In Defense of the Current Sauvie Island System

[MarshBum]

Well, there's been a lot of hullabaloo about the way Sauvie is being run as of late. I thought someone that appreciates the current system should speak up... so I'll raise my hand and volunteer to take the beatings.

To me, the system is about as good as can be hoped for. It meets the needs of everyone that I can think of or that I've talked to.

If you just want a quick shoot with little invested because you are busy or your plans for the day fell through, there's the West Side chip draw. All men are equal.

If you want to really put some effort in and can invest a large amount of time and don't mind spending the night in your car, you have the East Side for you.

I can't see why anyone would want to change this? Is it because people that hunt the West Side want the East Side to be just like the West Side? Why? Is it because you don't have the time to put into it? Well, others do. Why not let them have their pie and you can eat yours? Why would anyone want to drive the whole system to the lowest possible denominator?

Am I in the minority on this?

Geoff

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by MarshBum

Well, there's been a lot of hullabaloo about the way Sauvie is being run as of late. I thought someone that appreciates the current system should speak up... so I'll raise my hand and volunteer to take the beatings.

To me, the system is about as good as can be hoped for. It meets the needs of everyone that I can think of or that I've talked to.

If you just want a quick shoot with little invested because you are busy or your plans for the day fell through, there's the West Side chip draw. All men are equal.

If you want to really put some effort in and can invest a large amount of time and don't mind spending the night in your car, you have the East Side for you.

I can't see why anyone would want to change this? Is it because people that hunt the West Side want the East Side to be just like the West Side? Why? Is it because you don't have the time to put into it? Well, others do. Why not let them have their pie and you can eat yours? Why would anyone want to drive the whole system to the lowest possible denominator?

Am I in the minority on this?

Geoff

Not to wear my fingers out at the keyboard tonight, I'd have to say

[lor]

Originally Posted by billc_sbio

Not to wear my fingers out at the keyboard tonight, I'd have to say

[GDuck]

Originally Posted by MarshBum

Well, there's been a lot of hullabaloo about the way Sauvie is being run as of late. I thought someone that appreciates the current system should speak up... so I'll raise my hand and volunteer to take the beatings.

To me, the system is about as good as can be hoped for. It meets the needs of everyone that I can think of or that I've talked to.

If you just want a quick shoot with little invested because you are busy or your plans for the day fell through, there's the West Side chip draw. All men are equal.

If you want to really put some effort in and can invest a large amount of time and don't mind spending the night in your car, you have the East Side for you.

I can't see why anyone would want to change this? Is it because people that hunt the West Side want the East Side to be just like the West Side? Why? Is it because you don't have the time to put into it? Well, others do. Why not let them have their pie and you can eat yours? Why would anyone want to drive the whole system to the lowest possible denominator?

Am I in the minority on this?

Geoff

This is the same reason I and others pushed USFWS to adopt the drawing system currently in use at Umatilla. Those that drove a distance didn't want to mess around and drive all that way for nothing.

I slept in my parents station wagon 30 years ago at Sauvies in the non-res line, did it for years. Nowadays I can't do that.

As some have noted, there are guys that have no commitments that will park their happy selves in line over and over to the point it is ridiculous (30 years ago they'd have a camper or trailer and lived out there, day after day), there are others that can afford the time to get there way early now and again. I am sure those are the people that will speak in defense of the current system. True you have the West side. Not everyone wants to hunt the West side.

I would think giving all an equal chance would be more fair than benefiting the few who have time to kill.

Here it goes :lurk:

G

[CombinationLicense]

I'm in - but that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I've done well in the eastside drawings this year and the youth hunting days are a super bonus for us. They're nearly always under subscribed and the boys both drew their first choice pick for every one this year.



"CL"

[jmike]

The sysetem has always worked fair for us ......that said ..wouldnt it be cool if they would plant some food plots on the west side too...:lurk:...mike

[gottafish]

I'll just add this, I use to hunt Suavies alot. like every day it was open all season long. Ive killed thousands of ducks over the years on the Island. I hardly ever put a pick up. because there kept getting to be more and more guys. I was always on the west side drawing chips out of the snake bag , then in 2004 I went from troutdale to Sauvies 14 times and didnt get to hunt. thats a lot of gas and waisted time. I hate the east side. I think people are nuts spending the night to hunt. there ducks!! am I missing something? anyway The first time I hunted the east side I has guys walking through my decoys draging there john boat over them. the next time I hunted the guys in the blind next to me thought there guys were good to 200 yards. I give up on the friggin Sauvies Island duck hunts. It really sucks the fun out of it. I wish there was just more ponds and blinds to allow people to spread out and get a blind.

