The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[Pilar]

Let me take this opportunity to thank the competent, highly trained officers of the Tillamook County Sherrifs for preventing me from attending IfishStock and for scaring my friend half to death.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Ugly~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One Officer in particular distinguished himself by not being able to tell the difference between a tired, happy fisherman with beer on his breath from the drunken menace behind the wheel that killed his brother officers recently.

Friends I was harrassed, embarrassed and incarcerated on Saturday afternoon after a hard day of crabbing. My friend and fishing partner Cat, was presented with a test of character. My intention was to share my catch and to meet and have fun with all of you who attended Jen and Bills party. At the last one I made a few friends and wanted to do more of the same.

Saturday was a special day for me and my friend. I was indoctrinating Cat in operating the boat. We played 'dead captain' all day. The idea being that she could take over running the boat and make it home from wherever if I should get hurt or ill. She operated the boat with good instincts and made very few mistakes. I was so impressed with my trainee that I decided to become a passenger and let her drive all day. She ran the bar, retrieved crab pots and did all the other things the person driving has got to do to keep the passengers safe and happy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Bad~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I decided to drink and had 3 adult beverages over the course of a 6 hour day. That was mistake number one. The last drink was about 30 minutes before we quit, that was mistake number two. I met the officers at the boat ramp and showed them my catch. Thinking nothing of it I went and got the truck and backed it down the ramp. The one thing my friend can't do is handle my 34 yr old pickup on the boat ramp. She can do everything else.

At this point the harrassment began. They wanted to administer a sobriety test. I failed it after spending several hours on a lumpy ocean trying to catch a salmon. I could scarcely walk straight.

Remember the truck was backed down the ramp and the boat ready to load.

They arrested me and took me to jail and left my terrified friend there to deal with it. She did not overtly show this fear until long after the ordeal was over and our anticipated evening of fun was ruined. I asked my captors if I could land the boat on the trailer but they wouldn't go for that. I explained my partners inexperience and her dillemma and they could have cared less.

So we went to jail. A breathalyzer was administered and surprise officer the convict was not intoxicated. I blew a 0.01, the limit is 0.08!

This troubled One Bullet Barney to no end.

The litany of charges against me recited during the ride to the slam evaporated like the smell of burning bacon at the fish camp breakfast. It seems the reason I was accosted to begin with is that I was mistaken for another boat (same color) who evaded the marine deputies on the bay earlier in the day by crossing the bar. Officer Wagner made the charge of BUII, but I didn't drive the boat all day, my friend was earning her dolphins.

Furthermore if the public safety officials were so concerned about my sobriety, why did they allow me to commit the crime of DUII while retrieving my trusty 'Pilar'??

HHHHHhhhhhhmmmmm????????

I'm guessing the answer is greed. BUII, DUII and LOUIII. Why not get the poor slob fisherman for everything he's got?

So hang your head in shame, one Bullet Barney.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The Good~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To my friends credit, she remained calm and mastered this difficult situation while the remaining Safety officials stood around harrassing other boaters and left her to her fate. She started the engine with a screw driver despite the untimely failure of the starter solenoid. She landed the boat on the trailer single handed. She then found someone to drive the truck up the ramp and gave them one of our two hard earned limits of crab for helping. Those folks only got a few and they were happy to get more. Then she got help from the hotel staff and came to the jailhouse and waited while some serious crow was served up for the public safety officials.

The Ugly ones then screwed around for a long time and used up any chance I had to be with the gang. Finally after 3 hours, I was booked and released and got to the party about when it was ending.

So thanks fellas. My partner is all too qualified on my boat now and you Tillamook boat cops need to see your proctologist about the location of your head.

The story ends with yours truly getting charged with DUII anyway,

even though I passed the breathalyzer
test and not by a little bit either.

Procedure, it was explained by a sheepish Jim Wagner. So if you see a metal cop zodiac coming towards you, pull down your drawers and bend over cause here it comes. Don't drink at all on Tillamook bay and make sure your boat has all the safety gear.

Remember you as a boater are rich and a source of income for those charged with protecting you. Don't get me wrong. Cops are good. But some cops are not. Some cops belong at Walmart preventing the homeless from sleeping in the dumpster.


Pilar out .............

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Jail Bird ]

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Pilar ]

[Johnny Mac]

It infuriates me to no end to see ones rights so blatantly violated in this country. Founding fathers would be rolling in their graves right now.

Sorry about your troubles pal. I dont know you from adam, but I can sure empathize.

[img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

.01=....mennace to society. Better humiliate him in front of his pals and peers.

[Pete]

A sad tale, Pilar. It was, however, nice to get requainted when you finally escaped the pokey. I would have enjoyed more of your time. Let's make up for the lost time on the water in the near future!

Perhaps, if you ever are caught in this situation again (which I suspect is an unlikely possibility) you should edit your signature line, for indeed, there are times when "the bend" (over) is not "your friend".

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Pete ]

[scrod]

Hey Pilar
You have to remember this state is being run by those that have a lobby such as MADD or a veto like our unrepresentative Gov. Kitz . There is no longer logical, sensible, discretionary action taken by the enforcement people (who I might add are frequently in the same position) because they are forced into idiotic rules. No one in political office will risk being an advocate for someone with alcohol on their breath, no matter how little. It is irritating but true. This isn't what we know as Oregon anymore it's more like a territory of pc California. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Mr. Fisherman]

John,

I just don't know what to say. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

Wish I'd have been there to help you out.

