Warning to those hunting public grounds near Tri Cities

raptorschild · 12-01-2007, 05:58 PM

There is a certain game warden not to be named who is out to make quite a name for himself. I've run into him 5 times total both fishing and hunting, and he has really taken a lot of my time trying to look for a ticket to write me up on. I'm always legal, and frankly i'm fine with him checking my stamp/license/gun, but when you start asking me to clear out the back of my Rig, checking old hunting coats for lead/drugs/etc..., asking me questions 3 or 4 times insinuating i'm lying, that starts to get real old real quick. He has lied to me saying he saw me shoot after hours, which absolutely was a lie.

. He'll do anything to get you to admit wrong doing, and he tries to intimidate you into it. I have no problem with authority, and as long as i'm respected, they will get the same, but this guy flat out goes overboard wasting time with a legal begal, when there are guys out there spot lighting deer out of season every night.

This guy frequents all the GMU's near Tri Cities, and up north around Mesa, WA.

BEWARE....He'll glass you from DEEP, and then sneak up on you in your blind and interupt your hunt for 20 minutes during peak shooting/flying times.

The Guy needs to realize there is more to his job then hounding the good guys.

I'm thinking about reporting him, but not sure what that would accomplish.

Anyone have similar stories/houndings, or have any suggestions wether to report or not.

Gun Rod Bow · 12-01-2007, 06:47 PM

99% of my experience with Gamies has been good.

1% was really bad. A brand new transplant from Arizona that was so overboard, that after he and I had a heated exchange, one of the other officers he worked with (who I knew just from seeing each other around) who had witnessed our exchange, called me a week later and asked me to make a formal complaint to his supervisor.

You may consider it if you think it is over the top.

Ildor · 12-01-2007, 06:52 PM

An officer has to have probable cause or the operators permission to search a vehicle. Without one of those two things any search of your vehicle is an illegal search. If he/she asks you if they can search your vehicle you have the right to deny the officer access without consequence. Now the fact that you were hunting and were also armed may ad a wrinkle to that, I don't know. I would ask an attorney or better yet I would contact the department he is with and lodge a "beef". Have the number of times it occurred and the times, dates and location of the incidents available if you can.

Rainman · 12-01-2007, 07:15 PM

Report him to the appropriate authorities. He will continue to go overboard until reined in by his supervisor. He will keep doing this until enough complaints are registered. Once enough people complain, then the system HAS to react. You may or may not be satisfied with the result, but the system will move on this.
Oh yeh, and if you mention the 'L' word (lawyer) then you most assuredly will get results.

nootka · 12-01-2007, 07:17 PM

Dear raptor,
This is not professional behavior. You should report this bad cop now.

Tar Heel · 12-01-2007, 07:53 PM

I agree, that this is reportable. Wardens and lawful hutners are the strongest alliance there is against illegal poaching, anf game rule violators. I doesn't do much to strengthen this alliance w/ this type of overboard distrust and intrusiveness.
I did have a guy ask if he could hunt w/ me and my dad once, and he did so for an hr. b4 bringing out the badge. He was on the lookout for diver hunters during the drought of the 80's when Red Heads and Can's were closed. Even in case, we all sort of chuckeled, as we suspected as much all along, he knew we knew, ....... Never did decoy a Can that day.....

BornToFish360 · 12-01-2007, 08:05 PM

You basically need to just contact his department talk to his cheif. Take his badge number.. Let his cheif know what he is doing and what all he is try to accuse you of with out good reason. All so checking vehicles with out permit or good reason. That should help. I have a warden by were i hunt and he does pretty much the same thing. Well he did til me my dad and about 4 of his buddies went down to the station to talk to the sup. in person....Good luck

Btf360

Don Becker · 12-01-2007, 08:43 PM

'Know a lawyer or a police officer that would like to go hunting with you? How, sweet would that be!

