dont kill the seals

[duck_crazy101]

did you hear about the people in portland today that were trying to convince people that the seals shouldnt be killed

[Ryan Pultz]

[Bendman]

From an uneducated point of view I would be saying the same thing. I would be thinking that those Seals have been here far longer than you and I and yet the fish made it this far. But as we all know Man has created huge Salmon buffets (dams). So me thinks they need to go (Seals) But who am I to say, I'm not educated.

If the river was stuffed with Salmon no one would care how many fish were being eaten.

[Chesapeake]

I could care less about the salmon.

I'm woried about the sturgeon.

They should have the native tribes take care of them sealions. After all they had bean doing it for centuries till we told them they couldnt.

[Dullhook]

But as we all know Man has created huge Salmon buffets (dams). So me thinks they need to go

This would be wonderful my friend, but we have to realize that in this day and age removing all of the dams and locks just ain't gonna happen. Sea lions have become very adept at exploiting endangered andromonous fish runs and have wiped out 65% of the winter steelhead runs at the locks linking Puget Sound and Washington Lake. The average Sea lion will kill between 20 and 30 fish per day which we spend millions of dollars each year in taxes to protect. The fact is that seals and sea lions naturally belong out in the ocean where we can respect their rights as co-inhabitants of this earth.

I'm not a hunter but can tell you that if I build a chicken coop to house birds for the purpose of feeding the family, and some critter starts raiding it for an easy meal...he'll be dealt with. Although we built the dams and created the problem originally, they are there now and we have to protect our Salmon, Steelhead, and Sturgeon. Unfortunately other more humane methods have been tried with 0% success.

[Yooper Time]

I knew the sea lions ate lots of fish, but I have never seen it before. Some of the footage on the news last night was amazing to me. They are killing machines. Wish I could catch fish like that...20-30 a day.

It could be a great time for High Power-Rifle relocation of Seal's and Sea Lions in the river systems. As stated above, I'm not very edumacated myself.

[Dave Smith]

I was surprised to see that KINK radio had to give a little attitude on the subject during their "KINK considers" segment. That segment is normally so unbiased, but this time they said "they want to kill 30 sealions "just because" salmon have a commercial value and sealions don't". Ridiculous. An imbalance is an imbalance. What if nobody even fished for salmon, wouldn't any of the bunny gropers want to help the salmon in this case????????????

[Bendman]

Originally Posted by Dullhook

This would be wonderful my friend, but we have to realize that in this day and age removing all of the dams and locks just ain't gonna happen. Sea lions have become very adept at exploiting endangered androminous fish runs and have wiped out 65% of the winter steelhead runs at the locks linking Puget Sound and Washington Lake. The average Sea lion will kill between 20 and 30 fish per day which we spend millions of dollars each year in taxes to protect. The fact is that seals and sea lions belong out in the ocean where we can respect their rights as co-inhabitants of this earth.

I'm not a hunter but can tell you that if I build a chicken coop to house birds for the purpose of feeding the family, and some critter starts raiding it for an easy meal...he'll be dealt with. Although we built the dams and created the problem originally, they are there now and we have to protect our Salmon, Steelhead, and Sturgeon. Unfortunately other more humane methods have been tried with 0% success.

Maybe that didn't come across correctly. Me personally, I would be the first in line to wax the Seals but as you know not all people agree. I certainly don't agree that we should be dictating what waters Seals can and can't be in. Shooting Seals that are eating Salmon at the dams is fine by me; telling them they belong in the ocean not in the river sounds a little wrong.

I realize that removing all the dams is not an option. I personally wish they were never built but what's done is done. Things have to be managed accordingly.


I'm pretty sure this seal thing has been hashed and rehashed a million times. Just not usually in the Hunting Forum. Sounds like main board stuff.


Cheseapeake, I certainly like the Salmon but I agree the Sturgeon is more at risk. Shoot away..

[boomguy]

I saw one yesturday (huge) around swan island. it was all i could do to try to scare it away. can you shoot them with paint balls or rubber darts or arrows without tips?

It was probably on its way up to sportcraft.

The fishery dept needs to try to recapture some of the spent money and put some tags up for sale or bid.

