WHAT SHOULD BE DONE NOW ?!?

Prayers for directly hit families, and our country. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] ...

[img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] I agree with those here and some very influential people interviewed on national TV today that those responsible in any way (likely Bin Laden's army and his hosts in Tohola/Taliban in Afganistan) should be taken out; whatever that takes. Get it done this time, as we almost did in Iraq in '91; but don't stop short of the terrorist leaders as we did Hussein - go ALL the way this time. ...

Better preperation is badly needed everywhere. Don't wait until after something like this to put bulletproof locking doors on airline flight crew's cabins. Pre-think out every possible scenario, targets of significants and any way they could be attacked, and spend the dollars to get them protected before they are hit! This is something that will be here as long as less fortunate countries carry hate and deadly resolve for vengence; yet enough money to carry on terrorism (much longer than any of our lifetimes and likely children's lifetimes). Of course that encompasses most of the Middle East, but other places as well. This country needs to tighten it's belts a bit of luxuries and spend it on security! The opposite of what Bush and the Rep.s did by lowering the U.S. budget capability (leaving us very vulnerable), by giving billions of dollars of tax money back to the upper echelon of the wealthy. Someone in a high place of influence needs to tell those ultra greedy people that they won't much enjoy spending their huge wealth among ashes and poisons; and resulting ruined economies!!! Now they need to raise taxes again to build the military and enact massive efforts against terrorism; progressively taxed, or the countries already sagging economy goes down the toilet. If Bush is a good President he will get after what has to be done, now - massively and comprehensively!

RT

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: RT ]

[fishbait]

This is a terrable situtation, and my heart goes out to all those who were afected.

The two questions I have is:
1. Where was our so called intellegance. What about the 3 week old report of a "major strike" against the USA. We spend Billions for/on intellegance, were they all sleeping.
2. How were 4 planes hijacked all within an hour or so. What happened to airport security. Why wernt any alerts issued when the planes left their flight paths for 30 + minutes. Who was minding the store.

RT, I don't necessarly agree on spending more, what I would like to see is more results from the Billions that we are spending.

Unfortunately many innocent people will suffer because of our complaceancy(sp) On another point I agree with RT. if and when we find the people responsable for this their should be no trace of their existance left. We must go all the way.

The world and our world will never be the same...............

[Deepslayer]

I definitely agree that the perpertrators and any country sheltering them should be wiped from the face of the earth. I also think the government should have let the security agencies do their job without interferring and basically tying their hands.

I am not rich or even upper middle class, but there is no such thing as a progressive tax. It is a repressive tax. There is no need to start a class war. There are already enough wars out there.

We already spend billions and the people spending it need to be held accountable. Any waste should be treated as a crime like embezzelment.

I am afraid that the government will use this situation to take away even more of our rights! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I was in the classroom today with our kids, who by chance may even belong to some of you.

As I was explaining the magnitude of today's events and watching the news in my room with my students, a number of things came to mind:

#1 If indeed the World Trade Center buildings were both full, the loss of life in those two buildings alone could potentially be as high as our losses in the Vietnam or Korean conflicts.

#2 Most people have no clue as to why we are the target of terrorist attacks. They don't understand the connection between terrorism against U.S. citizens and our vested interest in the nation Israel. I know that sounds extremely simplistic, but basically that is where it all begins.

#3 The financial markets. Oh how this scares me. When the market opens in two days, what will happen? Wholesale panicking and sell-offs? Will we see a market crash? Our economy is so fickle and swings on the whims and moods of our consumers. And need I say that commercial air travel is a HUGE portion of our nation's economy.

#4 Our way of life will be totally impacted for the rest of our lives. In the very least, the way we travel will now be radically different.

Today is history. I told my students that their kids and grandkids will read about this day and its' lasting effects when they are someday in school. I know it is easy to simply focus on retaliation at this point, but in the bigger picture, today changes everything of Americans.

[rob allen]

We need to respond out of the demand of justice NOT out of anger!!!

When the time comes for us to retaliate our strikes must be swift, definitive and result in a permanent solution.
Here is what I mean by that. Say it turns out that Bin Laden is to blame. In that case The government of Afganastan needs to turn him over to us and never again hide another terrorist or we need to take over the government of that country by millitary force and eliminate it's current government and ensure that the future government will be co-operative with our own. Same thing if it turns out to be Huseein in Iraq.
It is also time that US arms manufacturers stop selling millitary hardware outside the United states and we should encourage other governments to do the same.

No air strikes or cruise missle attacks against targets in these countries we need the government harboring these evil people not only to give up their terrorists but thoes governments need to not exsist any longer! That means marines on the ground taking control out of the hands of these evil men! Not because we are angry but because it's the right thing to do to make certain that the world is a safe place to live

Dave, you are right about the Israeli factor. But I will add what I feel in addition to that after what I saw today. ...

