Steelhead?'s

[Robert]

I always thought thata steelhead was a rainbow trout that went to the ocean and came back. Is this true? If it is not then how can a store sell farmed raised steelhead?

Will defer to the experts here, but Steelhead are in fact part of the Salmonoid family, not the trout family, they just don't spawn and die, unless they are too weak to make it back out.

[ 10-04-2001: Message edited by: ****** ]

[Osprey]

I'm no Biologist but a Steelhead is a trout [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
thats why they can be repeat spawners. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]......Os


Proud to be an American

[ 10-04-2001: Message edited by: Osprey ]

O's you will find out, they are indeed not a trout. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Hawgwash]

If Microsoft says its a trout it must be....... Any biologists out there that can educate us?

steel·head [stl hèd ] (plural steel·heads, steel·head) noun
kind of rainbow trout: a rainbow trout that has matured in the North Pacific Ocean and acquired a silver coloration, popular for sport fishing


Encarta® World English Dictionary [North American Edition] © & (P) 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

I hope they don't get sued for this too! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Robert]

Are rainbow trout a trou or a salmon. Both rainbow trou as well as steelhead have the exact same scientific name. If rainbows are trout then steelhead are also trout, because they have the same scientific name.

[rob allen]

There is no such rhing as a rainbow trout!!!!! there are ONLY land locked steelhead

[DanS]

The rainbow trout, steelhead, cutthroat trout, golden trout, and Pacific Salmon ALL belong to the same Genus: Oncorhynchus. There is no gentic difference between a steelhead and a resident rainbow.

Atlantic Salmon and brown "trout" belong to the Salmo genus, as did steelhead until they were reclassified.


Brook trout, char, lake trout, and Dollies/Bull trout belong to the genus Salvelinus.

So basically, the word "trout" is just a generic, non-scientific label we put on fish. The kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species are a better way to distinguish between fishes.

[Robert]

Good job Dan. Are you some kind of scientist? Or just rember this from biology class? I could not rember how they were related. Is there a difference between rainbows and steelhead, like going to the ocean?

I bow out of this one. Guess we are all someone right. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] OSU extension service
opinion:

Oregon has nine salmon-like fish

The word "salmon" brings to mind different things to different people. When you discuss the future of salmon and the Endangered Species Act, it's important to recognize the diverse kinds of fish in the salmon family.

Nine species of salmon-like fish are native to Oregon, but this group includes many subgroups with very different biological characteristics. The species:

Seven salmon (all members of the scientific genus Oncorhynchus):
chinook
coho
sockeye
chum
pink
steelhead
cutthroat trout

No breeding populations of pink salmon are left in the state, although a pink salmon occasionally appears in the Columbia River.

Different forms of each of the above species have adapted to different aquatic environments.

For example, some forms of a species can be "anadromous," meaning they were hatched in fresh water but spend a large part of their lives in the ocean before returning to fresh water to reproduce. Yet other forms of the same species live in fresh water throughout their lives. For instance, rainbow and redband trout, which remain in fresh water throughout their life cycles, are "resident" forms of the steelhead species.

Also, some groups of anadromous fish travel from the sea into fresh water at different times of the year. Thus, there are "spring chinook" and "fall chinook" in some rivers. Sometimes these are called different "runs."

[happybrew]

The old thinking was that salmon and trout were not as closely related as they are. Now, because of genetic research, it has been determined that they are much more closely related than was previously thought, so they switched rainbow trout from the genus Salmo to the genus Oncorhynchus.

Some scientists think that steelhead (and all rainbow trout) originated from a trout species in the Colorado River, then migrated down into the Gulf of California, where they had access to more coastal streams. They slowly worked their way up the coast. Some populations were isolated by geologic events, and evolved into Golden Trout and Redband Trout. There are still remnant runs of these ancient strains of steelhead along the Southern California Coast. Their existence has been denied by those who would be affected by an endangered species listing, and they will probably be extinct soon, if they are not already. Many strains have gone extinct in the 20th century.

Personally, I would like to see the central and southern California steelhead runs brought back, but that would require removing all of the concrete channels they have put the streams into, and allowing them to revert to their natural state, along with the flash flooding that would occur. And of course, everybody down there builds in the flood plain because it's flat.

happybrew

[Got Fish?]

DanS... I read your comment in class and had to stop myself from laughing out load! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Good one Dan. But I didn't stay at Holiday Inn last night, so I need some feedback. Why do many streams, such as the Deschutes River and Yakima River, have resident non-anadromous fish refered to as rainbow trout (famous Resides in Oregon's Deschutes) as well as anadroumous steelhead trout? What is the exact difference, other than one heads out to sea to eat and grow? I can't recall where, but I read some time ago that the genetics do differ somewhat bewteen these two co-inhabitants. Now they are classified the same. Easier paperwork? ESA factors at work? Or what? Inquiring minds want to know.

RT

[DanS]

RT,

I read an interesting article recently (working on a link) that discussed the latest genetic work being done on steelhead and resident rainbow trout.

The findings of this study were that not only is there no distinguishable genetic difference between steelhead and resident rainbows within a specific system, but there was also no way to determine which fry would become residents, and which fry would smolt and become steelhead. Fry from anadromous fish may "decide" to become residents and fry from resident redds may "decide" to become andromous. Freaky, huh?