All I can say is that what comes around goes around and the big white Karma Dog is watching and waiting.

Breathe easy and gather data for the judge. Sounds like your out 12 crab at about $12.00 each $144.00 Thank you very much. Hard to prove any further tangible loss but it helps to have a little ground on your side.

Sometines it's just better to walk away but don't take any crap off their pile in the process.

Keep yer chin up John. At least you were out there with a competent, beautiful, salty partner. I was home doing yard work with my beautiful partner [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img].

When are we going fishing?

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Mr. Fisherman ]

[HarpMan]

Pilar, a real bummer. Your not alone, I have a fishing friend who was pulled over with his boat a-tow, he had had a few beers a few hours before. He was given the road side test and passed, they still took him into the big house and he blew way under the limit like yourself. They still managed to post his arrest in the Tillamook paper, unfortunately. His attorney had a field day. You might have Bill and Jeannie keep an eye for you as well. Again, what a bummer..

Wrong place at the wrong time John and that sucks! Geez .01 is probably less than someone who has just gargled with mouthwash. Sounds to me like you got "jobed" dude. MADD is a good organization but this looks to me like a bit of overzelousness on the part of the law. Too bad you had to miss out on most of the good time at Bill and Jennies.
Stew

[Joe Schwab]

Pilar,
Sorry to hear about your predicament. This is precisely why I will not touch alcohol when boating. I'm definitely not anti-drinking and have been known to have a few but when boats are involved it's nada. The police have been put in an impossible situation and bad mouthing them solves nothing. We as a society have labeled alcohol as the culprit and taken away personal responsibility.
Alcohol is evil, alcohol kills, alcohol breaks up familes, alcohol made me lose my job, on and on. Bull&*%$#. People screw up and then want to blame something. No police officer in his right mind will allow a visibly impaired person to drive away. Some lawyer will figure a way to make the officer responsible for anything that happens after an official police contact. I took a test one time with several other police officers. We each had several drinks and when we felt we would be driving impaired we took the BA. I blew an .02, way below the legal limit but no way would I have gotten behind the wheel. I also know that when I get on the water things affect me differently. Medication, alcohol add to the effect of sloppy water. I can understand your frustration and what you had to go through. There is no nice way to book people. It's called procedure. If police do not follow procedure they are subject to discipline. It's called a rock and a hard spot. I have known Deputy Wagner for over thirty years and can attest he is one of the good guys. Probably why he was trying to smooth things over. I don't undestand why other boaters could not have helped your friend at the ramp. Feel free to bend my ear anytime. You probably don't agree with everything I said here but I do hope the best comes out of this for you. I know from your past posts you are a conscientious person and very in tune with safe boating. Bad things do happen to good people.

[Pilar]

Capt. Hook, you are dead wrong. There is a purpose served here. Warning others about the evils of mindless bureacracy. Protecting others from the loss of thier hard earned cash is the only good that could possibly come of this horse crap. Harassing law abiding citizens is never OK under any circumstances. No one is ever glad to see the police and for good reason.

Let me say it again. Drinking on Tillamook bay exposes you to the possible loss of your hard earned cash. These guys have the very best of equipment and they want you to pay for it.

It is hypocracy of the first order. Drinking is legal. It can greatly enhance your outdoor experience. Responsible drinkers should not be stigmatized, harrassed and arrested.

Following procedure was the excuse cited for the millions of unmarked graves in Eastern Europe. Those officials were tried and hanged at Nuremburg. Hopefully we won't wait for the cattle cars before we wake up and protest the erosion of our basic rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Disrespect for the police is directly related to their lack of respect for the constitutional freedoms guaranteed ordinary citizens. Ask Rodney King about that. He was beaten and arrested for driving while black and impersonating a Pinata. Personally, I sacrificed 9 years of my life to defending those freedoms in the service. It pains me to no end to see our civil rights trampled in the name of law and order.

BTW I am simply reporting what happened. If you want to sit on your hands and pretend this stuff doesn't happen then do so.

[Pete]

For my own education I called the State Police to learn what the law is regarding drinking and boating. I learned that the law for boating is identical to the law for operating a motor vehicle; no open containers allowed, no intoxicated operators allowed. It certainly flies in the face of common practice, but it's worth being aware of the expectation.

[Silent Lucidity]

Drinking and boating just isn't a good idea anyway. To each their own, but drinking before operating any vehicle is asking for trouble.

And, unfortunately for you and your boating buddy, trouble answered.

[local_hooker]

"No one is ever glad to see ""the police"" and for good reason".

""These guys"" have the very best of equipment and they want you to pay for it".

"Disrespect for the police is directly related to ""their"" lack of respect for the constitutional freedoms guaranteed ordinary citizens".


These are broad statements pilar.

There are police on the water fishing next to you, that you have cheerfully shot the bull with.

There are police that you have drank beer with and cheer fully shot the bull with.

There are police who have tasted your killer smoked tuna.

sorry to hear about your bad experience, I hope my statements have not made me your enemy.

peace

Sean

Forgive the edit, friend. You are not my enemy. I never knew what those fellows did for a living and it never mattered anyway. BTW, You earn my respect by expressing your opinions and standing behind them.

