My GSP is annoying the neighbors...any ideas?

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 07:52 AM

We received our second note from the same neighbor yesterday. The note states that our dogs "yelping and whining" is annoying. They state that they have 2 GSP's and "understand our situation" but that they need to keep their dogs inside all the time. Evidently this works ok for them since at least one person works nights and someone can be home all day.

This neighbor hasn't left their name, number, or address so I can't talk to them about it.

I know our dog gets lonely when we are gone...we put a bark collar on her, which I thought was working well. I have talked with our next door neighbor and they say our dog isn't that bad.

My wife used to work nights, and we know that it's tough to get decent sleep during the day, but how do they get any sleep if there are 2 dogs running around their house anyway?

Doggie Day care doesn't start early enough and is $350/mo. We leave for work around 7am and get home between 4:30 and 6 depending on the day. I built her a sweet dog house that stays about 15 degrees warmer than the outside air & plenty of toys. If I fill a kong with treats, they are still there when we get home.

Any ideas?

Thumper · 03-07-2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogPond

Any ideas?

You asked ......

Your ownership of the pooches entitles you to "quiet enjoyment" of them. That is, enjoyment in a way that doesn't drive the neighbors nuts.

If you can't control the barking, get rid of the dogs.

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 08:06 AM

maybe I wasn't clear...

I have one dog, she wears a bark collar. She doesn't bark. Evidently she whines. The other neighbors don't think it is that bad. How far do you go to satisfy one neighbor?

I understand your point. But what is the measure for "too much noise"? Want to tell eveyone to stop mowing their yards or their kids can't play in the yard because it wakes you up?

Herring Problem · 03-07-2008, 08:28 AM

Do you have a tape recorder that you can turn on for the time your gone. By recording the noises you may find it's not your pup but someone else's doing the barking or noise,
I did this for a complaining neighbor I had and recorded the fool aggrivating the animal to get him to bark. The recording shut the neighbor up reel quick when the Deputy sheriff and I played the tape for him.
Just a thinking outloud.

wthr4d · 03-07-2008, 08:32 AM

Its a very subjective line that is drawn and youa re in a difficult position. My GSP barked and whined when he was on the chain (very long chain but it kept him IN the yard). he didn't like being alone. You don't say how old your dog is or how much "other" interaction she gets when you are home. I would suggest that you spend more focus time with her when you are home and try to give her something that reminds her you will be back, when you are away. Our GSP always quit whining when our other dog was outside with him, companionship helps.

As for your neighbors, if you can't figure out which one they are and they wont tell you who they are then how can they expect for you to work WITH them to resolve the situation? do what you can, research what your legal responsibilities are and make an effort to solve your dog's issues.

paul

Pickles · 03-07-2008, 08:39 AM

I hate to say this, but maybe a second dog is in order! I had the same problem with my dog barking until I started putting my small inside dog outside with him during the day. It did take a week or so for my little dog to get used to being outside with my other dog. Now though both dogs are a lot quieter when we are not there!

Bootstrap Bill · 03-07-2008, 08:41 AM

butwhymalemodels · 03-07-2008, 08:46 AM

Post a note near the mailboxes that says getting unsigned notes is annoying you...

If it isn't a big enough issue for the neighbor to give you the courtesy of signing the note, then I wouldn't worry about it.

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 08:47 AM

Our dog gets treated like a QUEEN when she is with us. If I can get home before 6, I take her for a good long walk and launch tennis balls at the park.

She is supper sensative. We adopted her at 5. The story of how we got her is here

We will not "get rid of her".

STGRule · 03-07-2008, 08:50 AM

Portable kennel in the house while you are gone. Just make her an inside dog.

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 08:52 AM

I have thought about putting a note at the mailboxes or on all the doors of the people we don't know. I have flashes of sympathy, flashes of anger and a hard time not calling them C.S. for not signing their name. I would like to help, but part of me just want to tape ear plugs to their door.

