Grady Snob might jump ship.....

[Grady252]

OK, Since I started ocean fishing, I have been trying to find the perfect boat.....

I had a 22' aluminum boat...... rough riding air suspension seats, decided I should have a glass boat...

Then I had a 1979 25' Chris Craft Catalina...... nice boat single screw, efficient fuel but slow......

Then I bought a Grady White 252 Sailfish, similar to Nalu's boat with twin 225 Merc two stroke fuel hogs.....I decided I sould upgrade to a new boat with four strokes.....

In august of 2006, I drove to Texas, and bought my current boat a 1990 Grady 232 Gulfstream...... 9'3" beam, 23' plus offshore bracket, installed new electronics, autopilot, radar, outriggers, gel cell batteries, and to top it all off it has a 2006 Loadmaster aluminum trailer and 2007 Suzuki four stroke 140's on it......

Pretty sweet package..... I told my wife it would do me for at least a couple of years before I needed an upgrade..... Last year I really enjoyed the new boat and the fuel use was amazing...... It is in getting a new Eisenglass and drop curtain this week..... I have the interlux 2000 barrier coat, and Trinidad SR bottom paint ready to go when it comes home...... I am so close to being ready for this season.....

Well, there is this guy called Capt. Kujo USIA boats started a thread "how much would you pay......... and he is offering a pretty sweet deal on a larger ALUMINUM boat, so maybe I need to upgrade ...... I may need to revert back to a tin can....

I have not met with him yet, and the details would have to be worked out, but if anyone is interested in a great boat, that should be ready to go.... turn key with two years warranty left and under 100 hours on the power.... Icom 502 radio, Lowrance lcx111c HD, JRC Mrk II radar, and so on......

I will need to get about $45K for it, to make it work, but if there are any serious interested parties send me a PM..... I did not post this in the classifieds because I am not sure I am ready to sell, so I wanted to find an interest level....... and it makes a good story anyhow......

[ripnlips1]

Why would anybody buy your 18 year old boat for $45,000 when Capt KJ is offering to build an aluminum fishing machine for $50,000?

Originally Posted by Grady252

OK, Since I started ocean fishing, I have been trying to find the perfect boat.....

I had a 22' aluminum boat...... rough riding air suspension seats, decided I should have a glass boat...

Then I had a 1979 25' Chris Craft Catalina...... nice boat single screw, efficient fuel but slow......

Then I bought a Grady White 252 Sailfish, similar to Nalu's boat with twin 225 Merc two stroke fuel hogs.....I decided I sould upgrade to a new boat with four strokes.....

In august of 2006, I drove to Texas, and bought my current boat a 1990 Grady 232 Gulfstream...... 9'3" beam, 23' plus offshore bracket, installed new electronics, autopilot, radar, outriggers, gel cell batteries, and to top it all off it has a 2006 Loadmaster aluminum trailer and 2007 Suzuki four stroke 140's on it......

Pretty sweet package..... I told my wife it would do me for at least a couple of years before I needed an upgrade..... Last year I really enjoyed the new boat and the fuel use was amazing...... It is in getting a new Eisenglass and drop curtain this week..... I have the interlux 2000 barrier coat, and Trinidad SR bottom paint ready to go when it comes home...... I am so close to being ready for this season.....

Well, there is this guy called Capt. Kujo USIA boats started a thread "how much would you pay......... and he is offering a pretty sweet deal on a larger ALUMINUM boat, so maybe I need to upgrade ...... I may need to revert back to a tin can....

I have not met with him yet, and the details would have to be worked out, but if anyone is interested in a great boat, that should be ready to go.... turn key with two years warranty left and under 100 hours on the power.... Icom 502 radio, Lowrance lcx111c HD, JRC Mrk II radar, and so on......

I will need to get about $45K for it, to make it work, but if there are any serious interested parties send me a PM..... I did not post this in the classifieds because I am not sure I am ready to sell, so I wanted to find an interest level....... and it makes a good story anyhow......

[Grady252]

Originally Posted by ripnlips1

Why would anybody buy your 18 year old boat for $45,000 when Capt KJ is offering to build an aluminum fishing machine for $50,000?

Because my 18 year old boat will be much less than Kujo's if you factor in all the extras..... 9800 lb aluminum trailer, 2007 four strokes, electronics etc.....

