Plan of action against poachers?

[skein]

I think we all agree that poaching is becoming more and more of a problem, both for hunters and for game management agencies. For that matter it's even a problem for the folks who just like to see animals alongside the roads. Everybody loses.

Our reactions seem to cover the gamut, but somewhere in the mix there should be some reasonable solutions that can help turn the problem around. I don't think we can stop it completely, but we should be able to slow it down and alleviate it in some areas. Those solutions may include harsher penalties or increased enforcement or more aggressive TIP participation, but without a doubt what we're doing isn't working.

If you were going to address the Fish and Game Commission with some workable solutions, what would you include -- and in which order.

( I don't think shoot 'em will be accepted :grin: )

Skein

[PGJPJ]

Any government, policy, or otherwise legislative solutions would be a long time coming (if they ever even address it). But I think an organized effort by volunteers might help.

Another program in my area that comes to mind is called “Dump Stoppers.” I believe it involves volunteers watching who is coming and going on the county roads. Spotting illegal dump sights, and helping clean up the messes.

Could something like that work? Like a “poachers patrol” where volunteers watch who is coming and going on these county roads. Call the TIP line if needed. Put up like neighborhood watch signs. Even solicit those who live in these areas to keep an eye out.

I don’t know, I’d join an organization like that.

[Maddie'sDaddy]

I think there needs to be some sort of voluntary public enforcement with limitations allowed to cover what the short handed OSP can't, I know with all the liabilities that would be almost impossible, but untill they have more resources to really crack down on these people who mainly come out at night(when there is no patrol) I dont know what else would work, definately the penalties for poaching need to be much ,much more hurtfull to the Poachers as in stiffer fines, possible jail time, or even gauranteed jail time to really make these people think about doing it again. Thats a hard one with all the access to the wilderness in this state and limited patrols ,its a poachers paradise.




MD

[fishboys]

I would start with the issue of funding, Acquiring funds would seem to be the number one issue for enforcement.

You can make more rules and stronger punishments but if you cant fund enforcement it doesn't do any good

I know the issue of increasing the fee's for licence's and tags are touchy but I for one would pay more for all licence's and tags including fishing, birds, shellfish.

Good topic

[skein]

I, too, like the idea of "Poacher's Patrol" where we could at least report vehicle descriptions, etc. There are certainly areas that seem to be getting hit harder than other areas, and those might be a good place to start. If nothing else, word would get out.

I'm also in favor of stiffer penalties, and I'm not necessarily talking about jail time, although community service such as cleaning up those dump sites PJ mentioned might be effective. Certainly putting pictures in a local paper would be a deterent to some. I also like the idea of confiscation of firearms, vehicles, and even freezers that were used in poaching. Those items could then be auctioned off and the money put back in patrols.

I've also thought about extra preference points for successful prosecution that resulted from a TIP report. Save the reward money for additional patrols, and let the incentive be the chance for a better hunt. The cost to the state would be next to nothing.

Skein

[traks44]

Originally Posted by skein

I, too, like the idea of "Poacher's Patrol" where we could at least report vehicle descriptions, etc. There are certainly areas that seem to be getting hit harder than other areas, and those might be a good place to start. If nothing else, word would get out.

I'm also in favor of stiffer penalties, and I'm not necessarily talking about jail time, although community service such as cleaning up those dump sites PJ mentioned might be effective. Certainly putting pictures in a local paper would be a deterent to some. I also like the idea of confiscation of firearms, vehicles, and even freezers that were used in poaching. Those items could then be auctioned off and the money put back in patrols.

I've also thought about extra preference points for successful prosecution that resulted from a TIP report. Save the reward money for additional patrols, and let the incentive be the chance for a better hunt. The cost to the state would be next to nothing.

Skein

good ideas my friend..

volunteer patrols, much like the caddet program would be spectacular, if they gave me a truck and fuel with some training I would be out there all the time.....

We really need to look at both sides of the coin because if funding isnt availabe then volunteering will be the only way in which case I dont think they would have a problem finding viable, good, clean record people to patrol during hunting season.

IMO, harsher punishment will probably be the best determant. keep the ideas comming guys.:lurk:

[Limbhanger]

1. Better funding for enforcement
2. Stiffer penalties
a. Mandatory jail time
b. Suspension of drivers license
c. Increase the minimum fines
d. Mandatory community service regarding wildlife and, or habitat.
e. Mandatory time standing on a street corner holding a sign
that says "I am a wildlife poacher".

etc, etc, etc......

Actually, all the ideas that get posted would be great. The problem is society is too soft and the majority does not agree with harsh punishments. That is why the jail system is revolving door of repeat offenders.

