Open letter to the people of Portland, Kids & guns in the house.

[Hunt'nFish]

Open letter to the people of Portland, Kids and guns in the house.

I keep seeing all sorts of references to kids and locked guns in the house. Like those that don't lock'em up are bad, irresponsible parents. I guess I come from a different time and place having grown up in a whole house full of guns.... many of them loaded.

I guess I have to ask what is the big deal? My ol'man taught us that they were NOT toys and we'd surly get our butts tanned for touching them w/o his approval. But there was always a 22LR propped by the back door standing guard over the garden. Yes, there was a loaded shotgun in the den and yes, he kept a loaded Blackhawk on the headboard of their bed.

Were we taught gun safety? YOUR DARNED RIGHT!

I have a couple young daughters. Have I continued the Knifong Clan training? You bet.
Kids are not stupid. And contrary to social belief, kids ARE smarter than the average hunting dog. And I figure if I can teach the dog to stay off the bed, I should be able to teach my kids the dangers and respect for firearms. They are a tool, no different than a kitchen knife or a car.

As a good parent, I expect to be held accountable for my kid's behavior. I wouldn't expect anything less.
I appreciate all your concern, but do me a favor....I'll worry about mine, if you'll worry about yours. DEAL?

Respectfully responsible,
Hunt'nFish

[Maverick Maxcat]

Well said!

[Old Guys Rule]

I AGREE!!!! Teach gun safety (40 years ago it was standard in junior high here in Oregon) to your kids, let them handle, load, unload, and shoot all your guns. Take the mystery out of it and give them responsibility. All the problems seem to go away.

[namu mac]

Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish

Open letter to the people of Portland, Kids and guns in the house.

I keep seeing all sorts of referances to kids and locked guns in the house. Like those that don't lock'em up are bad, irresponsible parents. I guess I come from a differant time and place having grown up in a whole house full of guns.... many of them loaded.

I guess I have to ask what is the big deal? My ol'man taught us that they were NOT toys and we'd surly get our butts tanned for touching them w/o his approval. But there was always a 22LR propped by the back door standing guard over the garden. Yes, there was a loaded shotgun in the den and yes, he kept a loaded Blackhawk on the headboard of their bed.

Were we taught gun safety? YOUR DARNED RIGHT!

I have a couple young daughters. Have I continued the Knifong Clan training? You bet.
Kids are not stupid. And contrary to social belief, kids ARE smarter than the average hunting dog. And I figure if I can teach the dog to stay off the bed, I should be able to teach my kids the dangers and respect for firearms. They are a tool, no differant than a kitchen knife or a car.

As a good parent, I expect to be held accountable for my kid's behavior. I wouldn't expect anything less.
I appreciate all your concern, but do me a favor....I'll worry about mine if you'll worry about yours. DEAL?

Repectfully responsible,
Hunt'nFish

[baltz526]

are you directing this letter to whiny urban dwellers, raised in suburbs, by the nanny state. if so, please use capitol letters, i don't think they get it.

[Hunt'nFish]

Richard, Yep.

[CombinationLicense]

"CL"

[spottedhawk36]

well said, i have taught my kids at a young age that guns are not a toy, they have respect for them because i have told them what they can do and they understand fully. educating kids is the ticket.

[Hunt'nFish]

Hey Bill........our welcome to print this in the Oregonian.
Hunt'nFish

[Big Billy]

I hope my kids don't ever need to use a loaded gun from my house but they are there in case they do!!! They know what to do!

[CamoHunter]

I agree...

Well said!

CH

[jr5575]

Absolutely!!! 110%

[Don Becker]

Just wondering, Mike (and others), how you control the element of the kids' friends that come to visit and are not as well trained as yours or the element of how easily kids (even grownups, sometimes) can be influenced by friends they wish to impress? Don

[No Fences]

I'm on your side,

[bo4elk]

I agree that we should teach our kids gun safety. I have done that. Last summer we had the entire baseball team over for a party at the house. There were little kids running everywhere, and parents too. I have no idea which if any have been educated in firearm safety. With three kids of my own, there are kids coming and going all the time.

