Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader - www.ifish.net

Go Back   www.ifish.net > Ifish Fishing and Hunting > Ifish Hunting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2007, 11:37 AM   #1
dla
Tuna!
 
dla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 1,759
Default Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

I plan on using it mainly in Idaho, because Idaho gives much more hunting opportunity for a standard "A" tag. But Oregon and Idaho pretty much agree on muzzleloader specifications.

I don't want to spend more than $300 - so please don't suggest $500+ rifles. A sidelock percussion cap muzzleloader is so simple that I'm seriously looking at the sub-$200 Traditions line.

I'm a little confused by the "2X diameter" rule. I want to hunt Elk and I don't want to use round-balls as they are too light. I would prefer a 500gr chunk of lead "zooming" along at 1200fps, which I can do in Idaho, but not sure I can do with Oregon's "2x diameter" rule (Idaho was much, much smarter than Oregon). I already shoot a Guide Gun, so I'm not bothered by recoil.

I know I'm being a bit narrow-minded, but I've already searched this forum. So please don't be too put off

__________________
My Webpage
dla is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-26-2007, 12:05 PM   #2
James in Idaho
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pocatello, ID
Posts: 3,347
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Check Mid South Shooters Supply, look for a Lyman Trade Rifle (made by Investarms (?)) in .54, you'll be set. Has a 1 in 48 twist so it can handle slugs and roundballs. It is not as accruate with r/bs as a dedicated round ball shooter (1 in 60 or so twist), but good enough for practice and deer sized game. I have the same gun built from a kit (got on sale from Dixie Gun works I think), usually shoot r/b out of it (two antelope to its credit). The Lyman Great Plains is a little more than $300 (but less than $400 at Mid South), it comes in a r/b version (Great Plains rifle) or a slug gun (Great Plains Hunter) model. Haven't shot the Hunter, but the standard is an excellent and very accruate r/b gun. All are made in the same place, as is the Cabela's traditional muzzleloader.
__________________
James

Uncork the Snake!
James in Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 04:32 PM   #3
dla
Tuna!
 
dla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Thanks James

The Lyman Great Plains Hunter is a good looking rifle and has good reviews. Also comes in a 1:32 twist, which I like. There's also a DeerStalker series that has a 24" barrel. How much does barrel length effect velocity? Some of these rifle barrels are pretty long - fine if I want to beat something to death
__________________
My Webpage
dla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 06:47 PM   #4
buckhunter
Tuna!
 
buckhunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Gaston Or.
Posts: 1,636
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Head out to The Powder Horn in Forest Grove. They won't steer you wrong. My . BH
__________________
You only need two tools in life - WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use duct tape.
buckhunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 09:21 PM   #5
gottafish
King Salmon
 
gottafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Troutdale
Posts: 8,110
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by dla View Post
Thanks James

The Lyman Great Plains Hunter is a good looking rifle and has good reviews. Also comes in a 1:32 twist, which I like.
I have this rifle and its a ***!! I just bought mine from sportsmens and it sucks. Ive already have had to replace the factory nipple cause cap would not fit. The Sights on this rifle are not worth the metal they were made from the front blade is so thick its useless I had to go to the lyman site and get new sights for this rifle.My cabelas Hawken out shoots it with a 1-48 twist. and the fit and finnish is better. go with the cabelas hawken in 54 or find a TC renegade and slap a green mt barrel on it.
gottafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2007, 10:19 PM   #6
Ol' KL
Chromer
 
Ol' KL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 890
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for, but I bought a very reasonably priced "In-line" type ML from BiMart last year.

Someone told me once to buy only "White's or Knight's." The one I bought was a previous years' Knight's. I think I only payed about $170.00 for it. They had the current model for about another 75.00 bucks. I bought a .50 cal.

I have an old side-hammer .54, and I'd never go back. The Knight is so much easier to clean. That old style rifle stock kicks me in the cheek everytime I let it go. I could take it, but it sure wasn't any fun. In my experience, the in-line ignition is also a lot more reliable.

