Gutless boning of elk question

[biederboat]

I had my first opportunity to try this. Let's just say it went well enough that I'm convinced to perfect it. I did have some problems. I hadn't read the instructions in "All About Elk" where the method is illustrated and somehow I thought you made the major length-wise hide cut on the back, which kind of worked but next time I'll do the belly. I also had to end up gutting the animal to move it since it was on a severe slope.

My main question is, in the book, it says to eventually gut the animal to get the liver, heart and tender loins. I don't use the first two but I'm not going to leave loins in the field. Can someone give me an explanation of how to do the minimum amount of gutting and get to the loins?

Also, I use the Kershaw Alaska blade trader which I'm overall fairly satisfied with. However, I do have some problems with the gut hook, sometime it just jams. It seems it works best (only?) when cutting directly with the lay of the hair and it has to be under some tension? Are there gut hooks that work better? How do people usually cut around the neck where the gut hook doesn't seem to cut well? I hate generating all that loose hair but not sure how to avoid it.

Thanks,
Biederboat

[Eagleclaw]

After you take off the backstraps make a cut on either side of the backbone near the hindend of the elk and reach in and cut them out.

[steelhead22]

Originally Posted by Eagleclaw

After you take off the backstraps make a cut on either side of the backbone near the hindend of the elk and reach in and cut them out.

Had a guy tell me this same thing, and I tried this during bow season this year and just couldn't figure it out. So, after taking EVERYTHING else on both sides of the elk, we just made a cut up the belly, reached in and got the tenderloins. Pretty clean actually, at that point there's nothing really in your way. We did our entire elk with 2, 4" Buck knives.

After trying this method, I can honestly say that I'll never gut another elk, or pack another bone as long as I live.

[AnnaDraMoss]

I have never tried this either but this topic was brought up last season and I think someone on this board post 'this' article which I bookmarked.
Hope this helps.

7. Remove the 'backstrap', neck meat, and the tenderloin. The loin (or 'backstrap') is a 'strap' of meat on each side of the backbone for nearly the whole length of the animal. Generally tender it is easy to remove.

Now go for the backstrap along top of vertebrae.

The loins (backstrap) comes off as a long 'strap' of back meat.

At the front shoulder the backstrap 'transitions' into the neck meat. The neck meat is somewhat marbled.
The tenderloin is actually 'inside' the animal. Carefully work with hand and knife (if necessary) avoiding puncturing the internal organs. The tenderloin is so tender that you may simply be able to tear it out (on smaller animals), thus avoiding the possibility of a 'slip of the knife'. Place the extracted meat on the plastic bags out of the way.

The tenderloin is in the chest/stomach cavity under the vertebrae and rear of the ribs (right under knife).

With minimal or no cutting, pull tenderloin out from under vertebrae.
Careful - do not rupture internal organs.

8. Remove flanks, ribs or rib meat where desired or required. There is not much meat accompanying the ribs of a normal deer - hardly worth messing with in my opinion. However, I abide by the applicable game laws, and in my state we are required to not waste meat, including rib meat. So, at this stage, I take the flank (side / stomach) meat, if not damaged, and I take my knife and carefully cut out the meat from between the ribs. Some may prefer to simply cut away the ribs as a 'rack'. Internal organs will be exposed by getting the tenderloins, and cutting between the ribs, so take the meat carefully to avoid puncturing internal organs.

Now for the ribs/rib meat. Going after the tenderloins I have already 'opened'
the chest/stomach cavity - but I pull the ribs up and away and work away from the organs.

[llama77]

I did my first gutless elk because of a steep slope and being by myself. A long time ago.

I start at the scrotum and then work up the belly and the inside of the legs as needed. I take off the back leg and front shoulder, then backstrap. Then neckmeat. Then i roll them over on the hide and do the same to the other side.

I then gut and remove the loins. Will try and get them out next time without gutting at all.

Next place trailcam on gutpile and get cougar picture.

[dla]

I don't gut, but my friends do. About the only difference is that I have less mess to work around, otherwise we both take the same time to dismantle an elk. Maybe I get a little less hair on the meat.

You don't have to "gut" completely to get the heart and liver. You just need to open the abdomen enough to slide a couple of stomachs out of the way, and reach in with your knife.

