Live Bait Rig and Setup

[Cornfed]

Now that I feel confident about the hooks I have, the questions in my mind is: What is the best way to rig a live bait setup? I have some Seaguar 25# leader, and have read that 2 to 3 ft of leader for live bait is a good length. Is this length sufficient?

Other questions
- What knot do you use to tie to a ringed hook? and to a hook w/o ring?
- What kind of connection do you use to connect the leader to your main line? small swivel? line to line knot? i am thinking you want some kind of quick connection so you can get another bait back in the water quick.
- What is a good rod/reel setup for live bait and what main line strength is best?

I have a bunch of Penn 320 GTi and GT2s that I have from salmon fishing and was contemplating spooling them with 20# or 25# test and using them for TUNA live bait setups.

So what say the dogs?

[Chromaflage]

I've been trying to find the answers to these same questions for some time, now. No joy yet....which is why I suggested this as a presentation topic for the next SD convention.

[StickFish]

One the live bait trip I took Randy (Rampage) had us all tying Palomar knots - he thinks they are easy and hard to mess up.

That trip I had my reels (Avet MXL) spooled up with 20# Izorline - I broke a few hogs off, but landed at least my share of fish including a 36# and 38#. 25# is what the boat rods on the rampage had. Oh he also didn't use ringed hooks just the cheap mustad hooks.

Next year - I'm going to respool my live bait reels with 60# hollow and leave enough space for a 100' top shot of the leader I want to use. I'll use a spliced loop on the end and the top shot will also have a spliced loop and the mono to spectra join served with about 60 1/2 hitches and spectra glue. I'll have a bunch of top shots pre-tied and on leader spools - 30#, 25# and 20# with duplicates of the 25 and 20 in florocarbon.

I'm sure there will be some more learned folks pipe on this one, but that is what we'll be running on the Dance Floor

[Pilar]

K,I,S,S,

That all sounds pretty complicated to me. So far I am coming up short on reels from what I can figure. I just use what I have. Crabbait made me a couple of nice live bait rods with chrome guides. Seeker 270 and a 670. I use berkely big game XT in 25# They sell it by the 2500yd spool pretty cheap. So you can afford to change your line as often as you need to. A line counter that clips on your rod can help you get to the depth of the fish and repeat that presentation when you sink your bait with lead.

I like the Penn 975 and now they make a lever drag, non level wind version. That reel works pretty good works pretty good in a star drag, level wind but I want to try the lever version.

For terminal tackle I am using a black barrel swivel in 60#, small enough to reel through the guides. The rubber core 1 and 1-1/4 oz sinkers can get you down to the fish when they vanish as you roll up to a boil. And the leader is 20 to 30# flourocarbon Maxima. Whatever they have left on the rack when I go to the store. Once I figure out what I like I'll buy a big spool of that. 6 foot of leader and a ringed owner live bait hook. Normally a #1 but I have used the #4 when I could not find any #1. The knot is just an improved clinch and a new rig takes just seconds.

The tackle is important. But IMHO nothing is important as keeping the bait-stop going. Quick re-ups on terminal tackle when you bust off and quick re-bait is the key to keeping the fish at the boat. In the half dozen live bait deals I've been on .. we have had a couple of epic 2 or 3 hour stops.

Wet lines catch fish. Quick simple gear out fishes Gucci gear.

That trip I had my reels (Avet MXL) spooled up with 20# Izorline - I broke a few hogs off, but landed at least my share of fish including a 36# and 38#. 25# is what the boat rods on the rampage had. Oh he also didn't use ringed hooks just the cheap mustad hooks.

Next year - I'm going to respool my live bait reels with 60# hollow and leave enough space for a 100' top shot of the leader I want to use. I'll use a spliced loop on the end and the top shot will also have a spliced loop and the mono to spectra join served with about 60 1/2 hitches and spectra glue. I'll have a bunch of top shots pre-tied and on leader spools - 30#, 25# and 20# with duplicates of the 25 and 20 in florocarbon.

I'm sure there will be some more learned folks pipe on this one, but that is what we'll be running on the Dance Floor

[Tinman]

You want to present a LIVELY bait to the fish. Lively bait, lively bait, lively bait! All your tackle and technique should be directed toward presenting a lively bait. Here are the steps.

