I/O v. OB for ocean

Master Baiter · 10-03-2001, 06:58 AM

I have been doing alot of research on seaworthy brands (Orca, Osprey, Olympic, Farallon, Parker, Grady, BW, etc.) lately. Most offer an I/O (diesel and gas) or an OB power option. I noticed that some brands like Arima only offer an OB option.

My debate Q for the day: What are the advantages/disadvantages of having an I/O or OB?

So far I have gathered that OB takes up less space; I am familar with and therefore comfortable with working on an I/O.

Does an OB have better fuel efficiency than I/O? Does an OB plane easier? What about ability to obtain/maintaining trolling speeds?

Thanks in Advance

MB

Pilar · 10-03-2001, 07:53 AM

Hey MB. Great question. I'm betting that the only thing we will agree on is that the boat is wet.

Most offshore racers run outboards. You get more speed for some reason. Like you I favor the I/O power plant. Mainly because I don't need a degree in rocket science or a box full of special tools to fix it. It's just like a car powerplant with a few differences in the cooling and exhaust systems.

Outboards are lighter, more expensive and faster. They are usually 2 stroke and suck down the fuel (and OIL). There are 4 stokes now but the biggest I know of is the Honda 130.

There are some other obvious differences, anyone?

Master Baiter · 10-03-2001, 08:06 AM

Thanks, you are a maritime "Pilar" of this community! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I am not too conerned about going super fast only fishing. I want fuel economy and ability to maintain a decent trolling speed with the main power plant. My limited experience with the salt has shown me that the ocean is rarley flat enough to get out there and go like gang busters in a small craft anyway.

My partner has a 150 OB on his 23' Trophy and seems to have plenty of both my criteria but as I said I to am more comfortable with I/O engines. I will consider the OB option if there are clear advantages though. We had a multi-purpose recreational type boat with a V-8 Merc and would not idle below about 7 MPH without constant feathering of the throttle and loaded up when trying. Is this a function of the motor or some gearing phenomenon that can be solved with foresight?

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: Master Baiter ]

Pilar · 10-03-2001, 08:13 AM

Most boats regardless of powerplant or size have problems trolling slow enough on the go fast motor. This is why you see so many trolling plates, kicker motors and guys dragging sea anchors when they troll this way.

Although it is a huge expense, I recommend the second motor for most sea going sports fishers. A trolling bracket, motor and other stuff can be had new for $1500 and used for a lot less. Now you have a way to deal with main engine failure in dicey waters like B-10. Also you can control your trolling speed exactly.

The golden rule offshore is 2 of everything. That includes motors.

Threemuch · 10-03-2001, 08:22 AM

I have wavered on this topic a number of times, but I better make up my mind soon, since I will be buying a boat!

I/Os
The good
Simple maintenance, similar to an Auto for the engine at least
Better fuel economy than two stroke non direct injected O/B
Uncluttered transom (good for fighting fish)
Less expensive total power plant cost

The bad
Takes up valuable deck space
Massive (low hp/weight or size)
I would argue that overall, less reliable

O/B
The good
Reliable
clear deck
small

The bad
Expensive
Difficult to service
stinky blue smoke

Good luck with your choice. Keep in mind, alot of high end built for purpose fishing boats (boston whaler, Grady White, Arima for example) are only built with outboards. That should tell you something.

Master Baiter · 10-03-2001, 08:34 AM

Pilar- I already have a kicker but I am not fond of the idea of sitting in the back of the boat working a tiller in sloppy swells. I prefer to be at the helm with lots of freeboard and a steering wheel to hold. Is your kicker tiller operated? How do the big charter boats do it? they don't have kickers hanging. Is the diesel power more controllable at lower RPM?

Threemuch- I know what you mean, that is how this question came up! As I was doing my research I noticed a few of the big names only had OB power, why? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]. But then there are others like Osprey, Orca, Farallon, Parker, Skipjack, etc., that offer all and they every bit as good in my opinion
. You also mentioned non-direct inject OB, what about the direct injects?

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: Master Baiter ]

fishinfool · 10-03-2001, 08:54 AM

MB
I guess I have to disagree with Pilar on this topic (never thought that would happen). I run a Suzuki 150 OB and get AWESOME range with it. Sure it takes a little bit of oil about a quart and 1/2 a trip. (50 miles by gps) but it is quiet does exhaust a little bit but not to bad. Also it isn't the fastest boat on the water but it gets me there to fish and more importantly gets me home. I do agree though I can't troll slow enough for the big nooks in the bays but buoy 10 was great this year. I owned an I/O last boat I had and in my opinion only I wold never go back to I/O after the OB. Hope this helps you out. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Threemuch · 10-03-2001, 08:55 AM

I think the boat manufacturers that you speak of that offer both, do so in order to get people into a bigger boat at a lower cost. Look at the difference between an OB powered 26 Osprey and the Volvo duoprop version. My guess is 10-12K difference in price. Does the boat manufacturer see much of that 10-12K? Some, but not much. So if they can get you into that boat for $70K rigged instead of $82K. Arimas are small boats and the price difference is less. Boston Whalers are mostly center consoles and an IO center console would be a big conflict. Gradys are east coast built boats, and for whatever reason, those guys love their outboards. Twin 200s or more on most of the kingfish boats. Gas must be cheaper out there. Grady used to make IO models, but for whatever reason, they don't now.

