Koulingouski's 5 million away from fisheries

[fishchaser]

Will someone please clear this up for me?

"Gov. Kulongoski wants to use $5 million in higher license fees to pay for schools and other nonwildlife programs."

Bill Monroe should know something about it. It was in the headlines for the Oregon live, outdoors section of the internet. :shocked:

I went to read the outdoor forecast in the oregonlive internet and found this in red bold lettering, say to talk about it on the forum. Well this is the only forum I read. I did go to it and look to see what it was about and nobody there knows anything, do WE?

If this is true, I think we need to have another LARGE gathering to let them know we paid those extra fees for the hatcheries, not for schools. I believe is schools, but don't take it away from us, who volunteered to take the hike to save hatcheries.

They need to get everyone involoved not just the sportsman. Sportsmen, are not the only ones with kids using schools. Neither are the drunks or cigarette smokers. I say tax EVERYONE.

[fishchaser]

ttt

[Gun Rod Bow]

You are absolutely right. We got HOSED big time. I'm all for special interest groups being willing to pay their own way.

So, we go to Salem, tell them we will pay higher fees IF you send that money directly to our interest HATCHERIES.

So what did they hear, MORE MONEY. Oh we'll take that...suckerrrs.

Same thing with the Springer allotment. We pay higher fees, gill nets over harvest, we get our season cut to make up for the gillnetters, then ODFW decides to just give the gillnetters more of our allotment [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

We're getting hosed.

Did you see how many people were at the Sportsman's Show? Think sport fishing isn't a HUGE impact on the Northwest economy?

We need to get organized

[goodkarma]

maybe it's going to fund more of his "surprise" trips to Iraq or another trip to DC. I find it ironic that we are firing teachers and closing fish programs but he is taking meaningless trips around the world. Like anyone gives a crap if the governer from Oregon goes to Iraq and has a 5 minute audience with president Bush in DC.
Sorry, I know it's off topic but none the less the timing of this trip is sort of ironic.

[6wapiti6]

This just chaps me big time!
I live in Vancouver and have no problem paying for my fishing and hunting licences as well as tags. I figure it cost me at least $1,000/yr for everything (turkey,bear,cougar, elk,deer, salmon/steelhead tags, etc). Like I said I am not complaining about the fee's because I knew about them when I moved across the river. What really burns me is they are using this $$$$ to fund schools and other special projects. I will gladly pay for what I use, but this is ridiculous! Might just have to save all that cash and go on one nice trip every other year in idaho or wyoming. It's bad enough I pay state income taxes, now the cash that I CHOOSE to give to the state for something that I think passionatly about goes right back to thier coffers!!!!
AAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! !

[Siwash]

Does anyone have any hard, unbiased documentation on this? I'm normally not a rabid anti-tax, anti-gov't sort of guy, but if this is true it would be a HUGE breach of confidence with communities like us that have generally been supportive of state F&W programs.

[fishchaser]

I emailed Bill Monroe on this and hopefully he will give us as in on this. It is in bold red letters in the "www.Oregonlive.com/outdoors". like I said, Bill monroe might be able to enlighten us on the issue.

[Corkie Monster]

Oregon State Government is nothing but a bunch of liars and theives. Leaving my native state is sounding better every day.

CM

[orsturgeon]

Now come on Gun Rod Bow, you say that ODFW decides to just give the gillnetters more of our allotment.

How in the world can you say that? The allowable catch was split 50:50. You want more? There is supposed to be 500,000 fish! Don't get greedy.

Lets fish

orsturgeon

[Gun Rod Bow]

Proof?

Did tag fees go up? Yup!

Are they still going to the general fund? Yup!

Are many hatcheries still years behind in maintenance? Yup.

Now that we voted not to give them any more money, you can expect the standard "We're gonna let the bad guys out of jail, cut cops and firemen, and close hatcheries".

NONE, of the money is going directly to hatcheries.

Nothing spends like other peoples money

[gottafish]

we need to get rid of Ted and get Arnold

[Bill Monroe]

I haven't the foggiest notion what this is all about...
First...the split was 60-40 on nets...not 50-50...

