pontoon boat buddies?

ampersat · 10-15-2001, 09:13 AM

i'm considering purchasing a waterskeeter pontoon for running the sandy and the clack (and maybe some other rivers as well) during reasonable water levels. i'm wondering how many ifishers run these rivers and would be willing to buddy up for shuttle purposes.

[ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: ampersat ]

Osprey · 10-15-2001, 12:12 PM

Waterskeeter [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]
for you're purpose it should work fine.....please don't call it a Cataraft [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
it's a pontoon boat [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]
theres'a BIG Difference...Os

Sean · 10-15-2001, 02:02 PM

Ampersat - some of that line is OK (the top end specifically), but really heavy (75lbs) as compared to other alternatives (mine is 45). PLEASE do your homework here - I returned my water skeeter and ended up with a Buck's Bags Southfork, and it runs calass 1 & 2 well, but is only an 8' boat. Many manufacturers claim class III water is cake in their boats, but even the heavy one man boats bends a bit in the big water. Are you a good oarsman? How much heavy water do you want to float? Bucks makes the best 10' boat out there in my opinion, the Bronco X. Good luck. I float WS to TC on the Deschutes often in mine, also the McKenzie down low.

ampersat · 10-15-2001, 02:37 PM

first, i've got no experience on the sticks. this is the other reason i was wanting to see if anyone else in ifish-land runs one-man pontoons down the clackamas and sandy rivers. someone who can show me what to look for on the river, show me the lines through each hole and lead the way, and to tell the authorities where to dredge the river for my body. the first reason was to make shuttling easier. before i get out on the river,though, i'd spend plenty of time getting used to the oars on flat water.

i'm looking at the skeeter that is on cabelas.com. it has 7.6ft pontoons, a steel frame and weighs in at 54lbs. i'm not looking to take on the big water; just float the river and hit the good holes on the way down.

i'm trying to decide between getting the skeeter or wait for a cheap used drift boat. at this point, i'm inclined to wait for the boat. just thought i'd see how popular the pontoons are in the ifish community.

Nookie Monster · 10-15-2001, 08:24 PM

ampersat, I'll run with ya. I have an 8 foot Outcast. The manufacturer has the boat rated up to class III, but I've ran it through Hells Canyon on the Snake River (some class IV water - s p h i n k t e r factor 9.5)the Wild and Scenic portion of the Rogue River and the upper portion of the Clackamas River, to name a few. It is the best training tool for teaching a person how to row.
I also have a 12 foot Maravia and a 16 foot Aire.

Osprey, please explain the difference between a cataraft and a pontoon boat?
Thanks. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Capin' Dan · 10-16-2001, 03:20 AM

Hey Monster,
I understand what class one thru five rivers are but what is a (s p h i n k t e r factor 9.5) this is a new one for me. Could you elaborate by chance.

Thanks Dan! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

sandi · 10-16-2001, 04:54 AM

hey nookie monster, have you run Dodge to Oxbox on the Sandy? I have an 8 ft. Outcast as well and have had my eye on that upper section for along time. I probably wouldn't run it the winter - just late spring, summer and fall during low water. Just recently made a test run in the lower section. Had a ball. Only drawback is they do not track very well for backtrolling. Managed to nail a nice steelhead despite.

Osprey · 10-16-2001, 08:09 AM

Oh I thought this post was titled Bu** Buddies [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

I'll try and make this short.

IMHO Catarafts were originaly designed for white water use,by adrenilin junkies [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
for this purpose they have no equal.

Most boats were in the 12-16 foot range.

The smaller boats 8' and smaller(pontoon boats)are based on cat designs (in that they have a frame and 2- tubes)the strength and design of the frames makes them a little scary in heavy water,I seen some ugly things happen to outcast frames when put under a load [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]Just because they make a 10-13 ft pontoon boat it does'nt make it a Cataraft.