[northriver1]

Not sure what one does with our generation of poachers Skein other then your idea. However, the future of hunting is in the hands of the young girls and boys we see walking the streets. Would it not be wise that during the hunter safety aspect of their training more time be spent on what it means to be a good citizen. I would also think one could ask more of our educational system in that regards too. Many but not all these problems would be reduced if we had parents who them selves showed more repect toward other humans and our resources. Kids often end up just like their mom and dad, sometimes good and sometimes not so good.

The idea of more jial time is appealing but we hardly have room for the rappers and muggers now. Not sure the public would put up[ with long jail terms for poachers as rappers are walking the street. No clear answer from me but I would somehow start with education of our youth and than implement your idea for the adults. This problem will not be solved over night.

Is there any hard data that says these types of crimes are on the increase or is this just a hot button as we see more articles in the papers these days?

[Smoked Salmon]

Conviction of poaching = Lifetime loss of hunting and fishing privileges in all cooperating states.
$1 surcharge on all licenses and tags to fund rewards for tips leading to prosecution of poachers. ($10,000 per prosecution)
(I buy a combo license and at least 5 tags a year, so there is $7 in surcharges from me)
Successful conviction will make required the DMV to provide special license plate for all vehicles owned by convicted poacher. I'll leave the design up to someone with a little more anger than I currently carry...


Bill

nr - I don't think poaching is happening more, but it certainly is getting more press, and is getting discovered more often. I know a few old farmers that would take an extra buck in order to feed their family, or another family. That doesn't happen so much anymore, as any witness would be more inclined to just report it now rather than ask the right questions.

[Yeti]

1) Make it a felony.
2) Automatic foriture of any thing used in congunction with the crime. Right down to their shoe, truck, guns and home in extreme cases.

[ehunter]

Skein I think you have some good ideas. I would volunteer too.

I think Limbhanger is right. Although Jail time won't work because there is no space. I think higher fines for poachers use the money to put back into enforcement. I think we need to make it painful for poachers so the word gets out. I know people talk about substance hunting in the back woods but wasteful use of our resources needs to be addressed and out side of hanging I think fines and community service and public shaming them once they have been convicted. Is public tar and feathering a option

Hey I want to know who is doing it that well help people keep a eye on them. The problem is that there is so much country that the only way we can do any thing is though volunteer work. Including during hunting season.

Doesn't washington have some kind of poaching plan in place?

Originally Posted by skein

I, too, like the idea of "Poacher's Patrol" where we could at least report vehicle descriptions, etc. There are certainly areas that seem to be getting hit harder than other areas, and those might be a good place to start. If nothing else, word would get out.

I'm also in favor of stiffer penalties, and I'm not necessarily talking about jail time, although community service such as cleaning up those dump sites PJ mentioned might be effective. Certainly putting pictures in a local paper would be a deterent to some. I also like the idea of confiscation of firearms, vehicles, and even freezers that were used in poaching. Those items could then be auctioned off and the money put back in patrols.

I've also thought about extra preference points for successful prosecution that resulted from a TIP report. Save the reward money for additional patrols, and let the incentive be the chance for a better hunt. The cost to the state would be next to nothing.

Skein

[Kalamity]

Washington has a program called Eyes in the Woods. Just from reading the website, one statement stuck out...

Our Purpose:
To assist with the reduction of poaching, other resource abuses, and biological information gathering and resource enhancement projects.

(Eyesinthewoods dot org)

There's the actual physical "solution" I guess you could say. I'd like to check out a meeting beginning of next year and see what it's all about.

As far as the law side of it, I agree with some here. It should be a felony and the forfiture of anything used during the course of the crime should be siezed. They are using a weapon to commit a crime.

[fishinpox]

I would think they would get the message real quick if everything was confiscated when poaching. Something definitely needs to be done, and I'd be willing to drive around in the woods every so often to help with it.

[Thehunter]

I'm not total against poaching or what you guys call poaching.

Is providing for your family POACHING? or just being a good parent. ODFW limiting hunts in my area so i can't hunt? When do my rights come into play. I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying there is more to it then just people who kill to kill.

There is people who should be turn in, i want argue that. I'm just arguing that ODFW is out of control. My guess is that there is no more poaching today than there was 20 years ago.

So let me ask this question; Is it poaching if your family needs the meat?

I agree with with a bigger fine. Make 35,000 and see what happens....

[Gun Rod Bow]

Originally Posted by Thehunter

So let me ask this question; Is it poaching if your family needs the meat?

You really can't be serious? Are you?

Is it stealing if you rob your neighbor because he has more than you?

There are massive aid programs in this country available for needy people.

If someone CHOOSES to drive into the woods and poach and try to claim some moral high ground because their kids will eat it, they need to be locked up. Period.