The note yesterday, stated they "didn't want to call the cops, or report us to the HOA". The HOA bylaws state we can have pets as long as they aren't "annoying"...helpfull huh?

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 08:53 AM

We work in Corvallis and live in Albany. If I could be home at lunch to let her out, that might work. Having a dog crated for more than 4 hours is bordering on neglect.

whatugetemon · 03-07-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogPond

Our dog gets treated like a QUEEN when she is with us. If I can get home before 6, I take her for a good long walk and launch tennis balls at the park.

She is supper sensative. We adopted her at 5. The story of how we got her is here

We will not "get rid of her".

Here is a corrected link to the story of how you got her. Our little indoor dog used to howl and whine when we were at work until we started leaving the TV on Animal Planet for her.

I like the tape or video recording idea.

STGRule · 03-07-2008, 09:03 AM

I don't believe it is. Both my dogs stay in their crates all day. They just sleep. Even when I'm home all day (like today) they are still both asleep. They don't hate their kennels. They will go lay down in them even when they don't have to. And if they think we are leaving, they will race each other to kennel up. I'm thinking that if they thought is was horrible, or even mildly annoying, they wouldn't rush to get there.

garyk · 03-07-2008, 09:08 AM

I was going to say EXERCIZE, but you're already doing that....good -- "a tired dog is a good dog"

<by reducing mobility> Indoor kennel crates reduce stress and anxiety. The dog can't pace, jump around and get themselves worked up.

Perhaps there's a neighbor(s) that you could pay a few $ to, to come over daily at the right time to let your pup outside?

Jeremy · 03-07-2008, 09:11 AM

shouldnt be too hard to figure out which one of your neighbors has 2 dogs, go talk to them about it

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 09:14 AM

GaryK- An idea worth exploring...

A question about Crate training...She has a crate, she will go in her crate, but she does not like it at all. She thinks she is being punished, we tell her "good dog" and lots of treats, but she will hardly take a treat from us while in the crate. What gives?

Joe Schwab · 03-07-2008, 09:16 AM

Every dog I ever trained to crate was a happy dog. They love their space and it is not cruel.

Hellibut · 03-07-2008, 09:16 AM

Absolutely start with the tape recorder or even a video camera. You can't fix something unless you know it's broke and if it is broke how broke is it? Then take it from there. It reallys stinks that whoever is sending the notes won't sign them. There are probably more that won't sign something like this than would. It avoids the confrontation. While I don't really know that it matters, if they do go to the police you WILL at least know who it is. Sounds to me more like you want to rectify the situation than have a confrontation. I've been down this road and it's the main reason I moved out in the country. Try that recording and best of luck!

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

shouldnt be too hard to figure out which one of your neighbors has 2 dogs, go talk to them about it

I have seen this neighbor once in the year we have lived here. As stated in their note, "their dogs stay inside".

Seems like a waste of a couple of GSP's...but whatever.

STGRule · 03-07-2008, 09:23 AM

Have her go to he crate as a quiet place when she is in the house. Don't close the door, just have her lay quiet. After she figures out it isn't a punishment, she'll be better.

STGRule · 03-07-2008, 09:26 AM

I don't understand. Why would keeping them inside ruin them? Tons of people keep their hunting dogs as pets too. The dog is smart enough to know what is work and what is living in the pack.

Rustyoar · 03-07-2008, 09:33 AM

I agree on the create training, my German Wirehair stays at the side of our bed on her pillow from 6AM to 4:30PM no break never a mess when I get home to let her out, she is older though and don't know if it would work on a younger dog, BUT she was "created" when she was younger, try it they can hold it.

A whine can some times be worse than a bark IMO.

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STGRule

I don't understand. Why would keeping them inside ruin them? Tons of people keep their hunting dogs as pets too. The dog is smart enough to know what is work and what is living in the pack.

It's not that they keep them inside so much, it's that when I saw them, they didn't really look like GSP's they were more of a round shape, like me.

