Paying Road Taxes on our Boat Gas?

[Good-Times]

One other issue we need to rally together on. If you’re a farmer and you buy gas & diesel for your tractor you can buy your fuel without paying the road taxes since your not using the roads.

I think it would be nice if I can pull into a gas station put the 100 gallons I need to fill my boat and not have to pay the road tax on that fuel since on a good day this boat only goes down the road on a trailer and the fuel I buy for the tow vehicle is paying for those taxes.

Has anyone got this figured out yet?

[olybirds]

Theres a refund thats available in Washington, theres a form that you fill out at the end of the year, keep your reciepts for boat gas, and you can submit for a refund from the state.

But you need to use more than 87 gallons/yr to qualify.

Heres a link to get you pointed in the right direction...
http://www.pointrobertsmarina.com/re...ry/gastax.html


I did a little research on Oregon, and all I could find was refunds for Commercial Boat use.

[flapbreaker]

Since I trailer my boat I figure I am using the roads. Different story for moored boats though.

[Grady252]

Originally Posted by flapbreaker

Since I trailer my boat I figure I am using the roads. Different story for moored boats though.

That one doesn't work for me..... The fuel burned is not on the road.... When you tow a utility trailer, equipment trailer, or Toy hauler, you don't pay extra road tax, so why would you pay extra road tax to tow a boat?

[Chromaflage]

I'm with Grady on this one. Are you going to pay an extra fuel tax for your 5th wheel, travel trailer, utility trailer, toy hauler?

Just for state fuel taxes, we pay $0.24 per gallon (http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/CS/FTG/cu...ft_rates.shtml). Let's say your boat holds 150 gallons (mine does). So on a fill, that's $36.00 in fuel taxes. Let's say on average I burn 75 gallons per trip ($18.00 in fuel taxes per trip) and make 10 trips per year. That's $180.00 just in fuel taxes alone - not to mention registration fees for both the boat AND trailer.

Unfortunately, the OSMB is partly funded by a percentage of fuel taxes collected:

6. Can I get a refund for gasoline used in my pleasure boat?

No. Effective July 1, 1986, legislation eliminated the refund provision for fuel used in pleasure boats. An estimate of the fuel tax collected from Marine use is transferred to the State Marine Board for use in boating safety, law enforcement, and facility use. (ORS 319.415)

Source: http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/CS/FTG/refundfaqs.shtml

[Good-Times]

We do not pay road taxes on trailers under a GVW of 8000lbs if you are over 8000lbs you pay a seperate road tax because the fuel burned in your tow vehicle is paying for the road taxes for trailers under 8000lbs. I did not realize that the boats portion of the road tax money goes towards the marine board, I guess that all washes out to a degree.

[Chromaflage]

[/quote]

Originally Posted by Mike Smith

We do not pay road taxes on trailers under a GVW of 8000lbs if you are over 8000lbs you pay a seperate road tax because the fuel burned in your tow vehicle is paying for the road taxes for trailers under 8000lbs. I did not realize that the boats portion of the road tax money goes towards the marine board, I guess that all washes out to a degree.
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/vehicle/boats.shtml

This is where it gets confusing. You are right, sort of. According to the Oregon DMV, you only have to register your boat trailer if the loaded weight exceeds 8000#. But in order to obtain a title for the trailer with a loaded weight of more than 1800# you have to pay the registration fee. Clear as mud? Here's the info:

Boats & Boat Trailers
Boats
DMV does not title or register boats. The Oregon State Marine Board issues boat title and registration. See www.boatoregon.com, or call (503) 378-8587.

Boat Trailers
If your loaded trailer weighs less than 1,800 pounds, you do not have to title and register it or get a trip permit to pull it over public roads.

However, you may wish to obtain a title for your trailer. If the trailer is stolen, most law enforcement agencies and insurance companies will want to see proof of ownership.

All trailers used on the road must be equipped to meet safety standards. See the ODOT Vehicle Equipment and Safety page for more information.

For information about titling and registering boat trailers, see light trailers.

