Holy War??

[MicroFish]

I'm getting really sick of the middle Eastern
dudes talkin' about their "Holy Wars". Is this supposed to scare us or somethin'. As I recall, Sadam attempted this ploy in the recent past and it didn't seem to help him
too much, did it. We will soon be coming down very, very hard on these terrorists and their cries of "Holy War" will be replaced with screams of "HOLY **** !". Can't wait [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img].

[Sliderite]

Ya gotta remember the terrorists are living in the USA and have been living here waiting for the go-ahead. Money and planning will be the clearest track we need to follow. I heard that if an Arabic terrorist changes one name(they have up to four names) or changes one letter, he may not be caught by the INS. We need better security computer programs to catch these guys. Smoke'em out !!!
Also.. This is only fanatic Islamics and not the general populace of Islam!!!!!!!! They consider this "sinful" and wrong and are hurt as well!

[sinker]

You made a very good point Slideright.
I feel truly sorry for people of Islamic, Muslim and middle eastern descent living here in this country right now.
I'd lock myself up in my house for the next month or two until all the ignorant people had cooled off some.
I used to work with a bunch of immigrants. Mainly from Russia, all over Asia and a couple from Cuba.
The stories these Asians had about what they went through to get here and before they left is just amazing. It's no wonder they wanted to come here so bad. I don't blame them one bit.
Just remember the Islamics down the road are in this country for a reason and the odds are it isn't to blow something up.

[Sliderite]

Thanks for your reply sinker! I have heard stories of second generation Arabic Islamics who have come to this country as our Forefathers have and only want to better their living. They are Not terrorists and condemn that Basterdly act that was carried out. The terrorists only use the Islamic religion as a way of using that as an excuse to do what they really want do!!!! They just hate the USA..period!!!
I would just hate to see us being hyper-sensitive to people of Middle-Eastern color!
Do I hear a yes to this?????

[Pete]

There is nothing Holy about the godless acts committed against the U.S. in the past week. Take a look at the extraordinary international images of support at the following site:Support from Around the World

[Jennie@ifish]

I found this sickeningly interesting.
An e mail from a friend of mine:

Some interesting news about the US attack.


John
-------------------------------------------------------


When a Muslim is killed in a Jihad or holy war, that person is immediately rewarded by going to heaven. Thus, justifying the
incidental death of their own peoples without remorse.
Just as long as it is
in the name of God while killing others.
The following is excerpted from the fatwa, or edict, of February 1998, issued by Osama bin Laden, whom U.S. National Security
Advisor Samuel Berger calls the "most dangerous nonstate terrorist in the
world." U.S. investigators have focused on Bin Laden as the most likely
suspect behind the coordinated bombings of the U.S. Embassy buildings
in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania in August of 1998. At least
250 people --including 12 Americans --
and injured more than 5,000 in Nairobi. Ten people died in an almost
simultaneous explosion at the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam.

"Jihad Is an Individual Duty"
by Osama bin Laden
For more than seven years, the United States has been occupying the lands of
Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors and turning its bases in the peninsula into a spearhead
through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people, using the peninsula as a staging post,even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.
...These crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger and Muslims. And ulema
[Muslim scholars] have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the
jihad [Holy War] is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries.


On that basis, and in compliance with God's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:


The ruling is to kill the Americans and their allies is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it, in order to liberate
the Al Aqsa mosque [Jerusalem] and the Holy Mosque [Mecca]... This is in accordance with
the words of Almighty God...


We call on every Muslim who believes in God and wished to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it.

[Mr. Fisherman]

Live by your words... Die by your words...

[Jennie@ifish]

We should probably keep this topic to one post or two, so I thought I'd add this here.
This is from my ISP, and I found it very interesting.
I don't really know what to think, or who is right, but it's good reading.

The grieving, following Tuesday's massive destruction of life and property,
will continue for a considerable amount of time. While one of my first
reactions was to get revenge, a overwhelming questions were, "who/how?".


A Seasurf user sent the following msg that addresses some of many questions
about revenge, foreign policy and a historical perspective some of us may
not have as we grapple with the "who?" (and how) questions of a national
response.

I submit it for your thought as one of MANY letters being circulated on the
Net and issues that merit consideration.


Don


The following was sent by Tamim Ansary, about whom someone said: When he
writes, I read. When he talks, I listen. Here is his take on Afghanistan
and the whole mess we are in.


I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean
killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity,
but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we
do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the
belly to do what must be done."


And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am
from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never
lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will
listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.


I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt
in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.
I agree that something must be done about those monsters.


But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the
government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics
who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a
plan. When you think Taliban, think *****. When you think Bin Laden, think
Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in
the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing
to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators.
They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and
clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country.


Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The
answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A
few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled
orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy, no food. There are
millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in
mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all
destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan
people have not overthrown the Taliban.


We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age.
Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make
the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses?
Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their
hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine
and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that.
New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least
get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat,
only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe
the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too
fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping
bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this
horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the
Taliban--by ****** once again the people they've been ****** all this time.


So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true
fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with
ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to
be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as
needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing
innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on
the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die
fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much
bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have
to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of
Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by?
You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and
the West.


