Waterfowl Autos? SBEII, Xtrema, Super X3 or other?

[Headhunter]

I am starting to think about all the stuff I would like to invest in for next years waterfowl season and man there is lots of stuff I WANT to get, but only so much budget to go around. One of the things I am thinking about is a new auto shotgun for duck/goose. I want it to be able to shoot 3 1/2 shells.

I know a bunch of guys who have SBEII and they love them. It sounds like this is the gold standard when it comes to a waterfowling gun and is kind of like like asking Ford vs. Chevy as everybody has their favorites.

What are people's thought about the pro/cons between:

Benelli SBEII

Beretta Xtrema

Winchester Super X3

Other is same class?

Any insight would be helpful.

Jim

[adobe wall]

SBE if you can find it instead of the SBEII. The tendency to lose the buttpad on the SBEII is something Benelli still hasn't corrected.

Best money I've spent as far as I'm concerned.

regards, aw

[Screamin' Eagle]

Test fit all that you are considering. I have shot the Browning GOLD and the Berreta and bought a SBEII. With the Browning I shot low, the berreta did not fit me well and the SBEII fit me great and is adjustable. There are many ways to test the fit. They are all great guns!

Good Luck

[water and sky]

Love my SBEII. Light, reliable, super eay to break down and clean. When I first got it I couldn't hit much. Changing recoil pads to the next shorter one helped alot. If you would like to shoot mine we could easily arrange it. We live pretty close.

I shot a few times at a friends club this year where the Extrema was real popular ( partly because one of the members sells them and runs down the Benelli). I just prefer the fit of the SBE.

If I were you I would also check out the Win. Super X3. I think JNICHOLSON has one. I like the bottom eject.

Tom

[Tar Heel]

I guess it's all about what fits you best. The xtrema II seems to fit me best, although never shot a SBE. We had a bad experince w/ a Benelli pump, so when I went auto shopping last August, it just wasn't up for second chancing the other 'B" lines, although they are under common owndership and prolly similar in many respects.
Seems like the rise of the comb is higher w/ the Berretta, and it's a longer pull thats fits my long build better. I do whish I had gotten a 26" rather than 28" barell, as the tight fit in my boat, and jump shooting I like to do would go better w/ a liitlle less barell to deal w/. You can meet me at the range sometime if u want to give it a try, and maybe you could find someone w/ a SBE to compare. I shot Winchester and Remmington pumps for 30+ years w/o any probelms, and the autos require more cleaning. So, I wouldnt be in that big a hurry. I shot my pump at the close of the season, and it worked just fine.

[billc_sbio]

Best fit?!!

How about a Labrador pup out of some really good breeding?

(For those first 2 shots you CAN make w/your 870)

[baltz526]

since the big names are all extremely reliable, i would look at the lightest auto, then check one for fit

[Headhunter]

Ok, how a gun fits is critical so that is a given. A good gun fitter can make any gun fit. Last year I had my 870 professionally fitted and to me the results were well worth the $75.00 fitting fee. It now fits like a glove, swings well and just feels good. I have much more confidence in it and my shooting has improved significantly over the previous year...BUT now I want an auto.

At this point in the research I am more concerned with reliability, fit & finish, ability to hold up to the abuse a waterfowler puts a gun through as I am hard on my gear. Things like does it field strip easy without a bunch of parts needing to come off. If it does jam, how hard is it to clear? What are the known "issues" each gun has (like the SBEII butt plate issue). Are the service parts easy to come by? Are there enough gunsmiths in the area (Portland) that work on them to give a quick turnaround if needed.

Between the above mentioned guns or ones in this class, what else do I need to think about?

[redfish89]

My vote would be the SBE.. The SBE is a great gun. I have also shot the extrema with mixed results. The extrema just didn't feel right. I don't think you can go wrong with any of your choices. If you can, try to shoot each gun before you buy.

[steelheadslayer]

I bought a SX3 this past summer and it is the only gun I've used all season. Many have said, you gotta keep it super clean, it'll jam up in cold weather and their are more reliable autoloaders out there. I cleaned mine after every 3 hunts for the first two months of the season. The last month I tried an experiment. I didn't clean it, I just sprayed a little dry lube on the slides and went hunting. Never a problem, even in the 22 degree weather the last week of the season. It fits me great but it does come with shims where you can adjust the fit if need be. I LOVE this gun as does Chuckee who bought one before Christmas after seeing mine in action.