I am sure their dogs feel as much of their pack as molly does in ours. Molly is much more a pet than a hunter. If I had to choose I would rather that she was good on the leash, calm around other dogs and people, and was just as sweet and gentle as she is. I have taken her hunting with me, I have never thought that she was hunting for me because neither of us are very good at this point.

Forget I ever typed it.

1pump · 03-07-2008, 09:38 AM

I wouldn't take the neighbor's word for it. Maybe you can try sneaking into the house while your dog is still outside, and see how much she barks when she thinks you're not home. I know somebody that tried that, and it turned out that the neighbor (an older retired lady) was the self-appointed neighborhood noise-control officer, and most of the other people around had similar confrontations with her.

The crate and daily exercise theory worked for my Lab. She was kinda neurotic and didn't like being left alone. She was in the crate every day until she was about 9 months old, and by then I had her dog run finished. She stayed outside after that. Maybe she figured out early on that the run was preferable to the crate. And every night I ran the crap out of her to get rid of the anxiety and nervous energy.

My next-door-neighbor has 2 German Shepherds that bark almost constantly. They'e always outside, and about 15 feet away from my house. I don't particularly like it, but I don't let it bother me. And I work graveyard quite a bit. The only time it gets really bothersome is when I'm outside having a smoke and they decide to go nuts at some imaginary threat.
But on the other hand, they keep cats away from my property and nobody can get near my driveway unannounced. I like cats, but I don't like cat pee.

IMHO, noise and general annoyance is just a fact of life if you live in town, which is why I'm getting out of here when I'm done paying child support.

I'd much rather hear my neighbor's dogs than my other neighbor's 15 kids screaming all day long, or the constant construction on all sides.

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1pump

IMHO, noise and general annoyance is just a fact of life if you live in town, which is why I'm getting out of here when I'm done paying child support.

I'd much rather hear my neighbor's dogs than my other neighbor's 15 kids screaming all day long, or the constant construction on all sides.

wish you were my neighbor.

I would love to find a half to 20 acres NOT in a subdivision...anyone want to buy my house?

butwhymalemodels · 03-07-2008, 09:43 AM

I know there are a lot of good things about crate training.

My beef with it is this: I can guarantee that my dog, when left to her own devices for 9 hours at a pop, will NOT sit in the same 5 square foot area. She will get up and move around.

Our crate is now broken down, with the top half turned upside-down and set into the bottom half. She runs in there every morning when we leave the house. We give her a treat and leave. We can walk through the garage, and look in the bedroom window and she is already on the bed.

Funny thing is, she used to bark in the crate all the time. Since we started giving her the run of the house, the neighbors have started asking if we got rid of our dog.

STGRule · 03-07-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

....they didn't really look like GSP's they were more of a round shape, like me.

That would indeed be a ruined dog. Overweight dogs are not happy dogs.

STGRule · 03-07-2008, 09:47 AM

I would much prefer being able to let them hold down the bed while we are gone, but boy-dog gets bored and I find he has removed things from where they belong and chewed them up. So kennels just work better for us. But we can and do leave them out of we are only going to be gone a couple hours.

CombinationLicense · 03-07-2008, 10:01 AM

FrogPond - After the way Molly came to you, I know you can't even think of getting rid of her. I can relate since we have a "Molly" that came to us in an amazingly similar way. There have been some great ideas posted that should help you figure it out. I like the video tape idea so you can see what's really going on when you're not home. The crate idea is viable too especially if you could have someone let her out during the day.

If the tape shows that there really is a problem, there might be some other things to try. We have used a couple of different kinds of bark collars over the years and quality definitely makes a difference. Spending the extra money on one that's "Smart" is worth it. I know it goes without saying that you have water for the dog outside but maybe a familiar/comfortable place would ease the anxiety? I leave our crates outside and the dogs crawl in them all the time to snooze. Try throwing an old sweatshirt that smells like you in it and see what happens.