I saw the footage on the news and thought to myself about making key ring floats looking like seals with bullet holes. I bet you guys would enjoy that.

remember to take a kid fishing.

[Dullhook]

Bendman:

I would be the first to agree with you that we shouldn't be dictating where any animal should or should not live if that is their natural habitat. The fact is that the only reason that they swim many miles up fresh water rivers is take is take advantage of an unnatural food source that we have unintentionally but in some cases necessarily created. These are salt water animals...and like all other carnivores (including ourselves) are opportunistic feeders. I personally don't believe in killing any of God's creatures unless it's for food or some type of a protection issue. In some cases we have to make difficult choices. We really have to protect our salmon, steelhead, and sturgeon.

RANGE/HABITAT: California sea lions are found from Vancouver Island, British Columbia to the southern tip of Baja California in Mexico. They breed mainly on offshore islands, ranging from southern California's Channel Islands south to Mexico, although a few pups have been born on Año Nuevo and the Farallon Islands in central California. There is a distinct population of California sea lions at the Galapagos Islands. A third population in the Sea of Japan became extinct, probably during World War II.
BEHAVIOR: California sea lions are very social animals, and groups often rest closely packed together at favored haul-out sites on land, or float together on the ocean's surface in "rafts." They are sometimes seen porpoising, or jumping out of the water, presumably to speed up their swimming. Sea lions have also been seen "surfing" breaking waves. California sea lions are opportunistic eaters, feeding on squid, octopus, herring, rockfish, mackerel, and small sharks. In turn, sea lions are preyed upon by Orcas (killer whales) and great white sharks.

[simpleguy]

Maybe we should offer to eat them. That way we are not wasting the resource.

hmm.....grilled California Sea Lion..........Smoked California Sea Lion

[Thehunter]

Do seals eat good?

[stlhdr1]

According to this article below, they're good for dog food....

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1001/p...gn.html?page=2

Or, if we could get them before they become life size..... Read below:

http://network.bestfriends.org/anima...news/2437.html

This hunt looks fun....

http://weecheng.com/europe/greenice/.../hunt/hunt.htm

Keith

[RiverRogue]

Originally Posted by Thehunter

Do seals eat good?

Guys, we need to keep comments relating to seals and sealions creditable. Yes, there are seals. A problem yes, but not anywhere near the issue relating to sealions. ESA listed Stellar sealions. Protected to the extent they can be hazed and not harmed....period. Stellars are the ones identified taking the OS sturgeon. Hazing has been somewhat effective in getting them to leave. California Sealions are a different matter. Under protection of the Marine Mammal Protectioin Act of 1972, these are the ones wreaking so much havoc on salmon. Hazing has had little effect. With NOAA fisheries approval we may see up to 30 targeted for removal by lethal means. That is if legal challenges by In Defense of Animals, PETA, the HSUS, and who knows who else, are overturned. I believe the HSUS has already stated they will immediately file a court challenge. I am not optomistic for sealion removal this year.

[Bucolic buffalo]

Maybe they could be processed into bio-fuel. That should make the enviro's happy.

[Gun Rod Bow]

A few things to consider...

I may be off a little on times and weights, but not much.

Last year the Tribes caught a Male California Sea Lion at Bonneville in March. It weighed 551 lbs. The same CA Sea Lion was caught in May (I think) and weighed over 1,000 lbs.

In 2006, WDFW estimated there were 2200 Sea Lions (CA and Stellers) in the Columbia.

So ask this, how many salmon does a Sea Lion need to eat to not only survive but nearly double it's body weight?

10 salmon a day?

Times 2200?

Even if I am off by half, that's 10,000 salmon EVERY DAY.

Sea Lion predation is a way bigger problem than anyone is admitting.

[Bendman]

Dullhook, I don't know but I would imagine that they swam up to celilo falls way back in the day.

[fair hooker]

I'm all for controlling sea lions around an artificial impediment to endangered salmon such as Bonneville dam. I also agree as others have posted, the immediate and severe risk is for sturgeon more than salmon. What seems hypocritical to me is when circumstances bottle up endangered fish, we kill the sea lions, but then unlease a massive fishery in the area.

[Gun Rod Bow]

The whole idea that Sea Lions have always been there is wrong.