Peace
Johnboy
[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: local_hooker ]

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: Pilar ]

[fishbait]

John,
sorry to hear about your troubles. On the good side, Kat got more of the Dead Captain game than planned for and came through with flying colors.....
To all others....Be forwarned about the Law in Tillamook.... This is not the first time I have heard simular stories

[WheresMyBobber]

Sorry to hear about that Pilar. It seems as though I can't even bring my boat into Tillamook County without being hassled by the Tillamook County Sherrif for one reason or another. I rarely drink while boating, and this has never been the issue. IMO they just seem to like the harrass out of towners. I've had the same problem with them in Nehalem Bay.

Yes, cops have a hard job and all that. I know many cops myself. But Tillamook seems to be different. Thankfully I've learned that the officer I had my worst run in with down there is no longer in law enforcement. It sounds like there may be more that should follow his lead.

[springer4you]

To All, The Oregon Laws for duii are very confusing. The Term duii stands for Driving Under The Influence Of Intoxicants.
This means that you can be under the influence of alcohol or drugs (legal or e-legal) The only reason Oregon Has a .08 limit
is that if you blow over.08 you will lose your licence for 90 days after the 30 day temporary licence expires. If blow under you will Not lose your licence for that 90 days, but you can lose it after you go to court, (if the judge is having a bad day.)Even if you blow under the limit you are considered under the influence in Oregon. And will be charged with DUII Or BUII. If you were to blow .00 the police than would ask for a urine sample or blood test.(if they really have grounds that you are under the influence of something other that alcohol) The laws in washington are different,the law is Driving while Intoxicated (DWI) you have to be over the .08 limit to even be charged if you are not over you go free. In Oregon it's a no win situation. Im not a cop, I have just learn this from the same bad experiences.
The law leads you to believe that you can drink 1 drink every hour and still be under the .08 limit. This is probably true, but it does not tell you that you will still be charged with the crime if your under.08 and usually not win the long court battle.
I feel for ya pilar and i hope everything turns out good for ya.Keep your spirits high and you will get through it.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Personally having 2 DUI's on record, I've never in over a million years, heard of anyone getting a DUI who blew under a .08, unless they were a minor. A .10 will result in a DUI. Unless the officer believed drugs to be involved, but if that were the case, the boat and vehicle would have been searched, and possibly impounded.

2 beers in 30 minutes for me = .16

36 in the span over 7 hours = .11

But my stories are different...lol

Sorry to hear of the charges, but the law is the law, and yes, someone has to do it.

If this is your first offense on record, and found guilty, will roughly equal about $700 in monetary fines.

In WA (and this is ingenius), we have deferred prosecution. I suggest hiring an attorney for sure (wish I'd went that route).

Also, file a complaint against each officer and log down the events leading up to your arrest, and release. This could be a determining factor in getting a lesser charge or getting the charge thrown out of court, if you feel you were wronged that badly. I'm not saying this will help, and your complaints may be laughed at and dismissed because it's your word vs. their's.

If anyone thinks, "oh but cops can't do this, can't do that, etc." You are f'n dead wrong. As far as I'm concerned, and cops know this; they pretty much can get away with anything. I'll tell ya a story or two, one day, along these lines.

[Pilar]

Apparently this officer is well liked and respected by some on this board. It was my bad luck that I met him on a bad day. I take a measure of pride in being above board, in helping others when I can and in teaching other folks that want to learn.

If you think twice before having an open container in your boat then my job is done.

I use my truck to take the empties to the store ... in the bed, in a tied bag. I have disowned several fishing buddies who want to drink or have open container in the rig while we drive for fishing. When I choose to drink at home I do so at the tavern at the end of my street or I ride the bus. Precautions all taken because of the broad powers that citizens have given public safety officials. All of what I have written here is my opinion and based on a very negative personal experience with a certain individual.

As far as fishing, hanging out or whatever with the police, you are absolutely right, Local_hooker. With very few exceptions I have no issue with any choice of employer (Police work is not one of them) by any individual. Having said that, I am somewhat judgemental but of character or observed undesirable behavior not by occupation.

I am seeking help for dealing with this issue. My boat was damaged, my friend greatly worsened her existing back injury while wrangling the boat by herself and we were embarrassed beyond measure.

The next time I meet the individual in question I will be polite, not provide probable cause and avoid contact if possible. Luckily I cannot be arrested for my thoughts.......

[MarkC]

Thanks for the info--maybe I can avoid making the same mistake (if that's what you want to call it).
If your story is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), I don't see why so many people are sideing with the cops--even the cops that are replying should be ashamed. You didn't break the law. Right is right--and you were in the right--period. I galls me to hear the "...well, thats just the way it goes" attitude. Sound like a blatant miscarrage of justice to me. Too bad there isn't some way to make the cop feel the same level of humiliation that you must of went through.

And yes...sometimes I like to crack open a cool one when I'm on the water. Apparantly, that makes me an evil person.

Mark

[SlabQuest]

Our current political climate places DUI up there with the most serious crimes. MADD has done their job so well that you will recieve less punishment for burgulary than DUI. Where I live, a car thief has to be caught and arrested 7 times before he sees any jail time. Who would you rather have approching you in the opposite lane: Pilar with 2 beers under his belt, or a carload of wild teens (knowing there is minimal penalty for their actions) speeding in a stolen car? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

I certainly do NOT condone DUI. I just would like to see something that resembles balance in our crime & punishments.

