Work or Prison? You decide...

[Hogmaster]

Just in case you ever get these two environments mixed up, this should make things a little bit clearer!!!

@ PRISON

you spend the majority of your time in a 10X10 cell

@ WORK

you spend the majority of your time

in an 6X6 cubicle /office

@ PRISON

you get three meals a day fully paid for

@ WORK

you get a break for one meal and

you have to pay for it

@ PRISON

you get time off for good behavior

@WORK
you get more work for

good behavior

@ PRISON

the guard locks and unlocks all the doors for you

@ WORK

you must often carry a security card

and open all the doors for yourself

@ PRISON

you can watch TV and play games

@ WORK

you could get fired for watching

TV and playing games

@ PRISON

you get your own toilet

@ WORK

you have to share the toilet with

some people who pee on the seat

@ PRISON

they allow your family and friends to visit

@ WORK

you aren't even supposed to speak

to your family

@ PRISON

all expenses are paid by the taxpayers with no work required

@ WORK

you get to pay all your expenses to go

to work, and they deduct taxes from

your salary to pay for prisoners

@ PRISON

you spend most of your life inside bars wanting to get out

@ WORK
you spend most of your time wanting

to get out and go inside bars

@ PRISON

you must deal with sadistic wardens

@ WORK

they are called managers

THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!!
Now get back to work. You're not getting paid to check ifish!

PS - DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT COMPARING PRISON TO THE MILITARY!

[Cornbread]

@prison

You can't go fishing or hunting. I'll take @work thank you very much.

[fishkisser]

Work is for people who arn't good at stealing , lieing and cheating ...

[reelbigfish72]

Originally Posted by Hogmaster

Just in case you ever get these two environments mixed up, this should make things a little bit clearer!!!

@ PRISON

you spend the majority of your time in a 10X10 cell

@ WORK

you spend the majority of your time

in an 6X6 cubicle /office
Usually 8 hours a day, then you go home and do pretty much whatever you want.

@ PRISON

you get three meals a day fully paid for

@ WORK

you get a break for one meal and

you have to pay for it

And it's whatever you happen to want or like that day and the other two meals you can eat anywhere, with anyone you want.

@ PRISON

you get time off for good behavior

@WORK
you get more work for

good behavior

@ PRISON

the guard locks and unlocks all the doors for you

And makes pretty much every other decision for you. (By the way, we prefer not to be called "guards")

@ WORK

you must often carry a security card

and open all the doors for yourself

@ PRISON

you can watch TV and play games

@ WORK

you could get fired for watching

TV and playing games

At the end of your workday and on weekends you can pretty much go anywhere or do anything you want, including watch tv and play games.

@ PRISON

you get your own toilet

That you share with at least one other convicted felon and is in full view of anyone walking by.

@ WORK

you have to share the toilet with

some people who pee on the seat

@ PRISON

they allow your family and friends to visit

A certain number of times per month and for a limited amount of time.

@ WORK

you aren't even supposed to speak

to your family

When you're not at work you can see pretty much anyone you want to.

@ PRISON

all expenses are paid by the taxpayers with no work required

In Oregon all inmates are required to work.

@ WORK

you get to pay all your expenses to go

to work, and they deduct taxes from

your salary to pay for prisoners

@ PRISON

you spend most of your life inside bars wanting to get out

@ WORK
you spend most of your time wanting

to get out and go inside bars

@ PRISON

you must deal with sadistic wardens

@ WORK

they are called managers

THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!!!!
Now get back to work. You're not getting paid to check ifish!

PS - DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT COMPARING PRISON TO THE MILITARY!

My point here is not that convicted felons don't deserve to have their freedom taken from them, they do. But to compare your life to that of an inmate is pretty silly. Prison is not fun, not a nice place and certainly far worse than your job. The small amount of freedom they get is to help keep them human because they will get out someday and be your neighbors.

[Hogmaster]

Originally Posted by reelbigfish72

My point here is not that convicted felons don't deserve to have their freedom taken from them, they do. But to compare your life to that of an inmate is pretty silly. Prison is not fun, not a nice place and certainly far worse than your job. The small amount of freedom they get is to help keep them human because they will get out someday and be your neighbors.

Oh there you go dealing with reality!

BTW, most of my employees don't get the freedoms you suggest. We work them much harder than that!

