Pheasant Hunters

[Blacktail Slayer]

Just thought I would let all the pheasant hunters know that Oregon is $25,000 in the hole after this years pheasant hunt. I saw the end report while working at EE Wilson. The price of birds and feed has gone sky high this year. I don't know what they plan on doing for next year. The average has been about $1,000 in the hole for several years in Oregon until know. If you have any questions, I would suggest calling any wildlife refuge manager or the district habitat biologist.

[rimrock]

Interesting thanks for the info.

I would say they need to increase the fee; it's a put and take hunt for farm raised birds. I think its a good program, gives more people including kids the chance to shoot a pheasant. Higher fee is the answer, if hunters don't want the "higher" fee than the demand for the fee hunt isn't worth ODFW's time.

Basic supply and demand IMO. Hope the program sticks around for those who participate in it.

[ORhunter]

I like it for the dogs because it's still hunting to them. I went down to EE a couple of times a few years ago but now stick closer to home and hunt Sauvies. Wonder how the bottom line is there.

[twolabs]

it's a good way to get the dogs ready for the east side. I don't understand where the monies are going. 7.50 a bird is damn cheap,but when you think of all those guys that go home empty handed i don't see how they lose money. i wish they would throw more birds out at SI.

[Got One!]

Grow winter wheat and milo "off season" and you wont need to "stock" after they get a foot hold. Just look at the midwest...there is no "stocking" (perhaps it doesnt grow here?)

[Reel Knotty]

It would be nice to know how the fee pheasant tag revenue is split amoung the put and take areas (It is Denman, Fern Ridge, Sauvie, and EE Wilson, right?). I have heard of many hunters who buy tags and never take birds. There are many who seem quite good out there as well (good dogs!). Anyone know anything about the budgets? I would really hate to see that program go away. Great place to take my niece and nephew.

[fishstik]

Thats to bad. I know washington stocks birds but its a complete waste of time, the hawks love em and i guess we do to becouse you can just shoot em right where they dump off at. The bottom line for bird survival is Habitat!!!!!!!!! WA and OR really dont have that. I have been killing these birds since i was 12 and have seen alot and talked alot with other people in the know... i know when the chicks are hatched they rely on a certain bug to feed upon and if those bugs arent there becouse of a late frost or tons of rain the chicks chances are slim.

[birddogpooch]

Originally Posted by Blacktail Slayer

Just thought I would let all the pheasant hunters know that Oregon is $25,000 in the hole after this years pheasant hunt. I saw the end report while working at EE Wilson. The price of birds and feed has gone sky high this year. I don't know what they plan on doing for next year. The average has been about $1,000 in the hole for several years in Oregon until know. If you have any questions, I would suggest calling any wildlife refuge manager or the district habitat biologist.

I have been hunting at EE Wilson and SI for about 10 years. ODFW does a great job and I HIGHLY appreciate the opportunity they provide. EE-Wilson provides the birds for SI as well. There is plenty on habitat on the refuges. There are approxamatley 100 hunters/day on the refuge and predators = 0 leftover. Lack of Wild birds in the valley can attributed to Grass Seed farming and urban sprawl = 0 habitat. I would guess that EE-wilson raises and releases around 2000 birds/year. I have no idea how much money is raised by tag sales. I have bought local raised birds in the valley for $11 dollars/bird, basically at cost. So if a bag of 50lb was $10 and they were losing 1k/year, your now saying that the same 50lb bag of feed is now $250 and they are losing $25,000. I don't think so. Tag sales must have plummeted. I would pay $20/tag but when you get around 25/bird I would choose to go to the private hunt clubs.
What is hard to figure out is the private hunt clubs are still charging 25/bird and making money.

[fishingbouchman]

This program is what got me started into and liking bird hunting. Now that I am catching the bug I am wanting to move on and start chasing wild birds. I would hate to see the program go as it is great for beginners and getting your dog ready for the real thing. Wish they could do something to spread the # of hunters out as the release site I usually hunt gets very busy.

[Blacktail Slayer]

fishstik is right. The hawks at EE Wilson probably kill more birds than the hunters. The habitat in Oregon is horrible for pheasants also. There is zero survival over the year. The $25,000 includes gas prices, feed, bird prices, and other things that add up with the pheasant hunt. If anyone does not believe me when I say $25,000 in the hole; then please contact the managers of the refuges or the habitat biologist.

[fishstik]

You know i take back some of what i wrote, if the program gets people in into bird hunting then its not a waste of time, and planting birds on this side of the hill is good for the guys who cant make it east and dont have spots to hunt. The habitat programs right now is our best bet, there is no shortage of feed! just no habitat. It was just a couple years ago when i saw the most birds ever! like shootn in the Dakotas, then the following year it was terrible? why? bad winter? not likely the birds do just fine in the Dakotas, wet spring? the year it was banner was a really wet spring??? I dont get it?