But the 5 million is news to me...
We don't own or manage OregonLive...they contract with us for our news. I'll take a look later tonight and see.
It could be from an old story during the budgeting in which the governor took some general fund money out of fisheries and they may have plugged that hole with license fees...but that was slightly on the legitimate side...
Commercials pay a certain amount of poundage to the general fund and a slight percentage of general fund goes back to fisheries to compensate.
That was the raid, but it's old news.

No, repeat, no license and tag fees are directly taken by state budgeters. In fact, they can't do that...

I'll have to look some more, but I don't think there's anything new here.

I've been surprised before, though...

[fish-on]

lets all go on strike next year by not buying liscenses and any fishing stuff ans see what happens

[Gun Rod Bow]

orsturgeon,

The allotment split for the last three years had been 65/35.

In the past 2 years the gillnetters overharvested and sport seasons were closed early to make up for gillnetters over harvest.

The split this time ended up 60/40, we lost 5%, even though we had been made to pay for the gillnetters overharvest.

Bill, I look forward to hearing more about the money trail. I was under the impression that tag and license fees went to the general fund, then were funded by the legislature.

Am I wrong about that

[skybuster]

I'm with Fish-on. I recently made the move north and have no regrets. I'm in the process of moving my business north as well. I think that all of the Oregonians should realize that they can buy licenses in Washington if they fish primarily the Columbia.

Last year I didn't buy an Oregon license until April, and that was only because they shut down the CR for springers. Don't give those clowns any of your hard earned money until you absolutely have to!

[fishchaser]

EVIDENTLY....This is OLD NEWS. (THANK GOD)
This was last year when we had all that contraversy over the budget, and he wanted more.

I talked to Bill Monroe, and he said he will get with the complaint dept. They must have put that in there to fill space and to get us all RIALED UP. This was Bill's e-mail:

"hat's old news...
When I click on it, nothing even shows up...that's not something I wrote any time recently, but I do kind of recall it all last spring during the budget cycle...
If I were you, I'd go back on ifish and tell them there either doesn't seem to be anything to it or you jumped to a conclusion...it's possible the folks down at Oregonlive were just trying to drum up some business...I'll pass my complaint along to our liaison."
thanks
Bill

I guess that answered my question.
Thank You Bill

[ 02-13-2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: fishchaser ]

[Jerry Dove]

Ain't it funny how some guy starts a rumor and all of a sudden ODFW and State Goverment are a bunch of no good SB's. Like Bill said and it has been said so many times before. ( TAGS AND LIC. FEES GO DIRECTLY TO FISH AND WILDLIFE) Yes we fought a great battle last year and we won, please remember that. But,, I do agree, we need to be more organized! Yes the Gov. tried to take $5mil. from us last year, but we said loud and clear, NO, NO, NO! And he didn't. Jerry

[willametteriveroutlaw]

How many hunting groups have representation at the capitol (lobbyist)? How many fishing groups that have the general fishing populations interests at heart have lobbist at the capital? If i remember right the only fishing representation at the capitol comes from Groups like oregon trout (not an ally of the general sport fishing public). We need to get organized folks!!!

[freespool]

Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association has two full time lobbists fighting for all sportfishers. They spoke up loud and clear at the spring chinook allocation meeting in Oregon City Feb.5 , Nothwest Steelheaders also spoke on our behalf. Also Sen.Rick Metzger sent a message endorsing more fish for sportsman.

salmon hugger

[Straydog]

Originally posted by jerry dove:
Ain't it funny how some guy starts a rumor and all of a sudden ODFW and State Goverment are a bunch of no good SB's.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Amen, Jerry.


People need to find the facts, not get their "news" from the internet or talk radio.

The trip to Iraq was at the request of the President, by the way........