[Something Good]

I think it's being run as well as it can be. West side for the slackers and east side for the die hards. There's no shortage of people willing to get in line the day before to get a good spot and it's not just people with time to kill. I'm putting my house up for sale, having a new one built, volunteer regularly for charity organizations, work 60+ hours a week and was 1st in line with reservation in hand last week. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a full plate. Some are willing to put in their time and some are not. The guy in line behind me kept getting calls from work and explained to them that he had ducks to kill and couldn't come in. Think he just had nothing else to do?

[drifting]

Sauvies is a great asset to the area and the sport. Sauvies is a prime location and receives alot of pressure because of it. I don't think there could be a better organized system for a metropolitan area. And, we still have the rest of the big C for folks who want to go elsewhere.

The folks from ODFW, and the Staters at SI are outstanding at what they do and have my gratitude.

[QH's Paw]

Originally Posted by drifting

Sauvies is a great asset to the area and the sport. Sauvies is a prime location and receives alot of pressure because of it. I don't think there could be a better organized system for a metropolitan area. And, we still have the rest of the big C for folks who want to go elsewhere.

The folks from ODFW, and the Staters ay SI are outstanding at what they do and have my gratitude.

I have made this very same statement before and I stick by it still. Jerry and Ron and, their crews too numerous to mention, do one heck of a job out there.
The fact that some people want it all like the westside and, some want it all like the eastside, is a testament to their success in choosing a varying and versatile system that is for everyone(as much as is reasonably possible).
What I have noticed the most about these kind of posts is the continual "if you ain't doing it my way you're lazy or worse". C'mon guys, come up with an intellectual statement for the arguement.
Besides my ole'man can whip your ole'man any day and we all know it.
Oh, here's the disclaimer for that last statement.......it was an attempt at humor, however ridiculous. Not gonna apologize if you didn't get it.

[dixiefisher]

Given the prime location to a metro area....it is the best that can be done in my opinion. Personally, when I first moved here, the east side was all I did. It only took a couple of seasons for me to be done with the crowds. Yes the lines stunk and only once did I sleep in the truck. but, for me it's the crowds. The big reason for me to be outdoors is to get away from the hustle. But, as I am making my way @ 2:00 AM to the LC......I do peer over at Sauvies and think about how cool Oregon is to have this place. I really don't think the situation could be done too much better.

[redfish89]

The current system works for me...I think the guy's in the check station do a great job. For the little pay, they truely love their jobs and it shows.

[doubleoxL]

I agree Marshbum. The fact that there are two side that are run differently suits various types o hunters well. I can and will admit that when the Westside changes its tune, it was quite discouraging, but that's ok, I just don't have to hunt there.

What I am worried about is those people that are currently trying to change the Eastside system as well. I believe that there is agroup of hunters out there that are pushing to make the system "equal" in their opinions.

It worries me. I just don't want things to change over there. I don't want the Eastside to become a joke like it has become over at the Westside.

[steelhead22]

Originally Posted by doubleoxL

What I am worried about is those people that are currently trying to change the Eastside system as well. I believe that there is agroup of hunters out there that are pushing to make the system "equal" in their opinions.

"Hunters" don't worry me one bit. Now, if you said that Mark Nebeker, Jerry Ronne, etc. etc. were talking about changes....then you MIGHT have something worth hearing.

Until then, it's just rumors from the knitting table to me from someone who wants to feel like they're "in the know".

[doubleoxL]

Steelie - Please, let's not go through this again.

I am not "in the know", and could care less about being "in the know". And furthermore, I am not attempting to create rumors.

I AM JUST SAYING: If we like what we have, I think we should voice it! "The squeaky wheel always gets the grease", and usually, those who are happy, aren't complaining much. I just don't think we should wait till it's too late.

The Westside system was changed because of unhappy hunters complaining. GDuck posted above and stated that he helped to change the situation up at Umatilla. I would be worried about hunters, especialy the ones who use there time complaining about systems rather than scouting for birds.

S.I. is an excellent resource that IMHO, needs no more change. I like it the way it is. I think we should all have a little foresight to imagine what the future has in store and stand up for what we enjoy.

I hope that makes sense to you all.

That's all.

[steelhead22]

Fair enough, I don't have the time to do this again anyway.

I've got to go to work.

[MarshBum]

I want to be clear here. I don't view people that hunt the Westside as lazy. There are times where a hunter just needs a quick shoot in the morning. Maybe he has a new born baby at home and wants to spend his time behind decoys rather than driving to and from the LC. Maybe he has to get to work at 10:00AM. Maybe his goose partner just got the trots.

All I'm saying is that the two sides appeal to a broad swath of hunters. Everyone can find something on the island that works for them.

What I really get tweaked about is the attitude that "hey, I want to hunt over there, but I can't because I'm not willing/able to do what it takes so let's change the rules so I don't have to change".

Geoff

[Hunt'nFish]

Forth what it's worth I like both sides the way they are. Something for everybody.