A lot has to do with tube design also ,
the rise and curve of the tubes has a lot to do with how it cuts water,I 've seen a few larger pontoon boats than have very low water lines ,this effects how the boat handles and how much weight you can carry and still be able to control the boat.
How's that [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Hey Monster I see you have a 12' Maravia,how would you compare it to you're Outcast????
Maravia makes a slick set of tubes......Os

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

NWRedside · 10-16-2001, 12:23 PM

amperstat, I have an 8ft skeeter, and have used it on both the sandy and the clack. barton to carver, feldhiemers to barton, etc.. also dropped it over revenue bridge on the sandy and went to dodge. worked great, but I will say that it won't take on as big as water as I had imagined. Still a kick though!

Nookie Monster · 10-16-2001, 05:18 PM

Capin' Dan, You asked:
"Hey Monster,
I understand what class one thru five rivers are but what is a (s p h i n k t e r factor 9.5) this is a new one for me. Could you elaborate by chance."

I will try to explain this to you as simply as I can. The s p h i n k t e r factor (sometimes referred to as the buttocks pucker factor) is a rating system developed to help further explain the severity of a situation. In the context of my post, it was used to help clarify how intense a rapid is but it could be used for other situations as well. An example would be, say you are sky diving and you pull the ripcord and nothing happens. This would be an "S" factor of about 8. Then you pull the emergency cord, and nothing happens. This would be an "S" factor of about 9.8. The second before hitting the ground would be a sphinkter factor of 10.

How the number for this rating system is determined is a frequently asked question. I am not sure how the test studies were performed but from what I understand, it is the number of hits it takes to drive a toothpick up your arse with a ball peen hammer.
Thank you for the question... next?

Osprey:
There is no comparison between the Outcast and any product that Maravia makes.

Sandi:
I have floated from Dodge Park to Oxbow Park. It is a fun run. There can be some class III water that you need to watch out for (toilet bowl - pipeline hole) but it is really easy to skirt around the rough water.

Ampersat:
NRS Gear Swap has an 8-foot Outcast for 400 clams, if you are interested.

I like to float the Clackamas River (along with many other rivers) from Indian Henry to the weigh station (just to float, no fishing involved). One day while floating this stretch of river in the 8' Outcast I had quite an experience at Carter's Falls Rapid.

A ledge that spans about 80 percent of the river creates Carter's Falls. The falls is mainly a pour-off with a few boulders thrown in. On the far river left there is about a 30 foot smooth tongue that skirts the falls with large roller waves at the tail end. On the right side of the entrance to the tongue there is a large boulder. The ideal way to run the rapid is to set up river left before reaching the falls, use the boulder as a guide and enter the rapid left of the boulder. This will put you on the tongue. You can ride the tongue all the way down and go through the roller waves at the tail end or make a hard pull right just before the roller waves and go around them.

I was drifting along, daydreaming, not paying as much attention as I should have been to where I was. The next thing I knew, I was quickly approaching the falls. By the time that I had realized the Falls were near I started pulling left to set up and run the tongue. Unfortunately, I was past the point of no return on making it to the left side of the entry boulder. I quickly straightened my boat up and prepared to take a ride over the pour-off. Everything was running cool. I made it over the pour-off upright and in the boat (this is a good thing), unfortunately there was a nasty hole at the bottom of the falls. I hit the hole upright but the hydraulics were so strong I began to slowly get sucked down. I remember sitting in my boat in the middle of this hole with a wall of frothy white water way over my head, and completely surrounding me. I was completely hidden from a person on shore watching me, but I was only waist deep in water, then chest deep. It didn't take me long to realize that I was in well over my head.

I surfaced about 20 feet downstream and started looking around for my boat. I finally spotted my boat, upstream from me, caught in a reversal from the falls. The reversal sucked the boat back into the hole and out of sight. About 5 seconds later the river launched my boat like a rocket, 15 feet straight up in the air (spit it out like a bad vegetable). Craziest thing I have ever seen.

One of the advantages to the smaller boats is their weight. I think the 8-foot Outcast weighs in at around 45 pounds.