It's in Duck Blind Camo and has held up very well with no issues so far and I hunted a lot this year. The parts should be fairly interchangeable with the Browning Gold so that shouldn't be an issue. The reason I bought the SX3 instead of the Gold was because Browning didn't make the camo Gold this year.

Check em all out and see which one fits YOU best. Besides, when you check out the sticker price, you'll see that you can buy a few cases of target loads with the money you save by buying the SX3 and get in a lot of off season practice.

[Eric Strand]

Jim, Having a properly fitted gun is very important but having one that doesn't fail is also very important. I am able to spend a lot of time around different guns through guiding and I can tell you without hesitation that the number one failing gun is the Benelli SBE or SBEII followed by the Remington 11-87/1100.

I have shot a Beretta 390 for 4 seasons and it has always been extremely reliable but I am really impressed in my new gun, the Winchester SX3. It is extremely light, easy to clean, only 5-6 parts internal parts when field stripped and very reliable. I clean mine about once a week when I'm hunting 5-6 days a week. I have put this gun through lots of different types of mud, sand, freezing rain, snow and bitter cold and it didn't jam from the elements. My vote would be for the Winchester SX3.

I don't want to be a Benelli basher because I know how well they fit, how fast they are and how long they can last, I am just speaking from what experiences I have seen in the field.

Here are the problems I see with the Benelli SBE or SBEII. The FATAL FLAW, the ratcheting bolt fails the most. The ratcheting bolt that also makes the gun so fast is what causes most miss fires. If the bolt is bumped, jossled or doesn't shut properly than the firing pin doesn't align with primer and you get the always frustrating click and NO bang. I have seen this to be the problem more often than not.
The other problem I have seen is the butt plate on the new SBEII coming off while hunting. I have seen them fall off a lot of different ways and it always makes me wonder. It's not a huge problem but a problem none the less.

The Remington 11-87/1100....If I had a dollar for everytime I saw one of those break I would be a rich man.

Anyways, have fun buying a new gun and hopefully you end up with a good one.

" Shoot em with their feet down "
Eric Strand

[Hunt'nFish]

I agree with Eric...hard to choose between fit and reliablity as they are both important.

BUT, I'll choose "fit" over reliablity.

A gun that fits, you can hit with. But if the gun doesn't fit you'll have a hard time hitting with even if it's the most reliable gun available. Shoot as many guns as you can and let that decide.

Most guns are pretty reliable, if taken care of. It's just that some require little care and others a fair bit. But at least you can deal w/ that at home between hunts.

Take my Spartan, it's very reliable. But I can't seem to hit with it very well. If I can't hit with it...it doesn't matter that it goes BOOM, BOOM, BOOM everytime if they are mostly misses does it??
Perhaps I should listen to you and go have it professionally fitted.
Hunt'nFish

[Something Good]

I tried them all out and found that the SBE2 fit me best. Had some problems with it cycling the first season. Benelli said it had to get broken in so I took it down to the gun club and shot 6 rounds of clays. No problems since. The down side is if you need warranty work it has to be shipped back east. My gun gets subjected to all kinds of weather and salt water. I clean it once a year and it still looks brand new.

[Something Good]

I'd be happy to meet you at the gun club some time if you want to shoot a few rounds.

[Tar Heel]

Jim,I would point out that autos are ok for ducks, but they really mess up the goose hunting!

[Headhunter]

Perhaps I am missing something here?

We all talk about fit and how important fit is and can all agree that a shotgun must fit well to shoot well. But ANY shotgun can be made to fit!

If you are buying an off rack massed produced shotguns (Benelli, Beretta, Winchester for this discussion), it is made to “fit” the average Joe not fit you specifically. Sure some off the shelve shotguns might fit better than others and some perfectly so, but is that really the criteria on should use? If a guy is shelling out $1,200-$2000 for a shotgun, then the $75.00 to have it CUSTOME FIT TO ME it mouse nuts and well worth it IMHO. Seems to me fit & finish, durability/reliability, feature/functionality, service ability, how it breaks down, ease of cleaning/field stripping without a total breakdown would be important. You can always get it fitted once you decide on the other stuff? Am I missing something here?