[5 Salt]

Commercial Hunt Pheasant is about $25 per bird with some variations here/there.

They need to increase fees/revenue to cover costs or fold up shop.

$11.50 per bird plus tag sales isn't getting it done assuming they did not have any excess admin or one-time fixed expenses that accounted for unusually high cost this year vs. previous.

They easily could increase fees to $25.00 per and maintain current participation levels - the fuel cost savings of hunting the valley vs. driving east to Tygh, Madras or further would offset the the per bird increase.

Yes some will stop hunting but then others will begin on the chance that it will be less crowded. And it still remains an excellent value for eastern season dog prep, even at potentially/proposed higher rate.

[Hawk]

I don't get where folks are concluding that Oregon can't grow pheasants. I remember back in the 1960's and 1970's they were all over. Yes, farming practices have changed, but they only grow grass seed down in the mid-valley area. Having lived here for 50 years, the amount of urban sprawl is vastly overstated. Yes, there are some areas like Happy Valley and Hillsboro that have spread out a little bit, but not to the extent that it's going to kill the pheasant habitat. I don't think the percentage of developed/occupied land has increased more than about 0.5% statewide over the past 30 years; we still occupy only about 2% of the state's land mass.

I think predation is a much larger problem.

[ORhunter]

Predation is an issue but it is habitat related. SD did an experiment years ago where they cut down every tree that was over 15 feet high. This eliminated perches where hawks could hunt from and the pheasant population responded.
For those of you who haven't hunted the Dakotas, you should. Once you can compare the high production areas of the Dakotas to Oregon, the reason Oregon sucks will become obvious. In Oregon, nothing but crap ground is enrolled in the CRP program and the number of acres is disgusting. We can't have ten acres of nesting and brood habitat surrounded by thousands of acres non-habitat and expect anything good to come of it. In the high production areas of the Dakotas, virtually 75% of the land is pheasant habitat. The rest is homes, roads and some pasture land.
Oregon is unique in the mentality of the land owners also. That isn't a compliment by any means.

[Don Fischer]

I was talking with the people ae E.E. Wilson back in the late 60's maybe early70's. Then they figured that 90% of the birds they released would die in the first week with no hunting. also back then private operators were delivering birds to the field for $7.50 per bird. It was costing the state of Oregon $15 to deliver the same bird. How things might have changed I don't know. But Oregon has been riddled with failures. IE the great Redleg release. I don't recall how many they released over by friend but heard they never saw one since. the thing to remember is that with each one of these loosing operations, the loss likely comes out of your license fees. Probably be going up again before long to pay for the goat planating in the Gourge and that legal encyclopedia they call hunting and fishing regs.

[fishstik]

I agree with ORhunter. Its habitat, habitat, habitat!!!!!! certain amount of habitat sustains a certain amount of birds, good hatches mean more birds but it will go right back to amount of birds the habitat can sustain. The Dakotas have unlimited habitat, thats why they can support an abundance of birds. There is a pile of hawks around and i dont know if its just me but there seems to be more every year, i dont know how much they play a roll in pheasant numbers but i know they get a few. If the state wanted pheasant numbers they could get it by changing some CRP land to habitat that sustains pheasants. i know the birds use the CRP in the early season but soon as the snow flies it all lays over and is useless to the birds.

[Tilla]

The local areas such as Sauvies Is provide good opportunity and close access for getting dogs trained on Pheasants and in tune for the upcoming seasons.
Also helps the local vets income with all those millet seed eye problems.

[oregonoutdoors]

Originally Posted by Blacktail Slayer

fishstik is right. The hawks at EE Wilson probably kill more birds than the hunters. The habitat in Oregon is horrible for pheasants also. There is zero survival over the year. The $25,000 includes gas prices, feed, bird prices, and other things that add up with the pheasant hunt. If anyone does not believe me when I say $25,000 in the hole; then please contact the managers of the refuges or the habitat biologist.

The habitat is not great, but there is some survival. My buddy owns a place next to Fern Ridge that we hunt. The refuge juts out into his property, so lots of the released birds end up there. There is Pheasants there all year long. When we used to hay the place in the summer we would see them all the time. The hawks do get some, but out at Fern Ridge I think that most of the predation happens from all the fox, raccoon and coyotes they have out there. One year our hunting was pathetic, we were finding more dead birds than live ones. After dispatching a few predators the bird numbers returned. With there being no money in trapping I think that there is alot more predators than the state trappers can handle.
.

[PacificPointer]

I also get a kick out of people who claim there are no pheasants in the W. Valley. Their around but its not the classic "in the field" that people want. I have a spot I call 3 P field ..... a 45-60 min run names it that. Once encountered 11 all roosters in a session. Now 1/2 that area is low income housing .