I am absolutely not making any judgement on anyone else. I'm just saying that at my house, at least for a few more years, the only way I can be certain that an untrained hand doesn't pick up a loaded firearm is for me to lock them up.

[rimrock]

There is a world of difference between the good of teaching kids how to handle a gun, operate it, clean it, use it responsibility (YES)….and the stupidity of keeping one loaded openly lying around accessible to all in the house (NO).

Not on your side...come on it's not that hard. Print it in the Oregonian???

[SImudBogger]

Even responsible, well trained kids can get curious.

[Hunt'nFish]

Don, this is the one area where I think as responsible homeowners we simply have to lock them up. Yep I was a teenager once too, I know exactly the pressures your refering to. Fortunately back then my buddies knew my Ol'man would tan their hide just as quick as he'd tan my hide. Not so today. Mucho trouble can come from discipling another parent's kid.

As responsible homeowners, if we can't trust or control those in our home, we have no choice but to limit access. Ultimately I believe the only person responsible for what happens in my home is me....and my wife. Thier are many solutions out there that grant quick access for authorized users. It can be as simple as a push button pistol vault to something more technically complex.

And their are many that believe that a CCW belongs in only one place, and it is NOT the nightstand.
Hunt'nFish

[scottishsetter]

I don't have children;;;; but I agree with Don Becker; peer pressure is a serious threat to all your in home training for your children's safety. When guest children come into our home I lock up all guns and ammo[especially] although I usually save at least one to an un-accessable hide place.
It's a difficult situation, but if it's only for an afternoon I feel good about my measures.Stay safe.......

[bigjake_888]

I agree but it is not worth the argument with my wife. My guns are locked.

[rimrock]

Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish

Don, this is the one area where I think as responsible homeowners we simply have to lock them up. Yep I was a teenager once too, I know exactly the pressures your refering to. Fortunately back then my buddies knew my Ol'man would tan their hide just as quick as he'd tan my hide. Not so today. Mucho trouble can come from discipling another parent's kid.

As responsible homeowners, if we can't trust or control those in our home, we have no choice but to limit access. Ultimately I believe the only person responsible for what happens in my home is me....and my wife. Thier are many solutions out there that grant quick access for authorized users. It can be as simple as a push button pistol vault to something more technically complex.

And their are many that believe that a CCW belongs in only one place, and it is NOT the nightstand.
Hunt'nFish

I don't understand if your in favor of being a responsible homeowner and firearms, what was the point of your first post (the open letter) regarding have unattended load guns?

Like I said there's a difference between education/handling of guns and what your letter was about.

[ehunter]

I think one thing that is different is when we were kids Huntnfish every family I knew had a gun and were taught at a early age not to play with firearms. Our parents expected us to be responsible. Or else we visited the wood shed. We were also taught not to get into other peoples things.

The problem now is that other Jonnies and Sussies don't think guns are good so they don't train their kids with guns and if those kids can convince some other kid to show them they will. My kids were taught early like at 3 or 4 that guns were not toys I took them out and fired the guns so they knew what they sounded like and they are not toys. In other words I scared them until they were old enough to shoot and then they were taught to handle fire arms respectfully. My guns were locked up not because of my kids but other kids who parents tried to hide their head in the sand. Now I don't have kids coming around and I have a loaded firearm close by.

[Headhunter]

Mike,

Love ya buddy, just don't agree with it all. Teach your kids yes...want to shoulder the responsibility or guilt IF something were to happen to my kids or others....not so much. $10.00 trigger locks help me sleep better than a loaded gun at my bedside.

[Motor Mouth]

Originally Posted by bigjake_888

I agree but it is not worth the argument with my wife. My guns are locked.

Got my first gun recently since my buddy got tired of me borrowing his for ducks. Anyway, the ONLY way "that thing" was getting in my house was if it was locked in a safe. I threw in the trigger lock for good measure.

[cubsfan]

I see your point and agree it is an individual's decision. I, at one time, owned 14 guns (for me that was a lot). So I am an avid firearms enthusiast. If/when I have kids, they are getting lessons in firearms safety regularly as I loooooove to go shooting. But I will have to get them out of the safe to do the teaching! I had a close family friend who used his dad's rifle to commit suicide. I dont want to have that on my mind. I dont trust even the most responsible kid as guns are always an attraction for kids. You never know what other peoples kids are going to be up to either. I love that you spend such time with your kids educating them though! I bet you are a great parent!!