OK OK, it was supposed to be a JOKE. I didn't think anyone would take it seriously. Thank you for fairly representing the issues of the prison population. And I am certain you enjoy your freedoms outside the work environment. Something indeed, prisoners don't get while on the inside.

Sorry if it is offensive to a PRISONER!

[reelbigfish72]

I get the joke. I also feel far to many people don't understand prison, they either think it's like Disneyland or the TV show Oz. I take great pride from my work and believe very strongly in our prison system here in Oregon. Sometimes I feel I have to get on my soapbox and enlighten people. A lightheated thread like yours may not have been the best place to do that.

[HiTekRdNek]

I can appreciate the humor.


The rest of you "Lightrn Up"

[Weather or Knot]

I enjoyed the JOKE! Thanks Hogmaster. Jokes are what keep us from shooting ourselves or others and ending up in work, I mean prison.My cousin worked at the state pen for quite a while and I know that its a horrible place. But I go to work everyday. IT WAS FUNNY!

Brandon

[lor]

@PRISON
Some big dude might make you into his girlfriend.

@WORK
You might meet your wife while going many thru girlfriends.

[Dave G]

If you are in proson, you can't go fishing!

[TonTo]

Originally Posted by Dave G

If you are in proson, you can't go fishing!

Sure you can ,but you have to use a comb for a lure, a shreaded blanket string for line,and your big catch is a contraband smoke that came from Bubba's backside.

[Paddlefish]

Hmm . . . Car bashing and ID theft are sounding like better career choices all the time.

And you didn't even mention the "conjugal visit" option, which would be a definite upgrade!

Thanks, Hog. We've gotta keep smiling. Or else we . . . wouldn't be smilin'!! :smile: :smile:

[montster303]

That is too true, TonTo

[SturgeonKing50]

They do things to you in prison that we cannot and will not talk about here. Another thought. Maybe if prisons were like they should be maybe we would not have to keep building more $52,000 a year to keep an inmate locked up? Imagine that:frown:

[reelbigfish72]

So, how should they be? This is just speculation (because I don't know for sure what you think) but my guess is that how you think they should be has been proven to be inneffective in actually rehabilitating criminals or reducing recidivism.

[BridgeCatcher]

So why is there always that one person that has to take a thread that is just a light hearted joke and turn it into a "serious issue" thread and get people all riled up???

Can't a joke just be a joke anymore??

[Hogmaster]

That is a fair question, RBF72. And I know you are passionate and concerned about the topic, so let's take a walk down that road in spite of the joke intent of the thread.

I watched a Jimmy Cagney movie the other night. Sorry, I can't recall the name. But in it he played a bad guy who spends part of the movie in prison. It was made in 1939, and the story was present day at the time.

In it, there were 4 guys - 2 bunk beds on each side - in a cell that was about 8X8. There was no TV, no radio. Books were available. They got released at meal times and worked in prison shops. They were placed in solitary for disregarding the rules. Visits were monitored, no touching and certainly no conjugal visits.

Somewhere between 1939 and now that became "cruel and unusual punishment." As a professional in this field, I suspect your perspective on what is just treatment may be different than what several of those on the "outside" may feel is appropriate.

So whether it is this thread or a new one, it would be interesting to see your perspectives on:

• What is cruel and unusual (out of line)?
• How much individual dignity is deserved and needed (and how it might vary depending on the person and/or the crime)
• Is 52K really necessary to house inmates while also as you point out, reducing recividism?
• Can inmates be forced to work? If it were allowed, do you think adding time for not working and reducing time for working a possible method of motivating those imprisoned to understand the value of working.

I am sure there are many other discussion points, and it is (too) easy for many of us to be callous about a huge problem when there is little tolerance for bad dudes in the clink. Your input would be interesting!

[SturgeonKing50]

Originally Posted by Hogmaster

That is a fair question, RBF72. And I know you are passionate and concerned about the topic, so let's take a walk down that road in spite of the joke intent of the thread.

I watched a Jimmy Cagney movie the other night. Sorry, I can't recall the name. But in it he played a bad guy who spends part of the movie in prison. It was made in 1939, and the story was present day at the time.

In it, there were 4 guys - 2 bunk beds on each side - in a cell that was about 8X8. There was no TV, no radio. Books were available. They got released at meal times and worked in prison shops. They were placed in solitary for disregarding the rules. Visits were monitored, no touching and certainly no conjugal visits.