I shoot buffalo bullets, and the gun seems to be very accurate. I can bust a soda can just about every time at 50yrds. With iron sights, that's good enough for me.

I'd be very interested to hear about your Idaho ML experience...PM me if you like.
Ol' KL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:31 AM   #7
gottafish
King Salmon
 
gottafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Troutdale
Posts: 8,110
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' KL View Post
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking for, but I bought a very reasonably priced "In-line" type ML from BiMart last year.

.
Thats like fly fishing with night crawlers!!! All "in-line's" should be burned. LOL Muzzle loader season is for the old ways not no dang new fangled inline crapper capper Whats next the cast from realtree and a scoped inline. Match locks are where its at BABY!!

Seriously all kidding aside
Part of the black powder experiance is the beauty of a old styled hand crafted piece of art. take a look at this thread and I think you may understand where I come from. If I wanted to hunt with an in-line I have a 7mm http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fu...hp?tid/213265/
gottafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 06:41 AM   #8
Lured In
Sturgeon
 
Lured In's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 3,904
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

CVA has some very reasonably priced sidelocks.

I believe it is there deerstalker or Mountain hunter that should fit the bill. As someone mentioned above, the stock sights on some of these gun are pretty basic, so you may want to order a new set after seeing what comes on the gun.

I personally shoot a Cabela's Sportsterized Hawken in .54 and love it, but it is more than you are looking at.
__________________
Dr. Pepper Pro Staff
"Hunt and fish, hunt and fish...there must be more to life than this...but I hope not."
Lured In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 07:17 AM   #9
Cornbread
Tuna!
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lakeside, Montana
Posts: 1,710
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

I have Thompson/Center Black Mountain Magnum all I had to do to make it legal was take off the fiber glass in the open sites and put a little epoxy in the holes then after it was dry add a couple of dabs of white paint over the epoxy and presto I had an Oregon legal traditional cap lock. Mine is .50 cal with 1/28 twist so you can't shoot round balls out of it but bullets work great. I think they run about 299.
__________________
There's plenty of room for all God's creatures.....right next to the mashed potatoes.
Cornbread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 07:25 AM   #10
Dave Smith
Sturgeon
 
Dave Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dirka-Dirka-stan
Posts: 3,857
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

You could make me an offer on my Knight MK-85. It's a sweetie and would be nice for it to get some more kill notches on it now that I've become (God forbid!) a bowhunter- he he
Dave
Dave Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 08:35 AM   #11
dla
Tuna!
 
dla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Smith View Post
You could make me an offer on my Knight MK-85. It's a sweetie and would be nice for it to get some more kill notches on it now that I've become (God forbid!) a bowhunter- he he
Dave
I didn't know that Knight made anything other than inlines.
__________________
My Webpage
dla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 08:41 AM   #12
luckyr
Chromer
 
luckyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washougal
Posts: 989
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Are inlines illegal in Oregon for hunting?
luckyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 08:53 AM   #13
Quack Attack
Steelhead
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Salem
Posts: 398
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

A knight MK-85 is an inline, and a darn fine one at that. So what if the nipple is on the back rather than the side... It still fills from the front and shoots big chunks of lead real slow
I shoot a knight MK-86, and before that a Knight MK-85. Both great rifles for a low price.

I also shot a TC Renegade before that and really liked it, however the TC was a beast to clean compared to the inlines that clean like a regular rifle.

Knight also used to use timney triggers, not sure if they still do, but they are a very nice trigger, and fully adjustable.
__________________

Quack Attack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 10:51 AM   #14
dla
Tuna!
 
dla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckyr View Post
Are inlines illegal in Oregon for hunting?
They are illegal for muzzleloader-only seasons.

Washington, Oregon, and Idaho have implemented new rules restricting the technology that can be used in a muzzleloader.
__________________
My Webpage
dla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 11:26 AM   #15
Ni!
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Roundabout
Posts: 2,577
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by dla View Post
They are illegal for muzzleloader-only seasons.

Washington, Oregon, and Idaho have implemented new rules restricting the technology that can be used in a muzzleloader.
Here's the definition of a muzzleloader from the 2008 Oregon regs. Page 90.