Kujo's boat is with two strokes not four, and no electronics, no outriggers etc....His boats do not have the name either.... I am not talking bad about his boat obviously I am considering one because of the deal I may get, but you cannot get a boat like mine from him equipped like mine.... Depends on the budget somone has.....

My boat has a certain value regardless of the deal Kujo is offering.... the motors alone were over 20K, then there is the $6K trailer, and then there is the $5K in electronics....and the list goes on...... I will be adding more than $5k to have one of Kujos boats........If I don;t end up striking up a deal with Kujo I will be happy to fish this boat a few more years.... maybe.... Hell 6 months ago I was considering a Glacier Bay and exchanging e-mails with Catch and Eat..... I am an impulse buyer..... Drives my wife crazy......

Take a look in the classifieds.. have you noticed the prices of some of those baots with I/O and old power? If you're not interested leave me alone.......

[Paddler]

You're going to have to spend a good deal more than $50K to put one of KJ's boats in the water. Figure $6K for a trailer, plus ~$10K or more to rig it. Of course, if you're only fishing tuna you could get by without a FF/Chartplotter or downriggers, and wouldn't need radar for day trips. All you'd need is a hand held GPS, paper charts, rodholders and coolers. AP would be nice, or you could recruit a dedicated helmsman.

NADA retail on your hull is $8960, plus $8500 each for the motors, which totals about $26K. So, including the trailer, you're at ~$30K, plus the used value of your electronics. Not sure anybody could finance $45K for the package, and most would have to finance the purchase.

Don't feel bad. My boat, motor and trailer book at ~$18K. Depreciation sucks. And of course, these values are subject to market pressures. No way I'd sell my boat for $18K. It would cost close to $40K to replace it today.

[Nalu]

NADA value....... Good luck finding the right boat, setup properly for fishing offshore using that as your baseline.

Grady252 has a boat that a shrewd shopper would understand is worth the value. Some guy looking at boat values out of a book will never understand and will never buy it.

Twin Zuki 4 strokes, cockpit space, fast, comfortable ride, good glass, efficient layout....

NADA doesn't mean jack. Marine surveyor is who bases the local price on a boat, and viewing how it is setup and outfitted is what matters.

[Paddler]

Understood, Mike. NADA is just a guideline. I wonder what a marine surveyor would say about his boat, and what a bank would finance on it.

You Grady guys sure are a touchy lot.

That was for Mark Mc, of course.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by Paddler

Understood, Mike. NADA is just a guideline. I wonder what a marine surveyor would say about his boat, and what a bank would finance on it.

You Grady guys sure are a touchy lot.

That was for Mark Mc, of course.

I can say that when I repowered my Grady it NADA valued out at around 40K with non-current motors. The surveyor valued the boat at $65k and the bank had no problem with the re-fi to accomodate the new engines.

Part of the issue is market conditions. Value of a particular boats such as Grady Whites on the West coast are significantly higher than on the East coast due to low availability and high demand.

My point being that there is no reason to try to establish that the boat that John has isn't valued properly by throwing out a NADA value. Put his boat side by side next to a newer boat of equal size and power and decide for yourself. Some people will take the shiny new boat, and some people will choose other criteria as being more important.

[Grady252]

I tried that NADA trick a couple of times myself when I was a buyer..... it never works..... the only people who use NADA are buyers trying to get a good deal, or boat salesman trying to take your boat in on trade..... When selling they tend to use some internet resources for value or surveys. I have never bought or sold a boat for NADA they have alway sold for way more than NADA...... My last Grady (1988 252 Sailfish) had a NADA Value of 21K with motors plus or minus, the 225 Mercs with 166 hours were only valued at $3500. each Need less to say, I did not sell it for $21K

It is real simple..... If you can find a better deal then do it.... if you have a reasonable offer considering what the boat has as a package all together, offer it.....I did not ask for values or BS comments from anyone.. (this ones for you MC).

I think you will be hard pressed to find a comparable boat around here for this money in my opinion...... I worked real hard to find an older Grady I could afford that had never been bottom painted in good condition with old motors, so I could re-power it..... I took five days off work and drove to Texas to buy it.... I then spent countless hours putting together the package and getting it all together nicely.

Try and find one and if you do you'll be lucky..... if you find one figure out how much time and moeny you will spend to get it just like mine.... I am going to meet with KJ, and see what it will take. If I am not able to do it, I am perfectly content to fish this boat for another year or two before I upgrade..... Sometimes opportunity knocks, and I see this as a potential knock.... I will see....