[GDuck]

Originally Posted by Don Becker

Just wondering, Mike (and others), how you control the element of the kids' friends that come to visit and are not as well trained as yours or the element of how easily kids (even grownups, sometimes) can be influenced by friends they wish to impress? Don

I agree with Don. Having personally cleaned up the mess professionally from guns left unlocked, I disagree with any unsecured guns. I agree times have changed and the fact we are living in a different world sucks, BUT...the liability alone spells ruin for you if your kid, a kid's friend, or a burglar gets your gun shoots someone. Imagine going to the store for milk and coming home to Life Flight in front of your house.....because a kid shot his pal in the rear with your AR15...actually happened. Same guy didn't learn and had all his guns stolen, most of which were never recovered. I might get shot with one of them. Gun safe for most guns if needed, Gun Vault for the handgun close by. Too easy and too cheap not to do.

Regards

GD

[Bob-Burr]

I agree with Hunt'nFish,
For those who say kids,other than their own are coming and going in your homes that might not have the training your own kids have had.
If you have people especially children in your homes perhaps you or the wife should be a bit more aware of where they are and what they are into while at your house or on your property. Any of you people have a pool,pond or other potentially dangerous things on your properties? We only have guns in the adult bedrooms and no children or other adults are allowed in those rooms. We don't have loaded guns just laying around every where. I always have a loaded gun with in my reach 24/7.
Anybody that keeps a gun for protection and keeps it unloaded might as well have a club in it's place for protection because a unloaded self defense gun is no more than an expensive club.
Any accident that has ever happened involving a gun is because someone was not responsible enough at that moment to prevent it from happening. If you feel you can not responsibly have a loaded gun in your home, please do not have one because it is people like you that the accidents happen to.
To each his own.

[HuntNFishAddict]

Originally Posted by Don Becker

Just wondering, Mike (and others), how you control the element of the kids' friends that come to visit and are not as well trained as yours or the element of how easily kids (even grownups, sometimes) can be influenced by friends they wish to impress? Don

Don,
This is very simple. Kids don't come over unless we are around. I guess I am sort of a throw back like Mike. I might be a little more antiquated in that Momma is home with the kids to make sure things are as they are supposed to be. We would probably be a lot better off financially as she is way smarter than me, if she worked outside the home, but this is how we choose to live and so far the kids are doing great.
Jason

[Don Becker]

'Anyone notice that I did not state my position on this? I'm just noticing what might be some, shall we say, "omissions" in the thought process here and asking questions for your consideration and further discussion . . . . of the issues, not my practices - - because, you don't know whether mine are out/loaded/unloaded/in a safe/all of the above nor do you know whether I ever have children in my home . . .

Here are the questions: 1) do you suppose that very cautious parent might have to take a bathroom break, answer the doorbell or any of a number of interruptions that might take him/her away from that constant surveillance and, 2) how long do you suppose it might take for a tragic accident to happen?

Don

[Fool4FishnHuntn]

Situations can arise very quickly even if guns are locked up. My children were taught at an early age about gun safety and it was reiterated often. I was raised in eastern Oregon on a cattle ranch and we always had guns around growing up, but as previously mentioned it is different now than it was then and being "in town" versus "in the country" makes a huge difference as well ( I know the title is to the people of Portland).

I lost my son almost 5 years ago to suicide. He was 19 years old and had been taught gun safety, etc. He had been around guns and hunting since he was a toddler. He broke into my gun cabinet and took my very first rifle. I didn't own a gun safe.

It doesn't have to be your children's friends. It can be your own! My recommendation is to take all the precautions in the world. I don't know if that would of made any differences in my case, but it sure wouldn't have hurt. I thought I had done the right things, but looking back maybe I could have done more. I don't blame myself for my son's death, but it sure would be nice to still have him around.

Everybody has to make their own decisons in how they handle firearms in the house. Times have changed and our old tried and true methods don't always work 100% of the time these days. My stance is to error on the safe side and keep them under lock and key.