Don

BlacktailBowhunter · 12-01-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raptorschild

There is a certain game warden not to be named who is out to make quite a name for himself. I've run into him 5 times total both fishing and hunting, and he has really taken a lot of my time trying to look for a ticket to write me up on. I'm always legal, and frankly i'm fine with him checking my stamp/license/gun, but when you start asking me to clear out the back of my Rig, checking old hunting coats for lead/drugs/etc..., asking me questions 3 or 4 times insinuating i'm lying, that starts to get real old real quick. He has lied to me saying he saw me shoot after hours, which absolutely was a lie.

. He'll do anything to get you to admit wrong doing, and he tries to intimidate you into it. I have no problem with authority, and as long as i'm respected, they will get the same, but this guy flat out goes overboard wasting time with a legal begal, when there are guys out there spot lighting deer out of season every night.

This guy frequents all the GMU's near Tri Cities, and up north around Mesa, WA.

BEWARE....He'll glass you from DEEP, and then sneak up on you in your blind and interupt your hunt for 20 minutes during peak shooting/flying times.

The Guy needs to realize there is more to his job then hounding the good guys.

I'm thinking about reporting him, but not sure what that would accomplish.

Anyone have similar stories/houndings, or have any suggestions wether to report or not.

I have plenty of stories. In years past, I got pulled over while riding my Harley on a regular basis, but I won't go into that. That's another lifestyle and this is hunting. Tri-cities is notorious for having badge heavy law enforcement. They don't like bikers, but we have some new legislation on our side in WA, so hopefully it will get better.

Start asking for a warrant, but before that, get a pen and paper and write down in front of him/her their name, all of his/her questions, and all of your answers. Definately explain to the officer what you are doing and why you are doing it. Documentation is key, especially if you end up having a profiling case on your hands. When they see you are friendly and will be sticking up for your self and are not a push over, they tend to do one of two things, get aggrivated and act like a control freak or just leave you alone. Either way, document the nature of the stop. You really only have to give basic info and don't have to answer any questions, period. Make sure they feel in control. That is in their training. They try and maintain control at all times, that is why most people think they are being mean, when in fact it is just a way of getting info through intimidation, and it works most of the time. I just smile at'em and keep my mouth shut.

Know your rights and exercise them. My License, insurance, and registration is all they get from me. When they start asking questions, I tell them I appreciate they have a job to do, but I have nothing to say, I want my paper work back (put your hand out for it) and they have to let you go. By the way, make sure and ask them if you are free to go and when they say Yes, GO. If they try and ask another question don't answer it, because if you do, you are detained again, but they have to break contact, which is a measure of feet, I think 50 before they try and ask once telling you it is okay to leave.

Badge heavy jerks give the nice ones a bad name. It is amazing how people are such push overs and spill their guts. Exercise your rights. If you don't know them, learn them. If you don't know where to learn them, I know an attorney that is very reasonable. This is pretty much basic constitutional rights material here. There are former law enforcement officers on here, but I don't know if they'll help you out on this one.

Dan360 · 12-01-2007, 11:38 PM

Realize that Department of Fish and Game officers are commissioned state police officers with all rights of a police officer. Also remember that they are state employees. The state of Washington hates lawsuits and is really good at losing them. Look no further than our dear governor, who has a history of losing lots of money due to lawsuits. If you document and remain respectful yet assertive, you'll be fine for the most part.

TubeFly · 12-02-2007, 07:41 AM

Mentioning the term "lawyer" to a cop in this type of situation is like telling your friend on the playground that your dad can beat up his dad.

Probably cause and search warrant are not the only way a LE officer can search a vehicle, missing the biggest one here, the "mobile exception rule", also related similarly to exigent circumstances, and since you are hunting and the vehicle is your mode of transportation guess what is subject to search for illegal shells, bag limit etc. and if you could hide a shotgun shell in it, it pretty much gets them into any part of the rig.

Best advice would be to ask him if you have offended him based on his behavior. Hopefully he will ask why you are asking......

If he continues being rude make a complaint after requesting his business card and the name and rank of his supervisor.