The only thing I wish for is more courtesy & respect for your fellow hunters.
Return birds, shoot at birds you KNOW are in range, and try to let your neighboring blinds kill a few too. If they're locked up, let'em come in and die. Don't just get on the call and wail on it to flair them off your neighbor. Enjoy seeing them shoot birds too. Do it and they'll return the favor as well and everybody will kill more.
And have fun!
Hunt'nFish

[Chesapeake]

Seems this "Praise" post has flipped.

While everyone is at it could someone explain the 2 Sauvies draw systems? I've often heard of the overnight camping in line with a reservation bit, but havent ever heard why?

How is it that one could have a reservation and still need to park in line all night.

The systems I'm familiar with have both a reservation draw and a non-reservation draw. Reservations are given for a percentage of the blinds, and the remaining percentage of blinds is left for the non-reservation draw. The reservation guys get first draw and then the other guys draw for the scraps. The drawing is held an hour or so before shooting light and it dont matter when you get there as long as its before the drawing starts. Reservations always get a blind, and the other guys atleast have a few blinds to draw for.

I cant imagine a better draw system. Can someone enlighten me?

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish

Forth what it's worth I like both sides the way they are. Something for everybody.

The only thing I wish for is more courtesy & respect for your fellow hunters.
Return birds, shoot at birds you KNOW are in range, and try to let your neighboring blinds kill a few too. If they're locked up, let'em come in and die. Don't just get on the call and hail on it to flair them off your neighbor. Enjoy seeing them shoot birds too. Do it and they'll return the favor as well and everybody will kill more.
And have fun!
Hunt'nFish

In fact, couldn't agree more!

[billc_sbio]

[quote=Chesapeake;1814614While everyone is at it could someone explain the 2 Sauvies draw systems? I've often heard of the overnight camping in line with a reservation bit, but havent ever heard why?

How is it that one could have a reservation and still need to park in line all night.

Can someone enlighten me?[/quote]

Yes, primarily the main reason is both Res and Non-Res lines are still 1st come, 1st served. (And of course some locations/blinds are more desireable than others)

But there are also those who enjoy the comraderie of just "hangin out" and talking Duck hunting and what not...

[Silverback]

I think the system is pretty darn good just the way it is. We put in for reservations and hunt there when we have a tag and somewhere else when we don't. Can't beat the price !!!!!!!!!!

[Chesapeake]

Originally Posted by billc_sbio

Yes, primarily the main reason is both Res and Non-Res lines are still 1st come, 1st served. (And of course some locations/blinds are more desireable than others)

But there are also those who enjoy the comraderie of just "hangin out" and talking Duck hunting and what not...

1st come, 1st served. No wonder people are complaining!

I though the comraderie and hanging out was supposed to happen in the blind, not in a line at the booth.

Keep Portland Weird comes to mind.

[MarshBum]

Originally Posted by Chesapeake

Seems this "Praise" post has flipped.

How so?

Originally Posted by Chesapeake

How is it that one could have a reservation and still need to park in line all night.

I may have a reservation that guarantees me a blind in Mudhen, but it does not guarantee me the "best" blind. I spend the night so that I have first pick of the blinds in Mudhen. If I don't want to spend the night, then I can show up right before the line opens up and starts to move, and still know I have a blind.

Geoff

[Chesapeake]

I guess I can see how some would like the abillity to improve thier chances with a bit of effort. Where in a normal draw its all up to chance.

I do think it would get old having to camp in line just to have a chance to get a good blind.

About what percentage of reservation hunters would you say generaly get in line before 4 am or so?

[Teton]

I have a mixed view.

I don't hunt at Sauvie because one does not get a guarantee from a successful draw. I will not spend half the day before and the night before a hunt day for a chance to draw a good blind in a hunt area.

Change the system slightly, to include a number on that Mudhen draw, or Footbridge draw, and I'll come back (not that anyone wants me out there anyway ).

Everything else about the management system is fine with me. In fact, considering the way habitat is managed, the good people who do it, and the tremendous number of hunters who can have a good experience (if others cooperate), I think Sauvie Island WMA is a tremendous success. IMO, there is just one flaw in the system.

[Hunt'nFish]

Originally Posted by Chesapeake

.....<snip>....I do think it would get old having to camp in line just to have a chance to get a good blind. .....<snip>

Yes, but it is at least an opportunity. Not everyone has a boat, club, or family farm to hunt.
That being said there are also a ton of places up and down the river that you can walk into and hunt. Some are better and some are not.

Why do I hunt S.I. when I have a boat?? (Good question)
I guess it's easy, and I don't have to commit a bunch of fuel to the day. Sometimes a few hours in blind with some good friends is all I & the dog require. I've made some good IFish friends out there. Birds are just a bonus.
Hunt'nFish

[lor]

Originally Posted by Teton

Change the system slightly, to include a number on that Mudhen draw, or Footbridge draw, and I'll come back (not that anyone wants me out there anyway ).