I think the consensus from the boat builder side is that if money is no object, every fisherman would fish outboards or true inboards.

Phil Layer · 10-03-2001, 09:05 AM

I've got a 19' fiberglass deep V with an I/O. It does pretty good on MPG. My mechanic told me to expect more maintenance with it than with an outboard. Fortunately, I can do most of the work myself because it's just a car motor.

I've also got a sled with an older Johnson outboard on it that seems to require NO maintenance. That thing is bullet proof (knocking on wood).

Anyway, the thing that amazed me was a trip I took to Homer, Alaska for a week this past summer. I can count on one hand the number of inboards I saw in that week. Even the big boats ran outboards. There must be something to it.

All in all, outboards seem to be much more high tech than car motors. But, that comes with a price in maintenance costs.

These comments come from somebody who's knowledge of engine mechanics begins and ends with which direction to turn the key.

Tilla · 10-03-2001, 09:06 AM

One point not mentioned is that I/O puts holes below the waterline [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] . When is the last time you changed the rubber boots. Another is you can lift an outboard out of the water completely. I'm neutral though.

Pilar · 10-03-2001, 09:08 AM

I use a trolling handle and sit on the engine cover. The ideal thing would be the steering link to the outdrive and a second throttle control. Then you could sit under the canvas and drive from the front.

As it is I sit next to my rod holder and get wet in the rain wherever I am in the boat (No top!).

The I/O in my boat means I have high freeboard all the way around. You can get this with outboards if they install a 'sea drive'. This is a platform to mount the engine(s) on that sticks out a couple of feet from the transom. 'Puffin' has one and he loves it.

Hookset · 10-03-2001, 09:23 AM

I asked an ex-commercial boat hand this question before. He said boats powered by an outboard is a true ocean going craft since there are no holes cut through the transom relying on rubber seals and gaskets. One of the biggest problems facing boats with inboards is salt water corrosion around the seal and over time will eventually leak. The seals and gaskets require extra maintenance. With no transom cut-out for an outboard your boat will never sink. I can see advantages and dis-advantages for both with the dis-advantages for outboards being the initial cost and maintenance. I don't find my 200 hp 2 stroke costing that much for fuel compared to a friends 350 hp V8.

Outboards are still a very expensive option. The good news for outboards are the large 4-strokes that are coming. Yamaha has a 200 or 225 hp 4 stroke and Honda has a 200 or 225 hp 4 stroke. Both motors were already displayed at a east coast boat show last spring, they should be showing up on the west coast soon. I'm sure the cost will shock you, probably over $15k.

good luck with your sreach,

Gregg

Pitch Pocket · 10-03-2001, 09:28 AM

My SeaRay (sold for the sled with jet pump) handled well and pushed the boat fine. My only complaint is the extra junk below the transom. I caught my line on the lower unit more times than I care to admit, losing a few nice chinook. Usually, it was when the fish slashed off under the boat after seeing the net and not being able to get the rod down into the water and below the outdrive quick enough.

I got so paranoid about it that I set up the kicker on the sled so that the prop only goes 3/4 of the depth of the prop below the transom.

Not sure that an outboard would solve that problem completely, but you can at least get it out of the water when you are trolling with the kicker. Of course, with the pump there is little concern.

My other comment is deck space. The motor cover takes up quite a bit of deck. My 19' open sled with tiller handle fishes like a 40 footer in terms of deck space. A 24' cabin boat has maybe 8' of deck and with the motor in the middle of it, you lose about 25% of that (unless you have one leg shorter than the other [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ). The outboard gives you a level deck that I think would be more comfortable in a rockin sea.

Thunderstruck · 10-03-2001, 05:30 PM

Master Baiter,

Isn't it true that the boats your looking at have the I/O motors mounted below the deck?. I know the Orca's do. This would eliminate the space advantage but I would have to agree with Pilar about I/O being the way to go! I have 350 TBI motor and love it. Easy to work on and plently of power.

If you can afford it the Orca is an awesone boat in both the 24' and 27' models. I have been drooling over these for a couple of years and it will definately be my next boat.(If I have any money left after my wife divorces me! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] ) I found a used 24'in WA with all the electronics and kicker for 70K (ouch!)

Go with the 7.4 liter volvo duo prop. I have been told gas is better until you get over 30' in length then diesel's are the way to go.

Thunderstruck.

