Satellite phones revisited, owners/users opinions?

[Chum Bucket]

In 2008, I'll be required to have either a satellite phone or an SSB (single side band) past 20nm offshore. SSB requires a powerful radio, antenna tuner, and I think you need a fairly big antenna too. Realistically, I'd only use a SSB for emergencies anyway? A sat phone I can take hiking in the mountains or for traveling as well.

I read through some old threads on this subject and was wondering if anything has changed?

By far, Globalstar is the cheapest-best bang for the buck, but spotty or no coverage seemed to be a problem with the Salty Dogs in the posts I read. Anyone advise if Globalstar has gotten better? The other satellite phone companies are considerably more money, lots more, but want to know if it's worth it.

Sat phone and SSB users...I could really use your candid opinions on this.
Can I install a SSB without having a 25' antenna?

Thanks

[tippet]

Chumbucket,

I researched this last year and one of the reasons globalstar is so much cheaper is that their service has problems. They are launching a new set of satellites that should remedy problems with connecting and dropped calls - by sometime in 2009. For now it can take up to 20 minutes to connect and get a call out.

I ended up purchasing 2 reconditioned phones (about 500 each) and pre-paid minutes (about 200 minutes that were good for 3 months - perhaps 300 bucks if I remember right) to have at base camps where I do my research in Nevada. I had great success with the service provided by Iridium and could always get calls out in short order. This year I will be extending the plan so I can take one of the phones out when going offshore.

Tippet

[Seelicious]

The Garibaldi guys that have globalstar were more than disappointed with the service this summer.

Tuna Time went to the cell phone booster and is lovin' it! $300-$400 and it worked well at the 125 line.

[flapbreaker]

Originally Posted by Seelicious

The Garibaldi guys that have globalstar were more than disappointed with the service this summer.

Tuna Time went to the cell phone booster and is lovin' it! $300-$400 and it worked well at the 125 line.

That's great to hear. I purchased a cell antenna and booster this winter and was hoping to extend my cell range.

[Seelicious]

Chum Bucket...sorry for getting off track...Iridium is the Sat phone if you're required to have one.

El Shaddai has said nothing but good things about his phone and service.

[Chum Bucket]

I forgot to check Iridium, didn't come to mind. The phones are expensive, but the plans are somewhat reasonable (in relation to satellite phones). I see Iridium has an emergency plan with 2 minutes/month included. I'm buying a cell booster anyways. I'm still shopping around, but the emergency plan looks promising, at least to be in compliance with the USCG.

Great info, keep it coming.

[StickFish]

I can speak to the SSB issues if you like. Can you use an antenna other than a 25 foot antenna. Yes - and it depends. For instance on a sail boat, they do not install a large vertical antenna, they usually attach the output of the antenna tuner to the back stay for the main mast - that is obviously longer than 23'. There are vertical antennas that are shorter than 23' but they are from a company called SGC. They have them in 7', 9', 28'. On SGC's web site they specify the word "Marine" in the description of the antenna. I would look at your SSB requirements and see if the equipment has to be type accepted for marine ssb use. In all cases the antenna used for Marine SSB will have to have an antenna tuner to make the antenna broadcast across the very wide frequency coverage for Marine SSB. The tuner basically fools the antenna into believing that it is something other than it is. For instance Shakespeares SSB antenna resonates at 10mhz, but by using the tuner you can use that antenna on any of the Marine SSB frequencies.

Obviously the smaller the antenna the less efficient it is going to be. However, I have talked all over the world on a 9' antenna on the back of my truck using 100 watts of power. When I helped Maverick Maxcat install the SSB rig in his boat, my test was to flip over to 7mhz and chat with some Ham Radio operators in San Diego - worked like a champ and sounded like they were sitting in the boat with us.

Yes SSB isn't cheap, new gear you are talking a couple grand obviously used will be cheaper. Icom and SGC are both very respected companies for Marine SSB.

I tried to make it as jargon friendly as possible, but if you have questions, please feel free to ask. I PM'd the SGC antenna like to you to take a look at

[Chum Bucket]

I am dizzy trying to decifer all the Code of Federal Regulations, but more research is obviously needed. Thanks Stickfish, great link.