I have read some literature on some of the reasons the Muslims and other Arabic people's hate America. Their basis does not make enough sense; nor does their phony takes on religion. How could these idiots be so stinkin dumb and hateful? To the point of being willing to die to kill several of us? Another besides the Israel thing that comes to my mind is that they are dumb enough to live on sand! What does that say for them?!? They phucking live on sand and wallow around chanting hatred! The smarter ones, who are still dumb and evil, have enough oil money to carry out such things as happened today. Previous to today I was of the mindset that the minority in power and a minority of fanatics over there were the hardcore American haters; but after watching film of all those Palistinians dancing happily in their streets I now think most of them are crazy in addition to ever hateful! Even the women were out dancing around making their happy faced tongues flutter like ugly turkey sounds they were so giddy happy. Somehow I don't think this is right to feel, but at this time tonight I feel the best thing would be to go ahead a get the nukes out all over the hottest and most hate filled areas of the Middle East, and as was mentioned by a couple posters "turn them into glass"; or just ashes in the sand! I'm sorry I have been driven to feel that way.

RT

[Fountainhead]

I like trackin down the perps and destroying them and any nation that harbors them. Also spending more on inteligence and security. I think we could learn from the isrealis on some of that.
I can't help but wonder, as I have before, in creating a nation for the Jews, did we not diplace Palestinians, like throw them off their land? Have isrealis, with our help, expanded into further Palestinian lands since the creation of the Jewish state? In no way do I want to appear as (or us to appear as) negotiating because of terrorism. As a matter of fact after today screw whatever the hell they want. But just perhaps somewhere during or after the creation of Isreal we should have done some things differently.
Water under the bridge now I imagine. From the looks of the palestinian children dancing in the street today there will be more Bin Ladens is all.

[First Bite]

Please pray for all the families that lost loved ones in this tragic incident.

In response to what should be done now. For starters, scrap the SDI (space defense initiative) and divert a major portion of that money to counter intelligence and anti-terrorism training. These terrorists groups must be stopped and the United States is the one country in the world with capabilities to do the most harm to these extremists.
Mark

[Timber Man]

It's a sad day [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] We need to seek and destroy!!!!!

The sad thing is if we do women and children will be takin out but thats the choice we need to make!!!!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Our prayers go out to all the family's of the victoms of this terrible tragity...My God be with you all in your time of sorrow!!!

TM [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Fishhead]

If these scum had bombed Isreal the country of Afgafastan would no longer exsist, they would have blown it off the map. It would have happened quik and we would be done with them. Case closed , end of story. My prayers go out to those who were inocent victims. The GIANT is awake..................Fishhead Vic [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[Timber Man]

Israel will never be concord again it all in Revelations in the bible!!!! Also fighting in the mid-east is in revelations as part of the last days..TM [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Crusin]

Maybe it is time to just nuke em and shoot em in the dark, I felt that way after several friends were killed in the Beruit bombings,guys who had survived nam just to get wasted by some fanatic, but as a nation I believe our mentality and compassion goes beyond that.Our politicians helped create what happened yesterday, instead of cleaning up our own back yard, we just had to go out and clean up the neigborhood, bound to **** someone off when you tell them they have been doing everything wrong for thousands of years and that our way is the only way, these people have shown for many years they will do anything to defend their beliefs, our way of life in america has no meaning to them ( except running the 7-11 and cheap motels ) as usual here in the US it takes a horror of this magnatude to wake us all up and realize we are not isolated from the pain in the world. If the United States is going to police the world then we need to be willing to go to any extrems to bust these people and anyone who shelters them as soon as the crime is done..Where ever they may be no matter how long it takes. It's to late for minding our own buisness now, now we have to pick up that big stick and use it..
hope I didn't **** anyone off...just my thoughts on this tragity....

[SailCat]

The tragedy in New York and Washington, D.C. effected me profoundly. It surprised me that I was so consumed by the attack, that our own passenger airliners would be used as weapons against us. I was unable to work for several hours yesterday.

The leaders of our country remind us, though, that the purpose of terrorism is to panic the nation and that it's imperitive for all of us get on with our lives and fulfill our daily responsibilities, and though I work for myself and could skip a day, work I shall.

Although the perpetrators of this act of ultimate cowadice have not yet been identified, Usama Bin Laden announced to his followers some time ago, "It is a Muslim's duty to kill Americans."

I believe that makes this fella a prime suspect.

My friends and family are a little more precious today.

~Michael

[Kevin M. Kelly]

On Monday morning, the day before this started, my wife was in the Pentagon Bookstore, she called and is OK, but for the past day I have been very jumpy. Four years ago, she worked in the Pentagon, on the opposite side of the building from the point of impact.