Maybe after the whole package is put together, I will find that KJ's deal is not as sweet..... ... In a declining economy aluminum prices could go down..... used boats could flood the market..... boat dealers could get real aggressive...... maybe his cost plus 10% will not be the right deal.... maybe it will.....

"cost" is a subjective figure. Maybe other boat companies don't pay for cutting and bending as much per boat, maybe other companies build them in less hours, maybe some compaines charge less per hour, maybe some companies buy plans once and each customer doesn't have to pay for plans, maybe some companies ship many boats at a time, so the shipping costs per boat are a lot lower.... See where I am going with this...... KJ's cost may be a lot more because the custom nature of the boat compared to a production company.... I am not talking quality... just pure cost....

I am always amazed as a contractor when I deal with companies that contiually tell me they are loosing money, yet they are charging me the same amount as other companies that are making money.... maybe your overhead is to high??? The loss is based upon over inflated profit and overhead figures......

Anyhow I had a request for pictures, so it is attached to my rant..... Thanks for the NADA feedback, but I have seen NADA and can look it up when I want..... I did not ask anyone for values... that was the aluminum boat thread....

[SOL]

I'm not to smart but I know a boat is only worth what people will pay for it.

NADA, Surveys, etc... Are just references.

[Hoghunter]

You could offer me a bigger aluminum boat for my Grady and I would turn the offer down in a heat beat.

IMO the Grady is the best built, best backed and best riding boat I've ever been on. And I've been on lot's, some I owned and many that belonged to other skippers.

There's a reason why they have the reputation and value after almost 50 years in business. Many other brands have come and gone in that time.

I don't know why your not buying another Grady John. Good luck in your endeavor.

[Paddler]

Hard to understand why NADA is so unreliable. I can understand being off by 10-15%, but 40% is just too much. I don't know enough about used boat values to say anything, but I used NADA when I sold my last boat, which was nine years old at the time. I priced it a NADA retail, and the accessories at 50% of purchase price. I had two calls on it, and one guy came to look at it. He bought it on the spot for the asking price, partially because of condition. Don't think I could have wrung much more out of it.

If I used that formula for my Hewes, I would come up with ~$22K, not counting all of my labor. That's not enough to make me eager to sell it, as I see it as nearly new. Good luck with selling your boat. The value is strictly between you and the buyer, and of course any third party lender if one is involved.

[KChookem]

Pride of ownership, maintainance and TLC are very important factors in a boat purchase, "pre-owned" or new. And they have significant value too.

$45,000 for a fully equipped Grady, owned by someone who takes great pride in his vessel and his seamanship, sure caught my attention. I began to daydream of the possibilites, and I am not even looking for another boat!

[olybirds]

you cant sell the Grady for an alloy boat... Cuz then you'd have to bash all the 2nd rate glass boats that aren't "Built Tough" like a alloy boat, instead of bashng all the boats that arent Grady's....


I think that a 1990 Gulfstream would be about $35-40k for a reasonable price in the current market, if its solid and in good cosmetic shape, and the motors have reasonable hours on them for 07's. Those are nice roomy Grady's, but that extra width makes them too wide to transport w/o a permit and that is sort of a turn off to some.

[Duckwheat]

The true value of anything is what someone agrees to pay for it. Up to that point it is just a debate.

Nice boat with a cult like following. Some people go for that sort of thing, some don't. The product of a free society that attempts to meet the market needs.

Some people do not have the expereince to put together a rig like that and will pay for it already being packaged up.

Good luck in getting your deal put together. That boat Pilar is building is impressive.

DW

[Zodiac-Fisherman]

Grady..

Better think long n hard about transitioning over to metal..

Fiberglass boats will ALWAYS ride better. As engineers are able to create variable V degrees in the hull by creating a mold. Its not so easy to attain those type of curvatures with aluminum.

Plus weight is money offshore. As long as your able to match the power needed to push that weight through thr slop.
Anyone will tell ya that a heavy, fast glass boat is money offshore!!


There are LOTS of killer glass boats out there! My bro just picked up a newer 34' Mirage with twin yami 300's for 80k. Keep your eyes open and you can get into a killer 30'+ glass boat for less than 75k.

[corrirod]

Just to clarify some things about NADA. Unfortunately it is used by some lenders as a means to base their loan amounts on. True boat lending institutions have more sophisticated methods of determining value but most general institutions use Nada as the fall back. That said, they want to cover themselves by making sure you have a substantial interest in the boat. That way if you default they can still sell the boat and recover their interest.