Joe Schwab · 10-03-2001, 06:41 PM

Mt opinion, and it is strictly opinion is outboard all the way to 24-26 foot. With a sea drive mounting you have far more space. I owned three I/O Searays and after owning a 24 foot Duckworth Pacific Pro with 150 Yamaha I would never consider going I/O unless I went to a large enough boat to put the dang engine under the floor. 6 years in Alaska was enough to convince me of outboard reliability. I havent yet had a major problem with maintenance. Fuel economy? I did a trip with 4 people one day and was accompanied by another 24 foot whitewater with a 350 V8, 3 stage pump. Total gas for the day for me, 27 gallons. Total gas for the day for him, 67 gallons. Distance traveled, exactly the same. These EFI outboards are bulletproof if taken care of and serviced. When I owned the I/O Searay I volunteered my time at a Mercruiser Repair facility so I could afford to keep it running. Easy to maintain? Better own a set of manuals and go to Mercury service school. Keeping the engine running is only half the problem. Like somebody else said, putting a hole thru your boat and running shafts thru it compounds the problems. O/B all the way!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Snapset · 10-03-2001, 08:34 PM

Outboards faster,
I/O more fuel-efficient. This goes for all 4 strokes.
If you do go with an I/O for the salt, make sure you get the freshwater cooling. Otherwise you are looking at frequently buying new manifolds, heat exchangers, maybe even cylinder heads because of all the ionic corrosion. (High velocity rust) I have learned this the hard way. I still prefer my I/O

TW · 10-03-2001, 11:02 PM

I noticed a few people mentioning the large number of outboards in AK. One of the main reasons for that in a remote area is the ease of just removing the whole motor. Most large operations have extra outboards, and just swap them out when you have problems. This allows you to then work on the problem in a shop instead of on the boat.

Denali · 10-03-2001, 11:21 PM

My vote is for the outboard. I have a 20ft with the offshore bracket and the usable space in the stern is terrific. Do not like fishing/moving around motor boxes. Ofcourse I could not work on an I/O anymore then an outboard so that is not an issue with me. The new DFI outboards get terrific gase mileage (however they are new technology). My 200 HPDI Yamaha gets about 185 miles on 54 gallons of fuel at 3/4 throttle. Yamaha does now have available the 225 four stroke at a cost of about 17K. Honda will have a 200/225 out very soon as well. The room in the stern is what I prefer with the outboard set-up and full transom height with the bracket.

finclipped · 10-03-2001, 11:25 PM

I use a I/O for fishing in the Ocean, and given the choice I prefer an outboard. The I/0 is nice when you need to get parts(small block GM is the most common motor in the world) but more can go wrong with the motor and outdrive. The Outboard gives you a lot more space and you don't trip over the motor-cover in rough sees. Inexperienced fishers' have a very difficult time controlling their fish, especially chinook. I ahve many people loose fish because the outdrive sticks so far down. Running the rod from one side of the boat to the other is difficult and is cumbersome with the motor cover in the way.

One negative thing about the outboards is the fact they smoke and on a bumpy day, this can turn fishers into chummers.

Pilar · 10-04-2001, 08:23 AM

Good point TW. A huge advantage of the outboard is ease of removing it from the boat.

A heat exchanger system can double the life of your I/O engine. As far as maintenance goes...... How hard is it to change out zincs, oil, filter and fuel/water separators? Once a year I service the outdrive ujoints and inspect the rubber boots for cracks. The oil in the outdrive and the water pump impeller gets changed once a year too. I think some of you are confusing repairs made necessary by a lack of maintenance with regular maintenance.

Oh yeah the repair book costs $25. Seloc is the best one, IMHO.

For every 3 trips to the saltchuck or 25 hours I give up about 2 hours to maintenance. Its a fair trade. So far the only thing I've had to 'repair' is a bad condensor in the ignition. This failure cost me a halibut day. That will never happen again with the new electronic ignition. The boat has almost 400 hours on the I/O and not one major breakdown. I just changed out the sparkplugs because they were rusted.

How many of you spend any time checking your boat out in the driveway instead of at the boat ramp?

Mr. Fisherman · 10-04-2001, 02:52 PM

I do [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Phil Layer · 10-04-2001, 03:26 PM

Hey, I'm one of those sick puppies who sits in their boat in the driveway if I can't be out fishin'!

Maintenance in driveway is significantly much easier and less stressful than at the ramp. When I launch, I'm pretty sure everything is going to run fine.

WeldcraftOwner · 10-04-2001, 06:35 PM

East Coast Kingfishermen troll faster may be one reason they like the outboards. 6-7 knots same as for Tuna.

Twin outboards is the ultimate in reliability. One motor dies and you can still make it to the ramp on plane. Orcas offer remote steerage which if you hook you kicker to your mains you then don't have to worry about trolling slop. With the Sea Sport they offer a remote kicker station.

Jason S

boater · 10-05-2001, 05:53 PM

if i bought a boat strickly to use in the open water it would have twin 4 stroke outboards on it, just my useless 2 cents worth.

bigshark · 10-05-2001, 07:08 PM

TW has it right about the AK fleet of sport boats...A big plus is the ability to swap-out
with little to no downtime. In addition however, is that a lot of the Cook Inlet guys
have to launch into the surf such as it is. The other thing is that most of those boats run duals so they can get the customers back if an engine fails. However they don't come to plane with a single engine...even at full throttle with 225 hp. The hulls are a minimum 14 degree deadrise,and go up. The reason is soft ride to the halibut grounds brings repeat business while beating them up will make them look for another ride. In addition there are some mfg who believe that I/Os and aluminum hulls just are not a good combo. I don't know why. For down here, it seems like a push...but I would strongly urge you to have two powerplants in any salt
water.