Teton, if I understand what your saying.
When a person is draw the blind number is already assigned at that time.
If thats the case, what happens if the guy doesn't show up???? Which is a pretty common case.
Seems like a potentially good blind would automatically go to someone in the non rez line.
Or you would have people waiting to see if good blind guy showed up, adding to congestioning and slowing everyone else down.

To me, current system is great, if you have a rez and want to get the best spot on the lake, you gotta put in some effort to arrive early. Not as early as non rez, but early nonetheless. I think thats somewhat more fair than a guaranteed spot at the table.

If a person wants a guaranteed spot, join a club.

[Hunt'nFish]

Yes, Chancellor you hit it right on the head as to why it's the way it is.
Hunt'nFish

[Jeremy]

I agree with the first post and like the way it is. I have never spent the night in the res or non-res line and always had a good hunt from the res or non-res line on the east side. With my schedule sometimes it just works better to drive out there and get in line knowing that i wont have to drag decoys for a couple of hours out to my setup at o'dark thirty in the morning and hope that nobody sets up next to me, if im lucky i can grab a blind from the non-res line and know that the closest guy will be at least 100 yards away and maybe even let the birds work.

Just in comparison, I hunted Fern Ridge for the first time this year. There reservation system does assign a number and you get to pick from all the blinds in the whole reservation area. i got choice #2 for my reservation date so i knew going in that i would have second pick of blinds for that day. i picked badly though and someone after me ended up with the best blind for the day. So even with knowing what blind you are going to get doesnt necessarily make it any easier to hunt but it does save you the trip if you think that there are only 4 good blinds to choose from and you know ahead of time that you are pick #5. Although SI is a little bit more predictable than Fern in most units. At fern everyone with a res that showed up for the day picks in order of there res. Then everyone in the non-res line pulls chips and gets an order to pick in of the leftover blinds. Would be hard to do with the units being in the res system like they are at SI.

[Teton]

Originally Posted by lor

Teton, if I understand what your saying.
When a person is draw the blind number is already assigned at that time.
If thats the case, what happens if the guy doesn't show up???? Which is a pretty common case.
Seems like a potentially good blind would automatically go to someone in the non rez line.

No, there is not an assigned blind (In my utopian system ). There is an assigned order of choice for each hunt unit. Then, a when a hunter is absent, the rest of the reservations move up one, leaving more non-reservation hunters with additional chances.

Just keep the current system, and add a number. Obviously, those who like the system do. I do not say you are wrong in liking it. It works for you. It just doesn't work for me. I enjoy the comraderie of hunting plenty. I just will not invest that amount of time for a chance at a good blind.

[Bill Monroe]

Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish

Yes, but it is at least an opportunity. Not everyone has a boat, club, or family farm to hunt.
That being said there are also a ton of places up and down the river that you can walk into and hunt. Some are better and some are not.

Why do I hunt S.I. when I have a boat?? (Good question)
I guess it's easy, and I don't have to commit a bunch of fuel to the day. Sometimes a few hours in blind with some good friends is all I & the dog require. I've made some good IFish friends out there. Birds are just a bonus.
Hunt'nFish

I'm in a club (of friends; not a shoot, but a hunt club), have a boat and got up early yesterday to join another friend from the non-res line...I also like Sauvie just as it is...Cannot believe those guys (and gal) stand in those shacks every shoot day with smiles on their faces.

Made a new friend in a neighboring blind yesterday, in fact...some really great people are duck hunters...It's a lot like golf (yup, I do that, too)...
You play against yourself, with friends, a combination of both or to beat someone else...But at all levels you seek simple satisfaction at having been there and made the attempt at the unknown...

[Old Guys Rule]

I can't believe all the whining on this forum. Sauvies is a great public hunting area. Live in another state for a while and come back. You will really appreciate it then.

Notrhside - open 7 days a week free roam, no restrictions or draw.

Westside - chip draw everyone has the same chance every day camping out does not help.

East side - half reservation, half sweat line If you draw a reservation you know you have a guaranteed hunt and what unit it is in. If you want to camp out it helps your odds for a better choice. Half blinds and half free roam.


Looks like a great variety of options. Life does not have gurantees - get out and hunt, explore, take chances. The glass if half full people....

[CombinationLicense]

"First come first served" really isn't as bad as it sounds if you have an eastside reservation, which aren't that hard to come by if you work at it a bit. I have a group of about 6 hunting buddies that apply for the units with blinds in every drawing period. That means that each reservation is good for 4 hunters so most of the crew gets to go when somebody draws. I drew 4 out of 7 this year and my buddies had similar luck so there were lots of opportunities to go reservation hunting. We typically show up in line an hour before it starts moving and usually have no problem getting a decent blind. Add to that 6 youth days that I take the kids on and that's a lot of SI hunting!

I don't have the time to spend the night in line so rarely do the non-reservation thing - eastside or westside. The exception is that sometimes I get the opportunity to go on an afternoon hunt and you can usually walk up and pick the blind of your choice then.