"Muzzleloader is any single barreled (shotguns may be double barreled) long gun meant to be fired from the shoulder and loaded from the muzzle with an open ignition system and open or peep sights. This definition applies to muzzleloader-only seasons...and includes: open ignition in-line percussion; sidelock, under-hammer, top-hammer and mule ear percussion; sidelock flintlock and wheelock ignition systems. Matchlock ignition systems are not allowed."
__________________
Ni!

Last edited by Ni!; 11-27-2007 at 11:29 AM.
Ni! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 01:24 PM   #16
scottishsetter
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,153
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

I use the Ruger SS inline. I don't know if it's made any longer? Not cheap at $325+ I put a Musket cap plug in it and it fires off like a centerfire. Has a peep site; all good right? wrong in the western blacktail season those peskies leave before sunrise, and arrive after or at the end of legal shooting hours. Ohh, my eyes aren't that good anymore. Almost sold it and gave it up.
scottishsetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:14 PM   #17
Radke
Tuna!
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: 45:29.265 N 122:18.377 W
Posts: 1,716
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

I have both a Knight MK-85 and a Cabela's side-lock hawkins. For fun of shooting, I really prefer the hawkings. You can get one from Cabela's for less than $300 I believe, and they shoot pretty darn well. Mine is a 1-48 twist, and does reasonably well on both slugs and round balls. When I say reasonably well, I can hit within a 6 inch circle at 100 yards pretty consistantly. And if your hunting with this type of weapon, you don't much shoot beyond 100 yards.
Radke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:30 PM   #18
nobrownline
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: woodland Washington
Posts: 2,126
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Inlines are legal in Wa.,Or. and Idaho. I shoot a CVA hunter bolt. I paid 199$ for it with capper ready to shoot. You have to change or modify the sites to make it legal in Or. I shoot buffalo bullets and 2 pyrodex pellets (not legal in Or) and can hit the bottom of a pop can at 100 yds all day long
__________________
"he's hooked in the head" words used by snaggers to help them sleep at night
nobrownline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:34 PM   #19
dla
Tuna!
 
dla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

So let's see if I got it for Oregon: no pelletized powder, no fibre sights, no scopes, no 209 primers, no closed area over the primer, no sabots, no bullets longer than 2X diameter.

I think Idaho adds that the hammer must be pivoting.
__________________
My Webpage
dla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:35 PM   #20
gottafish
King Salmon
 
gottafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Troutdale
Posts: 8,110
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobrownline View Post
You have to change or modify the sites to make it legal in Or.
Are fiber optic sights leagle? If not where does it say? I cant find anything on it?
gottafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:39 PM   #21
nobrownline
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: woodland Washington
Posts: 2,126
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

They used to be, but honestly I havent read the regs this year.
__________________
"he's hooked in the head" words used by snaggers to help them sleep at night
nobrownline is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 02:46 PM   #22
gottafish
King Salmon
 
gottafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Troutdale
Posts: 8,110
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by nobrownline View Post
They used to be, but honestly I havent read the regs this year.
ya They are I found it in the 2008 regs. no fiber optics or light gathering sight
gottafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 03:46 PM   #23
Jedcraft
Tuna!
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Point, OR
Posts: 1,637
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

I would opt for the .50 rather than the .54 if you have the choice. I have the Rem. 700ML .54 - cost $399.00. I have no complaints and it shoots great but the .50 cal. offers alot more bullet options and will do everything the .54 will do.
Jedcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 04:32 PM   #24
dla
Tuna!
 
dla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Turns out that it is illegal to hunt Elk with round balls in Oregon
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources...ns/weapons.asp

And of course it must be open ignition - can't be covered mechanically.
__________________
My Webpage
dla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 04:38 PM   #25
dla
Tuna!
 