[Capin' Dan]

I guess for me it was a love affair gone bad. Dreamed about one for many years and then got the SBE2, It simple broke my heart and left a bad taste for all autoloaders. It was the biggest piece of wothless meat I had ever seen. It might have swung well but you never new if it was going to go off or not. No way will I have a gun that is not dependable. I am currently back on my old reliable 870. I am in the market for a new gun and will look at them at the sportsman show. Next one will be an over under. I'd tend to go with Fleece as a guide he sees it all.
Fit over reliability are you joking

[Big Billy]

Remington 1187 special purpose camo been shooting them for years and they work well for me, tried SB2 my friend has but just doesn't trip my trigger! Goodluck!

[Hunt'nFish]

Danny, you bring up a good point......saltwater and semi-auto's.
I noticed mine doesn't function as freely in tidal salt water as it does in fresh water. It seems like tidal salt water is "sticky". Salt water is a killer and most guns are simply not designed for it.

I'm curious about which semi-auto's do better in salt conditions.
Or is the answer.....none?

I notice that Duckboy shoots a double. What are some of the opinions of other tidal hunters?
Hunt'nFish

[Headhunter]

HIJACK ALERT....LOL

I would like to keep this discussion on the features, functionality and personal expereince people have had with SBEII, Xtrema, Super X3 shotguns. Sorry Mike...perhaps you can start a new thread.

Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish

Danny, you bring up a good point......saltwater and semi-auto's.
I noticed mine doesn't function as freely in tidal salt water as it does in fresh water. It seems like tidal salt water is "sticky". Salt water is a killer and most guns are simply not designed for it.

I'm curious of the which semi-auto's do better in salt conditions.
Or is the answer.....none?

I notice that Duckboy shoots a double. What are some of the opinions of other tidal hunters?
Hunt'nFish

[Hunt'nFish]

But it IS on topic.......will you not expect to use it down the river in tidal salt?
Yep.
Wouldn't you like to hear other lower river hunters experiences w/ these auto's?
Yep.
I personally value Danny's comments & experiences in this area. I'd like to hear other's as well.

Your comments about "service ability, how it breaks down, ease of cleaning/field stripping without a total breakdown would be important" got me to wondering about such things as springs, salt, rust and ease of cleaning said springs. If I'm not mistaken the SBE main recoil spring in nestled in the butt stock. What about the Beretta? How much of these auto's are made of stainless steel parts? How much does rust interfere with normal functioning of these differant semi-auto's? Is one more prone to issues in salt over the other because of design?

I know you well enough to know that you'll expect it to function in salt water equally well as in fresh.
Besides I wouldn't mind a new Beretta or SBE too.
Hunt'nFish

[Headhunter]

Fair enough Mike! Ok fellas...how does the SBEII, Xtrema and Super X3 work in the salt mash?

[Capin' Dan]

I personally think that the SBEII would fail on the cement firing range or anywhere. As Fleece brought up one littel bump or brush one little etch of dust that prevents that bolt from turnig home and you are watching them fly away.

Sea story time.
Benilli went back to factory for them to fix. Went and picked it up and then went out to a hunt test the next day. They were one gun short so I voluteered my SBEII I swear to God as I went up to run my dog I call for the bird. What happened there is no shot. I then here the cycle being worked on the gunners MY BENELLI, gun. Bird fell out a bit further than the others but was still manageable but I can't believe it he demon gun even tried to get me at a hunt test. I used it a few times that season but for the most part used my old 870 sold it at a huge loss and still felt bad about it think I was taking advantage of another hunter. Bottom line fo rme they just don't work. I don't think the salt was doing it.
Headhunter do a poll and see how many folsk have had their benelli's let them down when it counted. I know Brians sure has.


Fleece can you weigh in on the winchester in salt?

[Puffin]

Great thread. Very helpfull as I too am in the market 4 a new autoloader.

[Something Good]

Originally Posted by Headhunter

Perhaps I am missing something here?