There is a huge difference between being in control of a situation and being rude. One is necessary and important for him going home safe and the other is not.

The worst LE contact I ever had was with a game cop, ran right over all my decoys with the jet pump and then got ****** when I told him I wanted to see id (they were not in uniform or displaying a badge). They didn't like having to take off the Columbia quad parkas in the pouring rain and boy did I pay for it. They went through everything in my boat and every single shell as my dekes floated down stream from having the anchor ropes chopped off by their pump.

If it is warranted make the complaint, leave the lawyer comment alone, it is feable.

okie man · 12-02-2007, 08:47 AM

there is a warden in kansas that acts like the one you mention, he'll stop us 2 and 3 times a day check all our paper work look at our birds,check our guns and generaly waste our time. we have never in 15 years had one violation and now he has his son in law working with him. story is that he was shot by poachers and really has a beef with hunters now. we've reported him and all that to no avail. dot your i's and cross your t's or look for somewere else to hunt!

fishncliff · 12-02-2007, 11:11 AM

I would report him to his boss.
Up north in Skagit area we had a warden that was a real jerk. We wrote him up for doing similar things and he has to have a partner with him when he patrols now.
Haven't had a problem since.

Duckwheat · 12-02-2007, 11:59 AM

I had a friend in Colorado who became a Game Cop. He was taught any contact with the public there is a ticketable offense. There were some of his buddies that even wrote speeding tickets.

I don't care to talk to them any longer than I have to. I anwer questions minimally, and I do not try to extend the conversation. It has worked for me since my youthful days and have continued in to old age.

I have heard of someone here in Idaho getting ticketed on CJ Strike fishing with his Dad (old Guy). They were in a big old jet boat and had left some shotgun shells in the boat from a chukar hunt along the Snake. There was not a gun in the boat, but he had lead shot. Got a ticket for lead shot in a waterfowl area. Took it to court and lost. They asked if they could come aboard and he let them.

Three years ago I got asked as I was loading the boat after duck hunting if they could look in my Suburban. I answered no. No explaination. They just looked at me. I got my stuff together and left.

They depend on those of us doing things the right way to turn in the guys that don't. Washington over achiever needs to learn that valuable lesson.

DW

Ildor · 12-02-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TubeFly

Mentioning the term "lawyer" to a cop in this type of situation is like telling your friend on the playground that your dad can beat up his dad.

Probably cause and search warrant are not the only way a LE officer can search a vehicle, missing the biggest one here, the "mobile exception rule", also related similarly to exigent circumstances, and since you are hunting and the vehicle is your mode of transportation guess what is subject to search for illegal shells, bag limit etc. and if you could hide a shotgun shell in it, it pretty much gets them into any part of the rig.

Best advice would be to ask him if you have offended him based on his behavior. Hopefully he will ask why you are asking......

If he continues being rude make a complaint after requesting his business card and the name and rank of his supervisor.

There is a huge difference between being in control of a situation and being rude. One is necessary and important for him going home safe and the other is not.

The worst LE contact I ever had was with a game cop, ran right over all my decoys with the jet pump and then got ****** when I told him I wanted to see id (they were not in uniform or displaying a badge). They didn't like having to take off the Columbia quad parkas in the pouring rain and boy did I pay for it. They went through everything in my boat and every single shell as my dekes floated down stream from having the anchor ropes chopped off by their pump.

If it is warranted make the complaint, leave the lawyer comment alone, it is feable.

All the mobile exception rule does is allow a law enforcement officer to search a vehicle without a search warrent. What element has to be present for the mobile exception rule to be applicable? Answer: Probable Cause. Exigent Circumstances is defined as Emergency Conditions. For exigent circumstances to exist there must be immediate risk of physical harm to an officer or other person, risk of destruction of relevant evidence or the escape of a suspect. Only if one or more of these elements is present can an officer execute a warrentless search and/or without the consent of the vehicles operator. I would do exactly what Duckwheat did. I'd thank the officer politely for what he does and kindly tell him no.

ogrejager · 12-02-2007, 01:45 PM

"I'm sorry, sir, but I don't consent to any searches--I like my constitutional rights."