Some things to consider about NADA:

• It does not know what comes standard with your boat. Example: if the boat came standard with a stereo then it shouldn't be added to the NADA value.
• It doesn't take into account the "percieved" value of certain items. For instance, if you have a 1980 boat but have 2007 motors. Yes you can add the "upgrade" price they have but it is a generic number and may not represent the "percieved value" of an interested buyer.
• If you go to the NADA website, unless you have paid for the commercial version, you only get the wholesale pricing and Average retail price, not the full retail pricing. Most dealers bring in boats at somewhere between the wholesale price and average retail, and then start their pricing somewhere around High Retail in order to make some margin.
• Nada does not take into account the region the boats are sold in. For instance, the selling price of a premium bass boat in Oregon is likely much different than it is in Arkansas.
• There is also verbage in the NADA book about the condition of the boat. Very well maintained and excellent condition boats can get an additional 10%-15% value added.
• Also, there are other fine print adders like 10% for galvanized vs. steel trailers. I think it's 15%-20% more for aluminum vs. galvanized and various other little adders.

As with other markets, what it is worth and what it sells for can be two different things. Someone in the real estate business once told me, there is the "sell it now price" and the "sell it later" price. It all depends on how much patience you have. This is true with boats as well. If you're looking for the ONE special buyer who understands fully the value of the boat then you may have to wait quite awhile to find him but he will eventually come. If you need to get it sold right away then you'll have to weigh the options of time vs. return.

Hope that helps a little.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Here's is what my thoughts are on this subject. Are you crazy getting rid of a Grady for an aluminum boat!!?? Your Grady will hold it's value much longer than a tin boat IMHO and maybe NADA's too. No disrespect but this would seem to me a step backwards both in boat quality and boat dollars. Like buying a mobile home instead of a site built home as an example. (no disrespect to Kujo intended). I guess I just don't understand.

[Weather or Knot]

" ....impulse buyer..." WALK AWAY FROM THE CHECK BOOK BEFORE YOU DO SOMTHING SILLY! You got a nice Grady there set up the way you want it. Nothing against Kujo's boats!
Brandon

[Bob5292]

I dont know there Catch and Eat. There are lots of guys that got into Aluminum boats 10+ years ago and thier boats are worth more now that what they paid for them. You can't say that about many glass boats.

Bob

[Seefood Man]

The BIG question is when/if you do sell your Grady will Jen allow you to change your moniker?

[olybirds]

Originally Posted by Bob5292

I dont know there Catch and Eat. There are lots of guys that got into Aluminum boats 10+ years ago and thier boats are worth more now that what they paid for them. You can't say that about many glass boats.

Bob

I agree. My 4 year old 20' Alloy boat just sold for $3000 less than I paid for it. Compare that to a 4 year old Grady vs new....

In general I think alloy boats hold their value much better here in the NW. They require less power to run vs glass, they are more fuel efficient than the heavier glass boats. Will never have Rot issues like most glass boats with wood stringers(including Grady). Alloy is said to be about 5-10X stronger than glass... But, then theres the other trade offs of ride quality, cold, and more maint to keep em "looking new". Plus we all have to agree that the lines of a nice glass boat are very easy on the eyes...

[Reelentless]

Originally Posted by ripnlips1

Why would anybody buy your 18 year old boat for $45,000 when Capt KJ is offering to build an aluminum fishing machine for $50,000?

For the same reason I would buy a 20 year old Mercedes over a brand new Kia.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by Bob5292

I dont know there Catch and Eat. There are lots of guys that got into Aluminum boats 10+ years ago and thier boats are worth more now that what they paid for them. You can't say that about many glass boats.

Bob

Hang on a second. I am refering to Grady's only. Not all glass boats. I question why get rid of a Grady and purchase an unproven tin boat without a name in the industry (yet). Just thinking out loud and certainly no disrespect to Kujo. That's all.

[5-Cents]

Im heading the other way most likely, going from metal to glass. Out on the big pond is where the glass boats really shine. There are a number of glass boat makers that are using different materials to save on weight and improve strength.

