what binoculars

[outdoorsGUY]

i have been looking at binoculars the last couple have days.. the binoculars i have liked the best clarity wise was the elite's.. but i liked the comfort of the steiners.. do steiners make a better pair of binoculars that have good clairity??
whats your guys take on binocs..

[steelhead22]

Nikon Monarchs. Best bino for the price, and if god forbid something happens to them (i.e. taking a header off my bike during a hunt) it won't be as bad as if I had a $1500 pair around my neck.

[scottishsetter]

I really like my $70 Simmons 10X42 from thebimart.

[StickFish]

Do a search - this topic gets beaten on every couple months.

[jmshave]

In most cases there is a very noticeable difference between a $50 pair and a $300 dollar pair. In the right condidtions, there is some difference between a $300 pair and a $1200 pair.


Steiners are generally better known more for their sturdiness then optical quality (not saying that they are not good).

[Gunner]

I just bought a pair of Elites and absolutley love them. Great in low light and with the rainguard you can use them without a problem.

[Dr Strangelove]

I agree w/ the above rec: for under a G, you can't beat the B&L Elite 10x42. It's optics are on par with the Big 3 for half the money. Nikons and Leopolds have too much barrel distortion for my taste.

[4th_Point]

An older review by birders, but still useful...

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/Publica...Age_Binos.html

The birding community does very detailed reviews and their requirements are often similar to ours as hunters. Whatever you buy try to get 'fully multicoated lenses' just like you would for a scope. Look for FOV, depth of field, and resolution.

For roof prisms in the $300 range, the Monarchs are really popular. For a little more, the Vortex Vipers get good reviews (and rated high by Field & Stream, but I don't buy anything based on what they write).

Just so you know, its more costly to produce roofs than porros. The glass in roofs also need to be phase corrected. You can get better quality porros for the same money, but they are bulkier. A nice compromise is the Minox porros, based on all the reviews on the net but they are $400-500. The benefit of porros is a 3D effect.

I've looked thru a few Steiner (Predators?) and was not impressed. Their higher-end binos are probably nice, but there are other brands that get more attention, more reviews. The optics, hunting, and birding sites I go to hardly ever mention Steiner. They don't seem to be competetive with Kahles, Zeiss, or Swaro on the high-end, or Nikon, Meopta, Minox on the mid-to-upper price range. YMMV.

I like Bushnell products but hear that they are more returns than other brands. I've heard this from different sources. If they have a lifetime warranty, I wouldn't have a problem buying them and I'd like to try the rainguard in the field.

[GDuck]

Steiner makes different levels of binocs. Stay AWAY from their "sport pilot" series, they use the same glass but are not built nor sealed like the higher end ones. The good news about Steiner are the individually adjusted eyepieces, sturdy construction, nice optical quality, and customer service. The optical quality on first run "Military/Marine" are very nice (vs the refurbs). I buy fair amounts every so often for work...and usually always buy higher end Steiner. US Military uses them, Germans use them, we abuse them, for the money you can't beat them. I'd seriously look at Leupold Gold Rings second.

G

[StickFish]

Originally Posted by jmshave

In most cases there is a very noticeable difference between a $50 pair and a $300 dollar pair. In the right condidtions, there is some difference between a $300 pair and a $1200 pair.


Steiners are generally better known more for their sturdiness then optical quality (not saying that they are not good).

There is a huge difference between a $300 pair and a $1200 pair and it is at the most important time of the day the first 20 minutes and the last

[4th_Point]

I agree. Try to go to someplace like Sportsman's just before dusk and ask to take out your binocular of choice and either the Zeiss FL or Swaro EL (both widely considered the best binos bar none). Hopefully you will be able to look at objects at a distance, without too much light.

The Swaro and Zeiss are really nice, but really expensive. They will give you a nice benchmark though. There are other qualities that may not be so easy to compare such as mid-day sun in your face, or a setting sun over mountain tops. These situations can have different effects on different optics. I think many people overlook resolution. We tend to focus on magnification and light transmission, but resolution is important as well.