About Fern Ridge.... the youth hunt this year was sad. I dont know if people are broke or not interested or just plain lazy but the showing was weak. Especially when 1/4 of the trucks there are guys looking to guide a kid with their dog. There were spots open and by lunch 3/4 of the people have split. So starting on the "young" end of the spectrum ....... participation :frown:

Again...... The guys that purchase the P tag..... geezzzz saturday morning warriors and then time for the Duck game.

*** Plus the Fact the close the Refuge at 1:00 pm G-Season****
IMO wrecked the best hunting there. We always " used " to out in the afternoon and score birds. Now dawn patrol in the wet with the warriors.

But I go ...... because its fun and heres one of them P-birds

[scottishsetter]

Wheat ranchers have alot of wheat in cleaning out their silos that could be put to good use if someone would take it to EE Wilson.

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by fishstik

Its habitat, habitat, habitat!!!!!!

Where and how is the habitat now any different than 30-40 years ago? Some cities are slightly larger, but I'm not seeing these vast expanses of habitat that are no longer suitable for pheasants. Where has the habitat changed and how has it changed?

The area around Woodburn, west of I-5 out past St. Paul and south to Brooks used to have tons of birds. Donald used to good numbers of birds. Filbert orchards all over used to hold birds (calling them filberts shows you how old I am!); I still see lots of filbert orchards but they never have any birds in them.

I just don't see how the habitat is so hugely different.

[fishstik]

Hawk,
I am talking the east side.

[triggerman]

First off I grew up in South Dakota and go back there all the time to shoot pheasents so I know a thing or two about it!! The bottom line is back there they farm for the birds and leave areas for them like standing corn and so on, so there is an over abundance of food and cover!!! Unlike out here,.........and pheasent hunting out at Sauvies is a joke!!! Thanks but no thanks, I'll continue to go back to So Dak and shoot wild birds!!!!




Triggerman

[fishstik]

Thanks triggerman.
Thats what i mean....I dont think planted birds on this side of the mountains is to much of a joke becouse its all we got! kinda like a trout farm for a kid in LA. We would never get any farmers over here to farm like they do in the Dakotas though, especially when white wheat went for over 12$ a bushell this year, the farmers made some money this year!!!

[ORhunter]

Triggerman.

I don't even think about hunting till I've crossed the Montana border.

You got all those roosters by 9:00 right?

[hawg boss]

Originally Posted by fishstik

We would never get any farmers over here to farm like they do in the Dakotas though, especially when white wheat went for over 12$ a bushell this year, the farmers made some money this year!!!

The price of wheat may help in geting some of our Pheasants back here in the valley. We have lost most of the habitat, but in some places the habitat is still there, but the birds are mostly gone. The diference in the places where there is still habitat is that the wheat fields were changed to grass fields. The main problem with this change of crop is harvest time. Grass seed fields tend to get harvested earlier while the phesants are still nesting. If they convert back to wheat we should get more recruitment in the areas that still have some habitat and the Dove hunting will improve also from the left over wheat after harvest.

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by fishstik

Hawk,
I am talking the east side.

The east side is an even better example. The riparian areas between the crop circles should hold tons of birds. The riparian areas between wheat fields should hold tons of birds. Most of the CRP I've seen over there is cr*p, so I don't think it's going to hold many birds. But, there's enough water and the habitat in these other areas should hold tons of birds, but they don't. Shucks, even the A+ properties in the A&H and UCAP programs don't hold large numbers of birds (not that there's a lot of A+ property in either program).

So there must be something, like predation, that are lower the bird populations.

[fishstik]

I give up. I-know it all's win.

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by fishstik

I give up. I-know it all's win.

Didn't mean to upset you; I'm just interested to learn more people's opinions and wanted you to explain your perspective on the loss of habitat over on the east side.

[DidIPutThePlugIn]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Didn't mean to upset you; I'm just interested to learn more people's opinions and wanted you to explain your perspective on the loss of habitat over on the east side.

Hawk, I grew up on a small farm in the middle of the Willamette Valley and used to hunt pheasant and quail all the time as a kid. farming practices have changed. There is a tiny fraction of the corn and wheat grown as there used to be for starters. Fence rows which used to offer great habitat and protection from predators have been plowed under. I don't blame the farmers their trying to make a living, but it is what it is. Look around when you drive through heavily farmed areas, see if you can spot grass and thickets growing between fields and around the edges. You'll see a little but nothing like you would have just 10-20 years ago.

Raptors and Owls take out game birds, but here in the Valley barnyard and feral cats are some of the worst killers of birds. The Audobon Society estimates feral cats kill in excess of 1 BILLION BIRDS a year in the US.