Other than that we hunt ducks elsewhere or just go find some upland birds...



"CL"

[lor]

Originally Posted by Teton

No, there is not an assigned blind (In my utopian system ). There is an assigned order of choice for each hunt unit. Then, a when a hunter is absent, the rest of the reservations move up one, leaving more non-reservation hunters with additional chances.

But Teton, your still adding a queue into the reservation systems.
If there was a big parking lot in which everyone could get out of there car and hurdle around the shack while numbers are called out in auction style, then I could see your system working.

However with the drive in environment we have now, you are gonna create some serious congestion. Remember its not just people who have reservations in the REZ line, if you are hunting with someone who has a reservation but in a different vehicle, you must also go thru the REZ line as well. Basically everybody goes thru the line and at times the REZ line is equal to or longer than the non rez line. What if the guy with the number one pick for a blind unit on the pavement all the way to the mobile home park. People in the non rez line might not get a spot until after shooting light if you had this wait to see who shows up systems for the blind units. Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Lastly, if the current system means I never have to shoot against you buddy, then lets keep the status quo. I've read your reports, if you and your gang start slumming at SI, some of us won't get birds.

[Dave Smith]

Here is an outsider's take on SA. Consider that I know nothing about it, and almost NEVER hunt there. I get an invite this year to hunt SA: the friend tells me they drew their dream spot, that always produces limits of all green- sounds like a great invite, so I go. He then tells me that to get the blind they want, they will need to spend the night in the car for 24 hours. He kindly tels me that I can just meet them in the am, but still need to be there by 5 am.
I have to wonder: why do you have to wait in line for 24 hours after you were the "lucky" one to draw the permit????????????????? Would it be that hard to just draw for blinds??????
My other SA experience (of this season) was for geese on a unit where the person drawing (my friend) was the only party allowed on the unit- what a great experience- easy limits of geese and no skybusters. No races to the spot of sleeping in the car. Is that too much to ask? If these guys who have all the time to sllep in the vehicles used the same time to scout for birds, they would be deadly in the real, baitless world.
Dave

[Teton]

Originally Posted by lor

But Teton, your still adding a queue into the reservation systems.
If there was a big parking lot in which everyone could get out of there car and hurdle around the shack while numbers are called out in auction style, then I could see your system working.

However with the drive in environment we have now, you are gonna create some serious congestion. ...Sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Lastly, if the current system means I never have to shoot against you buddy, then lets keep the status quo. I've read your reports, if you and your gang start slumming at SI, some of us won't get birds.

Yep, I'm calling for a complete redesign of the reservation system and the addition of a per-hunt unit queue. Keep the non-reservation "line" of cars so they can come up in order after all the reservation hunters have chosen their blind. If that requires a redesign of the parking lot, so be it. And yes, we can agree to disagree.

Obviously, what I think, or would like, really doesn't matter anyway. I'm just sharing my thoughts of what I think a utopian system could work like.

BTW, thanks for the complement! Last year was phenomenal for myself and the group of addicted hunters I slum around with. This year has been rewarding as well, but just a notch lower on the all-time scale. I've failed to post as much this year too.

[billc_sbio]

I liked this...

Why do I hunt S.I. when I have a boat??

I'd say this...

With all the clubs around and all the various Columbia spots available.

On most days, "somewhere" on Sauvie Is. WMA the hunting's probably better than most other places.

It might be just one location, or it might be just a unit or two.

Or it might be most of the WMA (of course on those days it'll probably be good on many private clubs/lands also)

The trick is to know the WMA well and then a certain amount of luck is involved in being able to get where you'd like to hunt.

Often there are 2-3 units that are doing fairly well, and chances are you'll be able to get onto one of them, even from the Non-Res line.

[billc_sbio]

[quote=Teton;1814817]Yep, I'm calling for a complete redesign of the reservation system and the addition of a per-hunt unit queue. Keep the non-reservation "line" of cars so they can come up in order after all the reservation hunters have chosen their blind. If that requires a redesign of the parking lot, so be it. And yes, we can agree to disagree. quote]

I'd be reluctant to ask for a "redesign" on the system they have now unless it could be demonstrated to be a significant improvement (and not just change for the sake of change).

Usually the "systems" chosen on public hunting areas are often based on the parking and access layouts, not the other way around.

What's remarkable about S.I.'s system is how many hunters they process through in such a short amount of time.

At other public areas I've been to their systems (often more complex) have hunters standing around out in the cold waiting, and take longer or cater to fewer hunters, or both!

The worst I can recall were San Luis NWR near Los Banos, CA (not the hunting, but extremely bad hunter check through procedures).

The worst in Oregon were Baskett Slough NWR and Ankeny NWR (both a total joke for both hunting opportunities, hunter reservations & assignments and now defunct!)

[Teton]

Originally Posted by billc_sbio

I'd be reluctant to ask for a "redesign" on the system they have now unless it could be demonstrated to be a significant improvement (and not just change for the sake of change).
...