[Maverick Maxcat]

This question comes up often in the field with other hunters. When we do the "look and swap" with the different glasses it is painfully obvious why I spot more game with Swarovski than they do with lesser brands. You really don't know what you're missing until you do a thorough comparison under field conditions. If I had to buy all my hunting gear at Walmart, except for one thing, that thing would be my glasses. I would hunt in tennis shoes and use iron sights before I would give up my EL's.

[jmshave]

Stickfish, I agree completely. When I say some conditions, resolving power in low light is the primary factor. During that first or last bit of light there will be a difference, much less so for the other 12 hours of the day (though edge sharpness, eye fatigue, etc may also come into play). All I was getting at is that in most circumstances there will be a huge difference between the bottom end and the mid range in all conditions and a less noticeable difference between the mid and high. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of nice optics, and think that one should by the best that they can afford/justify to themselves.

[huntercgr]

One thing that comes to mind is, how much hunting, and where, do you actually hunt? ie: I hunt deer/elk in Eastern Or and Colo. I scout frequently, and probably do more spot and stalking in canyons than hunting timber. So for me great glass is important. Some say, and I agree, it can be your most important hunting tool.

I own a pair of Leica Trinovids 10x50. After using a mid-line pair from Cabelas, the comparison is like night and day. I experience zero eye fatigue. The clarity is superb. I chose these over the Swaro's because of the lifetime unconditional warranty. I could drive over these and Leica will take care of them.

It may take you awhile to save up for these, as I had to, but you'll have them forever.

[StickFish]

Originally Posted by jmshave

snip

I am a fan of nice optics, and think that one should by the best that they can afford/justify to themselves.

Let me ask you a question JM, "What scope do you have on your rifle?

IN all aspects of the day you will always see a noticeable difference between mid priced binos and high priced. Clarity is one, being able to tell if that buck has eye guards at 1000yrds, or that there really is an extra leg under that deer from the doe standing right behind it (in other words you can shoot). When you look towards the rising or setting sun you optics will not flare or corona.

I ask that question because I was searching for the bino holly grail myself, the $200 of Lieca's. It doesn't exist and there is a direct correlation between how much you spend and the quality of you optics. Anyhow I was speaking with a tech at Eagle Optics and was having a hard time paying the up charge for B&L Discovers, then $280-300. The tech asked me what I had for a rifle scope and I had a Leupold Vari-x 3 4.5-14 with a 40mmAO. He laughed for a couple seconds, than said this. "You are willing to spend $500 on a rifle scope that you will spend 10 seconds using during your hunt, but can't bring your self to spend at least that much on the binos you are going to spend all day looking through." He next told me that I had my priorities messed up and when I figure out what they really are to call back - then he hung up on me. At first I thought he was pretty rude, but when I put my pride aside I understood what he was trying to say.

Did I buy the Discovers - No! Did I buy Leica or Sworos no. I did end up spending as much on my Binos as I did my scope however, buying some from a little know company in Japan Fujinon. I got introduced to them by a CR Bar Pilot - he had a pair of FMTR 7x50's on his boat. Tried them out in the ocean and was amazed. Tried another pair at the Hillsboro air show that a tower staffer had, amazed again. While shopping at Captains Nautical, their opinionated technician handed me a pair of 6x30's and said this is what you want. Now while I can see a difference between Fujinon, Leica Swaro, I just didn't have the money with kids on the way. I had to try a little harder to save a few more bucks, and wait till the week I was going scouting to finally buy them, but those 8x30 FMTR-sx pretty sweet in my opinion. Using the big named European and these - game animals leap out at you - like Maverick says you simply see more game than everyone else in the party. Someday, I'll upgrade to Leica, but for now I'm pretty happy

[jmshave]

All of my rifles have Vari-X III's, including my .22 and .17 HMR. (Well, I do have one .22 mag that I don't' shoot much that has a Weaver 4-16) . I have several 4.5-14's and a 8.5-25 (varmint gun). My "go to" rifle is a Browning .300 WinMag, also with a 4.5-14. All are 40's. Are there better scopes out there? Absolutely, in other brands and also even some of the newer ones in the Leupold line. But, I live near Leupold, like their warranty, supporting the local guy and have had some opportunites for good buys. Mostly, though, their optics meet my needs and are the best that I can justify spending for the type and amount for hunting that I do.