Sure there were a few, but remember. Sea Lions got protected along with the whales and dolphins. California Sea Lions have never been threatened or endangered.

Now their populations have exploded, and they have found an easy prey source.

Having 10 Sea Lions laying on the dock at Sportcraft in Oregon City is a last 5 year anomoly.

From this NOAA document:http://www.nwr.noaa.gov/Newsroom/Cur...08_02_2007.pdf

Less than a decade ago sea lion predation on returning adult salmon at Bonneville was
rare.

More info from ODFW here: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/SeaLion/faqs.asp

A Sea Lion bite was uncommon on Spring Chinook 10 years ago. Now just about every fish has tooth marks on it.

Remember, we have ESA listed runs of salmon and steelhead in the Willamette basin too, and the 10-12 at Willamette Falls could have even more potential to seriously deplete an endangered stock of fish than those on the Columbia.

The population has exploded and is impacting thousands of salmon every day.

[rimrock]

It’s probably too hard to say if they are impacting sturgeon or salmon/steelhead more. Yes, the targeting of those oversize sturgeons as the breeding population is a newer behavior and I easily understand the points made on those high risks.

This however might be "not seeing the forest because of the trees"…seal predation lets just say generally speaking at Bonneville are out of balance and it’s time for lethal measures. Hope it happens, but not holding my breath via the suits. Yikes.

[Critr Gitr]

Sea Lion .... Bonneville isn't in the salt from what I remember ....

They could just advertise in Louisiana for some cajuns to round em up - Need only advertise three things :

1) they are out of season
2) they eat good
3) they live North of the Mason "Dixie" line

[BIGALSURF]

THis should be pretty simple. Salmon are an endangered species, Sea Lions no longer are. Therefore we have to tear out the dams or kill the sea lions. Since nobody wants to pay more for electricity, sea lions need to get shot. Sad, but not bad.

[mpmax]

We need to 'coax' some Orcas into the Columbia/Willamette. They have little problem killing and eating even the biggest sealions (though the little ones are better tasting).

[PIR8 Hook]

Personally I like seal-veal & seal lion loins

[Dan360]

Not to mention that the seal/sea lion types are horribly rude animals. I was at the Aquarium near Seaside a few months ago. There is a seal feeding room where you can take some herring and feed the seals. One seal stared at me and made some sort of growl/bark and then splashed water on me. I chucked a herring at it at full speed and nailed him in the face. little jerk.

This last weekend, I was at the Oregon Coast Aquarium and a seal stuck its tail end out of the water and farted in my general direction. It was totally unprovoked. I had nothing to throw at it.

I am not a fan of these creatures.

[Ni!]

Originally Posted by Dan360

This last weekend, I was at the Oregon Coast Aquarium and a seal stuck its tail end out of the water and farted in my general direction.

I would have known what to say to it.

[BrianMaguire]

Originally Posted by PIR8 Hook

Personally I like seal-veal & seal lion loins

I wonder if they are any good to eat.

[Rank Amateur]

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

I wonder if they are any good to eat.

I hear they taste fishy!

[wildthing]

what do you suppose a good caliber would be for the ole water dogs? i'd say the old .30/06 would do fine, or maybe a slug.....

[Smoked Salmon]

Propaganda from either camp will do little to sway the undecideds in Portland. If anything, they will look at the argument, then look at their bank accounts, and decide they don't have the time to fool around with this and to do nothing is better than making a mistake of action.

In other words, they need to be convinced there is a problem, and that removal of a few sea lions will solve that problem. That will be tough, since it ain't true. Removal of the sea lions is a stop-gap measure, and it only should be undertaken if other measures will follow that more permanently protect the salmon. Habitat improvements, better flow regimes (both entering and leaving ocean) and more healthy water (temperature and pollution) are all things that should follow so that we can say, "see! Since you helped save those several hundred salmon, they were able to take advantage of these things we did to help them, and from now on there will be increased salmon returns and there won't be the dire need to kill their predators."

Not to mention how hypocritical it is for us to fish while proposing killing the sea lions...

At least, that is how the detractors see it.