What's remarkable about S.I.'s system is how many hunters they process through in such a short amount of time.
...

Yes, I'm suggesting (not that anyone cares what I think), based upon my disdain for the current reservation system (which produces a reservation that has little or no value to me), that a redesign (adding a reservation number to each hunt unit reservation) could be a significant improvement, and is not just change for the sake of change.

Logistically, how such a change to the reservation system (not the non-reservation line) would be implemented, is another story altogether.

That said, the system works fine for those who like it, and I'm not suggesting those who do like it have anything wrong with them. Yes, it does process a LOT of hunters on a great chunk of habitat which is managed well for hunting opportunity. Yes, there are some great blinds out there which produce. So, in defense of the current system, it works for the purpose it is designed for.

It just doesn't work for me because a Sauvie reservation gives only the chance at picking a good blind on a hunt day (we know each hunt unit has good ones, and poor ones). Getting such a reservation does not provide enough incentive for me to park in the reservation line midday/afternoon/evening before a hunt day and nap in my truck that night. Add a choice queue in each hunt unit, and things change dramatically, giving the reservation significantly more value in decisionmaking.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by Teton

It just doesn't work for me because a Sauvie reservation gives only the chance at picking a good blind on a hunt day (we know each hunt unit has good ones, and poor ones). Getting such a reservation does not provide enough incentive for me to park in the reservation line midday/afternoon/evening before a hunt day and nap in my truck that night. Add a choice queue in each hunt unit, and things change dramatically, giving the reservation significantly more value in decisionmaking.

Yes, I can see what you're saying and can see where you're coming from.

But, pretty much like the current Umatilla NWR system (where they assign you a "place in line number"), when you only get picked once or maybe twice for the season (if you're lucky) and you get "Pick #11", (and things have only been so-so over there) you KNOW you're NOT going to go!

Whereas before you at least perceived you might have a chance (drawing a lottery number, which of course added to the overall checkstation time) so often you took that chance.

So HOW would your plan's "assignment number" work in all of this?

[BrotherWolf]

well it could be worse like in Missouri on most of the MDC refuges....you also put in for reservation, they allow only so many reservation per day lets say 10. If there is 35 spots to hunt they throw 35 pills in a box, all the pills have # on them.... so they would have #1-#35 in the box. The people with reservations get to draw first out of the box if they show up in time if not your sol......as some one with a reservation you are guaranteed that you willl get a spot to hunt...but it might not be the best pick depending on what pill you drew it could be pill one but could be also pill 35....so now that the reservation guys have drawn there pills...they throw a bunch more pills in the box depending on how many parties they have... I have seen 100 parties drawing for 35 spots...so then they let the poor boy line start to draw pills and most of the time there were still plenty of good pills to draw...you always hoped that the reservation guys would pull out the high numberd pills because they call them in order from lowest to highest....only one person out of the party can draw a pill.....there is some other stuff that you do when ya get there but Im sure you get the point......reservation holders had to be there 2 hours before shooting time and alot of time there were only a few res holders that showed up.....all in all every one had a fair chance of getting out to hunt with out having to go get in line the day before......kinda like the west side drawing chips....but only one person per partie can draw a pill....


what if on the east side you did it like on the west, draw chips but they have the units name on it ???

[fishncliff]

Originally Posted by drifting

Sauvies is a great asset to the area and the sport. Sauvies is a prime location and receives alot of pressure because of it. I don't think there could be a better organized system for a metropolitan area. And, we still have the rest of the big C for folks who want to go elsewhere.

The folks from ODFW, and the Staters at SI are outstanding at what they do and have my gratitude.

[Teton]

Originally Posted by billc_sbio

Yes, I can see what you're saying and can see where you're coming from....

So HOW would your plan's "assignment number" work in all of this?

Not that I've given it a LOT of thought, but say your reservation is for Hunt Unit, and it has a #3 pick. That means you pick a blind third of all the reservation hunters who also have a Hunt Unit reservation. If #1 and/or #2 don't show, you pick correspondingly higher. Same goes for all the units which have numbered blinds/hunting spots. Same number of reservations are given, they just have one more piece of information (pick # for that unit).

Roam units with reservations...who knows?? Just let them out the door in the order of their number....

To get into logistics a little, how many windows are there at the Check Station, three? Out of one window, the reservations for Hunt can be chosen. Out of another, Johnson...etc, rotating through until all the blind units are assigned.

Just like it currently operates, once all the reservation hunters are assigned, then you can open the flood gates on the non-reservation line to fill all of the remainder spots in every unit.

Howz dat? I'm I crazy or what?

[MarshBum]

Originally Posted by Teton

Howz dat? I'm I crazy or what?

Certifiably!

Dave, this is a great example of what I was talking about. Not to pick on you, but the mentality of "I can't do that because it requires too much so change the rules so I can do it".