Finally, you should check into the regulations that could potentially be used against you. In my county, the reporting party IS NOT necessarily disclosed to you after a complaint is made to animal services. Check out the county/city/hoa codes for yourself so you can prepare a defense if necessary. Also, keep in mind that if necessary you can fight fire with fire. There are county/city/hoa rules governing almost ANYTHING that can be considered a nuisance these days. Once you identify who turns you in, play their game. Their grass is too long, call the HOA. Car parked on the street, call the city. Rubbish or illegal storage around the house, call the county and so on. It would obviously be my last resort but all's fair in love and war.

"CL"

uhmw · 03-07-2008, 10:11 AM

a doggie door so the animal can choose outside or inside.

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 10:17 AM

I just talked to my wife, who is home today. 11:00 Molly was in the yard running between all 4 corners facing the fence, whining. The whining started soft but grew in volume. 15 minutes was enough of that so she let Molly know she was home.

I told her to leave Molly outside, so she wasn't rewarded for that behavior...???

So, my neighbor has a valid complaint... I want to make this better!

butwhymalemodels · 03-07-2008, 10:24 AM

One note of caution on the videotape/recorder (although I guess now, you've caught the dog in action)...

Our pup used to actually break out of her kennel. We left the camera on a bench so we could see how she did it. Somehow or other the camera quit recording before she broke out, but turned back on as she was eating our digital camera.

Make sure you put it out of the dog's reach.

Reel_Big_Fish · 03-07-2008, 10:28 AM

We have a lab who has severe separation anxiety, I know it's not the same situation. We met with someone at the humane society and they suggested using an herbal pill to calm him down along with a D.A.P. spray. The spray is a ferimone that is similar to what a mother dog lets out and calms them. We spray his collar and around the entrance to his kennel. I've definitely noticed a difference in our dog with the pills and spray. We still have a lot of work with our dog, but those things have seemed to help.

I don't know how much this post helps in your situation. But the spray may calm Molly down a bit. They are both sold in the pets stores, but we found them online much cheaper. PM me if you want the site.

garyk · 03-07-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by butwhymalemodels

I know there are a lot of good things about crate training. My beef with it is this: I can guarantee that my dog, when left to her own devices for 9 hours at a pop, will NOT sit in the same 5 square foot area. She will get up and move around. ...

Good point.

I would add that in this case, using a crate, we're modifying behavior....reducing the stress level that running free outside accentuates.

Over time (how much depends on the dog) I'd hope you would be able to do away with the crate entirely. I wouldn't expect that you'd have to use the crate the dog's whole life.

northriver1 · 03-07-2008, 11:28 AM

Put her and her bed in the garage during the day and see where that goes. A pain but running out of options. Hint, put things of value up high.

Darn Josh sorry to hear the news.

wsuweston · 03-07-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogPond

Our dog gets treated like a QUEEN when she is with us. If I can get home before 6, I take her for a good long walk and launch tennis balls at the park.

She is supper sensative. We adopted her at 5. The story of how we got her is here

We will not "get rid of her".

Maybe she whinnes because she is so spoiled? Do you normaly give her attention if she whines when you are home?

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsuweston

Maybe she whinnes because she is so spoiled? Do you normaly give her attention if she whines when you are home?

she doesn't whine, bark, anything while we are home. I am not going to say she isn't a tiny bit spoiled.

D3smartie · 03-07-2008, 11:39 AM

my dog is spoiled too but also I leave her inside all day... but i dont have a GSP. I would crate her inside, but then again I wouldnt have a shorthair.
Good luck.

Reel_Big_Fish · 03-07-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogPond

she doesn't whine, bark, anything while we are home. I am not going to say she isn't a tiny bit spoiled.

Thinking some more, maybe Molly has separation anxiety? Does she following you guys around the house constantly? Will she stay in a room by herself longer than 10 minutes?

Our lab doesn't bark or anything when we are home. But once he knows he's by himself, he turns into a different dog.