[Blacktail Slayer]

I just found some of my notes from the Wildlife Society meeting with biologist from all over Oregon and a WA fish biologist. The WA fish biologist name is Jeff and I think his email is jeffrsjj@dfw.wa.gov
He mentioned that the sea lions didn't start moving up the river until their food source of smelt started to disappear. In 2002 there were 1,010 salmon killed by sea lions and 3,859 salmon killed in 2007. He said that this numbers are probably lower than what they really are. I believe that he also said that the sea lions take out 3-4% of the salmon going up the Columbia River. Both Oregon and Washington would have to know each individual sea lion and negative impact that one sea lion does before they would be able to kill that sea lion if the bill passes. This would be extremely hard, since the sea lions almost look the same, they would have to catch the same sea lions over and over again to mark and watch its negative impacts. This is because there is only 30-40 sea lions that are there the whole season with other sea lions that come and go throughout the season. Both departments would only be able to remove the season long sea lions that feed the most on salmon. Not all 2,000 sea lions go up to the dam, but it is still hard to monitor 40 sea lions out of all the ones that do go up to the dam. I would give him an email if you are interested in anymore information.

[Blacktail Slayer]

Dams, pollution, lack of beaver dams and beaver population, erosion, and other damage that we have caused over the past 100 years with our logging, mining, hatcheries, irrigation, grazing, fur trade, salmon canneries, and overfishing from the past(not the present except for overfishing) These all take decades and decades to fix themselves, but we don't really do much to fix them all the way. The rivers look a lot better than they did when white men first moved here and started to destroy them, but not as good as it was with just Indians in this area. I try to keep an open mind, but think the white man and politics will be the end of the salmon. We all like to point our fingers at each other and not get down to business. It is a shame the things like this get caught up in court for so long and the salmon end up paying for it in the end. I hope that we do find an answer before it is to late. I would highly recommend reading "Salmon Without Rivers" by Jim Lichatowich. This is a book that has everything about the salmons history and struggle by a fish biologist.

[duck_crazy101]

Originally Posted by wildthing

what do you suppose a good caliber would be for the ole water dogs? i'd say the old .30/06 would do fine, or maybe a slug.....

try that cross canyon elk rifle

[duck_crazy101]

Originally Posted by WatchYourBobber

KINK sucks now days even my wife who is pretty politically centered cant stand all the political commentary by thier DJs

this makes no sence to me i would figure that they would want to protect the salmon

[BlacktailBowhunter]

Wanna here a joke?

A baby seal walked into a club.

I know it is bad, but it was circulating when Paul McCartney went up to Canada to watch the baby seals get clubbed to death, and bring awareness to the practice, which I have no problem with.

[Flying Roast Beef]

Something that never seems to get mentioned is the fact that sea lions really don't have many natural predators left. I'm sure the orcas get a few but the popularity of shark fishing in the last fifteen years or so has pretty much removed all of the apex predators from the sea. I used to fish offshore out of San Diego when I was a kid and we saw some really big sharks. I still have friends down there and they tell me that nowadays you never see them.

[BrianMaguire]

Originally Posted by wildthing

what do you suppose a good caliber would be for the ole water dogs? i'd say the old .30/06 would do fine, or maybe a slug.....

For a head shot. Those are big creatures and far out weigh elk. i would imagine a barret would do the trick.

[PIR8 Hook]

Originally Posted by wildthing

what do you suppose a good caliber would be for the ole water dogs? i'd say the old .30/06 would do fine, or maybe a slug.....

this ought to do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY4hbTyhoxc

[salmonfisher77]

Beef
I Caught Many Very Large Makos Over The Last Few Years Out Of San Diego And Mexico So There Still Around!~!

[Flying Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by salmonfisher77

Beef
I Caught Many Very Large Makos Over The Last Few Years Out Of San Diego And Mexico So There Still Around!~!

Did you release them?

[Tri-Fecta]

Originally Posted by Gun Rod Bow

A few things to consider...

I may be off a little on times and weights, but not much.

Last year the Tribes caught a Male California Sea Lion at Bonneville in March. It weighed 551 lbs. The same CA Sea Lion was caught in May (I think) and weighed over 1,000 lbs.

The tribes do not catch sea lions on the Columbia river and the first sea lion captured at Bonneville last year was in April.

This stuff is easy to look up - just point and click.