I am currently looking at an Edgewater center console. The boat is unsinkable due to the way they construct the boat... single piece infusion with vinylester resin, ariex foam coring and engineered knitted fiberglass. The deck and hull are 1 piece - no wood is used at all. I guess you could break it up into a 100 pieces but the 100 pieces would float! This construction method makes the boat 20% lighter than traditional fiberglass construction and up to 50% stronger. I have also seen a number of builders using kevlar in their construction.

Maybe I'm wrong but as I'm getting older that "metal" ride is getting a little hard on the body! I would imagine I would have a tough time going back to metal from glass. I had the pleasure of riding along with Nalu a few times and the ride of that Grady really sold me on getting glass the next time!

[backlash442]

5 Cents, the reason that heavy glass boat rides better is because it is heavier vs. a lighter fiberglass boat. As an example a 25' Trophy imo does does not ride nearly as nice as a heavier boat in the same length or even a shorter boat like a Davis. I hate to say smaller because the 22's are heavier than a 25' Trophy.

Alum. vs. glass. I keep going back and forth on this one myself. I love the lines of some of the alum. boats out there. I think I'd look at Motion Marine and even Capt. Kujo's boats. Almar as well. Only glass boat I'd look at is a Davis. IMO one of the best small boats built on the west coast. Oh and there is no wood in them and they're all hand laid glass.

[Pau Hana]

Originally Posted by backlash442

5 Cents, the reason that heavy glass boat rides better is because it is heavier vs. a lighter fiberglass boat. As an example a 25' Trophy imo does does not ride nearly as nice as a heavier boat in the same length or even a shorter boat like a Davis. I hate to say smaller because the 22's are heavier than a 25' Trophy.

Alum. vs. glass. I keep going back and forth on this one myself. I love the lines of some of the alum. boats out there. I think I'd look at Motion Marine and even Capt. Kujo's boats. Almar as well. Only glass boat I'd look at is a Davis. IMO one of the best small boats built on the west coast. Oh and there is no wood in them and they're all hand laid glass.

22' Cortez is 4300# dry
25' Trophy is 5400# dry

Hell, even my 2002 24' Trophy weighs in at 5200#

Where did you get your info?

Harold Davis puts out a great boat, bet even he'd agree that a 22' LOA won't rise as well as a 25' LOA boat- it's basic physics.

It's not just the glass- it's also the hull construction, deadrise, etc that will give you a good ride on the pond.

[Grady252]

WOW... now that was good conversation once we got over the value thing..... If I have to take a big loss on the Grady for sure I will not do a deal with KJ.... then the cost of that boat goes up if you consider the loss.....

I feel my Grady is a great boat, and I think anyone would have a hard time finding the same package.... look at these boats even in Florida.... 20K without trailer and older motors.... pay transport, get new alum trailer, re-power plus electronics and you will spend more than I am asking, and you will have to do a lot of work to get it.....Look at used stripers, look at used Trophy's and compare.... and factor in the Grady name (snob)....

As for beam towing a 9'3" boat..... no problem.... the permit is 8.50 per year, and this regulation is rarely enforced if at all especially on a boat that doesn't appear grossly oversized.....

You all got me thinking and I thank you all for the input.... I will weigh it all out, and go look at KJ's boats and prices and see where I go....

My real plan was to keep this boat for another year or two and then upgrade to a newer Grady 282 Sailfish...... but things changes and I try to keep an open mind.... Tin boats.... Glacier Bay.....

I do love how my Grady handles, and I would hate it if I ended up in a tin boat that beat me to death.... with my rosie colored glasses, I had myself convinced that a 26' 10' beam, 20 degree dearise like Pilar's would be heavy enough and sharp enough entry that I could get away with it. I do not like pounding......

Thanks again!

[tomictime]

it is pretty simple really

F=M X A

Force = Mass x Accel

So you should be able to work out what more or less mass does for you.

The bad news is A varies by position on the boat - you know this already, aft rides better, but consumes fishing room. Want a better ride, increase mass and or move aft, or change the hull geometry to decrease A (yes the SeaV2 hull does this as FEW near constant deadrise hulls both in glass or alu, steel or wood..or Kevlar..can do)

A (the variable ) not in line with thrust can be thought of as a proxy for ride quality....-A is not good also..

So, heavy plate alloy welded alu boats have a 10-15% weight advantage. They are also stronger, (this is a simplification, becuase one must specify what kind of stength..but hey, that's the advanced class which BTW, big and snobbish boat companies like Grady, actually hire Engineers for ......oh, and some small ones - the founder of Almar (retired ) was an aerospace engineer at the big B.....Boeing..so if you do not like physics, engineering or facts, skip flying!