And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants.
That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right
there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem
ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the
West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those
lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better
from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west
would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and
millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that?
Bin Laden does. Anyone else?


Tamim Ansary

[Tanner]

That is some pretty scary stuff. Sounds like the job would be better accomplished as a covert operation.

Time to give back the CIA their license to assassinate. What the hell was Carter thinking anyway? Can someone explain it to me?

[Slow Roll]

I am upset [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] , I am P.O.ed beyond anything I have ever been before. But, I also have enough patience and foresight to see that in the process of getting rid of one varmit you need to be careful of the collatoral damage. If not then we are just making for more future confrontation.

It is unfortunate/depressing to think of the amount of human life that will be wasted in the future to try and rid the world of the people who perpetrated this act.

Don't get me wrong I belive some should and will pay. I just hope the cost in blood will not be too high.

I am just tired of hearing about everyone who is running around and letting their emotions get the better of them. These decisions need to be made rationally by people who know what they are doing. Not be local vigilantes who want to make a statement.

Remember, this is not revenge we should be looking for but justice.

[Phish_on]

From what I've heard and read, Afghanistan is pretty much in Stone Age mode already.

It's interesting how I've kind of had different feelings every day since 9/11 ... today I'm thinking the best approach might be to do "whatever it takes" to remove the Taliban from power and give that bin Laden guy to the people of NYC to dispose of appropriately --- then put a huge effort into helping the people in Afghanistan rebuild their lives. Food, housing, a nice shiny mosque here and there ... show the world what kind of "devils" real Americans really are!

[FishinMission]

I have...in my work travels an individual I see who's from Afghanistan. She tells me getting a loaf of bread there would compare to winning a million in the lottery here. The people there are very, very poor. She thinks the Taliban needs to go, that they are strangling the Afghans. I've heard that the Senate is reviewing the "assasination of foreigners" policy mentioned above, and early this morning on talk radio, I heard a conversation from an ex US Military individual who believes all the operations we'll be seeing in this war against terrorism will be small "Covert" groups, and not the massive ground forces we saw in the Gulf War.....He also said that large forces would be there in support of these "covert" operations, but mainly as supply reiforcements and logistical backup. Who knows, really?? Time will tell. I think if we get Bin Laden, we ought to interrogate him to the fullest intent, and then strap him into a single seater cruise missile, and send him back to his people, with a 5,000 lb. bomb between his knees. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[PittsburghD]

Drop the assasination tag now and diffuse the bombs when we see the fuse burning? Oh yeah, and save our streams? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Robert]

The people who did this terrible crime must pay. They must be gotten rid. If we do not nail the people who did this it sets a dangerous precedence, that we are afraid to stop the bad guys.

[Buddy Page]

By the way, It was President Gerald Ford that officially banned political assasinations. Furthermore, we stopped the practice of attempting to assasinate world leaders after Kennedy was shot because our government feared that our attempts to kill Castro had been turned back on us.

This rule was put in place to keep other countries from targetting our President in retaliation for our own actions. Not to prevent us from killing people that are not political leaders.

This rule never banned the killing of terrorists or military commanders and the like in defense of our country. Bin Laden could be killed today without any change in current laws. Why do you think Clinton tried to kill him with cruise missiles and congress never complained? We even tried to kill Sadam, though nobody would say so "officially".

I think our government officials are publicly debating whether we can legally kill Bin Laden simply to throw him and his crew off the track. I guarantee we are already actively planning his death. It's much easier to kill him and his followers than to capture them.

Let's all wish the CIA and our special forces the best of luck in their upcoming operations. I hope Bin Laden and his crew die slowly and horribly!!!

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: Buddy Page ]

[Master Baiter]

If we capture olama sin baden, I think we should incarcerate him in the worst prison in America and put him in the general population not in pc. Then he will know what terrorism is really about as he gets passed around from night to night being the jailhouse *****! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] He will sing like a canary in no time flat!!!

[Crusin]

It's time to quit throwing fuel on the fire...those who are incharge will do what it takes....Just remeber what happened..talk to your kids......and for god's sake just go back to fishing....

[AngleThis]

Has anyone considered that nuclear terrorism may be just around the corner? Construction of small (handheld sized) nuclear devices is relatively simple and plans are available on the internet. Plutonium is available on the black market from Russia...guess who's buying it up?

This attack, was among other things, a test; and a successful one at that. I believe that if we do not do whatever is neccessary to KILL DEAD all well financed anti US terrorist groups in the near future, a west coast city will soon be destroyed with death counts in the millions. Because 'mutually assured destruction' does not apply to small non geograpically oriented enemies, we are in greater danger of nuclear attack right now than we ever were during the cold war.

It's going to happen sooner or later no mater what we do, but if we can 'get them before they get us', we might buy ourselves a generation or two. If that means we have to use small nuetron bombs to kill them in deep bunkers or mountain caves, beacuse no other wheaponry will do the job, that is what it means.

DC

[Vinny]

Probably not possible, but it would be nice to strengthen the good people of Afganistan and the freedon fighters. Accumulate allies, help them to eradicate Bin Laden and the Taliban. . .