RT and others who believe that breaking out the nukes is the way to go, I must disagree with you.

I have been in the position of having "control" of 16 Poseidon missiles as the Weapons Officer on USS Tecumseh (SSBN 628) (missile submarine). I was the last man in the entire launch chain that could have either stopped the launch or actually fired the missile.

If we respond in this manner, we have sunk to the level of our enemies. The descruction caused by one...ONE... warhead is so vast that there is no chance that we could limit the damage to those who are responsible. At that point, when we have killed many men women and children who had nothing to do with this act, what have we become? What hatred have we generated in the next generations?

I have no problems with putting the crosshairs on who ever Masterminded this. Infact I would consider it an honor to be able to pull the trigger, but not with a NUKE.

My prayers go to those who were injured or killed, especially those who ran toward the areas to help. For those who will be going to help now, your work is highly under appreciated until you are needed. Good luck and stay safe.

[Pilar]

I did not vote for President Bush. Having said that, he earned a measure of respect from me with his speech on disaster eve with the following statement.

'We will not distinguish between the terrorists and those that harbor them.'

Forgive me for paraphrasing, but that is the jist of it. If you give support to terrorists living in your country then you are on notice. Rogue nations like Libya, the Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan and others can expect deliveries of high technology to begin shortly. Unfortunately for them these deliveries will be followed by explosions, death and destruction.

We have no shortage of technology. Where we as a people often fall short is the will to use it. Nothing unites Americans like this tragedy will. The only deterrent to terrorism is swift and complete retaliation. There are bombs (submarine launched cruise missiles?) falling on the Taliban in Kabul, Afghanistan as we speak. The really interesting thing is the news blackout about it, the govenment denials and the lack of news from that area in general.

This country was built by master craftsmen and wordsmiths like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. Built to last. Common folk fought oppression and gave their lives for the concept and reality of freedom. It will take more than a few crazed suicidal religious fanatics to tear it down.

Have faith and God Bless America

[NEUTRON]

Good take John. I ask all not to stereotype people by race, religion or otherwise. It is this same type of ignorance and intollerance that makes lunatics like Bin Laden sucessfull
in their evil deeds. Let's go kick some Butt.

[Phish_on]

Is this about FISH ??

I am just going to paste something that was forwarded to me, you can take it or leave it, but there's some things to think about ... this is only the 2nd half, the first was about airport security --- Michael Moore is a filmmaker and a what ... "rabble-rouser"

yesterday I was [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] , today I'm more [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

here it is

" ...
Well, the pundits are in full diarrhea mode, gushing on about the
“terrorist threat” and today’s scariest dude on planet earth --
Osama bin Laden. Hey, who knows, maybe he did it. But,
something just doesn’t add up.

Am I being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a
desert has been training pilots to fly our most modern,
sophisticated jumbo jets with such pinpoint accuracy that they are
able to hit these three targets without anyone wondering why these
planes were so far off path?

Or am I being asked to believe that there were four
religious/political fanatics who JUST HAPPENED to be skilled
airline pilots who JUST HAPPENED to want to kill themselves
today?

Maybe you can find one jumbo jet pilot willing to die for the cause --
but FOUR? Ok, maybe you can -- I don’t know.

What I do know is that all day long I have heard everything about
this bin Laden guy except this one fact -- WE created the monster
known as Osama bin Laden!

Where did he go to terrorist school? At the CIA!

Don’t take my word for it -- I saw a piece on MSNBC last year that
laid it all out. When the Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan, the
CIA trained him and his buddies in how to commits acts of
terrorism against the Soviet forces. It worked! The Soviets turned
and ran. Bin Laden was grateful for what we taught him and thought
it might be fun to use those same techniques against us.

We abhor terrorism -- unless we’re the ones doing the terrorizing.

We paid and trained and armed a group of terrorists in Nicaragua in
the 1980s who killed over 30,000 civilians. That was OUR work.
You and me. Thirty thousand murdered civilians and who the hell
even remembers!

We fund a lot of oppressive regimes that have killed a lot of
innocent people, and we never let the human suffering THAT
causes to interrupt our day one single bit.

We have orphaned so many children, tens of thousands around the
world, with our taxpayer-funded terrorism (in Chile, in Vietnam, in
Gaza, in Salvador) that I suppose we shouldn’t be too surprised
when those orphans grow up and are a little whacked in the head
from the horror we have helped cause.

Yet, our recent domestic terrorism bombings have not been
conducted by a guy from the desert but rather by our own citizens:
a couple of ex-military guys who hated the federal government.

From the first minutes of today’s events, I never heard that
possibility suggested. Why is that?