We all talk about fit and how important fit is and can all agree that a shotgun must fit well to shoot well. But ANY shotgun can be made to fit!

If you are buying an off rack massed produced shotguns (Benelli, Beretta, Winchester for this discussion), it is made to “fit” the average Joe not fit you specifically. Sure some off the shelve shotguns might fit better than others and some perfectly so, but is that really the criteria on should use? If a guy is shelling out $1,200-$2000 for a shotgun, then the $75.00 to have it CUSTOME FIT TO ME it mouse nuts and well worth it IMHO. Seems to me fit & finish, durability/reliability, feature/functionality, service ability, how it breaks down, ease of cleaning/field stripping without a total breakdown would be important. You can always get it fitted once you decide on the other stuff? Am I missing something here?

I was told some guns such as the SBE2 could not be "fitted". You might want to double check before you buy. There is a shim selection that comes with it and you can get different recoil pads for length but that's all the fitting you can do. I actually like the easily removable recoil pad. I keep the longer one in my blind bag for days it gets nice enough to take off my heavy coat.

[Paul J]

I'll add my two cents. I have a Browning Gold Hunter and I like it. It has a bad rap about cycling and having to keep it clean. I did start having issues with it. I discovered what is important for any semi auto used on the west side of the state and especially around saltwater, you need to get a surecycle for the gun. For the longest time I couldn't bring myself to spend the $175 for a for part on a gun that was already >$1000. No matter how careful you are the action spring is going to start to rust and cause cycling problems. The Surecycle assembly is stainless steel and cycles the gun like a dream.
My advise is budget the cost of the Surecyle into the cost of a new gun, it will be money well spent.

Paul

[BrotherWolf]

Jimbo,
If you would like to shoot the winchester SX2 I will let ya for $500 and Stoeger for $300

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=183591




Me personal am a winchester guy.....Buy would love to have a extrema 2

[Northwest Pest]

SBE II is a great choice but fit is most important. SBE I may be a better fit. I hunt every day of the season and I am hard on my gear and the SBE II is the best imo.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

Jimbo,
If you would like to shoot the winchester SX2 I will let ya for $500 and Stoeger for $300

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=183591

Me personal am a winchester guy.....Buy would love to have a extrema 2

Hehe, L@@K what's already Sold!

An 870 and a Rem Mod 11 (Auto-5)!

[adobe wall]

Originally Posted by fleece

Here are the problems I see with the Benelli SBE or SBEII. The FATAL FLAW, the ratcheting bolt fails the most. The ratcheting bolt that also makes the gun so fast is what causes most miss fires. If the bolt is bumped, jossled or doesn't shut properly than the firing pin doesn't align with primer and you get the always frustrating click and NO bang. I have seen this to be the problem more often than not.
The other problem I have seen is the butt plate on the new SBEII coming off while hunting. I have seen them fall off a lot of different ways and it always makes me wonder. It's not a huge problem but a problem none the less.

this thread has really been an eye opener as I've always wondered just what people were talking about when they discussed reliability issues with the SBE or SBEII. For me, it has happened one time- a stovepiped round (didn't chamber, it was sticking out of the action at 90 degrees.

What you are describing above is the safety mechanism built into the bolt to prevent it from firing out of battery. It's one of the first design features I noticed on my SBE. The fact that I'm a huge Garand fan helped me recognize that I could not slowly let the bolt down on a live round or I'd risk the weapon not firing.

I've always done two things (the same things I do with my match AR's or my beloved Garands). They are stripped and cleaned every single time I use them and I never slowly lower the bolt on a live round.

Cleaning it keeps the bolt lockup recesses clear of grime buildup and ensures the bolt will have an easy time getting into battery. Dropping the bolt via the release sends it forward at full velocity and ensures the bolt is in battery.

As stated, I've never had a failure to fire and only once had a feed malfunction. I absolutely can see someone trying to stay quiet in the predawn darkness trying to slide the bolt down gently and not getting it into battery. If I do have to slide the bolt down or jar the weapon I will give the bolt a quick visual and if there is any question I pull it 3/4 of the way back and let it go forward at full velocity.