The East Side is the one place I can think of on a WMA that hard work can pay off. Why can't we have just one place, just one, where hard work is rewarded.

Is it required to be easy for everyone? Perhaps it's a sign of how society has changed...

Geoff

[The_Duck_Master]

I can see both sides but I'd prefer a numbered reservation by unit as well. Still no guarantee of a successful hunt (never is such a thing) but no more sleeping in line. Just works better for me as I come from well over an hour away.

[billc_sbio]

"Oh wow, I FINALLY got picked for Johnson! Timing's PERFECT

"Wait, what's this?!! Draw Position #4!??"

"Screw that! I'm NOT Going!"

[BrotherWolf]

Looks like they have changed a few things in MO!





"Every Member Draws" Procedure

Bob Brown, Columbia Bottom, Eagle Bluffs, Grand Pass, Marais Temps Clair, Otter Slough, and Ten Mile Pond Conservation Areas are using this procedure for the 2007-2008 waterfowl hunting season.
Reservation Parties

• Area Staff will confirm your reservation by referring to the reservation holder list Because you have a reservation, you are not required to sign in; the sign-in sheet is for “poor line” hunters only.
• As the holder of a reservation, you must present a valid photo I.D. to verify that you are a Missouri resident.
• Area Staff will use the number of “pills” equal to the number of hunting locations available (that is, if 27 locations are available, they will use pills # 1–27).
• Reservation parties draw only one pill, regardless of party size (that is, if 10 reservation holders are present, they would draw ten of the pills numbered 1–27).
• If before the drawing you decide to forfeit your reservation and draw in the poor line instead, that decision is final. That is, you may not draw a pill during the reservation draw, turn it in, and then sign the poor line sign-up sheet.

Poor Line Parties (no reservation)

• All hunters in the poor line must sign the poor line sign-in sheet. (Reservation holders and their party members do not sign the poor line sign-in sheet.)

Drawing

• Before the drawing, Area Staff will ask if all hunters present either have a reservation or have signed the poor line sign-in sheet. If ‘Yes,’ Staff will announce that “REGISTRATION IS OFFICIALLY CLOSED” and take the poor line sign-in sheet behind the counter.
• Area Staff will then count the number of signatures on the poor line sign-in sheet (e.g., 121 signatures) and check for duplicate signatures or other errors.
• Area Staff will then add the number from the poor line sign-in sheet to the number of reservation holders present (e.g., 10), then add three (to allow for error) and place the appropriate number of pills—no more, no less—in the box (e.g., 10 + 121 + 3 = 134).
• If there is enough room, Area Staff will require that all poor line party members be present at the window to draw a pill.
• If space is a problem, each poor line party member need not be present to draw a pill. Instead, one party member can draw a pill for each party member. However…
  • if the party draws a pill for an absent member and that member is not in the room by the time their number is called, then the entire party forfeits their privilege to hunt the Area through the managed hunt system that day.
• The maximum hunting party size is four (4) and each party member must be properly licensed; only properly licensed hunting party members qualify to draw a pill.
• Every poor line party must draw the appropriate number of pills. That is, if a party of four draws pill #1 on the first pull, they still must draw three more pills.
• After everyone has drawn, Area Staff will announce a “LAST CALL TO DRAW.” If everyone has drawn, Staff will announce the “DRAW IS OFFICIALLY CLOSED.”
• After the drawing is closed—not before—Area Staff will return permits to applicants who want to leave because of their position in the draw.

Post-Draw Allocation of Hunting Locations

• Beginning with the lowest number first, Area Staff will proceed to issue hunting locations.
  NOTE: All poor line hunting party members must be present at the window to select a hunting
  location.

Disabled-Accessible Hunting Blinds

• Parties registered to hunt in disabled-accessible blinds may be processed as soon as possible so as to minimize crowding and confusion.
• Party members registered to hunt a disabled-accessible blind are not eligible to participate in the “Every Member Draws” procedure unless they first forfeit their ADA blind reservation.

[activpop]

I like it the way it is. 80% Eastside, 20%Westside is usually what I do. Heck, I even pulled a 10 from the bag two weeks ago.

I never mind sleeping out on line...I can never be in bed by 8pm when I'm at home! It's like a ritual with me, a start to the adventure that takes place the next day.

OK, you want to make a change? Hot water and heated bathrooms would be my choice.

[steelhead22]

Originally Posted by Dave Smith

If these guys who have all the time to sllep in the vehicles used the same time to scout for birds, they would be deadly in the real, baitless world.
Dave

I have.

Most of the choice fields are leased to a couple of GUIDES!

Don't worry though I found a couple you....ehm, I mean THEY...missed.

[Teton]

Originally Posted by MarshBum

Certifiably!

Dave, this is a great example of what I was talking about. Not to pick on you, but the mentality of "I can't do that because it requires too much so change the rules so I can do it".