[Silent Lucidity]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SlabQuest:
[QB]Who would you rather have approching you in the opposite lane: Pilar with 2 beers under his belt, or a carload of wild teens (knowing there is minimal penalty for their actions) speeding in a stolen car? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that we're not quite on track here. Pilar said that he had three adult beverages, which in my book can be most anything with alcoholic content. I would imagine that if they were beers that he would have said beer, though.

Nevertheless, an intoxicated driver is far more dangerous to others than your common car thief. I nearly lost someone very close to me to a drunk driver, so maybe I'm a bit biased. Trust me on this one, I'd rather lose my car to a car thief than a loved one to a drunk driver.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Mark, it's quite simple, really.

I'm really the CEO of a Fortune500 company. Now do you get it? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

The only fact at hand is this one person telling their side of the story (not saying it isn't true), but if you believe everything you read on the web, especially on a fishing forum board, then I have some primo property I'd like to sell you dirt cheap.

[Phish_on]

I can't find any reference to open-container prohibition. Can anyone quote me chapter and verse on that? Last time I was boarded by the Coast Guard there was half a beer in the drink caddy, I was not arrested. Though I was warned about the .08 ...

Yes the whole law-and-order Gestapo approach is way out of hand. They've got the guns. Think about who you VOTE FOR.

Pilar, talk to an attorney - for sure. But if you smelled like alcohol and your sea-legs failed the "field sobriety test" that gives the PIGS all the "probable cause" required for your ration of doodoo [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[SlabQuest]

Talking on a cellphone and driving is as dangerous as drinking and driving - both very bad. But I'll take Pilar with the .01 in the opposite lane anyday over the fleeing car thief.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: SlabQuest ]

[poshie]

A long story made short many moons ago....this happened at the Garibaldi marina. 17 year old son ticketed for burned out taillight after pulling boat out of water. Had to go to court in Tillamook. The morning of the date, we had to cancel the court date. About 8:15 a.m. I called the court, had phone difficulty but was able to get an operator (with an ID #) get through to a court person (nameless) who DID NOT pass on the message. The next correspondence he got was a SUSPENDED licence
notice from the DMV for failing to show up in court and insurance cancelled because licence was suspended. after WE DROVE DOWN FOR THE NEXT COURT, the judge was ill or something to that effect so it was postponed.. and after one more drive, the cop didn't show up and the case was DISMISSED..The whole scenario was unbelievable, costly in time and gas and stressful..
And unless you don't mind being embarrassed,
don't get caught at that launch..two years ago I watched them keep a guy visible for about an hour and a half walking a straight line and what ever goes with it..while a child and lady (his boat)also watched..He was taken eventually in the police car...
They are tough in Tillamook...

[Pilar]

It was in fact beer. 3.2% I felt like not elaborating on my adult beverage of choice. As has been pointed out numerous times, boating and drinking are not compatible.

Another point which I will belabor one more time. As the 'Dead Captain' my role was to be a piece of baggage during the whole qualifying process. You know, dead of a heart attack. My friends daughter has expressed concern about her Mom taking on Big Blue and surviving the experience. Hence my efforts to 'qualify' her as my replacement pilot. My daughter is going through this process as well. I was loading the boat at the ramp only because;

1) I was not intoxicated by any measure.

and

2) My friend lacks experience dealing with a standard shift on the boat ramp.

My intent was to allow Cat to drive the boat, truck and trailer to the unload point and then go to the party. Can you say 'designated driver'?

As a rule, not broken in 10 years or more, I never drive an automobile after becoming even slightly impaired by drinking, ever. I truly sympathize with those who have suffered a loss at the hands of rampant drunkenness and irresponsible individuals.

I urge you to 'qualify' your habitual boating partners. It might someday save your life or theirs ..... What would they do if you the driver fell in the water or blew a head gasket? Could they put out a fire or make a simple repair? Do they know how to summon help on the radio? Can they start the boat and navigate it home?

Think about it.

Yes, y'all you get my side of the story. It is not in the interest of the public safety officials to acknowledge this matter in a public forum. I'm doing it to possibly keep just one other person from getting the shaft and to raise awareness of the inconsistencies in enforcing the rules.

[4Salt]

Phish on,

PIGS? Hopefully that was meant to be facetious, and light-hearted in some bizzare way? Otherwise, dude, put down the bong and come home from the Viet-Nam War protest, the 60's ended 31 years ago! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[scrod]

Yes friends drinking and driving any motorized vehicle is against the law. That means having a beer while on your riding lawnmower in your pubicly accessable front yard is against the law. Now, I have taken to not drinking any alcohol except at home when I'm not leaving but it seems absurd to me to be at risk when others in my boat want to have a beer while I'm the pilot and I have to tell them NO. These rules are not just and the discretion of police officers are not in question. We don't need people driving under the influence, it's not safe. The problem with the law as it stands doesn't allow for the reasonable situation like Pilar's that puts both honoable citizens and police in a no win situation. We all know "sober" idiots and "drunken" fools are out there but the legislation only follows the money. Pilar, you got the bad end of the stick. Go to court and hopefully you can get a reasonable judge that doesn't have a torch to bear.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I find this thread quite interesting, and it makes for some good reading. It would have been easy for you to keep this story to yourself and nobody would be the wiser to judge you good or bad. I could have kept my mouth shut about burning down the smoker/fence/tree's/house etc... but this board is about sharing and we all should learn from others experiences. (now quit poking fun at me about the smoker incident [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] )

Johnboy, once the officer arrest you, he has to write you a ticket. Officers do not have the authority to un-arrest anybody in a DUII case. The DA has to dismiss the case, hence you get a ticket even after you blow less than legal. Once the officer arrested you for DUII he had to write you a ticket for the incident. No "take backs" for the field officer.