Now let's consider the range of weights in production glass boats, esp those from builders with POOR quality control, they tend to use a lot of resin, which leads to a heavy hull, but no strength improvement...the range of production weight variability is greater than 10%, so given two quality builders..glass vs. alu does not yield a significant ride diference..

so why do they ride different?

Most heavy duty..West Coast alu boats have a pushed fwd pilot house or short foredeck to maximize fishing room..

ta-dah !!!!! no magic...

[tomictime]

you need to re-think a few more things...

26 X 10 is not better for ride. Wide = lots of fishing room, not better ride. MA's tend to shoot for fineness ratio of less than 3:1 ..IF they are optimizing speed and or ride quality..

Take a look at ratios for go fast monohulls, Cig, Fountin, etc..

Originally Posted by Grady252

WOW... now that was good conversation once we got over the value thing..... If I have to take a big loss on the Grady for sure I will not do a deal with KJ.... then the cost of that boat goes up if you consider the loss.....

I feel my Grady is a great boat, and I think anyone would have a hard time finding the same package.... look at these boats even in Florida.... 20K without trailer and older motors.... pay transport, get new alum trailer, re-power plus electronics and you will spend more than I am asking, and you will have to do a lot of work to get it.....Look at used stripers, look at used Trophy's and compare.... and factor in the Grady name (snob)....

As for beam towing a 9'3" boat..... no problem.... the permit is 8.50 per year, and this regulation is rarely enforced if at all especially on a boat that doesn't appear grossly oversized.....

You all got me thinking and I thank you all for the input.... I will weigh it all out, and go look at KJ's boats and prices and see where I go....

My real plan was to keep this boat for another year or two and then upgrade to a newer Grady 282 Sailfish...... but things changes and I try to keep an open mind.... Tin boats.... Glacier Bay.....

I do love how my Grady handles, and I would hate it if I ended up in a tin boat that beat me to death.... with my rosie colored glasses, I had myself convinced that a 26' 10' beam, 20 degree dearise like Pilar's would be heavy enough and sharp enough entry that I could get away with it. I do not like pounding......

Thanks again!

[Nalu]

tomic-

You bring up several good points, ones that many people rarely consider.

1. Helm position. Consider the helm position on a glass walk around versus most alum boats. It is typically both higher, and moved more amidship. Best riding spot on the boat is back by the transom, but having a helm amidship is much better than way up front. You lose up cockpit space, but you gain bow space ... casting up front might be a good thing...

2. Boat design. Everybody seems to get fired up that the "Grady boys" all really love their boats. Are they the best boat made? No, or not necessarily...but..... they have Ray Hunt designed hulls. They have tons of money invested in the strength, performance, ride, etc. Grady White sells expensive boats, but they also invest a lot not only in how they are made, but the design. All stainless hardware, etc makes a difference 15 years down the road.

So... As Jim notes, take an Almar aluminum boat. Some engineering geek also took the time to design it right. Maybe there was a reason the offshore bracket was done right with Almar off the get go?

How about Nautamatic Autopilots? More expensive, right? Well, maybe the fact that a literal "Rocket scientist" designed them. (With of course a chesire grin towards Tomic with his nautamatic experience) But the fact is, there is only 1 trolling motor autopilot, and bar none the Gladiator is the very best main engine autopilot on the market.

Glass versus aluminum? A really dumb debate. Designer versus designer.... now that's the competitive spirit.

[tracker]

When do tuna get here!

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by tracker

When do tuna get here!

Whenever they do, I'll be there first....... Striper+Single engine vs, Grady and twins?

We'll always have the first tuna tourney dave..

[tracker]

Yes and as I recall my crew and I beat you to them!

[Anadramous Junkie]

Originally Posted by Bob5292

I dont know there Catch and Eat. There are lots of guys that got into Aluminum boats 10+ years ago and thier boats are worth more now that what they paid for them. You can't say that about many glass boats.

Bob

Yep! I know a guy that guides on the Snake that has made money on every one of his Bentz boats! I personally have traded up several times with my tin cans and have never lost money either..

[Hoghunter]

Originally Posted by tomictime

it is pretty simple really

F=M X A

Force = Mass x Accel

So you should be able to work out what more or less mass does for you.