I don't think it's a fatal flaw at all but now I understand the criticism. As for the question about salt water being sticky - yep, I'd agree.

regards, aw

[cityfisher]

Originally Posted by Puffin

Great thread. Very helpfull as I too am in the market 4 a new autoloader.

Ditto

[bp97211]

This is EXACTLY the problem I had last year and this year until I thouroughly cleaned the bolt lockup recess--that grime was keeping it from engaging properly. Plus I always make sure it was engaged, and if it wasn't, pulling the bolt back. My hunting partners would always laugh, b/c they knew why I was doing it...but I'd rather know that it would fire. The only thing is that if you bump the bolt ever so slightly, it might move out of place--causing that dreaded "click" when you pull the trigger. There's nothing you can do about that but check it when you get into shooting position.

Of course--a gun won't fire when your hunting partners put an empty hull in your gun while you're setting decoys. lol.

Originally Posted by adobe wall

this thread has really been an eye opener as I've always wondered just what people were talking about when they discussed reliability issues with the SBE or SBEII. For me, it has happened one time- a stovepiped round (didn't chamber, it was sticking out of the action at 90 degrees.

What you are describing above is the safety mechanism built into the bolt to prevent it from firing out of battery. It's one of the first design features I noticed on my SBE. The fact that I'm a huge Garand fan helped me recognize that I could not slowly let the bolt down on a live round or I'd risk the weapon not firing.

I've always done two things (the same things I do with my match AR's or my beloved Garands). They are stripped and cleaned every single time I use them and I never slowly lower the bolt on a live round.

Cleaning it keeps the bolt lockup recesses clear of grime buildup and ensures the bolt will have an easy time getting into battery. Dropping the bolt via the release sends it forward at full velocity and ensures the bolt is in battery.

As stated, I've never had a failure to fire and only once had a feed malfunction. I absolutely can see someone trying to stay quiet in the predawn darkness trying to slide the bolt down gently and not getting it into battery. If I do have to slide the bolt down or jar the weapon I will give the bolt a quick visual and if there is any question I pull it 3/4 of the way back and let it go forward at full velocity.

I don't think it's a fatal flaw at all but now I understand the criticism. As for the question about salt water being sticky - yep, I'd agree.

regards, aw

[Capin' Dan]

Hunting partners putting empty's in your gun while your out rearranging decoys man who needs friends like that. If I was you in he future I'd make them make the decoy changes!

[Hunt'nFish]

Originally Posted by bp97211

Of course--a gun won't fire when your hunting partners put an empty hull in your gun while you're setting decoys. lol.

I simply can NOT believe someone would do a thing like that. (read with extreme sarcasim)

Originally Posted by Paul J

I'll add my two cents. I have a Browning Gold Hunter and I like it. It has a bad rap about cycling and having to keep it clean. I did start having issues with it. I discovered what is important for any semi auto used on the west side of the state and especially around saltwater, you need to get a surecycle for the gun. For the longest time I couldn't bring myself to spend the $175 for a for part on a gun that was already >$1000. No matter how careful you are the action spring is going to start to rust and cause cycling problems. The Surecycle assembly is stainless steel and cycles the gun like a dream.
My advise is budget the cost of the Surecyle into the cost of a new gun, it will be money well spent.
Paul

Thanks Paul! I've looked hard at the BGH, and this is good info to know.

My Spartan SPR453 also has SS parts in most of the trigger group. Except for a couple small springs.
Hunt'nFish

[sprigkiller09]

My favorite waterfowl gun is the Beretta A-390. I have shot it for 10 years and usually go through about 3-5 cases a year both hunting and trap. Keeping it clean is important but that gun is light, balanced and an extension of my arm. I love that gun. And i know the day and age is for 3.5in but i have never felt under gunned with it.

I like many of you have seen the fatal flaws in soem of the top rated guns ont he market. SBEII, Super X-2. Both of these guns i have seen some serious problems with.

If i was in the market for a new gun i would get the beretta technys. Light, well well balanced and as smooth as smooth can be. Also the extrema II is a good gun that i would consider buying. But if you find a good deal on an original benelli SBE i would buy that.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by sprigkiller09

I like many of you have seen the fatal flaws in soem of the top rated guns on the market. SBEII, Super X-2. Both of these guns i have seen some serious problems with.

