Ok, bow help

James in Idaho · 03-20-2008, 02:04 PM

Well, thanks to my local Bowtech/Martin dealer I'm in a quandry. The two bows I'm looking at are the Bowtech Tomcat and the Martin pro shop Moab. The Bowtech is a dual cam, the Moab is a single. I've spent time shooting them side by side, and I really can't tell that much difference. Now I know that you guys are a little Bowtech crazy, but I'd welcome all opinions! It's been since 1991 that I bought a bow, and needless to say the technology has changed somewhat. Both are a package, the Martin is the first pro shop bow my dealer has ever ordered (they just took over Martin from a closed shop), he's a diehard Bowtech/Diamond guy but he's impressed. They have decided that the Moab will be a stocked bow on the first one, and there are a couple of guy waiting to by the Moab if I decide to go Bowtech.

In his opinion, the Martin has a better rest (wisker) and a better quiver in the package. The Bowtech has a better sight, so pretty much a wash, and the price is within $30 or $40. The Moab's numbers are a little better weight wise and speed wise. The main use will be a hunting bow, maybe some fun 3 D stuff, but I don't see getting all that serious about that.

HELP!!!!!!!

beardbuster · 03-20-2008, 02:38 PM

Basically what you need to do is this:

Since it sounds like you are NOT going to upgrade the components on the bow, adding a better rest and sights is not an issue.

If it was me I would stand about 5 feet in front of a target with each bow. Close my eyes and shoot each once twice. You'll know which one feels the best and that is the one you'll want.

bo4elk · 03-20-2008, 03:03 PM

I've grown fond of the single cam design. Its sort of like the truck that you just fill with gas and go. I previously shot a fury, it was a lot more like an an indy car. It could really go, but required a lot of tuning and adjustment work. I'm not saying that todays dual cams have the issue of the dual cams in the past, but it can be said that a single cam will not have issues with wheel timing (which was the curse of my old fury). I agree with beard buster, determine which one "feels" better. Weight, balance, hand shock, etc.

Joe · 03-20-2008, 05:33 PM

I gotta tell you that I would expect a pro shop to be more flexible than that as far as what rest, sight and quiver you get on your bow. You should be after the best bow, rest and sight for YOU and not what is on a package. It only takes a second to switch stuff around and if you go as long before buying a new one as you have now you will be stuck with the stuff for a long time. Just my opinion and I may be a little spoiled....

As for the bow I sure wouldn't fret about numbers they are both undoubtedly plenty fast.

nakoa · 03-20-2008, 06:57 PM

both good bows i agree with beardbuster. it may have to be a coin flip

No Fences · 03-20-2008, 07:20 PM

If it was me, I would not base my decision on the accessories that come on the bow. Those are really easy to swap out and most likely something you will do after shooting for awhile.

BTW, good luck sticking to your guns about not getting serious about bow hunting. Once you start, you may never look back.

beardbuster · 03-20-2008, 08:14 PM

The main reason people buy package bows is because they dont want to add or have the resources to put better equipment on them. The equipment they come with is very good. Captures rests, fiber optic sights, one peice quivers -I am guessing. There are plenty of guys like James who say "that's what it came with and it works." They pick it up, it shoots straight and their happy.

Obviously James is looking for something is set up and will last him some time in the woods. Its been 17 years since his last bow purchase, so you know he is going to keep this one for a while too.

I was with a friend who bought two bows, one for him and one for his wife. By the time he had walked out the door he had spent another $800 on sights, quivers, drop away arrow rests etc. It can be very expensive. I know, I am always tinkering with my bows.

beaverheart · 03-21-2008, 06:24 AM

Sounds like either one would be a good choice. Here is my two bits. As someone mentioned in an earlier post dual cams have tuning problems over single cams. Single cam bows are more forgiving in that respect and consistent true arrow flight is a big deal. Matthews bows are single cam and they are generally considered to be the standard of the industry. I agree with others that accessories can easily be upgraded and should be a minor part of your decision. I bought a Parker bow a couple of years ago and it came with a whisker biscuit rest, it didn't take me very long to replace it. The rest beat up my fletchings pretty bad eventually tearing them. Also, since the arrow is in contact with the rest for a longer period of time the archer has to remain steady for the entire time that the arrow is in contact with the rest. I replaced it with a drop rest. I just bought a new Matthews and it has much more consistent arrow flight.

Doc_Rhen · 03-21-2008, 07:10 AM

We are not actually talking about a true "Dual-Cam" here. The tomcat is a Bianary cam system. I have been a big fan of the binaries since they started. By slaving the two cams together with a "pair" of 40 inch cables you should not have issues with the cams coming out of timing where as with a single cam having one cable that is about 40 inches and one string well over 100 inches it is pretty easy to see that there could and often is a problem with the cam coming out of tune as the 100" of string stretches more than twice as much as the 40" cable. That was one of the things that I really noticed when I was on the Mathews forum a couple years ago, it seemed the answer to every other thread was "Press the bow and bring it back into spec, probably x-twists of the string and x-twists of the cable". So for my money I would go with the Tomcat, or upgrade to a Hybrid Duo-cat Martin if you would prefer martin. Elite and HCA also make nice "binary" cam offerings.