Apparently, some individual fish determine that being anadromous would be of benefit to them and out they go, while other individuals determine they are better suited to being residents and they take up residence within the system.

I thnk parker is majoring is Fisheries Science......maybe he could provide us some links to the latest studies?

[DanS]

No, I'm not a scientist..........but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[4Salt]

Just a few more informational tidbits, if anyone's interested:

Anadromous - From the Greek, meaning "to run up."

Oncorhynchus - From the Greek, meaning "Hooked nose, or snout."

[ 10-04-2001: Message edited by: 4Salt ]

[AllThumz]

A couple of months ago at the Albany Steelheaders meeting, the South Santiam hatchery manager and a fisheries biologist were the guest speakers.

The biologist indicated pretty much what DanS is saying, that some steelhead (as well as Chinook) don't migrate.

Do the resident steelhead become classified as resident rainbows? If native steelhead fry do not migrate, then would one assume they become native rainbows?

Since there doesn't seem to be a lot of historical data, are the current resident rainbows descended from steelhead?

I think I left the meeting more confused than when I arrived [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

John [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

[Osprey]

Damit Dan,I just spit my latte' all over my key board .....rotflmfao

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> O's you will find out, they are indeed not a trout. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry ******.... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img].......must be that oregon education (jk) [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Proud to be an American

[Vinny]

Actually . . .

Resident steelhead are a lower life form of steelhead. This is based on years of scientific studies upon myself (and other humans), applied to fish.

Lower life forms generally stay close to home and eat fast food. Higher life forms (take me for example [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] ) are willing to venture a little farther from home for a better meal.

Had I applied for a federal grant, the Ifish community would have had the benefit of my study much sooner. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

That's OK O's...anyone that rows a raft does not see real Salmon that often anyway! LOL. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[TheRogue]

Oh, that's good Vinny!!!

[Jellyhead]

I know I've read somewhere that in Russia, there are "steelhead" that really aren't steelhead. They are rainbows that live in the freshwater river in the warmer months, then because of the severe winter are basically pushed into the salt, and then return as the water gets warmer. I thought this was intersting when I read it, I just wish I could remember where or what the name of the river was.

This could have been how southern strains of steelhead developed. The water got too warm in the summer and migrated into the cooler ocean, returning later in the year when the temps cooled down? I don't know? Just my 02.

Aaron

Thanks HappyB!

Here is one; how about Chinook? I know Atlantics appear in Europe, but how about Chinook?

What an eduction I get here in ifish!

[Osprey]

Thanks Nonook [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
As soon as I start rowing a raft [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]someone shoot me.....Os

Lot's-a-Nook, not Nonook to you O's! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Washington guys anyway. Hey, is it true, a fair hook up there is anywhere in the head, inside or outside the fish? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Seven SALMON (all members of the scientific genus Oncorhynchus):
chinook
coho
sockeye
chum
pink
STEELHEAD
cutthroat trout

[ 10-05-2001: Message edited by: ****** ]

[Ramstrong]

I believe that all western trout that were formerly in the genus Salmo have been reclassified in Oncorhynchus, including the Gila and Apache trout. They were found to be meristic and genetically more similar to the salmon than the European trout.

The farm raised steelhead was probablly a triploid rainbow that was fed the pellets that make the meat red. ODFW stocks the 2lb trophy trout that are fed pretty much the same thing, they aren't triploids as far as I'm aware.

Also here's a good
link if you're interested in life histories and distribution of the pacific salmon. At the bottom of the page is a list of the pacific salmon species including the asian species.

[ 10-05-2001: Message edited by: Ramstrong ]

[DanS]

Ryan,

Not only are the Gila and Apache part of the genus Oncorhynchus, but also the Golden, Paiute, and resident rainbow.

******,

The fact that steelhead belong to the same genus as Pacific salmon does not mean that they are also salmon. That would mean the resident rainbow (or Golden, or Apache, or Gila) is also a salmon. Basically, the words salmon and trout are laymen's terms, and are not used in the scientific classification of fishes.

WHO CARES? I bowed out early. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Besides, I ain't questioning anyone who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. Look what it did for KISS! They all fight good and taste wonderful. LOL. Good fun you guys. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I still think O's hooks em' anywhere in the head though, inside or out and calls em' good! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ 10-05-2001: Message edited by: ****** ]

Great topic. Here is a question, albiet probably a dumb one....

Where else in the world to Steelhead exist? Asia? Newzeland? I know some S. American countries raise steelhead for consumption. Just need a little geography lesson today.

[happybrew]

East Side Dave- Steelhead exist in Chile, Siberia (native), the Great Lakes, and possibly parts of China.

[parker]

I'm not a scientist, but I did get a BS in Fishery Sciences from the U of W.

What DanS said! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Parker
"I'm not a real ichthyologist, I just play one on i-fish."

[happybrew]

Eastside Dave: I'm not sure about Chinook, but I think they put some of those in Chile and New Zealand, and of course the Great Lakes. Oh yeah! They put steelhead in some rivers in Scandinavia as well.

happybrew

[SSPey]

there are chinook in S. America, naturalized (though not native). Some of the chinook migrate so far that they cross the Chile border at the Andes and make it into high elevation areas of Argentina. Some major rivers down there since at the 45 ish latitude S. America gets more rain than N. America.

Regarding the genetic differences, just remember that hatchery trout are genetically identical to many wild trout yet behave quite differently. Puny humans, we have much to learn...