For those of you that want to trash talk and sue and anything else the officer in this case, you are off your rocker. Pilar comes in with alchohol on his breathe, he cannot pass a field sobriety test for what ever reason. Anybody who is responsible enough to hold a police officer job has to arrest the indivudual. If a person cannot pass a field test and smells of beer, then goes out and kills somebody in a driving accident after an officer lets them go everbody would be saying what a bad guy the officer is, and they would be right. There is more than one way to arrest an individual, I hear your story but didnt hear anything any officer wouldnt have done. The captain of the OSP could have arrested you for a training mission and I doubt it would have been much different. Once the cuffs go on, there isnt much left but embarrasment.

Now if John can only convice his lady friend that it was all planned for the final test to the dead captain test he will be home free. Well maybe that wouldnt go over well, she might get mad over a plan leaving her at dockside with a rig on the ramp. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] scratch the planned idea.

My boat rule of no alchohol is simple, understandable and works for me. Some disagree, but I plan on getting home to my loved ones one. I will stack the deck in my favor if I have to. If somebody has to drink in a boat, you wont be with me.

Glad you are Ok and all that is left is the complaining, educating and that little bit of egg on your ego. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Kenia]

Pilar

You got shafted big time!! Portland has some
real nasty lawyers who would love to take your case. Get one and go for it!!

Kenia

[Phish_on]

4Salt,
well I got your attention anyway [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

some cops are pigs.
sorry ...

There is no bong to put down. My GOVERNMENT protects me from myself!

[MarkC]

1)THE REEL HEY_YALL--I did say "If your story is true." But the man did say he blew a .01--which is a bit more definitive than "I was sober in my opinion" or "I only had a few."

2)Bait O' Eggs--I would argue that there are varying degrees of "alcohol on the breath" and anyone who blows a .01 doesn't smell much (I will consider myself an expert in this area). I would think that as a police officer you would be able to tell the difference between a faint odor and being looped.

3) I'm not trying to make enemies, just stating my opinion (which I belive is still my right, unless they've since instituted some new arbitrary tolerance levels).

Peace to all,

Mark

[Robert]

Cops suck. They are never around when you need them. Then your are obeying the law and the jerks give you a ticket for know reason. That sucks. I heard the judge down in Tillamook is a real witch, to save money on the insurance get a good lawyer and take it to court.

[fishchaser]

Well welcome to the club. The Tillamook Co. Con Club. there you are guily until proven innocent. Get a lawyer and fight it and fight it hard. They will try to make a myrthr out of you, and hang you from the highest yardarm. GOOD LUCK [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[NEUTRON]

Roy, good take. I usually bring 1 beer every time out, sometimes hand it out for the first fish. The open container practice is going to stop from now on, just ain't worth it.

[Silent Lucidity]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert:
Cops suck. They are never around when you need them. Then your are obeying the law and the jerks give you a ticket for know reason. That sucks. I heard the judge down in Tillamook is a real witch, to save money on the insurance get a good lawyer and take it to court.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, I would imagine that these officers were there for that family of six when they were needed. And I don't think that THEY suck.

Use your head before you post such blatantly STUPID comments like the one you said above. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[SlabQuest]

If I get anything out of this string, I would like for it to be an answer to phish on's question about open containers on boats. I am under the impression that it is OK on boats (and motorhomes). Only the operator's condition matters. An open container law for boats would certainly increase litter.

It seems like there are always towns that over-enforce laws (revenue enhancement?). Other towns (like Seiku) leave folks alone (within reason). Which towns are safer?

[swampy]

Tough break , Pilar. You live and learn . I learned I won't allow beer on my boat anymore . As you suggested , you want your partner to come through in a pinch . It's in everyones interest to stay sober out there . Congrats to your first mate for stepping up to the challange . Hang in there . This is one of those things that won't seem so big someday.

[Johnny Mac]

I really just came to terms with what a no win situation law enforcement is in. Its funny almost. I agree with pretty much 90% of whats been said here so far. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, its humiliating. Yeah, cops suck when you get a ticket. Yeah, they are just doing what they are prescribed to do with their job responsibilities. Yeah, beauracracy sucks. Yeah, laws are made for the lowest denomination but a good egg gets spoiled from time to time (that wasnt mentioned, but I thought I'd throw it in the soup [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]). And yeah to many more things already stated.

Bottom line is, yeah, those cops are in a bad spot between laws and legislature, and the people they have an affect on. I'd hate to be a cop. I'd also hate to be a cop that busts me for a stupid law. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] (or a law that I personally have a problem with due to an infringement on my rights or being unconstitutional in the first place) Because "at the moment" he is the one who gets the heat for it "in the moment". Thats it. Period. I dont think each individual cop "sucks" or is a bad person, but I think much of what they enforce sucks and is bad. That makes them as a whole body (stereotype being made here).....sucky [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Thats the breaks. And if they dont like it, they should simply get a new job because that stereotype will never go away when there are silly laws out there. In fact, it will get worse. Back in the days when laws were just, being a cop would be a heroic proffession. Now, its destined to be something much less desireable.