My floating partner rescued me, shortly after, and we drug my boat to shore. After discussing what had just happened with my floating partner and the people watching from shore, I checked my boat for damage, picked it up, carried it upstream, and ran Carter's Falls again.

ampersat · 10-16-2001, 06:23 PM

dropped by fisherman's in OC this afternoon and looked at the both the skeeters and the outcasts. one of the salesman there ran pontoons and had some advice, but i wanted to echo it here to hear some other opinions.

he wasn't so hot on the skeeters because they drilled extra holes through their frame tubing for adjustability. his opinion was that the additional holes weakened the frame. made sense to me.

on the outcast, they didn't have the adjustability in the frame but they did have the design set up so that the frame broke down through the center, with the seat holding the two halves together. he didn't seem to have a problem with their design, but it left me feeling somewhat uneasy. why, of all things, use the seat to hold the rig together?

by the way, i've got my name down at fisherman's for one of the skeeter backcasts when they show up. for $269, it's got 8' pontoons, has the deck behind the seat with the anchor rack and comes with the pump to inflate and deflate the pontoons. much better deal than the $325 skeeter from cabelas.

Steelheader69 · 10-16-2001, 06:28 PM

Hey Nookie Monster. Someone who actually has real cats. I'll agree with Osprey on his explenation. I have one of the original Aire 16' Ocelots that is about 12 years old. I originally bought it for whitewatering. I too had an outcast but hated it's performance compared to a true cataraft. I too took my outcast through a class 4 a few times and had the butt pucker seeing my frame twist under me Luckily I pulled through and had no hydraulics to suck me under. That's nice thing about the bigger cats, you can surf those hydros. We'll all have to get our cats together and go for some serious whitewatering. Haven't done it in awhile, mostly use my cat for fishing now. In fact Nookie Ii'm making a cataraft club, emaail me if you're interested.

Hey Sean, the best 10' boats on the market that are "premade" boats are the Steelheader by skookum. They are true fiishing cats. Ii'm not suure if wing makes 10', but NRS makes some nice 10's tubes that would make top notch fishing cat boats. I never liked bucks or outcasts, but they will get you buy if you don't have the $$$. But if you pay the money for a $1400 outcast or buck's then go buy a Steelheader. If the sky is the limit moneywise go have a custom boat made with good tubes.

Just my .02

FlyChucker · 10-16-2001, 06:31 PM

The pontoon boats are great. Just some of the previous post have said you have to use the right tool for the right job.

An Outcast, Bucks, or one of the many others is not going to be an thrill seekers boat. I have a Outcast Pac 1000 (10 footer) and have used it as a play boat down **** 's Canyon several times, Main Salmon and it's great fun on the run from Riggins, ID to I forget the take out, about eight mile day trip. Of course on an 110 degree day you don't mind falling in the water and you have other boats in your group to pick you and your gear up. On the other hand, if it's November and you have $1000+ of spey rods or whatever in the rod holders common sense prevails over courage.

Over here on the east side we use them on the Deschutes, Grande Ronde, Klickitat, Umatilla, etc.. If you ever fish the rivers up around Smithers BC it is THE type of boat to use.

Talk to the folks at 4seasonsfly.com . I've been happy with their service.

ampersat · 10-16-2001, 11:17 PM

finally, some folks out there running pontoon boats!! i'd almost given up.

nookie monster: thanks for the offer. i still have to actually buy the thing and get it shipped here. i'll spend some time with it on the ponds over the winter so i'll be ready to run come spring.

sandi: dodge to oxbow is one of the stretches i'd want to run. when i'm ready to hit the river maybe we can hook up and have a go at it.

Osprey · 10-17-2001, 09:25 AM

Surfing in big Hydrualics....rocks

Monster...I didn't think there would be any comparison betweent he 2,{thats the difference)

remember.....it's still.....just an Outcast [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]......my.02.......Os

ampersat · 10-18-2001, 09:02 AM

anyone ever heard of vladimir as a maker of pontoon craft? andy and bax has a 10' pontoon by them for $599. i've searched the web but couldn't find anything on them.