[ghost grizzly]

K,
So if this is an open letter to Portlanders do you think it is gonna reach any of em? I don't think they visit this site?? So your point is??

[Quack Attack]

Originally Posted by ghost grizzly

So your point is??

Spread the word to your neighbors that every kid should know about gun safety, and never take safety issues lightly...

Good enough point for me.

[rimrock]

Originally Posted by Quack Attack

Spread the word to your neighbors that every kid should know about gun safety, and never take safety issues lightly...

Good enough point for me.

The original post is not about gun safety is it??? Throttling your children to the point one can “safely” keep loaded guns accessible to all didn’t work in the old days or today…like that works. My family still has a working farm/ranch and loaded guns weren’t and aren’t lying around so the country boy thing also is not neither here nor there...like that works. This thread from what I read was about advocating unsecured loaded firearms in the home, based on throttling children into compliance, being a “county boy”, or the good old days. That is at least how it read to me…or did I miss something?

If it had been about gun safety than it would have been a good point.

[uhmw]

I blasted a crow in my back yard for my ma when I was 12 cause it was crowing at her window in the morning. They still dont know about that stupid stunt I pulled 30 years ago(apparently gun fire in my Tacoma hood didnt raise any conserns). My dad was a huge anti gun preacher but he had gramps shoty hidden away in the attic where he though I wouldnt find it. I did a ton of absoluly stupid stuff my parents told me not to do. They should have locked up the guns mine are.

[6wapiti6]

Thank You!!!

[James in Idaho]

My 14 year old daughter knows how to use every gun in the house. But I still keep them locked up. I've come home to a kicked in door, man I still miss that Model 66 S&W, the lightweight 870 20 guage, the H&R .22, and the Model 1200 12 guage. Lived and learned.

[Threemuch]

This is a topic I feel strongly on, and I am going to share something I don't share lightly.

As a young man, I was involved in a shooting incident that resulted in a fatality (of my best friend) that was a direct result of having firearms and ammunition available to teenagers who knew better.

I knew gun safety, so did the my friend.

But you know what? Kids screw up. All the time. My best friend died of a self inflicted gun wound he got screwing around with his fathers handgun. I was permanently emotionally damaged as was the other young man who was there. I held my friend as he died, is brain and bits of his skull on my lap, with blood. I will never forget how much blood. The police took me away in handcuffs, interrogated me for hours. I grieve about it every day. I can return to that pain like it was yesterday.

If his father had put those guns in a locked safe, none of it happens, and my friend Andy Barra is still with me and all the other people who loved him.

I try to teach my kids the right way and the wrong way, just like my parents did. And sometimes they heed my words, but sometimes they don't. I have yet to meet the kid that won't occasionally disobey, especially when nobody is looking. I won't take that risk. Every firearm I have will be locked up when not in use. My ammunition will be locked in a different place. I hope you don't think less of me for it.

EDIT: I see I am not the only person on this thread relating personal tragedy or near misses. I hope that the folks here that read this take that into consideration.

[Hunt'nFish]

Kurt I'm so sorry to read this, I just don't know what to say.
Part of me wants to comfort and console, the other part wants to chew your butt out for goofing off with a gun. Gun safety, yeah that gun safety really sunk in huh?

So where do we draw the line? Remove every possible danger our kids may be exposed to?
Or REALLY teach them respect for these dangers?
Yes, Rimrock that was part of the point of my first post, parental gun safety responsibilities.

Many things in life are simply non-negotiables, like not teaching your kids about predators....and I don't mean coyotes and cougars.....I mean the 2-legged kind. Or like crossing a street without looking for cars first. Or getting drunk with friends and then getting into a car. Or a whole host of other dangers from sex to drugs. You don't play with guns....PERIOD! Just like you don't do those other things.

It sucks that society thinks that if your kid comes over to my house and starts playing with my firearms, loaded or not, that somehow it's MY fault that YOU failed to do your job. But that is the reality of it all. It's ALWAYS someelse's fault and it appears it's OUR fault, and I guess that was the other half of my first post's rant.