Somewhere between 1939 and now that became "cruel and unusual punishment." As a professional in this field, I suspect your perspective on what is just treatment may be different than what several of those on the "outside" may feel is appropriate.

So whether it is this thread or a new one, it would be interesting to see your perspectives on:

• What is cruel and unusual (out of line)?
• How much individual dignity is deserved and needed (and how it might vary depending on the person and/or the crime)
• Is 52K really necessary to house inmates while also as you point out, reducing recividism?
• Can inmates be forced to work? If it were allowed, do you think adding time for not working and reducing time for working a possible method of motivating those imprisoned to understand the value of working.

I am sure there are many other discussion points, and it is (too) easy for many of us to be callous about a huge problem when there is little tolerance for bad dudes in the clink. Your input would be interesting!

RBF72 This is really well writtenby Hogmaster and it is really what I was trying to say. Also I appreciated the joke for what it was. Obviously the prison system DOSEN'T WORK, PERIOD.:frown: And at $1000.00 a week for to keep a inmate in the state pen, I would like to see an accounting for this. You go to prison to be punished. Cruel and unusual punishment? These child molesters, rapists,murderer's and various low lifes need one thing.One fair trial ,one appeal, within a year and then it is time for a dirt nap.If the system was not backed up with repeated offenders maybe this would happen. What about the victims rights. What about our rights? They have more than we do.Maybe if one of these low lifes broke into your house and did some bad things to you and yours I bet you would change your tune. Callous? " BOOM BOOM"
out go the lights. Now thats callous. You had to get it started. Yes this exactly how I feel about this and If I have offended your liberal feelings I apologize in advance. Believe me, there is alot of us on the "outside" that feel exactly this way.

[wannacatchem]

Originally Posted by SturgeonKing50

Believe me, there is alot of us on the "outside" that feel exactly this way.

This is a family oriented website so I can't go into my true feelings.

However... A lot of people who are in jail don't need to be. Several of the billions spent on the WAR against drugs should be spent on treatment, turning those addicted back into useful members of society. The rest of the funds should come from the legalization of marijuana.

Violent criminals should get bread, water and a blanket....until thier appeal is turned down. then a hole in the dirt

[SturgeonKing50]

Originally Posted by wannacatchem

This is a family oriented website so I can't go into my true feelings.

However... A lot of people who are in jail don't need to be. Several of the billions spent on the WAR against drugs should be spent on treatment, turning those addicted back into useful members of society. The rest of the funds should come from the legalization of marijuana.

Violent criminals should get bread, water and a blanket....until thier appeal is turned down. then a hole in the dirt

Well said. Thanks

[Bloom]

I'm a little new to these boards, so I suppose my opinion is worth a little less than .02cts, but I feel we should have(if we don't have one already) a joke section in which jokes are posted and taken for what they are, without the usual commentary or criticizm. If someone routinely posts lame jokes, and gets little or no feedback, they'll stop posting.

There are plenty of topics that are worthy of a lively debate and I love to jump in myself now and then, but this is just a joke and I don't see that it needs disecting.If I posted a joke or two that ended up being a lengthy political discussion where people get their shorts all twisted up, I would have little incentive to post jokes and perhaps liven up someone's boring day.

Rant over, Bloom out.

[reelbigfish72]

Ok, first off I need to say I feel bad that I took Hogmaster's joke too seriously, I'm not usually "that guy". This is a topic that is important to me and even though I feel bad for sort of hijacking the thread and taking it too seriously, I'm glad to have a nice, civil discussion of the topic, I think that's a good thing.

So, I don't have a lot of time at the moment so I need to keep it short for now. I know that it feels good to know that criminals are being punished for their crimes and if locking them in a small room with nothing to do for half the day and making them break rocks the other half of the day was an effective in reducing crime or recidiivism, I'd be all for it. But the fact of the matter is that about 97% of prison inmates will return to the community and be our neighbors some day. That being said, I believe we should do what we can to make those people the best neighbors possible when they get out.
Oregon's prison system has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the country, we're doing something right. We don't coddle our inmates here (although there are even some staff who believe we do), but we don't wharehouse either. All inmates are required to work, there are many programs for the inmates to participate in and the state requires that the department show through scientific evidence that those programs work or they will not be funded and the Department will be required to implement programs that are evidence based.
The "lock 'em up and throw away the key" mentality simply does not work, unless we truly do throw away the key, they will be leaving prison at some point and should be at least given the tools to be better citizens when that day comes. And if we do, as a society, decide to just lock them away forever with nothing to look forward to but work and a small room to live in, I'll look for a new job at that point, because that will be an extremely angry bunch of felons and I'd want no part of spending my day with them.