Just a couple cents to throw into the mix. Should have close to a grand by now with all the pennies flyin around. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I think it should go to the golf tournament. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Robert]

Hey lucidity, I never said I wanted to see a cop hurt. It is very said what happened to those officers.

My point is there was a never a cop when my parents car gotten broken into, or where someone broke into the house. Then some cop gave me 175$ ticket for not stopping before turning into a road from a gas station. The cop was full of it and he knew it. He did not have the guts to show up to court when he found outI had a witness. They have never doen anything to help me. They have only caused me problems for no reason.
The Portland cops stink because they cannot find the person who killed the girl at University of Portland. They are to busy writing traffic tickets to meet their darn qouta.

[Pete]

Earlier I posted the response I got when I asked about the legality of an open container .... there is certainly some disagreement even among law enforcement officials. I have yet to hear from the State Marine Board Law Enforcement Unit ... I'll post their reply when I get it.

But get compare the following sources, particularly the last one!

From SEA magazine: Hold that beer!

Last year, the Oregon state "saturation patrol" arrested a record number of boaters -- 250 -- for Boating Under the Influence (BUI). This number more than doubled the 121 arrests made in 1998.

Although there is no evidence that boaters are drinking more Bloody Marys or margaritas, the fact is that law enforcement is cracking down on Oregon waterways. According to Pat Rowland, law enforcement training coordinator for the Oregon State Marine Board, alcohol plays a role in about 50 percent of the boating accidents nationwide.

"While it is not illegal in Oregon to have an open container of alcohol in a boat, it is unlawful to operate a boat while intoxicated," Rowland said. "That’s why we are training our officers to recognize alcohol and drug impaired boaters."

The Oregon "saturation patrol" operates on Green Peter and Foster reservoirs; Lake Bill Chinook and Simtustus; Lake of the Woods and Lost Creek Lake; Lake Owhyee and Detroit Reservoir.

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Open Container Mandate Link

Boating in Oregon ... no BUII arrests in Tillamook County in 2000! Check out the stats on the linked page: BoatOregon BUII Stats

You don't suppose there's some pressure to conform, do you?

[Pilar]

Easy Robert! Use a little more wit and a little less sledge hammer to trash the authorities. The unavailable when needed police is a stereotype. Not that I did any better telling them to see their proctologist.

Sure property crimes are important to the people deprived of thier property. Seldom is the property recovered or the thief caught. It is just another reason to own a big loud dog and a safe. You would hope the officials would come when called for a gunfight or stolen car and I bet they would.

The point of this thread is not to trash the man, I did that for you, thank you very much. The point is that some rules are unevenly enforced and practices which quite a few take for granted could land your butt in jail.

I think the way to 'get' the police is to deprive them of cash flow. Don't screw up and you get to keep your treasure. Think about what happened to me before you become Captain Barleypop and roll up to the boat ramp, no worries. Think about the forfeiture rules which are common in some counties like Benton for example.

DUII there and your rig goes to the man.

Read the discussion board rules, Robert. Break out the wit, I could use a good laugh.

[Silent Lucidity]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Robert:
My point is there was a never a cop when my parents car gotten broken into, or where someone broke into the house.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm going to assume that you weren't really inferring that police officers should hang around and guard your house or car and that you were just asked to file police reports. Yep, same thing happened when both things happened to me, too. And that is what I expected. They don't have the resources to investigate every breakin, when there are people causing physical harm to others. Theft sucks, but they're not going to call in the FBI because you got your Brandy Moore CD's stolen.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They have never doen anything to help me. They have only caused me problems for no reason.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I certainly hope you never have to call them when you really need them. And if you do, make sure when they get there that you tell them how worthless they are.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The Portland cops stink because they cannot find the person who killed the girl at University of Portland. They are to busy writing traffic tickets to meet their darn qouta.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great quote, Kojak. I'm sure with your well-honed murder investigation skills they would be able to crack this elementary case before you get to the end of that Tootsie Pop.

"The Man" isn't keeping you down. It's YOU.

[Robert]

You all have a good point, cops job is not to just wait for the bad guys. I am sorry for lumping cops together as all bad. I know there are few bad cops, not all cops. It is unfair and wrong to group them all as jerks. I am sure that they to have bad days like everyone else, which will cause them to be a bit on the mean side. It is just hard to see cops as anything but bad after getting a crummy ticket. I will not rip on the cops here anymore, but that does not mean that I will not cringe when I see them on the road. The murder thing is just making me nervous because I go there and really want to see the bad person be caught.

I am very sorry for being a smart allack. It was wrong to lump all cops together. This is a great place to get fishing information. I will not instigate any more stuff so this stays a nice and good place to get fishing information, unlike other websites which maker fun of everyones question.