Maybe it’s because the A-rabs are much better foils. A key
ingredient in getting Americans whipped into a frenzy against a
new enemy is the all-important race card. It’s much easier to get
us to hate when the object of our hatred doesn’t look like us.

Congressmen and Senators spent the day calling for more money
for the military; one Senator on CNN even said he didn’t want to
hear any more talk about more money for education or health care -
- we should have only one priority: our self-defense.

Will we ever get to the point that we realize we will be more secure
when the rest of the world isn’t living in poverty so we can have nice
running shoes?

In just 8 months, Bush gets the whole world back to hating us
again. He withdraws from the Kyoto agreement, walks us out of the
Durban conference on racism, insists on restarting the arms race --
you name it, and Baby Bush has blown it all.

The Senators and Congressmen tonight broke out in a spontaneous
version of “God Bless America.” They’re not a bad group of singers!

Yes, God, please do bless us.

Many families have been devastated tonight. This just is not right.
They did not deserve to die. If someone did this to get back at
Bush, then they did so by killing thousands of people who DID NOT
VOTE for him! Boston, New York, DC, and the planes’ destination
of California -- these were places that voted AGAINST Bush!

Why kill them? Why kill anyone? Such insanity…

Let’s mourn, let’s grieve, and when it’s appropriate let’s examine our
contribution to the unsafe world we live in.

It doesn’t have to be like this…

Yours,

Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
"

[bajaspecial]

This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator.

What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon-not once, but several times-and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
Stand proud, America!

[Sean]

Pilar, Respect Bush's SPEECHWRITERS for the speech.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

You want to talk impact.

There's the largest chance I lost my best friend from college yesterday because a group worships a god of hate. God is a vengeful God, yes, but he is also a God of Love, and for God to only love one particular group of people like they believe is nuts. Evil men are at the helm of this and they use religion as an excuse to carry on evil and destruction.

Kill them all, and you let them know I said it. I burn a candle for you my friend.

[Sean]

Whether based in religion or not, intolerance FROM BOTH SIDES is the root cause. Not them, not us, both sides... An excerpt (any my own opinion) from an e-mail debate this morning with some relatives - it really makes sense to me:

"...I think other countries' feelings that we are an arrogant people probably comes more from their global perspective of the US, as opposed to the national perspective that you speak of. On a national level, yes you are right - we are very accepting (too accepting) of other nationalities and immigrants that use our basic support systems to make a go here at the expense of our own struggling citizens. On a global level, we are not tolerant of other races, their political regimes, and any ideas or practices that butt up against our definitions of democracy and freedom, i.e. our "manifest destiny" approach to political imperialism - our was is the best way and should be the only way, blah blah...

Now it gets sticky... Take China - we don't get along with the country, haven't for a while, and MOST of our tensions stem from the way we feel (politically) about their treatment of their people, their communist government, and various human rights, which as much as we would like to think stem from accepted rules common decency, they actually stem from our governmental interpretations of Christian values, the same values that went into the writing of the US Constitution. MANY OTHER COUNTRIES DON'T SHARE our interpretations, as well as our religions - Chinese laws and governmental regulations are based on a totally different set of rules that stem from their own religious interpretations and beliefs about how people should be treated. As backwards as that is in anyones mind, they should be free to interpret, as we have, their own religion and their own conscience as a means of governing. We mock what we don't understand. I AM SORRY THEY LIVE IN CHINA, and I AM SORRY THAT THEY ARE NOT FREE. But, in my own patriotic way, that is NOT MY PROBLEM. My problem is in my own back yard.

Where this comes apart is in the case of countries trying to over run and over take other large, strategically important tracts of land. Then we ought to whoop some *** , but under the guise of keeping the screwed up people where they can only hurt themselves. Otherwise, let the ******** blow them selves to smithereens".

[4Salt]

Here is my humble opinion:

1 - First and foremost, continue the rescue and recovery efforts in NYC and Washington DC with the full capability of our national resources.

2 - If you are religious, pray for the victims and their families. Try to do whatever we can personally, whether it be giving blood, making a donation to the Red Cross, or comforting someone we may know who has been directly affected by this tragedy.

3 - Try to put anger and hatred aside. Determine EXACTLY who perpetrated this, and take all necessary steps to bring them to justice and insure that this NEVER happens again, anywhere in the world.

4 - Demonstrate to those who supported this terrorist act that the United States WILL NOT be shaken, and will stand together in the face of any threat to our freedom and way of life.