A buddy bagged a van full of...let's just call them "non english speaking fellows" that shot a deer with a rifle during the late archery deer season. He was able to get a cell call out and the OSP caught them leaving the woods with the rifle, deer, no tags, etc.

Our eyes on the woods are a great start.

Stiffer penalties for these acts will be the best deterents. Like with a lot of crime, when someone gets caught, it is usually after a long time of doing it without getting caught.

When a slap on the wrist is the result, they repeat offend. Examples are on threads on this board now.

I suggest we publish the names of prosecuters who are working these cases and send letters asking for stiffer penalties.

[Limbhanger]

Originally Posted by Gun Rod Bow

You really can't be serious? Are you?

Is it stealing if you rob your neighbor because he has more than you?

There are massive aid programs in this country available for needy people.

If someone CHOOSES to drive into the woods and poach and try to claim some moral high ground because their kids will eat it, they need to be locked up. Period.

A buddy bagged a van full of...let's just call them "non english speaking fellows" that shot a deer with a rifle during the late archery deer season. He was able to get a cell call out and the OSP caught them leaving the woods with the rifle, deer, no tags, etc.

Our eyes on the woods are a great start.

Stiffer penalties for these acts will be the best deterents. Like with a lot of crime, when someone gets caught, it is usually after a long time of doing it without getting caught.

When a slap on the wrist is the result, they repeat offend. Examples are on threads on this board now.

I suggest we publish the names of prosecuters who are working these cases and send letters asking for stiffer penalties.

I agree, if someone needs meat that bad they should take the gas and cigarette money they are using while poaching at the grocery store.

For stiffer penalties isnt that just something like a ballot initiative that can be voted on in an election? If so maybe the OHA lobbyist can get that started. Maybe someone who knows law making can chime in.......

[TonTo]

Make it a felony.

In cases where there is wanton waste like removing angtlers only or just thrill killing yes I agree it should be a felony.As far as illeagal harvesting of meat,I'm kinda skitsy about passing new felonies.Call me parinoid but I just think of "poaching of the 'Kings deer" laws are kinda why this country was established, I realy hate to see any new laws,I just wish the existing ones could be enforced.

[scottishsetter]

I remember a survey on the most dangerous intersections in the U.S. and 'they' came up with the fact of signs;ie. signage; improved signs making intersections more 'clear';;;it reduced accidents something like 80% in those areas......
As it applies here.....How about an OHA Standard signs(4X8') that let
John Q. Public know WHAT Hunting seasons are open with what weapons and when legal shooting hours are... then we just enlisted 100 more people in the enforcement.(Not sure if that could or WOULD bite us in the end but..) Clear rules at key roads up to the woods could do something for prevention if poachers knew the Public had knowledge that ...say...rifle season was CLOSED in the area at a specific time/dates.
Fines or part of could go to OHA to reimburse them for costs and maintenence.

????

[TonTo]

Originally Posted by Kalamity

It should be a felony and the forfiture of anything used during the course of the crime should be siezed. They are using a weapon to commit a crime.

I'ld rather it not be thought of as a weapon,but rather a tool in a case like this.I do agree stiffer penalties are in order,civil penalties,more jail time,forfeture.....,but I still believe felony laws should only exist in cases of wanton waste where an animal is shot illeagaly and then left to rot,and in cases like these I believe it should be a felony and cary a prison term,as well as civil,and forfeture.Three strikes and yer out for good.

[Joe Schwab]

Since private lands have become more and more "locked up" there seems to be a trend toward getting around the gates and once inside a greater feeling of not getting caught. I posed the question to Longview Fibre Security recently that maybe RV sites available to host couples at the entrance to the larger areas. Or maybe some nice sites on some prominent high spots. These would be stay for free sites and would have good communication lines set up. It might be attractive to some people to have their own tree farm to live on, travel on and watch over.

Raising penalties is kind of redundant when the courts will not even hand out maximum fines and sentences under the current laws.

Right now Access and Habitat laws only apply during the fall period. Maybe the laws should apply year round. Shortage of enforcement is one of the problems. Fewer and fewer retired officers want to work those jobs anymore.

[ehunter]

Are you serious? :frown: If you need meat sell your guns and your hunting truck and save the gas. Gee's in todays world you can buy a lot of chicken for a 40 to 50 dollar fill up to go hunting. Poaching is robbing just like shop lifting or breaking in to support the families drug habit. Very few people in this day and age are hunting to just feed them selves. The cost to hunt is no cheap venture
especially with the price of fuel.

I hunt and enjoy the meat but with my last 2 elk seasons under my belt I could have bought a whole cow each year.

I think if we were able to enforce the current rules and we made them pay the max fines that would be a start in the right direction. If we make it so that poachers feel that there is a chance they will get caught and it is not going to be pleasant.