Then go here: http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/vehic..._trailer.shtml

Light Trailer Definition
A light trailer is any trailer having a loaded weight of 8,000 pounds or less, except trailers for hire (for rent), recreational trailers, special use trailers and fixed loads. Light trailers may include boat trailers or horse trailers.

NOTE: You do not have to register a light trailer (which includes a utility, boat, or horse trailer) or obtain a trip permit to operate it on the road if the trailer, plus the heaviest load it will carry, weighs less than 1,800 pounds total. However, you may wish to obtain a title for your trailer because most law enforcement agencies and insurance companies want to see proof of ownership if it is ever stolen. All trailers used on the road must be equipped to meet safety standards; see ODOT's Vehicle Equipment and Safety page for more information.

So my boat's loaded weight for a TUNA! trip is around 7500#. I titled the trailer when I bought it. What happens if I don't renew my registration and remove my plate? I know - I save $108 every four years.

[BrassMonkey]

I think the road tax sucks also but how about when you pump at the docks? Why is it so much more $, I was told it helps keep up marinas..etc?

[Puffin]

Originally Posted by Mike Smith

One other issue we need to rally together on. If you’re a farmer and you buy gas & diesel for your tractor you can buy your fuel without paying the road taxes since your not using the roads.

I think it would be nice if I can pull into a gas station put the 100 gallons I need to fill my boat and not have to pay the road tax on that fuel since on a good day this boat only goes down the road on a trailer and the fuel I buy for the tow vehicle is paying for those taxes.

Has anyone got this figured out yet?

A certain % of the road tax you pay goes directly to the marine board for upkeep of facilities and such You are already realizing a benefit from your gas tax in Oregon.

[jimsbuddy]

A certain % of the road tax you pay goes directly to the marine board for upkeep of facilities and such You are already realizing a benefit from your gas tax in Oregon.

Id love to see something in writing about this... thats like saying the gas pump station gets certain portion of there tax for them....

sounds like you guys are drifting from road tax in gas to registration fee... I agree with posters above... we dont pay gas tax on 5th wheel, or campers that are towed, so why on our boats???

[HugeDuckFan]

Washington retains $.01 of the tax for marine associated purposes.

My 365 gallons tank has been filled numerous times at the roadside pump. If they set up a refund system which retained some $$$ for marine purposes, it would far easier to rationalize and equitable.

My truck pays the roads taxes with increased fuel burn while towing...more than compensates for the trailer, and I don't burn 365 gallons towing for a weekend of fishing, but I will burn that much fuel running to tuna town a couple days in a row.

I can see it now...they'll add a tax at the Marina to pay for setting up Marine reserves. Be careful what we wish for.

[Chromaflage]

OK - let's say that .01/gallon of all gas sold goes to the OSMB. Gimme my .23 back then!

[Triple C]

Dan don't put that in writing. Those idiots in Salem will see it and use it.
I doubt they could come up with an original idea on their own. I wouldn't
put it past them though. Take away our fishing areas and tax us for it to
boot.

[jimsbuddy]

Oh but be assured, up front they will tell you its for this or that, and so we all agree, then they need the money because of cuts to feed grandma and other poooor people... thats when they will start to take it!!

[Chromaflage]

Just found this. 35% of the OSMB Revenue is from Motorboat Fuel Tax. I don't think boaters are going to get a break from this any time soon. My question is - what is a motorboat fuel tax? How does the state know when I pull up to the Safeway pump that I'm filling a boat, rather than my truck?

[Spindrifter]

Originally Posted by Chromaflage

How does the state know when I pull up to the Safeway pump that I'm filling a boat, rather than my truck?

[loper]

Originally Posted by Chromaflage

How does the state know when I pull up to the Safeway pump that I'm filling a boat, rather than my truck?

They don't know; but they do try to estimate it.