My girls are just about to enter the teen-ages. Many of these peer issues simply haven't been a problem for us up to this point. No, kids are not coming and going at will into/out of our home......YET. Generally speaking their is always a gun or two accessable, whether it be my gun belt hanging off the post of the bed, the wife's pistol or say my empty shotgun drying out over the heater vent. Most of our friends aren't particularly concerned but then their kids are young too. Perhaps we should have a discussion, and perhaps it is time for some changes. The rest of my guns are locked up.

I'll have to give all this some thought. I do know this.......there will be a loaded pistol handy to me and my wife.
And no, your kids shouldn't be in our bedroom. Do I need to lock it too?
Hunt'nFish

PS: Kurt, I'm really truely sorry that you had to endure a tragedy like that. I can only imagine what you must've felt.

[Threemuch]

Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish

I'll have to give all this some thought. I do know this.......there will be a loaded pistol handy to me and my wife.
And no, your kids shouldn't be in our bedroom. Do I need to lock it too?

That's EXACTLY where this gun was. Nightstand. Loaded .357.

Mike, thanks for your thoughtful response. It was a good bit more than 20 years ago, it's really incredible how painful it still can be. Time actually doesn't heal all wounds. I actually never touched the gun. But I didn't get him to put it away either. I knew it was wrong. He knew it was wrong. Sometimes kids screw up.

For me, the price of that screw up is too high. I don't want my kids to pay that kind of price, so my guns will not be accessible by them without supervision until they are adults, and frankly, they will have to prove it to me that they are responsible then.

[DevlinCackler]

I work for a company that deals with public safety and cannot agree with keeping a loaded weapon in my house, and I don't even have kids living in my home any more.

You will be surprised at the dangers I have seen with everyday ordinary consumer products designed to be safe, now a loaded weapon that is just an accident waiting to happen.

But to each their own, for every accidental discharge there is probably thousands of loaded weapons that nothing happens, I just don't want to be that "One"

DC

[Kencreep]

I watched a documentary on HBO about kids and gun accidents. Every person they interviewed said the same thing...

"I never thought it could happen to me"

"I didn't consider that the neighbor kid would be in my bedroom unattended"

"I kept the ammunition in a different drawer and didn't think they would load it"

"I taught my kids gun safety.."

After the show ended, I walked in my room took out my loaded .357 from my dresser...unloaded it, went online and ordered a gun safe.

This is decision that can only be made by you -the parent. Nobody should say what is right or wrong -just look at history and the world today...and make your own decision. However, accidents do happen and nobody ever anticipates an "accident".

Be safe and hold em tight (your kids...not your guns)

[rimrock]

My point is in a way simple Hunt'nFish: No matter how good of a parent you (we) are, and I'm sure you're a good parent, ya can't be "good" enough. Kids will always make mistakes...always have always will, and it does NOT matter at all if one has a rural background or urban one...not at all.

It's really not that far from saying to a kid well you aren't likely to get into a serious car accident, so you really don't need to wear your seat beat. After all we teach our kids safe driving practices too. Do kids still do stupid stuff with cars no matter how much disciple they recieve??? Accidents happen, yet we can't stop them all...but we can make wise choices to limit some of which will be sooooo regreted after the fact.

And yes if a kid comes over to your house and is kill/injured with a loaded unsecured gun in your home...yes you share some of the blame. Reasonable measures relate to liability.


Threemuch & Fool4FishnHuntn thanks for having the courage to share your stories...I'm very sorry for the tragic loss.

[Rank Amateur]

So, how many parents lock up the car keys?? I see both sides of this, but I bet hardly anybody locks up the car keys or the booze. I grew up in a family that didn't openly keep loaded firearms, but the weapons were not locked up either. I was taught about them at an early age and it worked. But not everybody is the same.

[Grain of Salt]

Simple cost verse benefit

Lots of things in this world I don't like and don't agree with, but I stick my holyier than tho attitude in the safe with my guns.

Guns are portrayed completely different these days than just simple tools...have you watched TV or video games lately?

Don't like locking my house or car either, but I lock those too.