Originally Posted by Thehunter

I'm not total against poaching or what you guys call poaching.

Is providing for your family POACHING? or just being a good parent. ODFW limiting hunts in my area so i can't hunt? When do my rights come into play. I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying there is more to it then just people who kill to kill.

There is people who should be turn in, i want argue that. I'm just arguing that ODFW is out of control. My guess is that there is no more poaching today than there was 20 years ago.

So let me ask this question; Is it poaching if your family needs the meat?

I agree with with a bigger fine. Make 35,000 and see what happens....

[Maddie'sDaddy]

Originally Posted by Thehunter

I'm not total against poaching or what you guys call poaching.

Is providing for your family POACHING? or just being a good parent. ODFW limiting hunts in my area so i can't hunt? When do my rights come into play. I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying there is more to it then just people who kill to kill.

There is people who should be turn in, i want argue that. I'm just arguing that ODFW is out of control. My guess is that there is no more poaching today than there was 20 years ago.

So let me ask this question; Is it poaching if your family needs the meat?

I agree with with a bigger fine. Make 35,000 and see what happens....

Sorry Thehunter, but thats a rediculous comment around here, I used to live in Pennsylvania in the hills and yes there were familys out there that I would not turn in if they were to kill a deer for meat, but in Pennsylvania they definately do not have the numbers problem we do as far as deer population. Like alot of these other guys stated with all the Aid there is out there ,no reason for it here.

And you have every right that anyone else does to hunt legally.


MD

[traks44]

Originally Posted by Thehunter

I'm not total against poaching or what you guys call poaching.

Is providing for your family POACHING? or just being a good parent. ODFW limiting hunts in my area so i can't hunt? When do my rights come into play. I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying there is more to it then just people who kill to kill.

There is people who should be turn in, i want argue that. I'm just arguing that ODFW is out of control. My guess is that there is no more poaching today than there was 20 years ago.

So let me ask this question; Is it poaching if your family needs the meat?

I agree with with a bigger fine. Make 35,000 and see what happens....

I have contemplated this question many of times and discussed it even more. If someone is is starving they will drive out some gravel road, shoot the first deer they see load it into whatever they are driving and quickly exit the area. So atleast they are taking the animal and not leaving the animal to waste and for everyone to see on the side of the road with its head cut off. Then we have the trophy poachers who are stupid enough and wasteful enough to leave a complete body within sight of a main road, these people are not looking for meat. I am not at all saying if you dont waste the animal then go ahead and poach, but there are those especially here in rural oregon that do kill for the meat and use every ounce of it, a full grown elk or deer will feed a small family for quite a while, and there really is no cost when you live in the boonie anyway. Like stated above there are programs to help these people get back on their feet. I am very good friends with a retired game warden and I love to have him tell stories, many of thes stories include people who were just wanting meat. This is an issue I feel more than comfortable leaving the OSP to judge and call the fines for because we still need to be humans towards humans.

Poaching is not ok at any level, I just feel there is some degree of it that is worse than others, killing and wasting is by far worse in my mind than poaching and utilizing.

Basically, we are not talking about those few who really are trying to feed their family they are a VERY small bunch anyway and atleast they are trying to be men towards their family and they arent the kind to go out alot looking for game. Those killing for antlers and commiting other illegal activities have no excuse except idiocy, thrown the book at them!

[scottishsetter]

[oregonmuley]

Poaching is Poaching and anyone that thinks its OK if its to feed the their family, well I just don't know what to say about that, that will not get deleted off this post . But for you folks that have the pleasure of living over on the east side of the state, say one of these poor folks came and killed one of you cows or sheep because they want to feed the family, would you just let it go??? Afterall its for a good cause right?? I call BS on anyone poaching for any reason.

[Pond]

The day I catch someone poaching TRUELY to feed there family...I'd probably let them go. But I hear that excuse every year from guys driving new diesel pickups with the latest greatest guns and equipment. Most of those people will never know what it is to be truely hungery. With the Food Banks ect available it's hard to believe someone would let there family go hungry.

I'd like to see hunters attend court proceedings when poachers are there so the justice system knows how important F&W are to us. The court room is usually empty unless we contact our local OHA chapters and advise them a special case. Maybe then we can start seeing some good sentences.

Something else I'd like to see is Trophy status on 20 wide 4x4's on bucks. Make resititution for those trophies about $20,000.00 like some of our neighboring states.

Pond

[scottishsetter]

The other day on the radio charity fundraiser; 'they' said there are 26 Food Banks in the Salem area!!!!!!!

[Bait O' Eggs]

I like the idea of the organized citizen posse working areas at certain times catching poachers. If this was done in conjunction with the OSP we could cover several drainages in a night. The cost of fuel isnt cheap to drive roads at night while hunting down these poachers.