Number 3 will probably be the most difficult. Judging fom the above posts, and those over on PP, swift and total retribution is the most popular course of action. I agree also, however I also share in the sentiment that we shouldn't just go out and kill anyone of middle-eastern descent. Remember, racial hatred almost wiped out the European Jews during WW2. World politics, and international relations are such complicated issues. Throw in the fact that many of these fanatics are willing to die for their cause. The threat of total annihilation, probably doesn't scare them the way that it would scare us. Just look at the hijackers, they were willing to die to commit this act. Add to that, if we did for instance, destroy Afghanistan for harboring the perpetrators, some other group, somewhere else would see it as a rallying cry to take more action against us. I suppose we could systematically wipe out all of the Arab countries, but what kind of world would that leave us? I believe America should lead the world by example, not by total dominance. Unfortunately, yesterday's horrific acts did accomplish at least one thing. They set into motion a nationwide feeling of anxiety, fear, and hatred. I feel we must let cooler heads prevail. Find the best solution for justice, and NEVER forget the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

[FM2]

There are many ideas both good and bad throughout this thread. If you want a chance to have an impact on the supporting of our country, click on the link below and post your support.

God Bless,
Keith

http://www.grassfire.net/11/petition...ID=1361890&P=1

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: FishinMishin2 ]

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I believe America should lead the world by example <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And we will as we make an example out of the perps. I am now taking pre-orders for ringside seats when they execute the persons responsible, or had any dealings with these crimes.

My mother is due for a trans-continental flight in 2 weeks, and I'm due for one in 2 months. I will not fly until we start cracking some skulls.

Kevin Kelly,

Of course you are right about the improper use of nukes. In my post of immediate extreme anger yesterday I said:

"Somehow I don't think this is right to feel, but at this time tonight I feel the best thing would be to go ahead a get the nukes out all over the hottest and most hate filled areas of the Middle East, and as was mentioned by a couple posters "turn them into glass"; or just ashes in the sand! I'm sorry I have been driven to feel that way". ...

As stated, that was only how I felt yesterday. More clear thinking will reappear in most places today. In that mode, I think we should do intense surgical air and missle strikes until all military and communication centers of such as the Taliban in Afganistan and other key terrorist centers and supporters and brought to their knees as we did in Iraq in '91. But this time follow up these with intensive and comprehensive ground troup strategies to search and destroy confirmed terrorist leaders such as Bin Laden. Don't stop at just him either, get as many of them as possible that have committed confirmed terrorist acts and serious threats. I know that's more than a tough task, but it should at least be done as comprehensively as is possible in given situations. Then up spending on intelligence and deterence. That means we all sacfifice some of our luxuries in our lifestyles (something the wealthy have the hardest time going along with, even though they still would have more than everyone else and more than they should need for happiness)! ...

Phish_on, why would you have to bring up "Is this about FISH?" at a time like this?!? [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] As for your pasted piece by Michael Moore ... I once had a lot of respect for his endeavors. But he himself has givein in to the dollar in an essential sell out. He likes to exagerate 'reverse journalization' to get enough reader interest to garner writing fees from news services. He has a few credible points in that piece about American Gov. mistakes, but they are exagerated in many cases. And he even has lost further respect by questioning (with zero validity) Gov/press speculation that Bin Laden is the main perpretator, by saying such as;

"Am I being asked to believe that this guy who sleeps in a tent in a desert has been training pilots to fly our most modern,
sophisticated jumbo jets with such pinpoint accuracy that they are able to hit these three targets without anyone wondering why these planes were so far off path?

Or am I being asked to believe that there were four religious/political fanatics who JUST HAPPENED to be skilled airline pilots who JUST HAPPENED to want to kill themselves
today?"

HEY! YO MICHAEL MOORE! During Desert Storm many of our most srategic plans and communications were born and carried out in tents! And we weren't near as used to that as the Arabic peoples! And Michael, you took the rest of any credibility out of your piece by the utter rediculous challenge to the CLEARLY OBVIOUS that these pilots planned these suicide missions. Are you being asked to belive they would do this?!? NOOOOOOOOO! We are asking you to believe they just happened to coincidentally accidently fly into the 2 WTC Towers and the Pentagon. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] ROLLEYES a thousand times on that idiotic statement Michael Moore. You may have now run your course with your new act, and would do well to get back to your previous credible work and idealogy. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

RT

[DanS]

bin Laden is a billionaire. Anyone who thinks he doesn't have the resources to pull off this act needs to extract his head from his a$$. He lives in a tent because he WANTS to, not beacuse he has to.

Sad thing is, WE trained bin Laden. He was "our" boy when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Same as Manny Noriega in Nicaragua, and Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Funny how "our" boys turn out to be "NOT" our boys. You think the CIA will stop their guerilla training camps? Looks to me like they should. Wanna see the NEXT suspect in attacks against the US? Maybe the CIA could turn over a list of the people they are currently training, and we could start from there.........