FrogPond · 03-07-2008, 02:19 PM

She most definately has separation anxiety. She follows us constantly, even sits at the edge of the kitchen when we run her out. She rarely stays in a room other than the one we are in for very long. She does on occasion sleep downstairs through the night. She has dog beds both up and downstairs.

Reel_Big_Fish · 03-07-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogPond

She most definately has separation anxiety. She follows us constantly, even sits at the edge of the kitchen when we run her out. She rarely stays in a room other than the one we are in for very long. She does on occasion sleep downstairs through the night. She has dog beds both up and downstairs.

Since that's the case, it isn't going to be an easy fix. We've been dealing with it for the past 9 months. Only the past month though, we've actually been working hard on it. That was when we talked to a specialist. It's going to take time. I'd give those 2 options, that I PM'd you earlier, a try. There were some other things also, but I would have to look at my wife's notes as I don't remember. Let me know, if you would like those.

What is your main goal for Molly? Our's is to have our dog be an inside dog while we are away. Although he wouldn't be inside for 8-9 hours a day, as I usually go home for lunch.

Cat n Tat's Dusky · 03-07-2008, 03:58 PM

And today's stupid question is........what is a GSP?

Cornbread · 03-07-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat n Tat's Dusky

And today's stupid question is........what is a GSP?

German Shorthaired Pointer

Trick · 03-08-2008, 06:59 AM

Crate training is the way to go. We crated our Rhodesian mix for the first year and it worked wonders. This dog has a bladder of steel and has only had a couple accidents in her first 5 years.

We have a minature weiner dog that is getting up there in years and isn't very blessed in the potty manners department. After we were done crate training the large dog, we decided to put the weiner dog in it when we were not home. Zero accidents and she doesn't mind getting in it. She has a safe quite place to chill without the big dog picking on her.

I'm a huge believer in it. I thought it was cruel, but the vet convinced me to try it and his has made for a super quite and clean house!

Chrome Bumper · 03-08-2008, 07:38 AM

Dogs are denning animals, hours spent in a crate is OK. It may a while for them to get used to it, esp if you ever used one as punishment. Our dog will nose the crate door open and run right in when we point at it or say 'get home'.
We park him in it on wet days when he comes inside while he drys.

Lucky for us Po'boy is too fat and lazy to bark or chew.

Best learn to get along with the neighbors.

rowmanholiday · 03-08-2008, 09:23 AM

Frog Pond,

I think it's cool you stepped up and took the time to see if the neighbor was correct or just being cruddy. My neighbors had annoying (loud barking) dogs and after a couple very civil discussions, they started keeping the dogs in when they weren't home. We still get along great.

Good luck, I'm sure you will get it figured out.

jokester · 03-08-2008, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowmanholiday

My neighbors had annoying (loud barking) dogs and after a couple very civil discussions, they started keeping the dogs in when they weren't home. We still get along great.

I think that's a big key here. As mad as you are about no one signing their name to the note (and i'll agree...that is kinda sleezy IMO) always try to keep it civil as much as you can. As soon as you find out who the neighbor is, go speak with them and have a general discussion about it. If you see that's not working, then start playing hard-ball, but if theyr'e willing to work nicely on the issue, then that's the best way to resolve a conflict.

You never know how long you're going to have to live by these people...

-jokester

Joe C · 03-08-2008, 09:51 AM

An indoor crate ought to help (as dogs are den animals).. but she still may get the seperation anxiety (as dogs also are pack animals). Some breeds tend to be a bit more needy than others. We have a springer spaniel who got it really bad.

We picked up a litle pound puppy 7 years ago (who she hated at first) and they eventually got to be close. They never go anywhere without each other now, and they never whine when we leave. There's defintely something to be said for companionship for lonely dogs. Downfalls are twice as many vet bills, food, and poops to pick up. The plus is that I really feel safe having two dogs bark when someone knocks on the door to see if anyone is home.