Chad S. · 12-02-2007, 02:49 PM

Where in Tri Cities were you hunting? You need to contact Captain Rich Mann @(509) 575-2740. He is the WDFW officer in charge in region 3, which is kittitas, yakima,franklin, and benton county. Richard is very easy going, and easy to talk with. If you prefer to talk in person, his office is in Yakima off Nob Hill Road. Trust me, Richard wouldn't wan't any of his fellow officers acting in this nature!

Lilcorky · 12-02-2007, 04:39 PM

Raptorschild I would say this year 75% of the Gamies I have had contact with left me with the impression I had done something wrong even though I hadn't. Sounds like a familiar tactic to me to grill you till you weep. Ildsor I was told when I guestioned the officer about probable cause thing while he dug around under my boat bow that the fact that I was engaged in fishing gave him probable cause to search without permission. I have also heard many people say they are getting tired of the grilling they take anymore when in the field and checked by a officer. Maybe it's in their training I don't know. Just know I grimmace when I have to talk to one.

Capin' Dan · 12-02-2007, 04:40 PM

Federal or state?

roadsend · 12-02-2007, 05:24 PM

My experience with the gamies runs contrary to others on this thread.
I have been contacted several times each year on the water or at the dock by several different OSP and WDF folks. The only time I have ever ran into a hot dog was almost twenty years ago. I ran into this WDF guy twice and haven't seen him since.
I have heard a few horror stories about a WDF guy across the river but have not run into him yet.
The gamies I personally have been seeing on or near the CR have been gentlemen. I feel comfortable talking to them and they have in no way been a hindrance to my enjoyment of fishing or crabbing.

bigjake_888 · 12-02-2007, 06:34 PM

My line when an officer asks to see anything of mine past my license is, " I would prefer not to, do I have a choice?" I like it better than saying no because it is not confrontational. It is just stating what I want to do.

Two things happen here, they either say no you don't and search your stuff or they say something else and ask you the question again. Usually it takes two times to say, "I would prefer not to." That they get the picture. Nice guys aside, I try to follow the rules, but sometimes I don't know them all. In the end when a game warden or state officer is checking me out, I think his goal is to write tickets. Mine is to not get one. Is this wrong?

I had a guy ask if he could search my rifle. I set it down on a tree and said I would prefer that you didn't do I have a choice? He said no and proceeded to check it out. If that is the case I wonder why they ask?

I have had some exceptions. The guys that check you out a Krumbo are really cool. As long as you are following the rules they quit being cops after they check you out and tell you what everyone else is doing and what is working and what is not. Nice guys over there.

gotZem · 12-03-2007, 03:39 AM

Yeah, have a similar "problem"- kinda! I hunt geese on public land owned by the WDFW. A Fed and his buddys hunt the property surrounding that area. The geese come over us nice and low- sometimes- and we get a passby shot. We are sure not to skybust. Good shots only. The deal is that we get the "leftovers" after they scare the geese off with the "highschool band" calling that they do. That makes them mad that we get to shoot at the same geese they pay $1000 a gun to hunt! Truth is, we are legal and they cant do anything about it- yet! I'm sure they will find a way to "push" us out. We sometimes have to go onto their property to retrieve the geese we shoot. I do not take my gun in there- only my dog. Guess it's a fine line of "tresspassing vs. retrieving your game" here that is the real problem. We try and get out asap but everyone knows where the term "wild goose chase" comes from. Sometimes they dont cooperate! We are looking for a new spot just to avoid any problem but don't like being pushed out of public land that we have a right to hunt! We are legal and they know it. We've done this for three or four years now and would rather just "move on" rather than have any problems with the feds. Sucks!

gotZem!!!

leadeyedbugger · 12-03-2007, 07:10 AM

I've heard about these sucky stories, i cross my fingers that i don't run into it. Thus far i have never had anyone remotely rude or anything happen when checked. Everyone has been nice, polite, conversationable etc. No problems in central oregon so far.

gottafish · 12-03-2007, 07:35 AM

Well look at the bright side Your leagel and he more than likely gets lot that arent. One big problem that could be going on here. There are lots of Anti hunting HSUS/peta people getting into the game warden spots and the department of wildlife. this may or may not be the case here.