[Goldrush]

Chumbucket, is this an inspected vessel issue with respect to the 20 mile offshore? I'm required to have a SSB, and use it quite a bit from time to time. I went on the low end of price--the ICOM 700Pro, have an SEA tuner, and a 26' MORAD antenna. The system works awesome. And with the newer digital technology, the newer models must work even better, especially on the squelch. Pricey, but no monthly fees.

Kevin

[KeyWest]

Originally Posted by Seelicious

The Garibaldi guys that have globalstar were more than disappointed with the service this summer.

Tuna Time went to the cell phone booster and is lovin' it! $300-$400 and it worked well at the 125 line.

Bud - Don't suppose you know what booster Dick has? I'm guessing it's a Wilson? I sacked my Global Star phone this year as service was so poor. Also, I sent the phone in for repair and they sent back a different phone without my SIM. Repeated attempts to get it remedied were unsuccessful.

Odin now has my phone and hands free set (as soon as he picks it up - it's waiting in the garage Bob). I'm looking into Iridium, but if a cell booster will make it to the 125 line - that's good!

I also picked up a SPOT this winter. Pretty cheap at $150 + $100 a year service.

[Seelicious]

Dean...I don't but I'll ask him.

[olybirds]

im interested in the Cell Booster as well. Ive seen some where you can use the one antenna for use with multiple phones. Is this the setup he has?

[Seelicious]

We're getting off Chum's question...we can start a cell booster thread easy enough.

[havnfun2]

i have a cell phone booster. use a 8ft. digital ant., depending on your phone model/make the booster unit will plug into the phone or like mine goes on the out side of the phone, can use my booster on several different phones. power max is the model made by digital ant co.

[KeyWest]

Originally Posted by Seelicious

Dean...I don't but I'll ask him.

No worries Bud - I can call him..

[Chum Bucket]

Thanks Bud...

Originally Posted by Goldrush

Chumbucket, is this an inspected vessel issue with respect to the 20 mile offshore? I'm required to have a SSB, and use it quite a bit from time to time. I went on the low end of price--the ICOM 700Pro, have an SEA tuner, and a 26' MORAD antenna. The system works awesome. And with the newer digital technology, the newer models must work even better, especially on the squelch. Pricey, but no monthly fees.

Kevin

Documented, but not inspected. Just got my OUPV and will have my charter license. I want the option to do halibut and tuna AND be in compliance with the CFR's and USCG. Prob never get checked, but with my luck I ain't risking it. I looked at the 700pro. Boy, they go up quickly in $$$ from there!

I like the versatility of a sat phone, but the SSB isn't relying on a satellite and no monthly fees. Then there's also the FCC license to add another point. Should be able to include with the radio operator license?

I looked at the same unit, but do not want the 26' antenna. Stickfish gave me a company up in Bellevue for a shorter antenna option. I'll be talking to them tomorrow.

Will update when I know more. Thanks so much for all the info, it's very helpful in making an informed decision.

A cell booster is also in the works. Like to let the wife know when I'm inbound from offshore to alleviate her worries.

[Nalu]

Just my opinion here, but...... as a charter I feel it is in your best interest and the best interest of the group you represent to follow best practices of the industry. Adding the appropriate antenna for a SSB should not encumber your vessel to a degree that it is an issue, and you are guaranteed of having more reliability than a sat phone.

In addition, the initial fixed cost will quickly (a couple years) become less than the incurred cost of yearly sat phone fees and equipment.

I fully understand your initial perception of weighing cost versus benefit, but when you are carrying paying passengers the cost should really be negated by what is overall in the best interest of your clients and those you are now associated with.

[Chum Bucket]

I always welcome your opinion Nalu and I wholeheartedly agree with your thinking...safety is paramount!

I'm leaning towards the SSB, but the lure of taking a sat phone hiking into the wilderness areas this summer is a very good reason to get one. Kinda tough to put an SSB in the 50# backpack. One thing is for sure, I can't afford both at this moment.