Chrome Bumper · 03-08-2008, 06:11 PM

GSH are a kind of a needy active breed in general IMHO. When my wife and I both worked away from home our dog at the time got pretty manic.
Hate to say it but maybe the dog needs a home where someone is around during the day. A buddy dog would be an option too.

98ramtough · 03-08-2008, 06:22 PM

What kind of bark collar are you using? Are you sure you have it on tight enough? I have 2 dogtra bark collars and they work period. If they whine they only get a couple little whines in, then it is quickly followed by a yelp and SILENCE... We also got nasty notes in our mailboxes at our old house, turns out it was not our dogs. I had a neighbor come over one day with toys and made loud noises right in front of our dogs, they didn't bark at all.
Anyway, if you do not have a dogtra bark collar, you may try that. I tried the cheap ones, and they are no good.

Reel_Big_Fish · 03-08-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trick

Crate training is the way to go. We crated our Rhodesian mix for the first year and it worked wonders. This dog has a bladder of steel and has only had a couple accidents in her first 5 years.

I would disagree with crate training being the way to go. Only because of the separation anxiety. Here is some information that won't necessarily work with separation anxiety animals.

What Won’t Help a Separation Anxiety Problem
• Punishing your dog. Punishment is not an effective way to treat separation anxiety. In fact, punishing your dog after you return home may actually increase his separation anxiety.
• Getting another pet as a companion for your dog. This usually doesn’t help an anxious dog because his anxiety is the result of his separation from you, his person, not merely the result of being alone.
• Crating your dog. Your dog will still engage in anxiety responses in the crate. He may urinate, defecate, howl, or
even injure himself in an attempt to escape from the crate.
• Leaving the radio on (unless the radio is used as a “safety cue,” as described above).
• Training your dog. While formal training is always a good idea, it won’t directly help a separation anxiety problem.
Separation anxiety is not the result of disobedience or lack of training; it’s a panic response.

FrogPond · 03-09-2008, 08:45 AM

We have a sportdog bark collar. We noticed a marked improvement immediately after the introduction to the collar. We noticed that she would whine and run around (checking all the doors, gates & whatever) then bark and you could see the change. She would just go lie down at that point. My thought was that the collar was stopping her from getting to worked up.
I guess she has found the threshold of the collars capabilities...

Well, we have been having her lay in her crate while we are home and leaving her for short periods in her crate and rewarding her while she is there...hope this works.

jfa686 · 03-09-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat n Tat's Dusky

And today's stupid question is........what is a GSP?

thank god i wasn't the only one..get another dog..they are pack animals by instinct...one of my two dogs passed at an early age and the survivor started to show behavior prob's immediately. look into adoption at your local shelter. IT DID HELP..even though I guess it's not supposed too

STGRule · 03-09-2008, 02:28 PM

Getting a second dog helped our first one with the separation anxiety too.

rimrock · 03-09-2008, 07:01 PM

Hope things work out for you and your dog FrogPond. Crate training is a good step. Best of luck to you!

stayer · 03-09-2008, 08:54 PM

Please get another dog. My neighbor has one and when ever she leaves it in its kennel, we hear non stop whining. It is so bad. The day I was thinking about talking to her about it, I heard on the radio that animal control was no longer responding to noise complaints because of budget cuts. If you�re not sure if it is your dog, the tape recording is a good idea.

Spindrifter · 03-10-2008, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STGRule

I don't believe it is. Both my dogs stay in their crates all day. They just sleep. Even when I'm home all day (like today) they are still both asleep. They don't hate their kennels. They will go lay down in them even when they don't have to. And if they think we are leaving, they will race each other to kennel up. I'm thinking that if they thought is was horrible, or even mildly annoying, they wouldn't rush to get there.

Chrome Bumper · 03-10-2008, 07:01 AM

If the dog separation anxiety the crate might not work, if its just kinda hyper/bored it might.

Good luck.

jvp · 03-10-2008, 07:44 AM

vets and trainers will tell you 8 hrs is too long in a kennel. we use an xpen and block off the kitchen and leave a dog bed to sleep on.