[ 02-13-2004, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

Originally posted by goodkarma:
maybe it's going to fund more of his "surprise" trips to Iraq or another trip to DC. I find it ironic that we are firing teachers and closing fish programs but he is taking meaningless trips around the world. Like anyone gives a crap if the governer from Oregon goes to Iraq and has a 5 minute audience with president Bush in DC.
Sorry, I know it's off topic but none the less the timing of this trip is sort of ironic.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">He was invited to go to Iraq BY THE PRESIDENT

[Bill Monroe]

Here's a recent Steve Duin column that most of you should read (from Oregonlive)

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...9096119550.xml

[northriver1]

I would read it but I am in bed. What are you doing working at 1:13AM in the morning?

[ 02-14-2004, 01:31 AM: Message edited by: northriver1 ]

[Straydog]

Originally posted by Bill Monroe:
Here's a recent Steve Duin column that most of you should read (from Oregonlive)

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...9096119550.xml

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">[img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
Thank you for sharing, Bill!!

[ 02-14-2004, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Straydog ]

[Sore Back]

They have got all the money they need, just don't know how to manage it. Wonder how much the trip to Bagdad cost us sportsman.

[RiverRogue]

Steve's article is very timely. This is the first I saw it. I too may be somewhat guilty of the perception of waste. However, I am in public safety and know that the cutbacks we have suffered, the cutbacks in training, in travel, in supplies, in manpower, and the strenuous adhesion to watching where each and every penny is spent, is readily and sometimes painfully apparent. And I know that as long as one commissioner or another makes a bad decision (pay employess for work when weather travel to work was unsafe), all public employees suffer at every level.

[lost_sailor]

Originally posted by Gun Rod Bow:

Are they still going to the general fund? Yup!

NONE, of the money is going directly to hatcheries.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Do you want to share where these "facts" are coming from?

[Kruechief]

Ain't it funny how some guy starts a rumor and all of a sudden ODFW and State Goverment are a bunch of no good SB's.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">This is kind of a harsh assessment of fishchaser's post

I don't feel that he meant to start a rumor or an [img]graemlins/icon_argue.gif[/img]

Amen, Jerry.


People need to find the facts, not get their "news" from the internet or talk radio.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica"> Ok :whazzup:

Krue

[Gun Rod Bow]

I stand corrected Jerry and Bill.

Thank you.

[Bonneville Dan]

Steve Duin also recently defended the Beaverton School District's purchase of fourteen $1,400 pizza cutters. When a politician or journalist resorts to a "calm down, sonny, everything's just fine" attitude, we should be offended, and increasingly suspicious. The public's scrutinizing government spending is not only our right - it's our obligation to those who inherit it from us. And whoever convinced Steve Duin that Neil Goldschmidt is working for free ought to be selling real estate. There are people who have gone into politics with noble intentions. Neil ain't one of 'em. He saddled us with by far the most expensive travel method known to Oregonians during his brief tenure under Jimmy Carter. Decades later, he's still dipping into our pockets, recently as an obscenely expensive consultant ($40K per month on average for over two years) hired by the former SAIF, which led to some top level SAIF resignations. To claim that his involvement in TPG's investor's (including PERS by the way) interest in purchasing PGE is selfless on his part is a bit of a stretch. Face it, the guy has no defense, and could only be hired by our elected misrepresentatives.

What does this have to do with fishing? First, this can of worms was already opened. But consider this: the amount of free time you have during your working years, and the point in time that you are financially able to retire, are tied more than anything else to your cost of living, now and in the future. Waste at home, and of your tax funds steals from your leisure time, and saddles our kids with a much tougher budget balancing act. Ballooning of costs of services that don't correlate to the revenue collections needs to be questioned. Of course, most of us don't have time to do the homework ourselves, as Mr. Duin reported. So sorting out reality from fiction requires digesting information from more than one source. Talk radio contains some of both just like the newspapers do. The reliability of each source is for each of us to decide for ourselves, NOT by a newspaper reporter. To attempt to steer people away from becoming plugged into their civic responsibility of being informed is irresponsible journalism.

I am pro government by the way. I'm just not willing to hire a known thief to park my car.