I also agree that Fujinon makes some fine optics. I had one digital camera with their lense that perfromed great. I also have used Fujinon Gyro Stabilized Bino's for many hours out of a helicopter. Though heavy, they were phenomenal. I also had Canon gyro's that were much lighter, but could not compare to the Fuji's, so I would always choose the weight. I have not seen or used a regular pair of their binos, but expect that they would be quite good.

Again, I do not disagree with you at all. and I am not pitching one category over the other. Expensive binos will usually be better than cheap or mid range ones. All I was trying to get accross to the shopper/original poster is that the price to performance margin escalates rapidly once you leave the mid range. In other words, you pay much more for gains in performance that become harder to discern. Each of us then needs to decide how much performance we are willing to pay for.

I just read Raugaj's link on the bino evals and found this quote, which kind of sums up what I was trying to say..

Perhaps the most pleasant surprise in this review was the high quality and usability found among binoculars in the $200 to $500 range. Top-rated among the 27 models in this category was the Leupold Wind River 6x32 Katmai, which has a bright clear image, compact and eyeglass-friendly design, wide field of view, and an exceptionally close focus. Although their low power will limit the usefulness of these binoculars for many types of birding, they are excellent for butterfly watching and would be great to keep by the window for close-up viewing of your backyard feeder birds. Unfortunately, the similar 8x32 model (at least the pair we tested) would not focus as crisply and had a flimsier overall feel. Close behind the tiny Leupolds was the Nikon Monarch 8x42, clearly the top-rated of any mid-priced, full-power birding binoculars. These lightweight, waterproof, and very comfortable binoculars focus down to 6 feet (they were given the name “Monarch” to attract butterfly watchers) and offer an image and feel that surpasses many models costing two or three times more. Only in a direct comparison with the top-priced binoculars could our reviewers discern the narrower, slightly duller image, which was not quite sharp at the edges. But with a street price well under $300, the Monarchs are a steal.

[Maverick Maxcat]

Only in a direct comparison with the top-priced binoculars could our reviewers discern the narrower, slightly duller image, which was not quite sharp at the edges.

That is exactly the point. Critters standing in the open with contrasting backgrounds are easy. It's picking horns out of a bush at half a mile where the good glass earns it's price.

True story: I was glassing a herd of elk bedded in a snowbank in the shade of a ridge across a valley, 2-3 miles away, from a remote 2-track in the High Desert unit. First one rig pulled up, then another, and another, until there were 6! I stopped looking as the first one aproached, but soon everyone was glassing the area. My rig was blocked in, and I didn't want to show any excitment to alert anyone to the elk, so I BS'ed with them politely and looked at my map to find a way closer to the herd while they admired the scenery through their bino's. I finally got away after 15-20 minutes, no one had seen them yet, but talk about nervous! It took me a couple hours to skirt the valley and stop a mile down the ridge from their position. It was mid-morning when this all started, so I was pretty confident the elk would not go far unless jumped. I made a carefull stalk to the ridge above the herd, but they were gone, The snow made for an easy tracking job across the ridge farther down, and I spotted them again on a sidehill about 1200 yds in front of me. The wind was good, so I stalked to a position 300 yds from them across a gulley. After looking them all over for 20 minutes or so I started cow calling, in case a bigger bull was bedded where I couldn't see him. Sure enough, more elk started standing up and looking around. I looked them all over some more, picked my critter, and fired one shot from my .270 Win. The elk took a few steps and fell over while the rest of them looked on. After a few minutes they calmly walked away, and I claimed my prize.

If anyone else there had had good glasses they would have seen those elk, but they didn't. A little loss of clarity turned bedded elk into just more sagebrush for them. After all the time and money spent on a trip, my success was entirely due to the money I'd spent several years before to get good glass. It's a one-time investment that will pay off for the rest of your life!

[jmshave]

MM, sounds like you made a great choice on your binoculars. Congrats on what sounds like a great spot and stalk hunt!