[Gregotis98]

This probably won't be well recieved but most of this is due to our support of Isreal. I'm not real up on forigen policy, but I don't know why we supported a group of people's decision to make a holy land on someone else's land and stand behind them for years when we have no bussiness being involved at all. I'M NOT SAYING WE DESERVED THIS, but please just look at how others might see us as a nation that tries to impose it's will where it has no right to be. I know I'm going to catch ***** over this but I'm just trying to look at this as how others might see it.

Who's God is right?

[Predator Dawg]

There comes a time when you are at war, however you percieve war, that you must send a decisive message to those that are not a part of that fight, that you are not someone to be messed with. Our time has come in this war. Bombing us in 93 on our own soil, bombing our posts abroad, bombing the USS Cole last year. All this time the Talisban and Iraq and others have sat idly and chuckled knowing that these cowards were based and/or using their countries for protection once they perform their hideous acts.

The time has finally come for us to put an end to this lineage. You can't 'end' terrorism, but you can inflict serious setbacks that take years to overcome and rebuild versus getting attacked constantly while you "refrain from stooping to their level, and take the high road". Their comes a time when it is a must that you display your dominance or you will continually get kicked in the ankle when you aren't looking.

The time has come.

It is time to create the worlds largest parking lot out of a couple Arab countries. Yes, inocent people will die. Many kids. Many of these are tomorrows terrorists, not that that makes it easy. It is something that must happen.

Bring them to trial, that simply makes them a Martyr.

God bless America.

I thought there would never be a time that I would say this but God Bless President Bush and the enormous burden he now bears. I may not agree with a lot of his policies and beliefs but he is our leader and he needs our support. On one of the other boards someone of course blamed former President Clinton for letting this thing happen and it saddens me to think that there are those kind of ignorant people out there.
We SHOULD NOT take our outrage on the muslim community here in America and a lot of the world. These are extremists in the truest sense of the word just like the Protestant and Catholic extremists in N. Ireland! After all how many have been killed in the name of Christ over the centuries? Let's not repeat the shameful action that was taken against Japanese-Americans during WWII.
Our response should be sustained, complete and DEVASTATING!!! No holding back! No stopping short like we did during Desert Storm. The only thing these people understand is action and force! Deadly force!
If you have a flag fly it! If not go get one!
We are the greatest nation on earth and we will get through this! Right is on our side and worldwide opinion is too!
Take Care and GOD BLESS THE USA!
Stew

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: BIGSTEW ]

[Timber Man]

[garyk]

Good post there DanS, especially the second paragraph. There's a bunch more names that could be added to that list. We keep investing in psychopaths, (they're psychopaths but at least they're OUR psychos),and then they turn on us. You'd think we'd learn by now.

I am in full support of the victims, and I'd gladly pull the trigger on the perps myself but our policies need to change so that we don't try to achieve peace by investing in murderous killers.

First, we need to take care of ourselves, our citizens, there's plenty of time to take care of those responsible -- and this needs to be done thoroughly and without error.

prayers to all
GK

[rhansme]

Hate is not the answer. I feel lots of it here on iFish. I expected more I guess. I am mad as hell, but hate is not the answer.
My father fought 5 campaigns during WWII, and I as a child got to re-live it through my dad as he told me stories and the horror of it all. It will not be you guys doing the retaliation. It will be our young men and women of our armed services that will bear the brunt of our actions. So when you direct your hate and ignore the facts. Be prepared to view their young bodies being paraded down some street in a forigen land.
"Nuke Em"....wow....Let's be worse than them, lets kill hundreds of thousands of civilians, You think Pakistan will stand for that...NO....You think India will let Pakistan drop a Nuke....NO....They will react with thier own....ETC&gt;&gt;&gt;ETC&gt;&gt;&gt;

You wont have to fry your fish anymore...They will glow from the aftermath....

[DanS]

GOOD POST T.M.! ME TOO!!

Terrorists do not comprehend the will and strength of America. This country will prevail, because we're AMERICANS, and we love our country. T

We will get the people that did this. We do not need to kill everyone in the middle east to avenge our lost countrymen. This country is different from others, and from these cowards. We will show the world what kind of country we are by wiping out those responsible, by not wiping out those NOT responsible, and by coming TOGETHER as Americans, NOT sniping at each other about what action should be taken.

Burning a Mosque in America isn't coming together as Americans. Charging your neighbors $5.00 for a gallon of gas isn't coming together as Americans. For God's sake, people, if what just happened to us cannot bring us together, what can?

I'm sick. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] So many dead citizens. So many dead firefighters and police officers. Tales of horror on the streets everywhere on TV. Surely, the death isn't over yet. Man, sometimes i wonder.......... [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

It is time to level them and make room for Wal-Marts. The survivors can work there, at least they'll be trained in customer service, instead of international espionage and germ warfare. You bleeding heart liberals need to come to realize that this isn't the first attack on our way of life. Since the loss of money is so great and the loss of life, it's now time we do something.