Dan

[BrianMaguire]

Originally posted by Bill Monroe:
Here's a recent Steve Duin column that most of you should read (from Oregonlive)http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...9096119550.xml

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">One would think you worked for the state Bill. Maybe you are getting a little too close to the ODFW staff to be objective? Can you explain why the Oregon budget has more than doubled since 1992? Is it not waste to have a biologist who is weak and won't stand up against livestock for fear of being too political? Yes maybe the State can pass an audit, the funds are accounted for and therefore according to Steve Duin it is not "waste". The fact is we just don't get much from the salaries of state workers and that is waste regardless of what an auditor may says.

[ 02-15-2004, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: BrianMaguire ]

[Gun Rod Bow]

Bill or Jerry,

Steve's article is about perception of waste. We can all find examples, some have offered some in this thread. I'll save the political debate for the other board.

I specifically am interested in exactly what happens to license and tag fees. I find nothing in Steve's article regarding fisheries or tag/license money.

IE:

How much is brought in by license and tag fees.

How many state funded hatcheries are there?

From where does there funding come from?

Where do I find the "money trail" in the state budget?

I know that some are all or part funded by the Feds.

If I am wrong on this money going to the GF, then where can I find that proof in the state or ODFW budget? Where is this info available?

My memories are of news pics of prisoners walking out of jail, state police layoffs, threats of hatchery closures...when funding propositions have failed.

[ 02-16-2004, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

[fishscale]

Williametteriveroutlaw,
Oregon Trout IS NOT a fishing representative group. Don’t let the name fool you, it is a CONSERVATION organization and proud of it. Oregon Trout, along with 5 other conservation organizations have filed an intent to sue ODFW. If successful, their suit would close 15 of the state’s 34 hatcheries. The hatcheries specified are Marion Forks (N. Santiam), South Santiam, McKenzie, Sandy, Nehalem, Cedar Creek, Klaskanine, Big Creek, Butte Falls, Cascade, Irrigon, Oak Springs, Rock Creek, Umatilla and Wallowa. This would wipe out the Willamette Spring Chinook run, which judging by your moniker, might not be so copasetic. It would also seriously impact fishing in the mid-coast and devastate the year around fishing on the Sandy.
Since this thread started out with Kulongoski’s attempted $5 million grab of hatchery funds it might be appropriate to note that governor Kulongoski, upon taking office, appointed Jim Myron as his fisheries advisor. Jim Myron is an ex-director of Oregon Trout. How about that? An attempted $5 million grab of hatchery funds by our governor who appointed an ex-director of an anti-hatchery conservation organization as his fisheries advisor.
Want to do something about it? To the list of lobbyists already mentioned in this thread I would add Oregon Anglers which is a political action group who fights for the general sportfishing interests. Whomever you choose to support, it is important to do so as there will be many important battles ahead.

[BrianMaguire]

Originally posted by fishscale:
This would wipe out the Willamette Spring Chinook run,

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">Be a little fair, I am not sure this will happen as you say, but your stated fact that the willamette spring chinook run may go away due to hatchery closings is not Oregon Trout or any conservation organizations fault. The run went away for another reason and Oregon Trout is probably working to remedy this and maybe we all should as well. Maybe sport fisherman should enjoy hatcheries but look at them as the Sirens they are, masking the real problem declining or extinct native runs on many river systems.

[Jerry Dove]

WELL SAID FISH SCALE.

[Gun Rod Bow]

Jerry,

Do you have a resource for me that tracks the revenue from tag and license fees and where the hatcheries in Oregon derive their funds. I realize there are different hatcheries with different funding sources. Specifically the state funded hatcheries.

Thanks

[BUGLEMAN]

I don't know of all the hatcheries on the Willamette but the S. Santiam Hatchery is to make up for lost spawning ground due dams.

[Scaup]

Gun Rod Bow,

You can find your revenue source information at this link:

http://www.leg.state.or.us/comm/lfo/...0Resources.pdf

page 249 for ODFW as a whole.
page 254 for Fish Propagation (Hatcheries)

How much is brought in by license and tag fees? ODFW $111.6M Overall budget: $230.6M

How many state funded hatcheries are there? 34 plus 15 satellite rearing facilities.

From where does their funding come from? $5.6M General Fund. $7.5M License and Fees. $30.9M Federal. Total $43.9M