James in Idaho · 03-21-2008, 07:27 AM

Thanks guys, I'll keep thinking it over. I've shot a bunch of different bows in the last month (Mathews, Bowtech, Parker, Martin, and a couple that I don't remember). It has changed a lot since I used to shoot. I started bowhunting in '76, but I got my first bow (a solid fiberglass job) sometime in the late 60's. Learned to shoot from a true bow pioneer, Harold Groves at his various shops in Albuquerque. Switched to compounds in the late 70's, starting with a Browning "2nd" two wheeler and bought a used Bear Alaskan while in college (still one of the smoothest bows I ever shot). Lost that one in a when my house got robbed (along with a really nice S&W model 66, a lightweight 20 guage 870, and most of my hunting gear), bought a Pearson in 1991. About that time I also aquired a wife and a kid, got really into retrievers, and just stepped away from slinging arrows. Don't have the wife anymore, my daughter doesn't want to shoot big game at this time (bird hunting and fishing are another story!), my dog is old and I won't have a pup before October/November so I think this is the time for me to get back to archery. There will be a learning curve (heck, does anybody still shoot fingers? I'll be learning a release) with all the new stuff out there, but I'm looking forward to it. There is a club here (and if I buy my bow at this dealer they'll pay half of my membership for the first year!) with an indoor 24 hour range, and they have a 3D range for summer. My daughter is a swimmer, so I'm thinking that I can drop her off at morning swim, you just have to love that 5:00 am start time, swing by the range and shoot a little every week. Pretty sure I'll upgrade from the package stuff over time, but I want to keep it simple. The shop I'm working with has been GREAT, I didn't think I was going to get my daughter out of there without that Diamond they had her shooting while talking to me!

It has become difficult to draw rifle tags in my part of Idaho, heck even the cow tags are getting tough to get. We still for the most part have OTC tags for some really goods areas with a bow, plus nearby mule deer in the hills and whitetails in the river bottoms. Can also hunt antelope within about a 45 minute drive with an OTC tag, so there is a lot of opportunity.

Dave Smith · 03-21-2008, 07:30 AM

I would say that if a package is the only choice, and a wisker biscuit is the "better of the two rests", I would go with the Martin. I am leary of what that other rest is.

Doc_Rhen · 03-21-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Smith

I would say that if a package is the only choice, and a wisker biscuit is the "better of the two rests", I would go with the Martin. I am leary of what that other rest is.

The "other rest" is also a full capture rest that Bowtech's accessory side is making, I have shot it a little and it really seems to be six of one half a dozen of the other. The best advice here is probably the close your eyes and shoot the bows side by side. The one that feels best is the one that you should get. Buying that Diamond for your daughter is a good idea also, I love taking my kids out shooting, some of the best times we have together.

beardbuster · 03-21-2008, 07:46 AM

The BowTech Capture rest is not fully enclosed. It is designed to allow your fletch to pass through without damage.

ORsouthpaw · 03-21-2008, 08:02 AM

Personally I would recommend that you don't buy a bow in package. The main reason is that most of the add on components (Sights, Rests, Quivers & Stabilizers are most manufacturer's entry level equipment. Sights are usually not well built and you have to replace them anyway. Take your time and find a new/used bow that someone has already spent the time upgrading, you'll likley be happier. Just my .02 cents

James in Idaho · 03-21-2008, 09:49 AM

Doc:

My daughter has an older PSE Nova, now if we could just figure out when she has the time to shoot! Teenage girl, competitive swimmer, speech/debate (made State this week, not bad for a frosh!), and she's really, really involved with the American Cancer Relay for Life, serving on the Western Youth Committee as the first teen from Idaho and the youngest serving this year. Yeah, I think I should paint my Toyota yellow and get a vanity tag that says "taxi"! Some of the guys at high school are trying to talk her into joining the trap league too.

But we're going steelheading next week for 3 or 4 days!!!!

gr8outdoors · 03-21-2008, 11:47 AM

I own a tomkat and I love it! I bought it last January. It was my first shooter that wasn't a hand me down. I bought the package too but swapped out the quiver and have a whisker bisket rest. For me it has shot great in all weather. In the woods it wasn't bad to carry even with the two piece quiver and arrows. For me it is a great starting off point and I think the price for the quality was great. It definitely solidified my enjoyment of archery!

James in Idaho · 03-25-2008, 10:50 AM

Ok, drum roll please.....................................Bowtech ! It just felt a little better, but they are so close. Should be ready to go tonight. Added a dozen Gold tips, a stabilizer, wraps and blazers on the arrows. Thanks to all of you who commented for you insights.

Oh yeah, the tech didn't like the arrow flight he was getting the the Bowtech capture, so he switched me to a wisker at no charge. Really impressed with this shop.

beardbuster · 03-25-2008, 08:24 PM

Sounds good. You have to go with whatever will be the best option for you. Personally, I am glad that you chose the BowTech, but I would have been just as happy for you to find any bow that works.

Joe · 03-25-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James in Idaho

Oh yeah, the tech didn't like the arrow flight he was getting the the Bowtech capture, so he switched me to a wisker at no charge. Really impressed with this shop.

That is exactly what I was talking about! It should be all about you being happy with your setup.

Good luck this fall! I shoot a Bowtech and have nothing but good things to say about it but I wasn't going to try and push then on you. I have owned two Martins but finally saw the light.

Seriously though...either way you would have a quality bow.

WoodShampoo · 03-25-2008, 09:06 PM

James,

I just bought a Bowtech Allegiance last year after shooting an old PSE Nova for the last 10 years. I couldn't be happier. (Until my hunting partner shot at and missed the 320-340 bull that I was 1/2 second from shooting at 18 yds.. broadside..) But that's a different story. You made a good choice on the Bowtech!!

Brian

nakoa · 03-27-2008, 07:41 AM

james i to bought a new bowtech allengence last year it is worth every dime i spent