[Hogmaster]

Well,

I keep trying to explain to folk that opening my threads are "like a box of chocolates"

[reelbigfish72]

Yes this exactly how I feel about this and If I have offended your liberal feelings I apologize in advance. Believe me, there is alot of us on the "outside" that feel exactly this way.

No apology needed and no offense taken, I truly understand why people feel that way. I don't get offended easily, I spend my workday with about 80 convicted felons, it has taught me to have fairly thick skin. It has also taught me what really works when it comes to supervising them and what gives them the best tool to become better members of society.

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, Oregon's annual per inmate cost of $24,665 made it the nation's 24th most expensive prison system to operate in 2005.

So, not quite $52,000. And I'm not sure, but I suspect that figure takes the entire Department budget and divides it by number of inmates.

[Hogmaster]

Thanks for some perspective on the issue. And even the most ardent supporter of the dirt hole theory has to admit that most prisoners do not deserve to be locked up for life.

Imagine if one of your children made three dumb mistakes in a short period. Shoplifted, then took a car on a joyride (a car they were just in even) and then got caught driving away from the scene of a burglery. No violence even, just stupid mistakes.

At the end of that series of stupid acts, they may find themselves being hosted at a graybar hilton, like let's say OCI.

How long is appropriate? What is the treatment? To RBF72's point, that person can't (nor should) be locked up forever. So what will ensure the most likely outcome being a good one?

If it really is 24 K to house an inmate, is that really a lot? The prisons are not cheap to build. The hardened criminal types have been shown to be extremely creative with regard to escape. And then to operate them costs a lot. I appreciate RBF72 and his co-workers. It can't be an easy job, someone needs to do it, and fair pay should be expected. Yes even bureaucracy is needed in any large institutional setting.

$500 to 1000 a month is unfortunate. And the best "win" we can expect is that rather than continuing to house them and grow the population, we return them as "productive" members of society. The most hardcore? We need to house them securely.

I wish inmates could build their own prisons, grow their own food and police themselves. And to an extent they do. The rest is up to us.

Keep up the good work, RBF72, and I think really many of us can use the education and resetting of our understanding of the issues.

You hijacker you!

[reelbigfish72]

[negoc8]

OK, I'll take $500 a month and promise to stay out of prison for life!

[River Ranger]

I would have to say though Hog, that if my kid did the things you mentioned I would sure want him to do some time. Sure they may be mistakes but but as long a some one is old enough to know right from wrong there is no excuse. Many repeat offenders start with small "mistakes" and it's down hill from there.

Your work comparison was priceless


RR.

[SturgeonKing50]

Originally Posted by Hogmaster

Thanks for some perspective on the issue. And even the most ardent supporter of the dirt hole theory has to admit that most prisoners do not deserve to be locked up for life.

Imagine if one of your children made three dumb mistakes in a short period. Shoplifted, then took a car on a joyride (a car they were just in even) and then got caught driving away from the scene of a burglery. No violence even, just stupid mistakes.

At the end of that series of stupid acts, they may find themselves being hosted at a graybar hilton, like let's say OCI.

How long is appropriate? What is the treatment? To RBF72's point, that person can't (nor should) be locked up forever. So what will ensure the most likely outcome being a good one?

If it really is 24 K to house an inmate, is that really a lot? The prisons are not cheap to build. The hardened criminal types have been shown to be extremely creative with regard to escape. And then to operate them costs a lot. I appreciate RBF72 and his co-workers. It can't be an easy job, someone needs to do it, and fair pay should be expected. Yes even bureaucracy is needed in any large institutional setting.

$500 to 1000 a month is unfortunate. And the best "win" we can expect is that rather than continuing to house them and grow the population, we return them as "productive" members of society. The most hardcore? We need to house them securely.

I wish inmates could build their own prisons, grow their own food and police themselves. And to an extent they do. The rest is up to us.

Keep up the good work, RBF72, and I think really many of us can use the education and resetting of our understanding of the issues.

You hijacker you! Right On!!!!!!!!!!!!