* Use a Mustad live bait hook, size 6 to 1/0, depending on bait size. Don't use the extra-heavy hooks or the ringed hooks because these just add weight that slow the bait down.

* Tie the hook directly to 15 to 25 pound monofilament. Any sort of leader or swivel or even extra knots just slows the bait down

* Use a reel with a lightweight spool. Graphite is best, aluminum is ok, and chromed brass is impossible

Graphite spools are found on Newell reels and the Daiwa SL20SH and SL30SH. The other reels with aluminum spools are not nearly as good for live bait, regardless of how fancy they are. Why is this? It is a matter of physics.

Any spool has a flywheel effect, that is it takes energy to get it turning. The bait has very limited energy. With an aluminum spool, the bait has to spend a lot of energy overcoming the flywheel effect of the spool. This means it cannot swim as fast.

A light spool is even more important for casting. It takes a lot to get a heavy aluminum spool moving, so casting distance is reduced.

[Rooster1264]

Tinman, You have no clue what you are talking about.

















When are we going fishin???

[okie man]

live baiting is the most simple way to catch tuna. you tie a hook on( uni knot is my knot of choice ) pick a lively bait , hook it and gently cast it out and let it swim away freely. if you have more than 2 connections in your setup you are over complicating it.

[KeyWest]

I like a swivel in the line to tie to for quick changes (any leader will get chafed by tuna teeth). Last year I read on here about having pre-made leaders and I like that. Also, much less line twist.

But, as John suggests, keep it simple. Go mono all the way, 25# is a good weight, tie the hook directly to the line without leader and your pretty good to go. Not much time difference between tying to a swivel and tying on a hook.

I use owner ringed hooks so I can tie the knots I know (old dog new tricks thing I guess). Reverse cinch knot or San Diego knot are my knots of choice. Both are nearly the identical and I can tie them without looking. Tying directly to a hook eye your probably best to go with a tuna knot or a Rapalla knot (I don't have a clue how to tie either).

I'm sure tying a hard knot to a hook still works well - especially if we gauge the results this year. But this was an exceptional year. If the fish become line shy, hook shy, etc., I'm sure we will all be on here asking one another all the tricks to be perfect. You could have been very sloppy this year and still catch fish.

Just my - and it's probably hardly worth that.

[Rooster1264]

Originally Posted by okie man

live baiting is the most simple way to catch tuna. you tie a hook on( uni knot is my knot of choice ) pick a lively bait , hook it and gently cast it out and let it swim away freely. if you have more than 2 connections in your setup you are over complicating it.

So simple an Okie can do it.







Where are my blanks!!!!

[okie man]

it does'nt get much harder than bluefin tuna on 10-12# line and #6-8 livebait hooks on a full sportie. as the fish get harder to get to bite the more stealthy your rig needs to be. if its wfo tuna then 40# line is fine but when things get tough knowing how to tie a small tight knot in light line with light hooks will pay off big time . never have i ever used a leader for tuna except for trolling feathers. there has been days when the whole fleet in sd would have less than 100 tuna and i would have a few bait fish out of it because i knew how to fish a bait better than most.

[Tinman]

Guys, listen to okie man and Rooster 1264....they know what they are talking about.

[Rooster1264]

Originally Posted by okie man

it does'nt get much harder than bluefin tuna on 10-12# line and #6-8 livebait hooks on a full sportie. as the fish get harder to get to bite the more stealthy your rig needs to be. if its wfo tuna then 40# line is fine but when things get tough knowing how to tie a small tight knot in light line with light hooks will pay off big time . never have i ever used a leader for tuna except for trolling feathers. there has been days when the whole fleet in sd would have less than 100 tuna and i would have a few bait fish out of it because i knew how to fish a bait better than most.

Bluefin, My favorite. Those were the good old day's. Fishing on the Freedom sitting at San Clemente anchored up off the Runway. In the late 70's all we had were pinhead chovies (3-4") Just to get bit was an aclomplishment, to get bit all the time took TALENT. My go to rig back then was a Sabre 196-7 a Penn Squidder Jr with Newell componets and clear Izor 10-12 lb test and a Mustad 9174 in sizes 6 and as small as a #8. That kind of fishing will teach you how to fish live bait real quick.

Before I start bashing designer hooks, let me tell you that I use them myself. Just not here in Oregon.

Many people on here talk about how there bait looks swimming with a ringed hook. I don't get it.