[jokester]

First off...Kurt & Fool4FishnHuntn, i'm terribly sorry to hear your stories. I'm sure that words can't describe the pain you had and still have. No one should ever have to go through that

I agree that children should be educated about gun safety and what can happen if you don't treat it like it's loaded at all times. I believe that as a responsible parent and gun owner, that with guns in the house (locked up or not), it's MANDATORY that children learn how deadly these weapons can be if they're not handled and treated correctly.

My old man also had guns in the house up in the top of his closet. They weren't locked and they were never loaded. He always preached to me the basic rules of safety when handling a gun, and we ALWAYS checked together to make sure the gun was unloaded before it was put away. I knew i'd get my hide tanned if I ever touched them without his permission! Did that stop me...nope! I figured if dad was away, he'd never know. I never loaded or shot them, but i'd take them out, work the action, etc.

Kids are kids...KIDS GET CURIOUS. You can't expect every kid to act like your kid. I do keep a loaded gun in the house at all times, but my wife and I don't have kids yet. We will one day, and i'll cross that bridge when I get there. For now, my guns get locked up whenever kids come over to our residence. I think you can preach gun safety till you're blue in the face, but that one time (and it only takes once) where curiosity gets the best of that child, bad things can happen FAST! I don't want to have to deal with the consequences or even THINK about what could happen!!!

I see both sides of the story...

-jokester

[rimrock]

Originally Posted by Rank Amateur

So, how many parents lock up the car keys?? I see both sides of this, but I bet hardly anybody locks up the car keys or the booze. I grew up in a family that didn't openly keep loaded firearms, but the weapons were not locked up either. I was taught about them at an early age and it worked. But not everybody is the same.

Is it reasonable to have car keys locked up?
Is it reasonable to have knives laying on the floor with a crawling infant?
Is it reasonable to have a baseball bat in the garage?
Is it reasonable to have a safety rail on a stairway in your home?
Is it reasonable to have unsecured loaded guns accessible to anyone in your home?
.
.
.
If people have difficultly answers these questions than the problem could be between the ears. Liability/courts always take into account what a “reasonable” person should have done in an incident. That’s a factor in determining your responsibility or liability as an adult. I mean really if we're honest we actually all here understand the differences.

[Grain of Salt]

sorry, this is the internet, no honesty allowed.

[Rank Amateur]

Originally Posted by rimrock

Is it reasonable to have car keys locked up?
Is it reasonable to have knives laying on the floor with a crawling infant?
Is it reasonable to have a baseball bat in the garage?
Is it reasonable to have a safety rail on a stairway in your home?
Is it reasonable to have unsecured loaded guns accessible to anyone in your home?
.
.
.
If people have difficultly answers these questions than the problem could be between the ears. Liability/courts always take into account what a “reasonable” person should have done in an incident. That’s a factor in determining your responsibility or liability as an adult. I mean really if we're honest we actually all here understand the differences.

I didn't see an answer. Guess I'm thick between the ears. How high is that soap box? Again, do you lock up your car keys and booze? Seems to me that is a big killer too. It is interesting how we as a society view things. What was reasonable in years past is not today and what you may think is reasonable today, may not be tomorrow. Or is it which jury you get?

[Sweet Melissa]

My husband and I do not agree on this issue. I believe there are two places/modes that a gun should be in:
Storage mode where the firearm is completely secure, unloaded, locked, etc., or transport mode where the gun is in a condition of readiness and within one step or arm's length away.
Most arguments I can let drop, but this one I will not. I am so sorry for those here who have suffered tragedies. Thank you for sharing your stories.

[CamoHunter]

I normally have most of my guns locked up in my safe. I do have one revolver that is kept loaded that is "close by" but it has a keyed trigger lock installed with the key in a separate hiding spot.

Occasionally I will have one or more guns out for one reason or another.
All my sons hunt and know how to handle the weapons safetly, but they do understand that they are off limits unless I give the OK.

If for some reason I have other kids in the house I try to lock the guns up. If not, the guns are kept in my hunting room and the boys know that they should not go in there unless they have a specific reason.

I alway have told my sons that they are responsible for their friends actions while they are in the house, whether I am home or not.

This may not work for everyone...

CH

[Idahoan]

I agree with Huntn'Fish.

Parents need to ingrain right and wrong in their kids and not leave it up to society.