[Joe Schwab]

1. I will not give "Robert" the courtesy of a reply.
2. Pilar, I am not sitting on my hands over your misfortune. If you are found innocent of any wrongdoing I hope you get full justice. My point was that society, not the police have become so paranoid about crime, drugs, guns and other problems such as alcohol that they have demanded zero tolerance. The kid with the butter knife at school, ZAP! The boat with the residue of M.J., ZAP! The teen with the odor of beer on his breath, ZAP! Come on, if you think cops sit around thinking up ways to get in your pocketbook, think again. Most of them have bills to pay, kids to raise, other things to think about. They really don't concern themselves with how much a ticket is going to cost the person they issue it to. That is up to the court and the judges. this issue of drinking and boating was hammered home in a letter from the Charterboat industry to all licensed Captains. A charter boat Captain was fined and had his license suspended for "allowing" a paying customer to consume "several" drinks over the day and then dive off the boat to cool off. The Captain had no knowledge the drinking was affecting anyone. The customer was safely retrieved but the Captain was held liable. Go ahead, have your drinks, its legal, its fun, everyone does it, its your constitutional right. Like I said before, not on my boat. If that is sitting on my hands, I'm guilty.
There are many professions I would not care to be associated with or part of, but I respect the people that do. Tillamook County is no better or worse than any other part of this great country.
3. The "pig" reference really is a joke, right? Whoever made that reference, oh well.
Kids say really stupid things when they first start talking too. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[BUGLEMAN]

That sucks Pilar. What a Mate your friend has turned out to be though - truly good. I am very impressed with the screwdriver trick.

Better luck in the future. Thier captain deserves a phone call about the irresponsible police work at the dock. You deserve a letter of apology. You were truly harrassed.

It probably isn't worth it.

Didn't have time to read the whole thread but who were the officers in question. For future reference.

Take it easy, [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Kevin

[Robert]

So Captain Hook, have you never gotten an unfair ticket by a cop? Being a cop is hard and dangerous work, so I am sorry for saying bad things about them.
Maybe if you had been given a ticket you thought you did not deserve, which the judge agreed that you were not wrong you would find yourself stereotyping cops. The stereotyping is unfair but hard to not do because of a single bad experience with a cop.

[parker]

Pilar,

If you haven't done so already, seek legal advice about the DUI charge. Sounds highly bogus to me. Follow that up with an harassement lawsuit. Just because the cops carry a badge a gun does *NOT* give them a right to harass you.

I'd sue the ******.

Parker

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: parker ]

[Salmonator]

Pete, no open containers in a boat is new news to me....

[Hummingbird]

Pilar,
Sorry to hear about your Troubles with Tillamook Co. sheriff. It seems really funny they start harrassing people just after the Garibaldi City Cops are Run out of town by their Citizens. Now TCSD has more than they know what to do with. Maybe upset a bit too boot.What you describe in your post was 3 beers in 6 hrs. and you weighing in at say a light 225 lbs. And blowing a .01% BAC!!! **** RIGHT !!! you got a case. When I first stated dating my little Gal , she was pulled over one evening and put through the same treatment they would do to an serial Killer. She had never in her life had a ticket. They took to 1 holding cell and then 2 hrs. later moved her to the Hotel. She blew a .02% BAC.Funny thing happened after 2 weeks of her worrying. She wen to court and it wasn't even up on the roster .DISMISSED!! Well , I'll bet you a fishing trip over this that the same thing will happen to you. If it is dismissed, you should really talk to a professional lawyer aboutthe False arrest and Harrassment. My finding with the Law is you can sue city Hall but you probably will never win. By the way , The cop that arrested my wife was also a GUNG HO !! rookie wet behind the ears. If you do have to go to court , ask for another Judge if Judge Christensen is still there , She's the hanging judge and don't necessarily beleive in opinions or explanations. Hell it's more money in their Coffers if they convict.Good Lick and sorry about your troubles. If you need a good Lawyer , let Mr. Fisherman know and I'll give you a **** good one in Hillsboro. I really think you need some assistance or they will walk all over you. Funny how a 2 hr. event turns into a 100 page report full of LIES and more Lies. Just my .02 cents .Good LUCK .You may need it. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[OneLastCast]

Sorry to hear your horror story Pilar.

But I have to agree with Capt. Hook, I too know Deputy Wagner and he is one of the most reasonable Law Enforcement officers I know. I have always considered him one of the "good" ones.

OneLastCast

[KrystalFlash]

Jeez, I don't even know where to begin...

I just wish that I had been there to help. This is totally outrageous. I hate it when I hear of a tale such as this. It does my heart an immense amount of pain to hear that it has happened to my friend.
If there is anyone that knows...REALLY knows of anyone that can help to right this wrong...PLEASE I Implore you to email John. He does not deserve to be treated in such an inappropriate manner.
The man has been known to cause much hate and discontent on the water in a "Kneejerk" reaction to wrongs done to them. I think that this is the case here. I hope that this can be undone. I would hate to see anything BAD come of this.
There as soooo many people that are out there breaking laws and you have some "K-Mart Cowboy" police officer pulling some junk like this.. What an extreme INJUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!!

If you can help...PLEASE DO!!

Team 'Double Gaynor'
Team 'Pilar'
Team 'NO WAY?'
Team 'Bad Cop, no Donut!'
Team 'FURIOUS'

[Floater]

Oregon Boater's Handbook
Oregon State Marine Board
Page 12
Alcohol and Boating
"There is no open container law for boaters, but the Marine Board strongly advises boat operators and passengers to wait until they get back to shore before consuming alcohol."