SX2 what problems is that ?????????????????????????????????????

[sprigkiller09]

On two different SX2's i have seen the grabber that holds the shell on the action snap off. I have also seen the shell get the primer punched but not fire on another 4 times in one day. Apparently the firing pin snapped and made the firing pin much shorter which made the primer not get punched all the way. I have also seen a few of them not cycle properly but i am guessing that may be user error and not proper cleaning.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by sprigkiller09

On two different SX2's i have seen the grabber that holds the shell on the action snap off. I have also seen the shell get the primer punched but not fire on another 4 times in one day. Apparently the firing pin snapped and made the firing pin much shorter which made the primer not get punched all the way. I have also seen a few of them not cycle properly but i am guessing that may be user error and not proper cleaning.

Most of your statement happens with all makes of guns...if the firing pin did snap that would makes sense but if they were kent shells that could of been the problem. Most cycling issue are dew to a dirty gun or human error.

I love my SX2 Never jams, fast... Easy to clean. feels great... shoots great... yep.. Shes a great gun. May not be the best on the market to some, But she has been one heck of a killing machine since I bought her new.

[Old Guys Rule]

OK I'm an old guys so all I have are old guns. The Model 12 heavy duck gun I inherited never failed for 50 years - it finally wore out and now I shoot an Benelli Nova - It has never failed for 10 years. I also agree with Capt Dan, tough to beat an old 870 wingmaster.

Wait - this is about autos, not pumps. My daughter has a Benelli M1. My best friend shoots the same gun. Cases and cases of shells from the hottest 3" mags to the lightest target loads, from deep freeze to pouring rain to drop in SI mud and NEVER a failure to cycle. Worn out choke tubes and the guns just keep on firing. And the fit and adjustability options are fantastic. If you can get an older M1, buy it! Short of that I have friends with M2s and they have had similar results. The only issue I have ever seen is if you do not let the action slam shut on the chamber the crossbolt does not seat and then when I stand up and shoot 2 out of the flock with my pump you are cussing at your auto for not firing.......

[Quack Attack]

Jim, you have hunted with me, so you know I am a beretta fan. I shot a 390 for many years, then a 391, now an extrema 2.

With that said... I don't like Brownings because 1- they use way too much high carbon steel, which means rust and weight. Same with winchesters. Winchester has traditionally done a better job with blueing though. I don't want to budget in $175 for a sure cycle when I can just buy a different gun and not need it.

However, since Beretta bought Browning/Winchester their waterfowl guns have been much better. From what I hear both the SX3 and the new Browning (not sure of the name) both use alloy frames/parts.

Benelli SBE and SBE 2 both use the same type parts as Beretta which are all alloy and stainless. The only part that will rust will be the sling swivel.

Both the Beretta and the Benelli use the same trigger function system which is equally fast, and the Extrema 2 uses the rotating locking lug that people are complaining about in the SBE. I held lots of Benelli's that were not finished very well, and that lug didn't lock into place without slamming it shut. I have not felt a Beretta with that fit problem. I have also held lots of Benelli's that were fit well, so it's kind of a crap shoot.

The one issue that has not been mentioned here yet that I think is worthwhile is recoil. After shooting turkey loads and 3.5" steel loads through an SBE I put it down and have not shot one since. Recoil operated means no recoil reduction! Light weight means exponentially more recoil! Put the two together and I just don't like shooting them.

My biggest complaint with my Extrema 2 after shooting it for a season is that I frequently shot my three shells, but do not remember doing so. I hadn't trained myself to not having recoil and staying on target so well, so I felt that I should have another shot. Man that thing is fun to shoot.

And as for fit... Beretta, Benelli (except SBE 2 length), SX3, all adjustable with shims included... if it doesn't fit, change it.

Again, I'd be glad to go target shooting with you if you'd like. I just switched out my reloader for sporting clays loads, and I'll be ready to go as soon as 3rd season goose is over.

Don't feel bad about making a decision and then changing your mind a year later. My gun motto to live by: You can always buy more guns...