If we had a pilot amongst us who can fly at night, we could cover some serious territory.

I know a logging mechanic who spends a lot of time fixing machinery at night when the crew is gone home. Tells me nearly every night he is working on equipment, he hears shots off in the distance. Just your typical single shot like something got poached.

I am all for the trophy clause in the penalty department. Shoot a 3 point or better, or 20 inches wide as mentioned earlier. They should have everything including there house confiscated and a cut of their checks taken till the $50,000 fine is paid. The serious poachers who are repeat offenders are after trophies, not meat.

[ehunter]

Boy do I agree that is a great point. I also understand what traks is saying but personaly I think that is what is wrong there is always a excuse in this day and age. It still bugs me about the snowball episode what they were doing was ilegal period. When you break the law you should have to pay. That is called making people be accountable and responsible.

I am all for the trophy clause in the penalty department. Shoot a 3 point or better, or 20 inches wide as mentioned earlier. They should have everything including there house confiscated and a cut of their checks taken till the $50,000 fine is paid. The serious poachers who are repeat offenders are after trophies, not meat.[/quote]

[Old Coot]

Much as I despise the Measure 11 approach, maybe that is part of the answer. Remove the option for judges to waive or reduce penalties. Require MANDATORY confiscation of everything used in the violation, right down to their watch at the time of arrest. Upon conviction, 5 year suspension of hunting and angling PRIVELEGES and the confiscation rolls into forfeiture, with all seized property to be sold at auction and the proceeds mandated to the enforcement program.

For a second conviction, mandatory jail time and lifetime suspension of hunting and angling PRIVELEGES.

I've had a few poachers in my Hunter Ed classes, sent by judges. They were required to complete the class before they could hunt again. In talking with them, typical penalties seem to run in the neighborhood of $350-$1000 fines and suspension of hunting PRIVELEGES for 12-24 months. If the violator whined that he couldn't come up with the money, then a payment schedule was set up for about $30 a month. Big deal. Beer money.

Hunting is not a "right", it is a privelege.

The poaching to feed the family comment was the lamest whine I've heard since they closed Fairview. It is no more justified than robbing Safeway.

My own comment, don't fault ODFW for lack of enforcement. They are not an enforcement agency and do not have police powers. The Oregon State Police is the agency charged with primary enforcement of game laws in this state. The legislature and the Gov control the purse strings, rag on them.

[Got One!]

Originally Posted by Old Coot

Much as I despise the Measure 11 approach, maybe that is part of the answer. Remove the option for judges to waive or reduce penalties. Require MANDATORY confiscation of everything used in the violation, right down to their watch at the time of arrest. Upon conviction, 5 year suspension of hunting and angling PRIVELEGES and the confiscation rolls into forfeiture, with all seized property to be sold at auction and the proceeds mandated to the enforcement program.

For a second conviction, mandatory jail time and lifetime suspension of hunting and angling PRIVELEGES.

I've had a few poachers in my Hunter Ed classes, sent by judges. They were required to complete the class before they could hunt again. In talking with them, typical penalties seem to run in the neighborhood of $350-$1000 fines and suspension of hunting PRIVELEGES for 12-24 months. If the violator whined that he couldn't come up with the money, then a payment schedule was set up for about $30 a month. Big deal. Beer money.

Hunting is not a "right", it is a privelege.

The poaching to feed the family comment was the lamest whine I've heard since they closed Fairview. It is no more justified than robbing Safeway.

My own comment, don't fault ODFW for lack of enforcement. They are not an enforcement agency and do not have police powers. The Oregon State Police is the agency charged with primary enforcement of game laws in this state. The legislature and the Gov control the purse strings, rag on them.

I think thats on the right track, I'd look at loss of gun ownership for 10 years and boocoo community service also. It was also mentioned about sustainance as an excuse....Thats a bit tough for me to choke that down in this day and age. If you have the time to go out and hunt, you have the time to go to Mcdonalds and work nights. There have been times I've had to get 3 jobs to pay the bills, they all were crappy, but that is what I had to do to feed my family at the time.

[cheyenne10]

northriver1 hit the nail on the head. Are we just tired of poachers or does it include car break-ins, thefts, shoplifting, etc. Our countries future is in the hands of our youth. Our youth are ideally in our hands for a while. We need to get back to educating our kids, and youth in general to make changes. It will take years but its taken us years to get here. Some of it can be done in schools and the rest at home. More citizenship in the community and respect for others as well as themselves would go a long ways. We need to make sure to set good examples as parents and also spend time with our kids.

Last thing - how many crimes in general involve drugs of some kind? My observation is that hunting/fishing crimes most times involve alcohol.