Just a couple trains of thought here:
Does anyone these days see an officer on the road and think, uh oh then look in their rearview mirror?
Are we afraid of them or are we guilty of something?
Are we usually happy to see them?
I've had my speeding tickets before and I deserved them.
Why can't the police, "un-arrest" someone?
Why couldn't they have put Pilar in the car then helped get the rig off the ramp?
Protect and serve, right?
Tough job, yes. Now once we were 'protected' from the possibility of someone driving drunk, they need to switch back into the 'serve' mode.


NO ONE who has been drinking will skipper my boat! But, if my wife wants to have a beer while trolling, it's legal and it's ok with me.
GOD help the person who operates a machine (plane, boat, semi, auto, etc.) and hurts my family!

[Capin' Dan]

Hey Pilar, Sorry to hear about your woes. I believe that the state police and local police do in fact target sportsman in Tillimook and at Hammonds and tackle time. I try and stay as far away from them as possible. It has gotten so that I drop a person off at the dock and then motor my boat in the bay until the trailer is backed down. Then I trailor my boat and then leave the ramp area as fast as I can. they just look and search for the littlest thing to which they can get you for. YES THEY ARE AFTER YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY. I wish they would go after thieves, rapist, and murders ect...
Sorry it happened and tight lines.

Dan! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[Pete]

Hey, lets not be inflamatory. Last year there were ZERO BUII arrests in Tillamook County. How can anyone reasonably say "I believe that the state police and local police do in fact target sportsman in Tillimook"? The police have a job to do. They may not always do their job well, but they are not maliciously targeting citizens.

[Pilar]

Hey Pete. I must disagree with you about the boat ramp checks. There are a few places that I can count on meeting law enforcement at the ramp. Garibaldi, Hammond and Newport. They want to play one fish, two fish, black fish, blue fish. They always count life jackets and check fire extinguishers and whistles. And if you dont have it all in one sock, you will get a ticket.

Is that targeting boaters? Yer **** skippy it is!

[AuntyM]

A lot of people are making statements that may or may not be correct. Unless you have specific knowledge about the budget needs and processes in a particular community,
there is no way to know for certain whether or not Law Enforcement is targeting a segment of population for revenue enhancement purposes. I don't see this as malicious intent. It is just an ugly fact of life.

Some jurisdictions in Washington saw greatly increased revenue from fines and fees in our communities, post Initiative I-695. (Limiting license tab fees on vehicles) It was well publicized that Law Enforcement was stepping up efforts. Fines and fees were increased, and Judges became far less tolerant.

Pilar’s comments are more than likely, closer to the truth than many of you are comfortable with. I think Pilar is probably right on track.

Stay involved in your communities. Attend public meetings. Let your Elected Officials know when you think public servants are overstepping. Write letters and VOTE!

If you fish, have nice gear and own a boat, it is an easy assumption on the part of Law Enforcement that you can afford to pay for a questionable infraction. How many people just pay and keep their mouths shut? Do you really think the average criminal can pay? Of course not. The money has to come from those who can. Look at the big picture folks! The laws were designed to protect us, but can easily be used to build a bigger Law Enforcement bureaucracy.

Sorry for getting political.
[img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[OneLastCast]

Hey!
Let's teach Tillamook County a lesson. Let's show those good old boys what kind of power we have.
I suggest that for the next two months nobody, and I mean nobody, who doesn't live in Tillamook County, go to fish any river or bay in Tillamook County. Let's show those loco locals what it would be like if nobody came down to fish their rivers and bays. That way the "Tillamook Co. Con Club" won't be able to "harass" people and take their money to support the police state that they have developed that preys on people from out of county.
Let's start this boycott this weekend. I will monitor the situation from my boat and will keep the board updated on the affect on the local economy. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Thanks for your post Pilar, you got corked and as BOE stated you didn't have to make it public.

Now.....on to the boycott.

OneLastCast

[boater]

this thread is unreal, on one hand we have people ******** about having there boat checked for safety items and on other threads you have the people telling everyone to be safe and have the correct safety items, i have no problem with them checking my boat and yes i have been checked by the coast guard and the cops and no ive never got a ticket, why ? because i know what to have on my boat to be legal. if you do get a ticket at a ramp for not having the correct safety equipment it`s your own dumb fault. i have a problem with people that think it`s wrong to do, if they save one life by giving some idiot a ticket they have done there job, also, i have had run in`s with the law and have gotten tickets, my imediate response was, man that cop was an a$$hole, but after thinking about it i realized it was my own dumb fault for putting myself in the situation to get the ticket. go ahead and blast me, i`m used to it.

You know boater, I don't think anyone really feels like blasting anyone tonight. Think about what occured today and your opinion on this thread is really pretty insignificant.
Stew

[local_hooker]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the fines from traffic infractions go to court costs, diversion programs, duii classes, etc...

Law enforcement budgets come from property taxes. Haven't you ever voted on a public safety levy??

Yes the state and local police hammer the ramps for buii's. For the same reason we go 30 miles out for tuna...cause that's where the tuna is.

You the tax paying voter decided buii was wrong and asked your legislators to make it illegal, and have the cops enforce it. If you feel you were wrong and want to get loaded while boating then go back to your legislators and reverse the law. Alchol was legal, then illegal, then legal again...so there is already presidence...good luck.

I may seem pro cop, but I'm really pro common sense.

I hope everyone who posted an opinion pays property taxes, and votes. Otherwise your singin' it, but not bringin' it!

Later

Sean

[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: local_hooker ]