The East Side is the one place I can think of on a WMA that hard work can pay off. Why can't we have just one place, just one, where hard work is rewarded.
...

Geoff

Yes, I'm am crazy, and so am I. I see your point, which is a good one.

But seriously, staying in your car for 16 hours does not constitute hard work, does it? Scouting, walking in, braving the elements do.

IMHO, the reservation system has a fatal flaw, which keeps me away (which is just fine). My suggestion (not that it matters) is to simply eliminate that fatal flaw and produce an actual reservation.

And yes, Billc_, if my Johnson draw has a #4 on it, and the weather is good (meaning that #s 1-3 will likely show up), I'm hunting somewhere else. No skin off my back. You see, now that reservation has some value to it in decisionmaking. Under the current system, you gotta take half the previous day off, and get in line before the other guys with Johnson reservations to convert a worthless reservation into one with value. That is something I will not do.

[Crooked Hook]

Originally Posted by MarshBum

I want to be clear here. I don't view people that hunt the Westside as lazy. There are times where a hunter just needs a quick shoot in the morning. Maybe he has a new born baby at home and wants to spend his time behind decoys rather than driving to and from the LC. Maybe he has to get to work at 10:00AM. Maybe his goose partner just got the trots.

All I'm saying is that the two sides appeal to a broad swath of hunters. Everyone can find something on the island that works for them.

What I really get tweaked about is the attitude that "hey, I want to hunt over there, but I can't because I'm not willing/able to do what it takes so let's change the rules so I don't have to change".

Geoff

Geoff, I couldn't agree more with both your posts on this.
It's impossible to make everyone happy all at the same time. The system works for most and that's as good as it gets.
Kudos to all the ODFW folks and their efforts out there on Sauvie island.

[ogrejager]

Originally Posted by The_Duck_Master

I can see both sides but I'd prefer a numbered reservation by unit as well. Still no guarantee of a successful hunt (never is such a thing) but no more sleeping in line. Just works better for me as I come from well over an hour away.

My drive is 2 hours.

I think that building a parking lot and including Teton's system has some merit. It works in other areas, doesn't it?

[MarshBum]

Instead of changing the East Side, which is really what everyone is talking about (and we're really talking about one unit on the East Side, aren't we? Perhaps one specific spot...?), why don't we change the West Side?

Why not change the West Side to run in a manner consistent with Teton's suggestion? Heck, it's already geared for it with the way the road is and the radio. It would save the ODFW guys a lot of hassle if everyone came with their chip already drawn and it would eliminate double dippers.

My reasoning is, if you change the East Side to a pick number reservation, you've effectively created TWO West Sides. Now, the only thing you need to hunt is luck. No amount of effort gives you an advantage. Simple dumb luck is all you need.

I really don't like the way the West Side is run. The idea of drawing chips the in the morning makes hunting over there unattractive. Do I want to change it so it fits my needs? No, I understand it meets the needs of many people and is perfect for them.

Geoff

[Teton]

Naw, lets change the East side. That fatal flaw, you know.... And no, its not about just one hunt unit. All of the units would benefit, IMHO. As duckbrothers, we must agree to disagree, which is fine with me. Again, not that anyone cares what I think anyway. I don't hunt SI anymore.

Don't you just love a good debate?

However, I agree with you on the West side, which I tried only once. It does, however, relieve one from having to waste all that time parked in a vehicle.

[NeverGuess]

Just be glad the Westside isn't a camping scenario like it used to be. Instead of a small chance for a good blind you had no chance for a good blind without a night in the truck.

The variation of draw, free roam/posts, reservations/non-res gives you the option to make it work how you want. Maybe not for any unit you might want that day, but you can make something work. I have stayed many a long day and night in the truck for a good spot. In high school and college my Friday nights became a precious commodity.

Apply for a res.

If you have time & desire, go get in the non-res for a decent leftover.

An ordered reservation mike make a "valuable" res, but the price will be that it is harder to draw.

If you want to take your chances, go Westside.

Go on a weekday or take some kind of boat. Either will eliminate some of your competition.

There are so many angles you can take.

If you want to walk to a good spot close to town with no luck, no res and no time in line, get out your checkbook and join a club.

[High Life]

this is my first year hunting sauvies and i personally like the way it is set up.like never guess said it has pretty much everything for everyone.if you are a diehard and can spend the time in line on the eastside then you can usually get on a good spot and if you want to take chances with the chip system on the west side you can do that as well.like i said im a si rookie but i personally like the system in place

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by High Life

this is my first year hunting sauvies and i personally like the way it is set up.like never guess said it has pretty much everything for everyone.if you are a diehard and can spend the time in line on the eastside then you can usually get on a good spot and if you want to take chances with the chip system on the west side you can do that as well.like i said im a si rookie but i personally like the system in place

[Headhunter]

:lurk::lurk::lurk:

[Northwest Pest]

I agree with the current system.... I would like to see a few more blinds.