There is a time and a place for most everything in moderation. (that whats legal)

[Ni!]

A poacher posse in cooperation with OSP would be a great idea. Let's organize that. Set up a liaison with OSP to find out where the problem areas are, then saturate them with coordinated patrols.

I'm not good at organizing these things, but I'd be willing to ride along if we got something going. Who else is in?

[Kalamity]

..."felony laws should only exist in cases of wanton waste where an animal is shot illeagaly and then left to rot,and in cases like these I believe it should be a felony and cary a prison term,as well as civil,and forfeture.Three strikes and yer out for good."

TonTo I agree with what you said here. (Sometimes when thinking about issues it's easy to get one type of scenario in your head and forget the rest. My bad.)

[tag-a-long]

I am on poacher patrol every time I am out. I have OSP local numbers for several areas of the state programmed into my cell as well as a few County Sheriffs numbers. Make the call!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't think, oh well, someone is just out checking things out. I have been stopped several times. Yes, its a hassle, it takes a few minutes to have your ODL run. But its worth it. It makes me feel like they are attempting to do what they can. I think that the expense of having more "game troopers" out is a big problem for the state. Its time that we help "police" the woods. DO NOT READ VIGILLANTE here. Simply keep eyes and ears open. I know that there is alot of money wasted in a few programs. It burns me up. You send a few hundred e-mails a year and nothing happens. I feel that stiffer penalties might work, but if you look at crime overall, not just poaching, no one is sitting in jail.
The crooks know that they will not face any stiff penalties. Maybe a ticket, lose a stolen gun. No big deal to them. Maybe a three strikes program for poachers. The third time is an automatic felony. No chance to ever legally own another firearm. Maybe the laws need to be changed to stiffen the penalties. Seizure of property where the game was discovered. The police seize cars all the time. Lincoln County will seize your vehicle if you are convicted of DUII.
This is a plague. It will not stop unless we, as sportsmen and sportswomen get involved. Just like the problem with meth. Alot more is seen and heard about now versus five years ago simply due to the fact that more people are aware of the problem and they are keeping a look out.
All the talk about the decline in deer numbers, but no studies relating poarchnig to declining numbers????????:frown:

I surely don't have all the answers. Wish I did. I do know that its time to get something started to cure this.

[Hunt'nFish]

Originally Posted by skein

I, too, like the idea of "Poacher's Patrol" where we could at least report vehicle descriptions, etc. There are certainly areas that seem to be getting hit harder than other areas, and those might be a good place to start. If nothing else, word would get out.


Skein

Yeah, kinda like the Minutemen Patrols on the southern border. Only a local poacher patrol.
I also think trail cams could really be a big help. Catalog vehicles entrying and exiting on main roads. Patterns & time schedules develop.

Or maybe a random 2 night per month sting operation. Drop volunteers off for a night in the woods with bino's and radios. Watch for lights in the night and call in positions and activity to LE's waiting by to nab'em.
Hunt'nFish

[skein]

I agree, Tag, that we're looking for "eyes in the woods" instead of "vigilantes." I especially like your idea of several numbers in your cell phone so you can alert someone who can investigate.

Just like the guy who turned in the van-load that GRB mentioned, we don't have to WITNESS the shot, nor do we have to CONFRONT the suspects. All we need is a vehicle description, a location, and a phone number. If we can get a license plate number then that's all the better.

And.... if we are known to the authorities, i.e. our vehicle description and plate number, then if someone calls about us, OSP or whoever will know we're on patrol. As an example, I have hunted coyotes as a farmer's agent, at night and with a light. I would always contact the local OSP/Sheriff and let them know I would be in such-and-such location shining a light around, and my truck was a ____ with license # ____. That way they didn't have to drive all the way out there if they received a call. Make sense?

But that's just one side of the coin. We have to lobby our legislators to tighten up the laws and make the punishment be an actual deterrent.

What do they say, "The devil is in the details?"

Keep 'em coming - these are good ideas.

Skein

[Ni!]

How much would it cost for iFish to sponsor our very own Scruffy? That could be fun. We could post videos of the busts on a sticky thread.

[ghost grizzly]

Long time lurker 1st time posting.

I actually find some merit in these posts.

POA:

Someone needs to find a copy of the OAR regarding wildlife poaching and post it here. Then we can hash out the details of what we would like to see changed in it.

Next we approach a state legislator about introducing the changes of the OAR at the next session.

We follow the bill closely and testify and lobby the legislators for our changes.

This is how it happens!

Who's game??

[fishinpox]

I have been stopped several times. Yes, its a hassle, it takes a few minutes to have your ODL run. But its worth it. It makes me feel like they are attempting to do what they can.