[sprigkiller09]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

Most of your statement happens with all makes of guns...if the firing pin did snap that would makes sense but if they were kent shells that could of been the problem. Most cycling issue are dew to a dirty gun or human error.

I love my SX2 Never jams, fast... Easy to clean. feels great... shoots great... yep.. Shes a great gun. May not be the best on the market to some, But she has been one heck of a killing machine since I bought her new.

I agree. Most of those problems were perhaps human caused or could happen to any gun but to have two of those action things snap seems a little fishy. They are very user friendly work horse oriented guns though. One of my friends has one and he treats it like dirt but it treats him real well. The shells certainly werent kent. They are against the rules in my opinion. Never had good luck with em.

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Old Guys Rule

OK I'm an old

HEY OLD GUY WHERE'S MY CALENDAR???...LOL

[Old Guys Rule]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

HEY OLD GUY WHERE'S MY CALENDAR???...LOL

Check is in the mail.......

[Headhunter]

Wow...tons of great information! Thanks a bunch...now I just need to let it sink in a bit.

One thing I would like to know and was touched on a bit is how do these guns break down while in the field? How do they break down into sub groups with contained parts better than the other...or if something needed cleaning while in the blind do you get the parts spilling out like a spring snake in can? For instance, I can and have taken my 870 apart in the blind & put it together again in a jiffy without worry of missing parts at the end.

Thanks a bunch and I am done with the dang auto questions for a while...promise

Jim

[Threemuch]

Originally Posted by Headhunter

For instance, I can and have taken my 870 apart in the blind & put it together again in a jiffy without worry of missing parts at the end.

That's a pump gun. Not an apples to apples comparison. Pump gun only has a magazine spring and ejector springs. An autoloader is a more complicated device.

You have seen my cheapo spartan auto. It's a beater, and it hasn't failed me yet. I wiped the gas cylinder out exactly once this whole season, and probably cycled 2.5 cases through it. The gun is patiently waiting for late goose season to be over to get it's once a year teardown and clean. It's a pretty simple gun, design wise. The finish was poor, which was OK by me, as I intended to paint it.

Have you been over to the shotgunworld forums? Wealth of free advice over there. Worth what you pay for it of course. There is actually alot of good info, and owner/fan forums for every kind of skattergun I have ever heard of.

[Uplanders]

X-treama II for me, I love mine

[Headhunter]

Originally Posted by Threemuch

That's a pump gun. Not an apples to apples comparison. Pump gun only has a magazine spring and ejector springs. An autoloader is a more complicated device.

KB, I undertand an auto is more complicated than my pump and don't expect apples-to-apples, just trying to put in perspective the breakdown from what I know as my 870 is the only shotgun I have owned.

[GoneCoastal]

I have an SBE II, haven't used it much, just didn't get a chance to yet, the fit is great but I have had trouble putting shells in the magazine and I'm not sure what that is all about. So far it goes bang everytime I hit the trigger- I'm gona be really bummed if that starts happening, I don't know if there could be something worse...I'm a bad enough shot as it is without havin to think about if my gun is going to fire or not

[adobe wall]

Originally Posted by Headhunter

KB, I undertand an auto is more complicated than my pump and don't expect apples-to-apples, just trying to put in perspective the breakdown from what I know as my 870 is the only shotgun I have owned.

There's a bit of a learning curve to breaking down a SBE but once you figure it out once it's very easy to do. It breaks down into a handguard, barrel, receiver/stock, and bolt. No brainer and unless you drop one of the aforementioned parts in the water you're good.

regards, aw

[jnicholson]

Super X3

I got one and love it! Worlds fastest auto ... see the videos.

[Carterv]

beretta.......yes please

[Reel Knotty]

I am currently shooting a SBEII, before that it was a Browning hunter gold. I like the fit and weight of the SBEII. It swings really sweet. I have never shot and Xtrema or Super X3. Quack Attack likes to rib me about the SBEII when we hunt...I might have to shoot his Xtrema sometime and see what I am missing.

My complaints: I have had trouble with the bolt going all the way home a few times, but that was usually my fault as the gun needed cleaning (I don't clean it nearly as much as I had to clean my Browning). Yep, lost the recoil pad...three times! The last loss I did not find it so had to buy new ones (got a short one to use during the cold days with lots of layers on).