319.415 Estimate of tax on fuel used for boats; transfer to Boating Safety, Law Enforcement and Facility Account; use. (2)(a) The Oregon Department of Administrative Services shall estimate the amount of fuel described in subsection (1) of this section that is used to operate or propel motor boats by conducting a statistically valid, unbiased, independent survey of boat owners. The survey shall be conducted once every four years and shall be designed to estimate the average daily fuel consumption by motor boats and the total days of motor boat use per year. The survey shall be used to determine the amount of the transfer required by subsection (3) of this section for the first transfer that occurs after the survey is completed. If the tax rate changes during the fiscal year, the amount of tax to be transferred shall be prorated based on the percentage of total motor boat use taking place during each tax period.
(b) In years when no survey is conducted, the amount to be transferred under subsection (3) of this section shall be calculated by multiplying the per boat fuel consumption factors from the preceding survey by the number of motor boats as shown by the annual actual count of boat registrations. The resulting amount, in gallons per year, shall be the basis for the determination of the amount to be transferred.

[jimsbuddy]

Originally Posted by loper

They don't know; but they do try to estimate it. .

Oh yea sure, and I trust them on there estimates... Sure. hmm look at the Sky Tram project, just a little over estimates/budget...

Willing they have dedicated pumps, I would gladly fill at those stations, knowing it DOESN'T go into general fund, but back to my/our fishing and boating fun.

[Chromaflage]

Well, I posed the question to the OSMB. They send me a very interesting response rather promptly:

Thank you for emailing me, Kerry. You have a great question. When you purchase fuel from a marine fueling station, you are charged approximately 40-50 cents more per gallon. This money is put into a federal fund, and every year, the money is distributed to the states. A large portion of the Marine Board's funding comes from this federal fund. The following links give more information as well as how your boating dollars are spent.

I replied with a follow up question about how the Oregon State fuel tax factors into this.

[Chromaflage]

OK, that does it. No I know we're getting propped, shafted and whatever else. Check this out. Straight from the OSMB:

Hi Kerry,
Nope...we don't get any of the dollars from regular fueling stations, only marine ones.

Given the break out between state and federal, I now see the confusion! The motorboat fuel tax is actually from the Wallup-Breaux Boating Fund which is federal, and then given to the states. All states receive a fixed percentage based on that state's number of registered boat owners. Our portion is the 11.2 million. I'll change the category and list this under federal sources. Thanks for the catch and sorry for the confusion!
-Ashley

That said, I'm really confused now. According to the 2003-05 OSMB budget summary: http://www.das.state.or.us/DAS/BAM/d...5/F-Marine.pdf

Revenue
The Board has three major revenue sources. First, motorboat fuel taxes support 40 percent of the agency’s 2003-
03 budget. The Department of Transportation (ODOT) collects Oregon fuel taxes. Based on an estimate of fuel
taxes paid by boaters, ODOT sends a portion of those taxes to the Marine Board. The estimate is based on a
boater survey taken every four years. The budget includes an estimate of $10.9 million from this source. The actual
transfer will be made on the results of the latest survey, which is currently being completed.

The second revenue source is registration and title fees. These fees account for 41 percent of the budget. Fee
revenues plus miscellaneous sales and fine receipts are estimated at $11.2 million for 2003-05.
Federal Funds make up the Board’s third major source of revenue, around 19 percent of the budget. The Clean
Vessel Act provides money to develop sewage dump stations for boats. The agency receives Boating Infrastructure
Grant funds to pass through to local communities for facility projects. The Coast Guard’s Recreational Boating
Safety program pays for on-water law enforcement activities. The agency expects to receive approximately $5
million in Federal Funds during 2003-05.

So, which is it? Federal or State or an $11 MM surplus that not being reported to the public?

[Chromaflage]

Well, not sure if anyone cares any more after all of my previous confusing posts. But the gal, who is the PR person for OSMB was WRONG! Hillery Crew, who prepares the OSMB budgets, called me directly to discuss this. In a nut shell, here's what she said:

The state or OR collects $0.24 per gallon of fuel sold, wherever it's sold - on land or at the dock. There are surveys done every four years to estimate average daily motor boat fuel consumption. This is plugged into some formula that determines what portion of that $0.24 per gallon tax the OSMB is entitled to. This information is submitted to the Department of Administrative Services who authorizes ODOT to release the funds to OSMB.