[Bait O' Eggs]

Maverick, your never gonna convince those who cant get past the idea they can pay less and get as much when it comes to glass. I look for ways to save a buck as much as anybody if not more, but when it comes to good glass, until you have hunted with good glass, those cheap(er) binos from Japan just dont measure up, dawn, dusk or high noon. You can tell a difference all day long.

Just like Mavericks story, I cant count the number of times, I have spotted animals, and those around me with their couple hundred dollar bargains headed off in hopes of seeing something.

[gottafish]

I have been very happy with my nikon monarchs They have been awsome

[mbklmann]

Check out Vortex Optics. They are a new company and makes high quality glass comparable to Swaro's and Leica. I have the Vulture 12x50's and they have been amazing in the field.

[pathfinder]

nikon monarch 10x36

[REEL HANDEL]

Really like my 10/42 Leupold gold rings, Not cheap though.

[okie man]

i have pentax dfc 8x32 and they are very nice. also look at the low end zeise for a heck of a deal on quality glass. remember a good hunter uses his optics far more than his gun. don't buy a cheap pair thinking you'll save money because you will replace them sooner than you think.

[jaxflyfish]

I have a pair of Pentax DCF in 10x42. I love em. I admit that I lilke the Swaros and the Zeiss better but not enough to pay 4x.

I ran over my Pentax in Wyoming.....shipped them in a they fixed them for free. Can't beat that!!

[glowball]

My buddy is a tight wad that couldn't believe that swarovskis were any better than his cheaper fujinons. We had a pair of the slc 8x30, a pair of 8x42 nikon monarchs, a pair of 10x50 wind river, and a pair of 7x50 fujinons(the cheaper ones not the fmtr) in the truck on wed. We all cycled through all 4 pairs at first light. With out a doubt the swaros were the clearest and equally as bright as the others. The wind rivers weren't bad for the light gathering, but they were a 50mm compared to a 30mm. Imagine how much brighter the swaros are with equal lenses. There would be no comparison.

I'm planning on getting a new pair next year. I'm leaning towards the zeiss victory fl 10x42, but I'm going to play with as many as possible before I buy to make sure they feel the best in my hands.

Kris

[4th_Point]

$300 binos will not compare to the Zeiss FL or Swaro EL, but they are a big step up from the cheap binos under $100. Most noticeable for me was the depth of field and light transmission.

Some people cannot afford to spend $1500 on binos. Others can, but have a hard time justifying it. For these people $300 binos are often much better than what they currently use.

[bigjake_888]

I like the lieca's with the rangfinder.

[StickFish]

Originally Posted by glowball

My buddy is a tight wad that couldn't believe that swarovskis were any better than his cheaper fujinons. We had a pair of the slc 8x30, a pair of 8x42 nikon monarchs, a pair of 10x50 wind river, and a pair of 7x50 fujinons(the cheaper ones not the fmtr) in the truck on wed. We all cycled through all 4 pairs at first light. With out a doubt the swaros were the clearest and equally as bright as the others. The wind rivers weren't bad for the light gathering, but they were a 50mm compared to a 30mm. Imagine how much brighter the swaros are with equal lenses. There would be no comparison.

I'm planning on getting a new pair next year. I'm leaning towards the zeiss victory fl 10x42, but I'm going to play with as many as possible before I buy to make sure they feel the best in my hands.

Kris

One really good site I found over the years on optics is "better view desired" That site has a really good review on the Zeiss Victory. Take a look through the site - some very good reading

http://www.betterviewdesired.com/Zei...-Binocular.php

They look very promising.

I know the FMTR Fuji's are not Swaro's or Leica's or Zeiss - I can see that difference and when you get to looking at things that are optical instrument quality, it doesn't take much to make them expensive. roof prism, phase coating done correctly is huge. I know my next pair will come from Europe assuming I keep hunting.

[LiveLarge]

I have a pair of Nikon 10x25 Monarchs that I like well enough.