We should have taken care of the problems back in the 80s, before many of you turned into tofu eating, yoga instructors. No matter. 100-0 vote and the backing of NATO, it's time to crack some skulls.

Yes, our military will be the ones going over there and doing the fighting, not us. True. But last time I checked, It's in their JOB DESCRIPTION.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Not much I can say here. There isn't much anyone can say. The only potential is for you to make an a$$ of yourself, you/I won't actually help anything. That said, here goes.

1) Bush is doing the best he can, and the best any of our presidents ever has done in situations like this.

2) Yes, we have trained and supported people like Bin Laden. Here's one take on why. There are "thing" around the world that demand our attention. Notably freedom, democracy, and the right for citizens of ANY country to self-govern. When those rights are infringed, the US typically sees it as our duty to try to make that better. In the past, before Vietnam, this meant sending troops or at least military advisors. However, as our country became more complacent, and our resolve to protect freedom worldwide turned to desire for a bigger SUV and more credit cards, the people of America were less willing to send our own children to the fronts. Understandable. However, there was still work to be done, and if we couldn't do it, we found someone who could. THIS is how you end up with Bin Laden, Noriega, etc. We have psychos working for federal agencies too, but they are OUR psychos, we control them. You can't do that with nutcases like these. So, if you dont' want more of them, maybe we should be willing to fight for the things we love on a more personal level. Just a thought.

3) This is not a time to pick sides. There is only one side to pick. Doesn't mean you can' t have an opinion. It just means that right now, you opinion might not matter. What matters is that we remain the greatest country in the world in the face of our worst days. I think we are doing that so far, and I think it will continue. These terrorists wanted to kill as many people as possible, strike fear of death into as many people as possible, and disrupt our daily lives completely. They have failed. They killed thousands, but many escaped. They put fear into the hearts of America, for an afternoon. And they stalled the air traffic system, for a few days. We will rebuild those towers, 20 stories taller than they were. We will improve security on our airliners, the next terrorist hijacker will likely by killed in his boots. And we will continue being the citizens of the greatest country the world has known. What these cowards did was wake the giant again. They wanted our attention, and now, may Allah or whoever bless their "souls", they have it. They will be the most hated men on earth for the last few days of their sorry lives.

4) For our part, we need respect for those who died. We need to point fingers at those who pulled the trigger. Solving deeper issues can wait, and will not be forgotten, I'm sure. I want to see someone singing the national anthem in front of thousands this weekend. I also want a show of us moving ahead with daily life, but mostly I want thousands of Americans together under a flag, singing the anthem, and I wish I could be wherever this happens.

God bless the victims and their families.

[FM2]

What do we do ?

As a former military man my thoughts are to seek out and destroy. The power of our military goes well beyond the imagination of those that have not served. Frightening-Yes, Powerful-Yes, Efficient-Yes. There are many levels of power available to our leaders. Do I want immediate satisfaction-YES- probably like many people. But I know this is not wise and I'm grateful President Bush has faith and is surrounded by experienced and qualified experts. I believe the action will come but not until we are sure who is responsible for this horrific event. While much forcus has been put on Bin Laden, I think it's important we have a diverse view of the possibilities of an organized coalalition of terrorists. Will the killing of Bin Laden end terrorism--I doubt it ! It will provide a temporary satisfaction within many but I think this would not be a wise action. I believe we should look into the satellite terrorist organizations and strategically eliminate or weaken them which will have a deeper impact on terrorist activity. Once many of these organizations have been crippled then go for the major players--Bin Laden--Hussein to name two. Then I believe terrorists will think twice about their activity. The U.S. has been sucker punched but this will not be the end, just the beginning of a new era of battling terrorism.

I have deep empathy for the people of New York, Washington DC and our nation. The cloud of paronia and anxiety is very thick and I can say I'm uncomfortable. It's almost beyond comprehension how an event can have such a strong grip on people but Americans have such strong and resilient character that once the shock is over, people can return to a sense of security within their sphere of influence. This tragedy will have far reaching implications on lives, maybe even generations, so this is a time for all Americans to unite and stay united and to be less tolerant of the "wrong" that exists all around us.

Being a spiritual person who believes in Jesus Christ, I find great comfort in praying for the victims, their families, our nation, our leaders and for the events that we will be facing in the near future. This event shows how vulnerable and temporary lives are, but I for one know my salvation is secured by faith.

God Bless All !!

[Grits]

I don't know if it has been discussed elsewhere on this board but I find it interesting that the head of airport security in Portland was fired for following the letter of the law. It was always said that what he was doing was within the scope of the law it just wasn't warm and fuzzy and liberals like warm and fuzzy.

It seems to me like we might want to bring him back and put more people like him with the same courage to do the job properly as heads of airport security.