Now, for every gallon of fuel sold there is also an $0.18/gal federal tax that gets sent on to the feds. Every state has this tax and it's dumped into a big tub. Part of that, based on a number of factors including the number of titled/registered boats in the state, is dispersed to each state in the form of a Coast Guard grant (in Oregon's case).

So, the OSMB does in fact get both state and federal fuel tax money - and there is no determination at the gas station or marina whether the fuel is for boats, vehicles or lawn mowers. So the jacked up prices at the marinas has nothing to do with fuel taxes.

There ya have it. I think I'm done with this one.



CrF
"Chasin' it down!"

[loper]

Of course we care!

Good work tracking that down

[HugeDuckFan]

Dang Chromo, remind me never to tick you off. You're tenacious. This coincides with the story I heard from the fuel dock at Garibaldi...no extra taxes, but the docks do have higher operating costs (storage, pumping, insurance) than land based fueling stations. I'd be curious to see what sort of volume they put up, compared to land based station. I'd expect land based stations pump a heck of lot more volume than a marina does, which requires higher margins to cover the fixed costs of operation.

[Threemuch]

On water fueling stations have little or no competition. That is why they charge more. They may have more costs, but not 50 cents to a buck a gallon (which I have seen). Go to a location where you have some choices, like, say the CR, prices are way less.

Frankly, I always thought the boys in Newport did a pretty good job at keeping prices reasonable. Plus their tackle and bait selection is excellent. G-town is another story.

[HugeDuckFan]

Originally Posted by Threemuch

On water fueling stations have little or no competition. That is why they charge more. They may have more costs, but not 50 cents to a buck a gallon (which I have seen). Go to a location where you have some choices, like, say the CR, prices are way less.

Competition can be factor, but you acknowledge my supply and demand arguement...there are more choices in some locations and thus, more demand, which brings the economies of scale into play. They move more product than many smaller facilities, and their fixed costs expense per unit/gallon is lower than the small outfits like Garibaldi. What's the spread...I dunno. You have to factor in overland fuel transport costs, different fuel taxes by city/county...in the end, you'll find that your boating habit is enriching Saudi Arabians & Oil company shareholders faster than ever. I just want my $.23 back.

[jimsbuddy]

[quote=Chromaflage;1886752]Well, not sure if anyone cares any more after all of my previous confusing posts.

There ya have it. I think I'm done with this one./quote] I do care, and thanks for persuing this. I have wondered this as well.

Originally Posted by Threemuch

Frankly, I always thought the boys in Newport did a pretty good job at keeping prices reasonable. Plus their tackle and bait selection is excellent. G-town is another story.

Yup I'm pretty sure It was Newport that I filled up one season, and was shocked... I think it was within $0.10 of what I had paid in town for fuel... When I'm in a small town, and there prices are close, I love to spread some $$$. I know small towns have small income, and rely on out of towners to help boost the sales.

[westcoastsrt4]

[/quote]
This is where it gets confusing. You are right, sort of. According to the Oregon DMV, you only have to register your boat trailer if the loaded weight exceeds 8000#. But in order to obtain a title for the trailer with a loaded weight of more than 1800# you have to pay the registration fee. Clear as mud? Here's the info:



Then go here: http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/vehic..._trailer.shtml

So my boat's loaded weight for a TUNA! trip is around 7500#. I titled the trailer when I bought it. What happens if I don't renew my registration and remove my plate? I know - I save $108 every four years. [/quote]

any trailer that is loaded over 1800 pounds its required to be registered,

[Bluefinn]

Newport is usualy .40 higher if you pay by cash they will sometimes reduce it .10 per gallon.If you get 100 gallons or more sometimes you can get another .10 off.I always ask.I have been known to use a couple gallons of fuel per season.I usualy fill up at the fuel dock. I see alot of guys filling there boat with gas cans.All this talk about road tax on gas .How come diesel at the dock is not taxed and gas is?

[jimsbuddy]

Originally Posted by Bluefinn

All this talk about road tax on gas .How come diesel at the dock is not taxed and gas is?

Oh so your saying my new boat should have a Diesel??? thanks