How dark is too dark?

Nookie Monster · 10-08-2001, 08:06 PM

On Sunday I floated the Clackamas River from Barton to Carver. Just below Dry Creek there is a long hole where the Silver's have been stacking up. I anchored along the shoreline and pitched and retrieved wiggle warts (Michael Jacksons - hee hee) through the slot. I connected with four fish, retaining a hen and buck and releasing a hen and buck. The hen I kept had rosy cheeks and reminded me of a steelhead, the buck was a little darker on top of the head and was starting to form a hooked nose. All of the fish I saw on Sunday had significantly more color compared to the fish I was catching at Buoy 10. When I filleted the fish the color of the flesh was orange like some of the steelhead fillets I have seen at the grocery store. The color was not as deep and vibrant as the Buoy 10 fish although the color and texture seemed to me to be acceptable as table fare. How dark do these Silvers need to get and how much will the meat change color before they are considered to be unacceptable to keep?
I have fished for Kings in Alaska on some of the Copper River drainages and kept fish that had a lot of color to them. The fish were some of the finest eating fish I have had! On the cover of the October-November issue of Salmon Trout Steelheader is a large, well colored, Chinook, not the typical "chrome bright" that everyone gets excited about but I am sure this fish was deemed worthy of the barbecue before it was given a wood shampoo. I have seen a lot of large Alaskan salmon that are dark. How dark is too dark?

birdhunter · 10-08-2001, 08:22 PM

You mean Deep Creek? We got two silvers out of there on Sunday as well. Both mint bright. A lot of those fish had color in them. If they are in the main river, they are still probably okay. Once they get a real big hook-nose or start to lose parts, that is too much. I don't keep many of the fish I catch in Eagle Creek. I was cleaning fish w/ a friend who kept a dark buck from the Clack that I probably would have let go. After cutting it up, the meat looked pretty good. Not too soft, but a light orange, much like you described for steelhead. Don't expect these to be Bouy 10 bright fish. They've gone a long ways by now and it's taken a toll. Bake em, BBQ, smoke em, whatever....just got to catch em first.

Johnny Mac · 10-08-2001, 08:51 PM

Just gotta give some props to the term "wood shampoo" [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Thats classic!

Stz ll · 10-08-2001, 09:04 PM

It is really hard to tell. I have caught hens that were crome bright whose meat was almost white. On the other hand I have caught bucks which had a lot of red color to them where the meat was as bright red as I have ever seen. I am sure this must help a lot.

10-08-2001, 09:27 PM

That's a personal choice. I don't like to eat fish that have lost much of their exterior brightness or pigment and fat stores in their meat.

On the other side of the coin, Kid Sauk uses a unique way to determine his marginal fish worthiness. He brings along a big piece of jet black shinny visquene. He lays the dark fish he catches on this stuff and walks a few paces away. If he can see the fish against this background it's a keeper for him. If the fish diappears and he has to feel his way to it on the visquene then he 'rivives' it and let's it go - after taking a picture first of course. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

RT

Fishhead · 10-08-2001, 10:07 PM

NM, I kept a nice nook the other day from the Sandy. Cut it open and found the meat to be pale in color. I'm use to bright redish-orange. I'll try smoking it to see if it turns out OK. It might turn out to be fertilizer. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Most of the time its anyones guess. If it has a white belly and not a white back then its a good fish in my book. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]........... Fishhead Vic

crabbait · 10-09-2001, 03:36 PM

You can make a small cut near the tail and see the color of the flesh without seriously injuring the fish. They seem to start to turn "white" from the tail first. Another way is to look at the roof of the mouth. If you see reddish areas the flesh will be the same color. Off-white and the fish is probably too far gone.

Hens turn before bucks so a fairly bright hen may be not be nearly as good eating as a "cardboard" buck. This can leave you on the horns of an ennemma: eggs or good eating.

If you smoke one that tastes good but does not have the "beauty" color or the great texture of a chromer, try crumbling it up and mixing it 50-50 with softened cream cheese. Add garlic, chopped green onion and Cajun seasoning to taste (and anything else that suits you). Roll it into a ball and roll the ball in almond slices.

When you serve this to your buddies try to get your hands out of the way in a hurry or you may have to count yer fingers!

We oughta start a brine receipe thread.

Sharp hooks and tight lines.

parker · 10-09-2001, 03:46 PM

"You can make a small cut near the tail and see the color of the flesh without seriously injuring the fish."

Please tell me you are joking. I really don't feel like jumping someone's ignorant shiat right now.

Man, and I thought I had heard it all......

Parker

RichH · 10-09-2001, 03:50 PM

If you're not sure, turn it loose

FishinMission · 10-09-2001, 04:04 PM

Rule of thumb.....

