What does this mean ?