If you don't have the gun shouldered well, *it will not cycle correctly*. And yes, it needs to break in.

As compared to my browning...I love it. As compared to the others, I couldn't tell you.

[Meister Jaeger]

Originally Posted by adobe wall

There's a bit of a learning curve to breaking down a SBE but once you figure it out once it's very easy to do. It breaks down into a handguard, barrel, receiver/stock, and bolt. No brainer and unless you drop one of the aforementioned parts in the water you're good.

regards, aw

Here's my two bits for you Jim:

The SBE is a piece of cake to breakdown and clean. I only do a teardown clean after several boxes or a 'dirty' hunt. I *do* give it a Rem Oil bath and wipedown after every hunt however, and that's kept me from having any field issues.

I'm going on 5 years with the SBE, with no reliability issues to report. I've noticed the 'bolt didn't close all the way' problem a couple times, due to attempted 'silent slides' about 2 mins before go time. I can now close it just fine - quietly - and its simply a habit (just like double-checking the safety after a shot). Absolutely no worries here as far reliability goes.

No question reliability is of the utmost importance - a perfect fitting gun is as worthless as a **** in a thunderstorm if it doesn't go 'bang' when you say 'click'. Granted, maybe some guys have blasted more rounds through their SBEs so they've seen wear issues that I have not. I'd estimate roughly 1500 rounds through mine in 5 years.

I know two people who bought SBE IIs based on my input - my best friend and my boss! Both experienced challenges unfortunately, yet they've worked through them and are now happy.

Bossman had cycling issues (a well-documented issue). After a few hundred rounds and a few douchings with Break-free, he's good to go.

Brotherman had cycling issue too (now gone, see above). One note yet to be mentioned is the SBE II cycling issue can be load related. We've learned the base of the Kent FastSteel hull can cause the problem. The shape is more tapered than that of other loads. When Brohaminus switched to Federals, he hasn't had a jam since. (I recall Danny stating some time ago he had issues with Kent loads, and I'd heard it from another guy too. Well, we know Danny's affinity for, um, swimming? And the other fellas was spraying his loads with WD-40 to prevent rust; Kent primers are not waterproof, thus the WD was soaking the primers causing dud loads. And now we're a bit off track....)

The other complaint from Bro is the re-designed trigger guard on the II - it really rubs his finger the wrong way, so to speak, to the point of blistering and/or causing a small cut. Now he tapes a finger or two before the hunt to prevent the issue. I don't know if it's just his gun, or the combo of his gun and his (small) hand, but it's an issue...

Perhaps you could entice your fellow DA'ers with a beer and a braut to bring their weaponry to Mitchell's or elsewhere so you can test drive?

If all else fails...I saw a really nice Side by Side at the Show last night - a mere $195,000. I touched it...and that's as close as I'll ever get!

[Duck addicted]

Franchi 912 the best gun on the market, i've had mine for 3 years and it hasent jammed yet, and for the price it cant be beat. it's has all the things good about a benelli, but it has a thicker stock and it's raised higher kind of like a browning A-5. it's the best gun and i'll never shoot another brand of gun in my life

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Duck addicted

Franchi 912 the best gun on the market, i've had mine for 3 years and it hasent jammed yet, and for the price it cant be beat. it's has all the things good about a benelli, but it has a thicker stock and it's raised higher kind of like a browning A-5. it's the best gun and i'll never shoot another brand of gun in my life

Those are nice arent they...If I wasnt buying a Extrema 2 that would be my next choice I sure like the Renaissance Line

[Headhunter]

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

If I wasnt buying a Extrema that would be my next choice

Extrema or Extrema2?

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Headhunter

Extrema or Extrema2?

2
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...58630308006678


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7IE_dXoicA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkWvs...eature=related

[ogrejager]

I'm still not sure why Jim wants to switch to an inferior gun?

[Tvfowlhunter]

Pump Shotgun: Remi 870

For autos: 1. Benelli SBE OR SBE II The best Shotgun that fits me and also the most reliable for me. If I did not own a SBE, I would go with the SX 2 or SX 3 which My dad owns both.

TVFOWLHUNTER