know your rights

[rob allen]

Bird hunter according to your post the State of Oregon and the state supreme court is violating federal law.
The summery of all the federal cases indicates that if a river is floatable it is therefore navigaable and therefore state owned property held in trust specifically for public use. We need a suit to go to the US supreme court because federal law is extremely clear and our rights are being violated by the state. According to federal law if it is floatable for tital purpose (ie fishing) then it is legally navigable. There is no other criteria.

[SSPey]

Rob,

I agree 100% with your intents but it is simply not that simple. I would love for all rivers to be considered navigable, but again, there are different definitions of what constitutes navigability, particulary in a historical context which really sets the tone for this discussion (that is, was it navigable and expressly used for such purposes at the time of statehood). This becomes fuzzy gray legalize semantics **** , and if the US supreme court wants to defer to the states (which they will given the current tone of the supreme court, see e.g., the presidential election situation that transpired in Florida), then we are stuck with the current situation being decided on the John Day. Keep the faith, but do not assume that in all cases you are in the right when wading a stream. Geez - a kayak can go down just about anything, but tell that to a landowner sporting a shotgun and a head full of steam. Just pray that the NW Steelheaders will be there to back you up. This John Day case will be the litmus test of their involvement on this into the future.

[DanS]

f'n'f

Read the link I supplied. It IS that simple.

A landowner sporting a shotgun will be a landowner on his way to jail.

The US Supreme Court handed down their ruling, and US Supreme Court rulings CANNOT be overturned by a lower court. This ruling is new, so not every law officer will know what it says. Click the link I provided, print the page out, and carry it with you in your vest. It spells out the supreme court ruling very well.

[SSPey]

Dan,

I can't see where in the link that it mentions a recent ruling that somehow clears up the fuzziness in this situation. Where do I find this detail?

I think that the link that you provided sums up one perspective well. If it were that easy then the John Day situation would be an open and closed case. What hasn't the case been closed? Because there must be loopholes that are not clearly articulated in the link that you provide. Right or wrong, loopholes are what keep the lawyers in business and keep clearcuts right up to the edge of some Oreon rivers (don't even get me started on this...)

I'm not sure that a gun toting land owner would put the gun down, smile, and agree to reading the info on the link that you gave, though I wish he/she would ... so let me know how it goes..

[DanS]

F'n'F,

I included a couple more links. These reference the Supreme Court rulings on the issues being discussed. Take a close look at what the first page says about what to do in case of river disputes. The secong link provides a longer list of legal cases regarding river ownership, navigability, and access issues.
http://www.adventuresports.com/river...law-public.htm
http://www.adventuresports.com/river...-law-cases.htm

[rob allen]

ALL land and water on all navagatable streams is state owned property held in trust for public title use. This right pre-dates and superceeds all deeds and private ownership. If you can float a river in any type of craft under normal water conditions it is state owned and set aside for your use. Once you gain public access to any navagitable river you can go anywhere below the normal high water mark in any state! It is federal law. If you are kicked off "private" land notify the authorities that your rights have been violated. You may anchor, tie up to anything and even walk the dry bank up to the normal high water mark!

for more info and info about court cases go to http://www.nors.org/us-law-menu.htm

Don't let property owners take away your rights they do not own the land below the high water mark regardless of what their deeds say!

Also though respect the fact that they have to live there, be quiet,and take out your trash!

[birdhunter]

From the horse's mouth:

Although the public has a right to navigate on waters where the bed is privately-owned, this may not include the right to wade or otherwise use the bed and banks of privately-owned uplands.

OSMB Navigable Waters

State Supreme Court Cases

The only state owned rivers in Oregon

Pending Navigable Rivers

Doesn't mean I agree with all of it, just don't want anyone to get into trouble for tresspassing.

Here is what we need to do: In 1985, the Montana State Legislature enacted a stream access law which states that, in general, all surface waters capable of recreational use may be so used by the public without regard to the ownership of the land underlying the waters. It also:

Classifies many of the state’s rivers and streams as being either a Class I or Class II water.

Specifies those uses which can occur regardless of the class of river or stream, and those which can only occur on each class with the permission of the adjacent landowner.

States that recreationists can use rivers and streams up to the ordinary high water line.

Defines recreational use to mean: "fishing, hunting, swimming, floating in small craft or other flotation devices, boating in motorized craft or craft propelled by oar or paddle, and other water related pleasure activities."

In addition, this law states that recreationists using a river or stream may go above the ordinary high water mark to portage around barriers under specified circumstances.

The Joint Legislative Interim Committee on Navigability of the Oregon Legislature has been briefed on this law and similar versions were proposed in the 1997 Legislature. Let's get up to speed on this and make it law.

[Pete]

These issues have been discussed at length in several threads. Check them out. Also, beware of folk's agendas ... no one takes on this fight for charity.

Public access is allowed in all states for rivers determined to be navigable under the federal test of navigability for title. Upon statehood, each state received title to the beds and banks of navigable rivers, and the public, therefore, received the right to float, wade, fish, and recreate below the normal high water mark in these rivers. State title extends only to rivers declared navigable under the federal test, determined as the capability for use in commerce, defined at the time of statehood, as outlined in The Daniel Ball (77 U.S. 557 (1870)).

Currently, only ten rivers in Oregon have been officially declared navigable for title purposes. Full recreational access is limited only to these rivers. Should the Oregon court agree with Northwest Steelheaders Association and declare the John Day River navigable, full recreational access would extend to an eleventh river.

Even Oregon’s rivers and streams that do not meet the federal test of navigability for title may be subject to a floatage easement under state law. This easement is based on the argument that, though the landowner may own the land beneath the stream, the landowner does not own the water itself. Boaters, like Shannon Carroll, are allowed to float down non-navigable rivers. Whether recreationists have a right to portage, wade, fish, or make incidental contact with the beds or banks is unclear, leading to the trespassing charge on the John Day River. Oregon’s legislature considered but did not pass a bill last session, the Oregon River Access Bill (SB 832), that would have clarified public recreation rights on the state’s waters.


Attention

Access to Girl Scout Hole Closed

NW Steelheaders

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: Pete ]

[DanS]

Check this link:
http://www.adventuresports.com/river...tes/wa-law.htm

[garyk]

Too important a topic to let it scroll off - to the top...