A. If you wouldn't want your picture posted here holding it...let it go.

B. And besides that...if they've been dead for awhile...they lighten up!!

Just use good judgement and go back to "A"

fishbait · 10-09-2001, 06:54 PM

My personal rule is if I would not be proud to show it to my fishing buddies and have my picture taken with it, it goes back. Especially this year where we are able to fill multiple hatchery tags, why in the world would you keep a marginal fish.

Phish_on · 10-10-2001, 07:43 AM

on the horns of an enema? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Salmonator · 10-10-2001, 08:09 AM

Yes Parker, I believe it is called "plugging" a salmon to determine the meat quality and more people do it than you think, myself not being one of them. I share your opinion on this...

[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Salmonator ]

Pilar · 10-10-2001, 08:41 AM

Man, look what I missed when I gave up walking the river bank. Sea lice w/ tails = table fare. Its hard to go wrong on the big blue lake. Even tules are bright in the Ocean.

The only hatchery fish that gets tossed out there was seal bit or shark molested.

Do people really 'biopsy' a questionable fish and then let it go if it is oatmeal?

Tanner · 10-10-2001, 09:20 AM

Parker, Pilar and Others,
I have seen this "biopsy" done on a few occasions and it makes me sick. One of my fishing partners has been known to do this on occasion. He started to do it on a trip with me and I told him "Not if you ever want to step foot on my boat again".

Hey Crabbait,
How about we take a sharp knife and make a small incision on your *** and see how you like it. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

parker · 10-10-2001, 09:58 AM

Huh. I just don't get some people.

Personally, if I'm not 100% positive I want that fish, right then and there, I let it go. If there's even a remote doubt in your mind, let it go. If you even mutter the word "dark, boot, smoke, or native", let it go. Unharmed.

Fished the Hump on Saturday. There was a nice pile of dead chrome silvers at the bottom of the Helicopter hole. All from one boat that was apparently C&R'ing silvers while using eggs under a float. truly was a sad site to see.

Fish just don't do well when they are harassed, sliced, mauled, snagged, netted, or have deeply inhaled bait.

Parker

Ramstrong · 10-10-2001, 10:02 AM

What ever happened to checking the belly? Belly color will give you a good idea and you don't even need to cut the fish. Imagine that. Dark grey or black, let it go. Light grey or alabaster, bonk it baby. Medium grey judgment call, I vote for letting it go.

4Salt · 10-10-2001, 10:34 AM

To quote Parker's fellow Team Vision members from the PP board, "If it ain't chrome, it ain't comin' home." Seems like a pretty good rule of thumb. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] People never cease to amaze me either with their bizzare methods of determining a fish's table quality. Years ago I fished the Hoodsport hatchery for chum (haven't been back since) because all of the rivers were blown out. There was a guy there that was keeping the darkest, skankiest bucks. When questioned about why he was keeping these fish, he proceeded to pick one up and sniff it thoroughly. He said "You can tell by the smell if they'll be good in the smoker." I just about fell down laughing, and he gave me a dirty look and walked off. UNBELIEVABLE [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Simon Peter · 10-10-2001, 10:57 AM

I agree on belly color! That is crucial. Another factor I always think about is timing of the run.

I have caught some fish really late in the season that were chrome with sea lice and when cut open the meat was white. These fish were required to stay out at sea because of low water conditions and had turned out there - or at least that is my assumption.

Springers can be very deceptive in the early season. Anybody who fishes up river for springers can vouch for me on this. You can catch a springer that looks dark and even has dark belly - cut it open and the meat can be deep red - Again, I always think about the timing of the run. If it is early than it is probably worth the chance. If it is late season, let it spawn!

Good question!

crabbait · 10-10-2001, 04:24 PM

Hey guys lighten up!!! We are talking about a small nick not a "plug" and I guess I should have mentioned that I was not talking about any fish that had any chance of spawning, but then I don't fish the redds like some guys.

These hatchery kings are going to end up with their noses pressed against the concrete of the hatchery in no time and a trip to the smoker has got to beat being pitch-forked into the catfood truck.

My apologies.

Mrdorkfish · 10-10-2001, 10:00 PM

geeezzzzz, i have read some posts of fish with ??? RED meat???? Any good Salmon or Steelhead don't have red meat... bright ORANGE !!! only ..omg...red means the blood in will go away and WHITE will appear...BAD FISHY!!!! If it don't shine...it ain't mine! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Mrdorkfish

OMG !! I don't fish where these fish are"STACKED" up.

boater · 10-11-2001, 08:13 PM

to cut a fish open to check the meat is realy , well , retarded, i have never heard of doing that, some things i read on this board are totaly unreal, i must say this is one of them.