As long as you wait until the very end, you can get the tenderloins out by either going in the abdomen or as another poster mentioned, in through the back above the pelvis. The tenderloins aren't that big on an Elk but they are a pretty good couple chunks of meat.

I don't understand neck meat - seems like "dog food" or "mother-in-law meat" to me. Some states require you to bone it out, but I sure don't understand why - they must know a secret to cooking it. Same thing with ribs, I've dreamed about baby-back ribs, but elk ribs always taste like Elk and there's never much meat.

I've never had any success with gut hooks. I just don't know how to use them. Maybe they work on a deer. I've found that Elk hair will dull my knife very quickly - I don't know why.

[biederboat]

Originally Posted by dla

I've never had any success with gut hooks. I just don't know how to use them. Maybe they work on a deer. I've found that Elk hair will dull my knife very quickly - I don't know why.

I do like gut hooks, just want them to work better. These things can be faster than unzipping a jacket for like going up the inside of a leg. From experience and looking back on what did/didn't work, you need to go with (parallel) to the hair on the his. Going "around" the neck just won't work. Also, there needs to be tension, sort or like cutting a rope under tension work better than just trying to cut it loose. Next time I make my cut around the neck, I'll try like I do with the legs and run my cutting blade under the hide (cut from inside to out) in sections which should minimize loose hair.

Practice (and knowledge sharing) makes perfect!

Thanks for everyone's input,
Biederboat

[Rank Amateur]

Thats the right idea, always cut from the inside out, lot less hair. That darn neck is just hard to cut and the skin is tight to the meat.

[duckboy]

anadramoss

I have to say that your post shows excellent technique, you should have been a surgeon.

I must caution you all however, that throwing caution to the wind by responding to a post title such as "Gutless boning of Elk..."

throws the door wide open to your possible association with that of a "gutless elk boner"

Why, all kinds of ribbing could take place with that sort of association.

[AnnaDraMoss]

[quote=dla;1729624]
I don't understand neck meat - seems like "dog food" or "mother-in-law meat" to me. Some states require you to bone it out, but I sure don't understand why - they must know a secret to cooking it. Same thing with ribs, I've dreamed about baby-back ribs, but elk ribs always taste like Elk and there's never much meat.
Have you ever heard of "grind meat"
IE: burger, sausages, pepperoni, etc.....
To not harvest any of this meat is a waste.

Duckboy..............
That is funny.

[bbqman]

I am new to this site and figured since this is a topic i am very familiar with so i will atempt to make my first post. I have used this technique for years, mostly on elk but have used it on deer and antelope also. It is very easy and super clean. Start by skinning half of the animal up the belly to the neck and proceed down to the backbone. Then cut the hind quarter off using only your knife. You can do this by cutting the ball joint. Next cut off the front shoulder and follow the spine up and continue around the half of the neck so you can get the neck meat and front shoulder in one piece. By doing this your quarters will weigh close to the same. Roll the animal over and do the same. After all 4 quarters are off place the animal on it's brisket and cut out the backstraps. Next saw the backbone in half at the end of the ribs. take your knife and cut the membrane holding the guts inside. When this is done you can pull the pelvic bone back exposing the very tasty and clean tenderloins. This way is very clean and you will have very little blood on you. If you are carefull and keep the meat on the hide you can transer your quarters right into your game bag with little or no cleaning. I was fortunate to do this on two elk this past archery season and it goes very fast if you have a helper. 1 hour for two guys, half hour for four guys. Hope this helps.

[Nightfisher]

[quote=AnnaDraMoss;1729871]

Originally Posted by dla

I don't understand neck meat - seems like "dog food" or "mother-in-law meat" to me. Some states require you to bone it out, but I sure don't understand why - they must know a secret to cooking it. Same thing with ribs, I've dreamed about baby-back ribs, but elk ribs always taste like Elk and there's never much meat.
Have you ever heard of "grind meat"
IE: burger, sausages, pepperoni, etc.....
To not harvest any of this meat is a waste.

Duckboy..............
That is funny.

I always save neck meat for the canner, for pint jars, just add a level teaspoon of Johnnys, or Lemon pepper "my personal favorite" or 1/2 level tea spoon montreal steak, dont take up freezer space, always ready, whips up like tunafish for sandwiches, yumm.