dla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Idaho Muzzleloader Rules

Effective January 2007



Muzzleloader hunt rules require that weapons must:
  • Use all-lead bullets at least within 10/1,000 (.010) of the bore diameter.
  • Have open sights.
  • Use only loose black powder or loose synthetic black powder.
  • Have an exposed, pivoting hammer, either side-lock or in-line.
  • Have an exposed ignition using only flint, musket caps or percussion caps.
  • Be at least .45 caliber for deer, antelope or mountain lion.
  • Be at least .50 caliber for elk, moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat or black bear.
__________________
My Webpage
dla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 05:31 PM   #26
Ni!
Ifish Nate
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Roundabout
Posts: 2,577
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by dla View Post
Turns out that it is illegal to hunt Elk with round balls in Oregon
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources...ns/weapons.asp

And of course it must be open ignition - can't be covered mechanically.
Once again, I'm not seeing that. Are you referring to the "slugs only" language? That includes round balls. It's in contrast to buckshot that's allowed for deer but not for elk.

From the page you linked to:
General Provisions
"It is illegal to hunt with jacketed bullets, sabots, and bullets with plastic or synthetic bases during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only. Round balls and conical lead or lead alloy bullets with a length that does not exceed twice the diameter, and cloth, paper or felt patches are allowed."
__________________
Ni!
Ni! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 05:47 PM   #27
gottafish
King Salmon
 
gottafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Troutdale
Posts: 8,110
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Scopes (permanent and detachable), fiber optics sights, sights that use artificial light or energy and sights that enhance, gather, or concentrate
natural light are not allowed during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader
only or archery/muzzleloader only. Open and peep sights made from alloys, plastic, or other materials that do not have the properties described
above are legal sights.
It is illegal to hunt with jacketed bullets, sabots and bullets with plastic or synthetic bases during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts
where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only. Round balls and conical lead or lead alloy bullets
with a length that does not exceed twice the diameter and cloth, paper or felt patches are allowed.
It is illegal to hunt with centerfire primers as an ignition source during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon
restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.
It is illegal to hunt with pelletized powders or propellants during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction
of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only. Granular (loose) black powder and black powder substitutes are the only legal
propellants during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/
muzzleloader only.
No other firearm may be used for hunting during a muzzleloader-only season. See definition on page 90.
Muzzleloading firearms with revolving actions are prohibited during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon
restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.
For muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/
gottafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 08:46 PM   #28
dla
Tuna!
 
dla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hillsboro
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ni! View Post
Are you referring to the "slugs only" language?
Yep, I was looking at the "slugs only". Since it wasn't in the shotgun section, it didn't make much sense. But I suppose they're worried that somebody will take a blunderbuss after an Elk.
__________________
My Webpage
dla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 09:05 PM   #29
Ol' KL
Chromer
 
Ol' KL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 890
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Gottafish,

I couldn't access your link.

I hunt with a ML purely for the quality of the hunt...and by that, I don't mean tinkering with gadgets. I do mean different time of year and less peeps.

I also bow and rifle hunt. Which I do for the same reasons. If the quality of the hunting conditions (Few people, long season, right dates) were always consistent, I'd pretty much always be a rifle hunter, then a ML, then bow.

Don't get me wrong, I get a little amusement out of my smoke pole and bow, but when I have to go with a match-lock, that might be a little to much fiddling for me.

If I had an endless amount of time to tinker with gear, I'd be more inclined to try to knap my own heads and shoot an osage bow.

I'm cool with you gadget guys though. Whatever floats your boat.

BTW, I'm drifting roe with my Sage VPS this weekend on the Necanicum...want to come?
Ol' KL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2007, 11:05 PM   #30
gottafish
King Salmon
 
gottafish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Troutdale
Posts: 8,110
Default Re: Suggestions for a Low-cost, Oregon-legal muzzleloader

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' KL View Post
Gottafish,

BTW, I'm drifting roe with my Sage VPS this weekend on the Necanicum...want to come?
If I wasnt trying to fill my deer tag Id be there!!!

P.S. Fishing with bait and a fly rod.
gottafish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Cast to



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:13 AM.

Terms of Service
Page generated in 0.47870 seconds with 51 queries