I hunted with a friend's cousin that had some very nice Swarovski binoculars that I am sure he broke the bank for. I hunted with him for four days and only saw him bring them up after already seeing deer or having deer pointed out to him. I know he didn't see any more deer than I did. Expensive binoculars won't help you see any more deer if you don't use them.

I like a light set of binoculars just because of the number of times I bring them up in a day. Something to think about.

[tag-a-long]

Nikon Monarch ATB. Just got a set this year. Great clarity, and excellent lo light visibility. My opinion..

[RAGHORN!]

Originally Posted by mbklmann

Check out Vortex Optics. They are a new company and makes high quality glass comparable to Swaro's and Leica. I have the Vulture 12x50's and they have been amazing in the field.

And their an American Company also

[mbklmann]

Originally Posted by RAGHORN!

And their an American Company also

You make it sound like a bad thing..

http://www.vortexoptics.com/

And they have the VIP Warranty. Check it out.

[RAGHORN!]

Nope! It's very good!!!!!

[Grantspastor]

I've been involved with optics for 37 years, and would have been skeptical that a $1500-$1700 pair of Swarovski binocs could be "that much better" until I got to use a pair hunting in Alaska last fall. They are unbelievably good

[Tightlip]

Originally Posted by bigjake_888

I like the lieca's with the rangfinder.

HARD TO BEAT

[007SPRIG]

I replaced the Wind River binos that were stolen a couple weeks back with another pair. The Wind River Cascade Green Ring in 10 X 42. I was very happy with the previous pair which I had for 16 years. I did look at the Nikon and Pentax in the same price range. They were all good. I chose Leupold because they are a local company.

[Don Becker]

On my last deer hunt, I was having a little trouble with clarity in the left side of my binoculars. I never even checked the binoculars during the hunt because it was minor and I was just convinced it was something with my contact lens. It wasn't until I got home and began cleaning and putting equipment away . . . my nearly two-year-old Nikon Buckmasters had moisture in the left body. In getting ready to send them in for repair, I discovered there's only a one-year warranty. How dumb! I never considered this - - 'just assumed Nikons would have a lifetime warranty (yes, I do know what assume means ).

I e-mailed them and learned that, unless the problem was worse than expected, the repair bill would be about $20 plus shipping them in - - - hey, I can live with that .

So I mail them in, Nikon acknowledges receipt by e-mail and follow-up by snail mail and, a little while later, I get my repair estimate by e-mail, followed-up by snail mail. My repair cost is going to be "$0.00" - - yes, zero dollars and zero cents!

This afternoon, I arrive home from work to find a box from their repair facility. I open the box, fully expecting to find my repaired Buckmasters - - - - WRONG!!!!

They have replaced my Buckmasters (~$200) (I think maybe they don't make them any more) with a brand new pair of Nikon Monarchs (~ $400)

Don

[No Fences]

Glad to hear that they took care of you. Leupold is the same way.

[Cliff D.]

good deal Don ! Nice to hear about good customer service. Seems to be in short supply around here lately!

[nehalemguy]

That's great news! I have two sets of Buckmasters sitting on my desk that are going back to Nikon today. Both sets were damaged in the December floods and belong to friends whose homes were flooded. They were going to discard them as a loss until I volunteered to handle the repairs for them.

I also contacted Nikon by phone and explained the circumstances of the damages. Nikon quoted $20 repair for each pair plus shipping and explained that Nikon has a "no fault" warranty.Pretty cool!

E

[Don Becker]

Originally Posted by nehalemguy

That's great news! I have two sets of Buckmasters sitting on my desk that are going back to Nikon today. Both sets were damaged in the December floods and belong to friends whose homes were flooded. They were going to discard them as a loss until I volunteered to handle the repairs for them.

I also contacted Nikon by phone and explained the circumstances of the damages. Nikon quoted $20 repair for each pair plus shipping and explained that Nikon has a "no fault" warranty.Pretty cool!

E

'Pretty painless process. I still had my owner's manual with warranty information - - so, I know it said one year. The warranty for the new Monarchs says 25 years. Here's hoping those two sets get the same handling - - you and Nikon will be big hero's to those friends you are helping out! Don