Gun storage in the home is a personal choice.

A knife, baseball bat, chainsaw, weedeater, skillsaw, tank of a gas and match, car keys, booze.....are all just as deadly as a gun.

I will always have a loaded .357 in home. If my home is broken in too; I want to be able to defend my family. My son will be educated on its use, safety, and what type of damage it can do. He will know and understand it's power and learn a respect for it. He will know mom and dad are number one and the difference between right and wrong and there always consequences.

[rimrock]

Originally Posted by Rank Amateur

I didn't see an answer. Guess I'm thick between the ears. How high is that soap box? Again, do you lock up your car keys and booze? Seems to me that is a big killer too. It is interesting how we as a society view things. What was reasonable in years past is not today and what you may think is reasonable today, may not be tomorrow. Or is it which jury you get?

You're trying to cloud a pretty simple issue...nice effort.

If a minor gets their hands on an unsecured loaded gun in your home and an incident occurs, do you think the judge/jury is going to blame the kid, the kids parent, or the homeowner for negligence. You probably don't see an answer, right? You could complain about the jury being on a soap box as you go off to jail as well.

And yea if a minor gets a hold of the alcohol in your home…you as the adult can be prosecuted as well.

Really how hard is it? Isn’t this thread about taking responsibility as an adult? Hey everyone has a right to “do what they want” regarding gun storage, alcohol and the like (you bet, no doubt). And the court has a right to put you in jail for not knowing better. Homeowners can be held responsible for negligence in their homes or are you going to try and cloud that one too?

[ampersat]

Isn’t this thread about taking responsibility as an adult?

That would be one way to view it. Another way to view it is that this discussion is about instilling responsibility in one's children and for everyone to take accountability for their own actions (something which has all but disappeared in this country).

[ehunter]

Originally Posted by ampersat

That would be one way to view it. Another way to view it is that this discussion is about instilling responsibility in one's children and for everyone to take accountability for their own actions (something which has all but disappeared in this country).
[/color]

[jvp]

Originally Posted by bigjake_888

I agree but it is not worth the argument with my wife. My guns are locked.

my wife complains if there isn't a loaded weapon outside of the safe. grandkids come over all the time

[StickFish]

Guns have never been taboo in our house. As each child has reached the age of being able to understand and accept the responsibilities involved they learn. In fact our youngest just showed her first spark of interest the other night. Our oldest has graduated to shooting my bench rest runs and scoped 22's, that after learning how to shoot iron sights on a pull to **** single shot rifle - as basic as it gets.

I have gotten into many debates in the car pool about hunters safety classes. I recommend them to every parent, and every child whether you hunt or not. Too many people are injured everyday in accidents cause they do not know how to safely handle a firearm. My kids know what safe gun handling is and know that if there is unsafe, unsupervised gun handling it is time to find and "adult" or leave the circumstance. Every person should know, not just those of gun owning households.

[rimrock]

Interesting, so at least in part it's the minor child's fault (i.e. kid under 17).

[ampersat]

No, ultimately it's a problem of parenting.

If your kid wasn't taught well enough to keep himself or herself in line or his or her friends in line when they are guests in your home, then I would call that a failure in parenting.

[rimrock]

So in part it's the fault of the unrelated child's parent if there was an unsecured loaded gun in another home in the case of an accident?

[Chesapeake]

How many have bean on a military or competition firing line?

Let me tell you, it is very structured and controlled.

Every person on that line is trained in weapons safety and handling, yet "reasonable" thought dictates that additional controlls must be put in place to assure "reasonable" safety.

I think it is an "Unreasonable" expectation that children will make no mistakes simply because "They've bean taught gun safety".

If this was a "Reasonable" expectation, then one could also expect people to always practice safe sex, and never drive drunk, and never talk back to your mom, and never shoot deer by spotlight, ect, ect, ect.........

I fully agree all people should be taught gun safety, but I also agree that in the presence of yougsters additional controlls must be put in place to assure "Reasonable" safety.

If someone wants to keep loaded weapons laying around thats thier choice. I grew up in a similar situation, so I understand the mind set.

Personaly I just couldnt handle the thought of losing one of my children because they got ahold of one of my guns.