The bad news is A varies by position on the boat - you know this already, aft rides better, but consumes fishing room. Want a better ride, increase mass and or move aft, or change the hull geometry to decrease A (yes the SeaV2 hull does this as FEW near constant deadrise hulls both in glass or alu, steel or wood..or Kevlar..can do)

A (the variable ) not in line with thrust can be thought of as a proxy for ride quality....-A is not good also..

So, heavy plate alloy welded alu boats have a 10-15% weight advantage. They are also stronger, (this is a simplification, becuase one must specify what kind of stength..but hey, that's the advanced class which BTW, big and snobbish boat companies like Grady, actually hire Engineers for ......oh, and some small ones - the founder of Almar (retired ) was an aerospace engineer at the big B.....Boeing..so if you do not like physics, engineering or facts, skip flying!

Now let's consider the range of weights in production glass boats, esp those from builders with POOR quality control, they tend to use a lot of resin, which leads to a heavy hull, but no strength improvement...the range of production weight variability is greater than 10%, so given two quality builders..glass vs. alu does not yield a significant ride diference..

so why do they ride different?

Most heavy duty..West Coast alu boats have a pushed fwd pilot house or short foredeck to maximize fishing room..

ta-dah !!!!! no magic...

Damn Jim, you made my head woozy with all your technical jargon.

Kidding aside you make some very good points. The quality of the ride boils down to hull construction and how the deadrise is designed. I can't speak to some of the design process used in aluminum boats as I have zero experience on how they build them. I do believe though that design of most of the quality ocean glass boats (Fountain, Grady and others) have a better design and thus a better ride.

As I said in my earlier post, I've never had a boat that rode the way my Grady does. It handles the seas very well and to me is soft versus the pounding that I experienced with some of my older glass boats. The SeaV2 hull does ride very nice.

I also think it's important when buying a boat to look at the history of the builder and their reputation. I would never buy a boat where the design was untested and unproven. I think there's a reason why Grady has won the JD Powers award for customer satisfaction 7 years in a row. They not only design and build a great boat, but they back it up with superior customer service. That's my

[backlash442]

PH, I guess I should have looked up the dry weight before posting. My bad. However, the PH 22' weighs 4700lbs dry with gas and 5200lbs with a diesel so I guess I wasn't that far off. A 25' Rock Harbor comes in at 6400lbs. (gas) and 6900lbs. (diesel) Now that is apples to apples isn't it?

As for ride well I've ridden in both the boats (owned the 22 for 6 years) and know several others that have too and the ride is far superior in the 22' Davis than a 25' Trophy. So maybe it isn't the weight after all it's the hull design.

[Pau Hana]

Originally Posted by backlash442

PH, I guess I should have looked up the dry weight before posting. My bad. However, the PH 22' weighs 4700lbs dry with gas and 5200lbs with a diesel so I guess I wasn't that far off. A 25' Rock Harbor comes in at 6400lbs. (gas) and 6900lbs. (diesel) Now that is apples to apples isn't it?

As for ride well I've ridden in both the boats (owned the 22 for 6 years) and know several others that have too and the ride is far superior in the 22' Davis than a 25' Trophy. So maybe it isn't the weight after all it's the hull design.

Apples to apples, I'd want a comparision between the RH short cabin @ 5700# and the Trophy 2502WA @ 5400#.

Ridden in both, in both flat water and snotty seas- enjoyed the ride on both. The Davis would be perfect if I didn't have a family and could used the boat as a dedicated fish platform only.

In any case- the thread is about Gradys vs tin.

Hijack over.....

[Onokai]

As to just the NADA deal above-Rod has the most experience with that end-to put NADA in perspective when I bought my 1998 23 Boston Whaler outrage in 2002 I paid 40,500.-the NADA value was depending on some of the factors you put in was 23K. I looked at boats in 6 marinas from Santa Barbara to San Diego as well as all the boat traders and online boat sales. This 40K was a little less than most hulls in the same year range with a 250 motor-Nada is just a guide and nothing more-there where NO Whalers in the 23K range in the same years with the same motor-What i like to use NADA for is to show the county low value to base luxury tax on which send me a yearly bill just to have a few boats in the yard. There are some other boat value rating systems out there-Rod do you know about them and can you share?Mark

[northriver1]

Originally Posted by Anadramous Junkie

Yep! I know a guy that guides on the Snake that has made money on every one of his Bentz boats! I personally have traded up several times with my tin cans and have never lost money either..

I need you to handle my boat purchases and would be willing to give you all the profits.