Anyways, work didn't allow me an opportunity to talk to the SSB people today while on the clock. Will try tomorrow.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by Chum Bucket

I always welcome your opinion Nalu and I wholeheartedly agree with your thinking...safety is paramount!

I'm leaning towards the SSB, but the lure of taking a sat phone hiking into the wilderness areas this summer is a very good reason to get one. Kinda tough to put an SSB in the 50# backpack. One thing is for sure, I can't afford both at this moment.

Anyways, work didn't allow me an opportunity to talk to the SSB people today while on the clock. Will try tomorrow.

No question, if the sat phone was more reliable and more affordable that is what I would choose hands down. I looked into the Iridium phones and monthly activation for sim cards and that has some definite merit. If there is good feedback on certain ones and the price is reasonable, I would certainly consider changing from a SSB to a sat phone.

[tippet]

I will say again that I have had no problems with Irridium - nothing but fast and clear connections. And as Nalu pointed out, the short term sim cards allow you to have the phone active only for a few months if you dont need it year round.

Tippet

Originally Posted by Nalu

No question, if the sat phone was more reliable and more affordable that is what I would choose hands down. I looked into the Iridium phones and monthly activation for sim cards and that has some definite merit. If there is good feedback on certain ones and the price is reasonable, I would certainly consider changing from a SSB to a sat phone.

[StickFish]

Originally Posted by Nalu

No question, if the sat phone was more reliable and more affordable that is what I would choose hands down. I looked into the Iridium phones and monthly activation for sim cards and that has some definite merit. If there is good feedback on certain ones and the price is reasonable, I would certainly consider changing from a SSB to a sat phone.

One of the big pluses to sat phone over SSB is pretty much anyone can figure out how to use a SAT phone nowadays. Operates like you typical cell phone and it is a far more universal interface than a SSB rig. You have to turn the radio on - figure out which band is working and speak into a microphone. Course if it is your gear you get used to operating YOUR gear. But God forbid something happens to the skipper and the paying passengers have to figure out how to summon help

[onaga]

My experience with globalstar is as follows: 4 years ago we purchased phone for use on construction projects in the national forests where there was no cell coverage. The phone worked great with 2 exceptions: 1) You had to be in an intersection of two roads to have enough clear sky to get good satelite service. You just couldn't make a call anywhere. This was in Olyimpic National Forest and they do have some dense/large trees though. 2) You had to have the antenae pointed up in order to recieve calls. So if you weren't in the above location and did not have the antenae up you couldn't get calls. Not so bad but I had to check messages often. This summer I used it out of Garibaldi and had several times that I did not have service. All were short amount of times ( 10 min.) but...what if....I hope the service gets better again as it's nice being able to have your son call his grandmother 2 minutes after he lands his first tuna...Yippieeeeee

[Goldrush]

One other point that I should make is how sketchy the USCG reception of SSB has been in the past. Perhaps it is better now. During several yearly inspections, the CG inspector has had me call Astoria on VHF ch 16 to tell them to turn their SSB on. Maybe it was the time of the year? Most of the time my radio check was picked up, and answered by, Tofino. Certainly if there was an emergency, mariners on 4125.0 could easily be raised, and I'm sure on 2182 as well.

Kevin

[Tuna Dog]

I picked up an Iridium phone last summer and it works like a champ with no problems.. I went with it because of the problems with Globalstar and if you ever go down to Mexico or farther south the Iridum has better coverage.
I bought 500 minutes that can be used in any 12 month period.

[Moldy Mike]

Yo Dogs,
I can echo the disapointment with Globalstar. The first year I had it was OK. Last season on the Tuna grounds it was a crap shoot everyday for a signal or not! They (Globalstar) offered a list of coverage times in the PNW which was somewhat helpful, although the "list" would have been mostly useless in an emergency situation. I carry a good Epirb and liferaft so the emergency factor didn't bother me as much as the general hassle. They (Globalstar) also told me they were "working the problem". Maybe I will wait it out as switching at this point would cut into the gas budget...
But... I WOULD NOT GO GLOBALSTAR AGAIN!!
Fish ON!! I approve this message. Mike Horner... AKA... Moldy Mike