RU1234 · 12-03-2007, 08:07 AM

One thing to consider here is who the officers sometimes catch. There has been several posts lately of poachers getting caught and everyone chimes in with the typical "hang them" or "throw the book at them." For all we know the officers caught some of these people on consent searches when they didn't have probable cause right at the moment.

These officers are humans just like you and me and each has his or her own personality that won't be pleasing to everyone. I'm sure 99% of them are fine and I appreciate the fact that they are enforcing (sometimes agressively) wildlife regulations designed to protect our hunting future.

uhmw · 12-03-2007, 08:11 AM

A Heavy set fella on a quad stoped me on my mt bike on the lower john day- rude from the moment he walked up to me. he made me empty my pack and cut the nylon zip ties holding my gun to my bike in order to check to see if I had a plug in my shot gun(I was just riding down the trail). I explained that I had no more zip tyes to carry my shot gun on my bike to pedel out about 9 miles back to my rig . He said that was my problem and cut them any way checked me for every thing under the sun couldnt find any violations then left and said have a nice day-

coyote243 · 12-03-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU1234

One thing to consider here is who the officers sometimes catch. There has been several posts lately of poachers getting caught and everyone chimes in with the typical "hang them" or "throw the book at them." For all we know the officers caught some of these people on consent searches when they didn't have probable cause right at the moment.

These officers are humans just like you and me and each has his or her own personality that won't be pleasing to everyone. I'm sure 99% of them are fine and I appreciate the fact that they are enforcing (sometimes agressively) wildlife regulations designed to protect our hunting future.

I think so to!

the law makes it hard for the good guys to do the right thing, bad guys have all the rights. I would rather have a agressive cop than a passive, working for me. he might be rude and might be mean but look at the big pictue and suck it up. i like a pit bull cop, he gets the job done! if they were all like that, out trying! we would be sitting alot better.

TubeFly · 12-03-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU1234

One thing to consider here is who the officers sometimes catch. There has been several posts lately of poachers getting caught and everyone chimes in with the typical "hang them" or "throw the book at them." For all we know the officers caught some of these people on consent searches when they didn't have probable cause right at the moment.

These officers are humans just like you and me and each has his or her own personality that won't be pleasing to everyone. I'm sure 99% of them are fine and I appreciate the fact that they are enforcing (sometimes agressively) wildlife regulations designed to protect our hunting future.

Nice shout out RU1234. I agree with this statement and from the majority of the posts I have seen I think most here are pro LE just don't like the extra caffeinated ones. Service with a smile baby.........

now license and registration meow.......

Oh.... and no I'm not 12-34 just 12-60.

LiveLarge · 12-03-2007, 05:52 PM

I always go out of my way to be sure I am not breaking any laws. If I am doing something that even seems suspicious, I will go way out of my way to prove innocence. I am reminded of a time when a buddy and I decided to meet at a school near his house to go ice fishing at Clark Canyon Reservoir
in Montana. We thought this was a good idea because his dad was a very light sleeper, and my truck was quite noisy. I was sitting there at 4:30am and found myself quickly surrounded by four cruisers. I didn't know the school was vandalized the night before. I let them look over everything and got some pretty weird looks when they saw the power ice auger. They must have had a deprived childhood.

I had to explain why I would need a post hole digger to go fishing.

They were a little nervous because I had a full box of 100 .44 mag. rounds in the front seat.

In the end they let me go, no one was shot, and I still got on the ice before daylight.

Be honest and cooperative and any good enforcement officer will return the favor. No officer has a license to treat you like crap though. In your position, I would have done as you did and then report him. I have been lucky I guess when I have delt with fish and game officers.