I've thought about this in the past and if others are interested I'd love to come up with a plan we could work out with farmers that would provide better habitat and not cut into their bottom line. Don't know if that plan exists but I'm sure their are some smart people on here who might know.

[fishstik]

Hawk, oh no i am not upset, its just every year i try to think of ways to make pheasant huntung better here in washington. i have a place on the east side and am friends with alot of farmers and land owners (not all farmers own the land they work) they could care less about them birds and i dont blame em. they want to farm every square inch of dirt and at 12$ a bushell i dont blame em again and the equipment they are using these days is getting quit sophisticated. There just isnt a good way to tell a landowner to take a hit in the pocket book so i can kill more birds.

[Hawk]

Thanks guys, that clarifies the perspective.

How do they do it in SD? I thought I had read where they pay farmers to leave riparian areas around their fields when they harvest, or something like that.

[ORhunter]

Yes there is some cash incentive in many cases but lots of it is voluntary. Like I said, the farmer mentality is much different here than in the Dakotas.

[CombinationLicense]

I posted the information below on a similar thread a few days ago. For those that are interested, there is LOTS of information available on the topic of improving land management practices for the betterment of wild game birds.

"CL"


Re: Biodiesel's Benefit for Oregon Pheasants
Let me start by saying that I am not a guru on this subject but have started studying up on it recently (since upland hunting is one of my favorite passions). There's a lot more to the problem than the exchange of serial crops for grass seed, although that's part of it. The thing to do is look at the states that have successful upland bird conservation programs and see what they're doing. The solution involves not only field buffers for cover & food but predator control and wooded shelter belts for winter survival. Pheasants Forever is heavily involved in improving game bird habitat through several different avenues. You can read up on the strategy that's working in South Dakota and other mid-western states on the PF Habitat web page.

Changing the current private land management practices is the key to the problem and using incentive programs to offset the lost revenue from abandoning fence to fence farming is an effective method to get there. These incentive programs are also available for grassland and wetland preservation but unfortunately for upland hunters they are underutilized here. I posted some information about the Farm Bill a while back that went largely unnoticed. Not all these programs are new but take a look at some of the things it does:

Conservation Reserve Program (CRP): CRP offers annual payments for 10-15 year contracts to participants who establish grass, shrub and tree cover on the environmentally sensitive lands. Enrollment offers are ranked for selection using the Environmental Benefits Index (EBI), which weighs six environmental factors and cost.
More Information

CRP also includes:

• Conservation Reserve Enhancement Program (CREP)
• Farmable Wetlands Program (FWP)

Wetlands Reserve Program (WRP): WRP allows for the purchase of long-term or perpetual easements and cost-share to producers who agree to restore wetlands on agricultural land.
More Information

Wildlife Habitat Incentives Program (WHIP): WHIP provides cost-share for projects developing or enhancing wildlife habitat through 5- and 10-year contracts.
More Information

Farmland Protection Program (FPP): FPP provides funds to states, tribal or local governments and nonprofit organizations to help purchase development easements on productive farmland. Eligible lands include cropland, rangeland, grassland, pastureland and forestland.

Conservation Security Program (CSP): The new CSP provides paymetns to producers for adopting various management, vegetative and structural practices that benefit a "resource of concern" such as soil, water and wildlife habitat. Both cropland and grazing lands are eligible.

Producers participate at one of three levels or tiers:

• Tier I contacts address at least one resource of concern for 5 years
• Tier II contacts are for 5-10 years that address at least one resource concern over an entire operation
• Tier III contacts are for 5-10 years and address multiple resource concerns over an entire operation

Report language allows for alternative uses of lands incidental to the farming operation to be eligible as a wildlife habitat in CSP (e.g. center pivot corners, small odd areas).
More Information

Grassland Reserve Program (GRP): GRP assists landowners through long-term contracts or easements in restoring grassland and conserving native prairie.
More Information

Environmental Quaility Incentives Program (EQIP): EQIP provides technical assistance and cost-share payments to assist crop and livestock producers with environmental and conservation improvements. Wildlife habitat practices are specifically maintained as a purpose of the program.
More Information

Conservation Practice (CP33):
More Information

3rd Party Technical Assistance (TA): TA for program implementation is to come directly from individual program accounts. The Secretary of Agriculture is directed to develop and implement a system for approving third party providers, including nonprofit organizations like Quail Forever.

Forest Land Enhancement Program (FLEP):

Farm and Ranch Lands Protection Program (FRPP):

Additional sites of interest:

• CRP Information
• NRCS FarmBill Program list

The ODFW does do great work through the Access and Habitat program but more can be done - lots more! It's up to us to make sure that it's recognized as a priority for hunters by contacting ODFW, the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission and both state/local governments.

"CL"