I have been checked numerous times when down at the river. I love when they want to check things out. If you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about.

[Thehunter]

Kind of and interesting story for all you guys.
Me and 4 buddies where fishing in Astorie for sturgeon 3 years ago or so. A local charter came in with 6 or 7 sturgeon. The fish checker who works for ODFW was checking there catch. We clearly saw that 3 fish were well under the legal limit, which was 45 inches. We question it and he pretty much laughed at us.....POINT taken, i think they really don't give a rats butt.

so what do you do in the situation? leave? Take there fish? I think you would see a lot of this in hunting big game also. There are some bad game inforcement officers out there.

[Pond]

Try contacting your local Oregon Hunters Association they are already working with the legislator's and have a paid lobbist. They for the most part are doing alot of the work you guys are talking about. The best thing alot of you could do is:

JOIN OHA Now!

Pond

[Thehunter]

Perhaps if they got life in prison you would see a change in poachings. We all know you can't remove them from hunting total...Because then they would just poach anyways.

I know the guy that patrals all the Grizzly Unit. They catch very few.

[Thehunter]

Pond, i've bet we have been at the same OHA meetings in Redmond...They tried to get me to join......I think they wanted 100 bucks or something. How about wave the join fee?

[willametteriveroutlaw]

I think these are all great ideas, the problem is enforcement even with citizen patrols. I have been checked one time goose hunting in my whold hunting career in oregon.. 3 or 4 times fishing total. Thats pretty sad considering the number of days I have spent in the field. Poaching in southern oregon is rampant from what I have seen and been witness too. Calling for these huge sentences ins't going to work because the lack of enforcement won't do anything. Personally as much as I don't like poachers, I would rather see the guy who broke into my house in jail more than a poacher. the taking away privildges would be a good idea, but it wont do anything because without enforcement. I know a local coastie who has had his fishing liscene revoked for 3 years and yet I still see him fishing occasionally.

[Limbhanger]

Originally Posted by willametteriveroutlaw

I think these are all great ideas, the problem is enforcement even with citizen patrols. I have been checked one time goose hunting in my whold hunting career in oregon.. 3 or 4 times fishing total. Thats pretty sad considering the number of days I have spent in the field. Poaching in southern oregon is rampant from what I have seen and been witness too. Calling for these huge sentences ins't going to work because the lack of enforcement won't do anything. Personally as much as I don't like poachers, I would rather see the guy who broke into my house in jail more than a poacher. the taking away privildges would be a good idea, but it wont do anything because without enforcement. I know a local coastie who has had his fishing liscene revoked for 3 years and yet I still see him fishing occasionally.

Yep, they are spread way to thin. I was turkey hunting in Heppner one year and left camp to go do a little evening roosting for the next morning. When I returned to camp there was a game officer looking at the hanging birds we killed that morning. We were the only turkey hunters around and he said he was stationed in the Dalles. He said when he drove up he was just sure he would find a violation....like one of them not tagged, or a tag not notched. He was really surprised to see everything was up to snuff. That was a little disappointing to know that he finds so many violations that he just expects that type of thing as the norm.

[No Fences]

Originally Posted by Thehunter

Kind of and interesting story for all you guys.
Me and 4 buddies where fishing in Astorie for sturgeon 3 years ago or so. A local charter came in with 6 or 7 sturgeon. The fish checker who works for ODFW was checking there catch. We clearly saw that 3 fish were well under the legal limit, which was 45 inches. We question it and he pretty much laughed at us.....POINT taken, i think they really don't give a rats butt.

so what do you do in the situation? leave? Take there fish? I think you would see a lot of this in hunting big game also. There are some bad game inforcement officers out there.

Unfortunately, the ODFW fish checkers can't cite you for illegal fish. At best, they can call the man and have him come down. These guys and gals are biologist types, not law dogs. But, he could've at least called the poachers in.

[Lilcorky]

If we are talking about taking animals at night I don't see many reports on the monthly activity report for the OSP where they are actually working hard to catch people doing that. They want to get up at 7:00 am to report to work at 8:00am and then go set up a WED on some logging road and bait someone to shoot it with a legal tag during a legal hunting season. You are not going to get the night hunters if you are not out there looking for them.

[ehunter]

The problem is they are streched too thin that is where if we had some cooridnated help it might be a help and it might just might keep a few people at home or the bar instead of taking up night time moon shinning if they thought some body might nab them.

Seriously it is very hard to hear a shot and get around to where the shot was taken if it is on state lands there are so many roads. Plus unles they have a animal with them I don't think it is ilegal to shoot at night, it might not be smart but what do they get a ticket for lack of brains. That is why spot is so effective on poachers. Maybe they need to get about 30 of them out there each night? We could volunteer to help with that.