Yes, that will mean inocent people who just forgot proper documentation might spend a night in jail but that is the way it is in other countries.

In closing my thoughts and prayers go out to all of those affected by this and would like to thank all of the people involved in the effort to deal with the after math.

[jawbreaker]

It matters little to me if Bin Laden is behind this or not. This is a war against Terrorism and he's a terrorist. I'm sure there are hundreds or even thousands just like him. They "ALL" must pay the piper. If you think for one second that going after one guy is going to end terrorism then think again. We never finished the job with Saddam and it is biting us in the *** . Don't be surprised when his name comes up as a major player in this. We've never gone after anyone of these guys with the vengence and killer instict necessary to stomp this out. Had we done this ten years ago, we might not even be talking about this today.
Lets end this now and take care of business. There are some tough decisions that have to be made and yes,its going to get ugly. If we don't stop this now, then you haven't seen ugly yet. God forbid they actually get nuclear technology, which they are reportedly trying to get. Terrorists want to kill all Americans...Men, women and children. We must fight for our freedom.
jb

[Lipripper]

Did I hear that during the Carter administration that there was a law or whatever passed stating that we as Americans can not seek out the execution of a foreign leader/terrorist/anarchist? Did I also hear that there is now some support to abolish that law allowing us to actively seek the execution of Bin Ladin? I hope I heard correctly. Although with a 5 million dollar bounty on his head that has produced no results I wonder if this abolishment of current laws will have any effect. The time for talk has passed it is now time for sustained attacks on who ever is deemed responsible for these cowardly attacks. The biggest question in my mind is this---These people don't care if they kill innocent victims and we as a nation are of a mind that colatteral damage is unacceptable warfare. But if we do not fight these people on their terms, terms which they understand,do we have any chance of defeating terrorism? I feel that killing innocent people is what is holding us back in a lot of respects, such as So Dam In Sane. If we had leveled Iraq these terrorist would see what would be in store for them. IDENTIFY THEM! FIND THEM!! KILL THEM!!!!

[bigshark]

All on this thread

We are all sickened and angry. Some of us will react more quickly than others. Some will think the problem out better than others. I can't lay claim to having a good answer to what should be done now or how to do it. I can only try to tell you what seems right in my heart. Whoever it was, we should ask for he and all this playmates be turned over by those who harbor them or they who harbor them can kiss their *** goodbye! This said, this surely is not the solution.This feeling just can't be right. Get yes, capital punishment yes, but there surely must be more. The act that is now believed to have taken place on the plane that crashed in Penn. is an example of better values than what we are told to teach our children today. These brave people stopped this plane by stopping the terrorist. How many lives of their fellow Americans did they save? God bless them! We need to be less politically correct and each of us be willing to pay some price for the good of all. The article intitled World War III in todays New York Times is very enlightening as to what we are up against. It points out why intelligence agencies were not and will not be able to detect this act and those in the future. YOU can read this article by going to www.ceoexpress.com The authors words ring in my head as those of truth and
wisdom. He closes his comments with these words:

" We have to fight the terrorists as
if there were no rules, and preserve
our open society as if there were no
terrorists. It won't be easy. It will
require our best strategists,our most
creative diplomats and our bravest
soldiers. Semper Fi."

[Lund]

the bible says " an eye for an eye"

we've got alot of eyes to take care of, so lets get started!

[Vinny]

FM2 - Excellent Post!

I pray that our government will Not act until they have enough information to snuff-out as many terrorists and harborers in "one fell swoop" as is possible.

I pray for the families of, and those who have died.

Terrorism grows from racism. Stop racism . .

I pray for and am saddened for the innocent people who will die in the path of our war against terorism.

It must be done.

[Phish_on]

Aw, RT, I did it just to P*$$ you off, 'cause I'm an annoying smart@$$. Big surprise [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Every day I am feeling something different. I'm worried about something today - listen:

we all want to find who did it and MAKE THEM PAY ... but if it really is who it looks like we are preparing to blame - these guys LOVE to DIE. Now, I really don't understand that, I don't think many of us do, in fact if anyone does please clue me in. But KILLING them may be exactly the VERY WRONG thing to do. See what I mean - kill bin Laden, he grows nine more heads, etc. They WANT to DIE in their stupid "Holy War" ...

So what to do, yeah ? ? ?

Carefully gather them up first ... then send them to meet Allah as a group.

Tomorrow I'll probably think something else. I'm just bothered. I also don't like the mass media thing going on, I worry that we'll just grow numb to it like so many other horrifying Media Events - - - it still doesn't seem real, anyway .

[img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[boater]

[invader]

i belive in god! and god does not tell anyone to crash a plane into a building and kill people!!......there is only one true loving god!!... ps its not allah or muhamad!