If done right. You cast your bait 20-40 ft from the boat. Personaly I can't see my bait after a good cast, BUT I CAN FEEL IT.

Bait fishing is an art. It takes lots of practice to do right. Sure this past year was awesome, anybody could catch an Albie. But to do it consistely on a slow year takes talent. Throw away all the designer stuff you read about on the internet and get back to basics if you truly want to be a great fisherman.

We didn't need ringed hooks and flouro back then so why do we need it now? We don't. The manufacturers tell you you need it. It's all a gimic to make money. Don't get suckered into it!!!

More to follow...... Gotta go to work

[Cornfed]

So what is a cheaper rod solution than going with a Seeker or Calstar? What do you look for in a live bait rod?
-big loops for castability?
-7' length?
-rated 25 to 35#?

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Cornfed

So what is a cheaper rod solution than going with a Seeker or Calstar? What do you look for in a live bait rod?
-big loops for castability?
-7' length?
-rated 25 to 35#?

The good news is that a Calstar or Seeker live bait rod can be relatively inexpensive if it built in the classic style. There is no reel seat, and no hypalon grip. The butt is simply wrapped with adhesive cork tape, which is very cheap. A proper live-bait reel (Newell 200 series, Newell 332, Penn Squidder, Penn Jigmaster, Daiwa SL30SH etc.) will have built-in rod clamps that firmly affix the reel to the rod. The system is cheap, lightweight, and allows the angler to adjust the reel placement anywhere on the grip.

As for guides, forget the expensive ceramic type. Specify Perfection chrome guides, which are readily available and comparatively cheap. Use a carbide tip. If you've ever thought about building a rod, this is an ideal type because it is so simple. PM me and I can suggest some sources for blanks and materials. Or you could contact the San Diego tackle shops for a pre-built version.

There is nothing second-class about this sort of construction. It has been proven in decades of live-bait fishing in Southern California.

For a first live-bait rod, I suggest a Calstar 196-7 coupled with any of the following reels and 20 pound mono. Whatever reel you get, make sure it has a graphite spool, not aluminum. By virtue of its light weight, graphite casts much farther.

Newell 200 series with graphite spool
Newell 332 with graphite spool
Daiwa SL30SH

[Booja 1]

Originally Posted by okie man

it does'nt get much harder than bluefin tuna on 10-12# line and #6-8 livebait hooks on a full sportie. as the fish get harder to get to bite the more stealthy your rig needs to be. if its wfo tuna then 40# line is fine but when things get tough knowing how to tie a small tight knot in light line with light hooks will pay off big time . never have i ever used a leader for tuna except for trolling feathers. there has been days when the whole fleet in sd would have less than 100 tuna and i would have a few bait fish out of it because i knew how to fish a bait better than most.

You guys must be living in 'chovies days of years past :tongue:,,,so that's why there isn't any more bft at Clemente/Coronados. You guys with the trout gear caught em all. Tho it's alot easier with the open water opportunities nowadays,,,30-40lb w/ a 'dine beats trout gear and a chovie for me anyday.

Like the "hot sticks" above have said, to get bit consistently during a scratch bite takes a whole lot of talent. Fishing down south with all the masses and intense competition a guy could use any help he can get, hence the fluoro, ringed hooks etc. But up here using the live stuff, it seems like the albies are always willing to cooperate and monitoring the boats out of Westport, it's kind of a given to load up and if not, it must have been due to weather. So you do not really need anything else, no fluoro, no ringed hooks, no leaders, swivels or any other schrapnel like what was mentioned above but tying that hook directly to your main line with whatever knot you feel comfortable with plus the best hottest bait you can find and you're good to go. All the best gear/techinique in the world means NOTHING if your bait stinks.

The bait in our area is not that strong at all so dragging around anything extra only hinders it's progress, BUT the way the fish bite up here, if one has the patience to soak it long enough, it'll probably eventually get eaten. If you enjoy and are comfortable using 20lb then so be it but don't not shy away from 30-40 as that will work just as well. When you first come upon some fish, start using the heavy gear immediately as the fish are fired up and boiling aggressively,,if and when they settle in and don't bite the 40/50lb start to scale down.

Yes the Calstars/Seekers are "da kine" but get good with whatever you're able to use and like the guys also said above, get a good quality reel as it'll make all the difference........