[Big Billy]

Skein I think you have some great Ideas, I also think that some type of monetary reward for non hunters would help get more people involved, hikers campers etc.

[Big Billy]

If the bounty was high enough more people would be on the lookout and then have the poacher pay for the reward plus the fine just my .02

[Pond]

Originally Posted by Big Billy

Skein I think you have some great Ideas, I also think that some type of monetary reward for non hunters would help get more people involved, hikers campers etc.

The TIP (Turn In Poachers) program is non-specific on who get's a reward. I just submitted a couple of photographer's who gave us info on a couple of poachers they observed east of Bend. We caught the poacher's cause they called us.

Pond

ps: just gave a $500 check to a guy today, who called us on a cow elk kill opening weekend of rifle buck season.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by Big Billy

If the bounty was high enough more people would be on the lookout and then have the poacher pay for the reward plus the fine just my .02

That's exactly how the TIP program works. We ask for restitution to the TIP program for the reward that was paid out. So the Defendant has to pay back that program.

Pond

[flyin chrome]

Lilcorky,
I think you are sadly misinformed about efforts to catch night poaching! I have personally volunteered to assist OSP on many occasions and those officers are as dedicated a group as you will find. They are stretched extremely thin but do what they can. Bash on them all you want but it's not their fault you won't pay to have more officers in the woods more of the time! It is as simple as money. Want to change it? they have a volunteer program. Care to donate some money towards enforcement like oha? Or would you rather just bash the few hard working officers and complain that they are "baiting" you into breaking the law?....Give it up! Any idea how many dirt bags are caught at those scruffy shootings that don't have a tag? Is'nt that poaching?

Baiting you into breaking the law!!! Either you are a law abiding citizen or you are not! Now if they were using a jar of fishbaits eggs as bait it would be a different thing:smile:
Gil Muhleman

[RoscoeP]

I'm an OHA member and the TIP program seems to be working great for the small section of hunters it covers. I'm all for policing our ranks. As far as feeding the family there are a ton of other options out there besides killing a deer or elk with no tag or out of season. I don't think anyone out there really "needs" the meat badly enough to warrant it. If everyone with an empty freezer thought it would be OK to simply go out and kill a deer or elk anytime they needed, we would be in a bigger world of hurt than we already are. Throw the cougars and bear in the mix and there won't be anything left! JMHO

[Hunt'nFish]

How about tossing in a perferance point or two? Catch a deer poacher get a couple deer points. Catch an elk poacher get some elk points.
That would get ME motivated to spend a few nights out FOR SURE!
Hunt'nFish

[skein]

I agree that there are many many roads for a night-timer to sneak down, but - BUT - if you just happen to hear a shot AND see a rig and can get a description of it, and IF it's seen again, then OSP might just find them "interesting." There's been more than one poacher tracked down by just such evidence.

I think ANYTHING will help.

And by the way, thanks, Pond, for what you do.

Skein

[RoscoeP]

Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish

How about tossing in a perferance point or two? Catch a deer poacher get a couple deer points. Catch an elk poacher get some elk points.
That would get ME motivated to spend a few nights out FOR SURE!
Hunt'nFish

Darn good idea! I'm down with that for sure.... Something has to be done to motivate people to be more proactive.

[TonTo]

Originally Posted by Hunt'nFish

How about tossing in a perferance point or two? Catch a deer poacher get a couple deer points. Catch an elk poacher get some elk points.
That would get ME motivated to spend a few nights out FOR SURE!
Hunt'nFish

I believe WA introduced this a couple years back,as well as the reward you get a point,I was just thumbing through the regs though and can't seem to find it anywhere.Anybody else have the specifics?Of course in the regs I can't even seem to find how to report poaching,maybe a good start would be puting the number to call and info on the rewards in BIG BOLD PRINT,right on the inside of the front cover.

[TonTo]

OK,I found this at the WDFW web page ....looks like it's a 10 point bonus,and to think I blew my 9 points on this years elk draw.I could turn someone in and get right back into the game.

The Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife, Enforcement Program has instituted an on-line reporting page for fish/wildlife violations. This information encourages any citizen who witness a fish and wildlife offense to report the violation. Individuals that witness and would like to report a violation, can call toll-free 1-800-477-6224, or you can report the violation by the e-mail form below (Please note: E-mail will only be read during regular business hours, between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m, Monday - Friday. On-going violations needing immediate response should be phoned in to insure prompt response). Reports are confidential and are forwarded to a Fish & Wildlife Officer for investigation. Violator information that leads to an arrest, could be eligible for a cash reward ($50 for fish and $100 for wildlife), or hunting bonus points (10 points). Hunting bonus points give you a better chance for the special permit season. (Note: Depending on the case, you could receive a reward of up to $500