[Big Unit]

All the above. My partner and I had the four quarters and the neck meat off in less than an hour last weekend. The neck is the worst.

BU

[dla]

Originally Posted by AnnaDraMoss

To not harvest any of this meat is a waste.

No. True waste is throwing it away once you get it home. Scraps left in the field don't go to waste. So I dont' fault folks who don't want the heart or liver. Nor do I criticize those who don't want to mess around with the tenderloin. And I fully understand not wanting the flank.

If you have the luxury of sliding your intact elk into the back of your truck and hauling it off to a processor, you can be a bit more righteous about waste. But when you are dismantling an Elk in a hole in the dark, by yourself, things can be a bit different.

To me, 4 quarters and backstrap is good enough.

[chinooklr]

You can almost get the tenderloins out without a knife, they are really easy to access just under the backbone and in front of the hip bone. Definitely don't cut into the guts to get them, way messier.

[Diehard]

Originally Posted by dla

No. True waste is throwing it away once you get it home. Scraps left in the field don't go to waste. So I dont' fault folks who don't want the heart or liver. Nor do I criticize those who don't want to mess around with the tenderloin. And I fully understand not wanting the flank.

If you have the luxury of sliding your intact elk into the back of your truck and hauling it off to a processor, you can be a bit more righteous about waste. But when you are dismantling an Elk in a hole in the dark, by yourself, things can be a bit different.

To me, 4 quarters and backstrap is good enough.

If those tenderloins are too much hassle for ya, let me know when you have one down. I'll come up and pack em out for ya!:smile:

[Bobberman]

Originally Posted by dla

No. True waste is throwing it away once you get it home. Scraps left in the field don't go to waste. So I dont' fault folks who don't want the heart or liver. Nor do I criticize those who don't want to mess around with the tenderloin. And I fully understand not wanting the flank.

If you have the luxury of sliding your intact elk into the back of your truck and hauling it off to a processor, you can be a bit more righteous about waste. But when you are dismantling an Elk in a hole in the dark, by yourself, things can be a bit different.

To me, 4 quarters and backstrap is good enough.

:lurk:

[Fish-on-Fred]

A Portion of Biederboat's original question?
[My main question is, in the book, it says to eventually gut the animal to get the liver, heart and tender loins. I don't use the first two but I'm not going to leave loins in the field. Can someone give me an explanation of how to do the minimum amount of gutting and get to the loins?]

Thanks,
Biederboat[/quote]



FISH-on's answer
No gutting required to remove tender loins (just be very careful with the knife when removing them) after removing back straps & hind quarters.....carefully make a shallow incision (just through the membrane) from the back of the rib cage just below the horizontal back bones just below where you just removed the back straps(this is assuming the carcass is stomach down the (only way I'll do it) after making the incision reach inside under the loin and separate it from the gut bag working forward until you reach where it's connected do the same between the backbone..I can usually remove the front without cutting just by grasping firmly and pulling it (some large animals will need the front cut also) the rear is the tricky part and needs extreme caution to remove all the loin without puncturing the G-bag take your time and cut towards the backbone & you will end up with two beautiful loins *I can usually accomplish removing them in 30-60 seconds each...under two minutes for both sides.

[bbqman]

Originally Posted by Fish-on-Fred

[
My main question is, in the book, it says to eventually gut the animal to get the liver, heart and tender loins. I don't use the first two but I'm not going to leave loins in the field. Can someone give me an explanation of how to do the minimum amount of gutting and get to the loins?



Thanks,
Biederboat

No gutting required to remove tender loins (just be very careful with the knife when removing them) after removing back straps & hind quarters.....carefully make a shallow incision (just through the membrane) from the back of the rib cage just below the horizontal back bones just below where you just removed the back straps(this is assuming the carcass is stomach down the (only way I'll do it) after making the incision reach inside under the loin and separate it from the gut bag working forward until you reach where it's connected do the same between the backbone..I can usually remove the front without cutting just by grasping firmly and pulling it (some large animals will need the front cut also) the rear is the tricky part and needs extreme caution to remove all the loin without puncturing the G-bag take your time and cut towards the backbone & you will end up with two beautiful loins[/quote]

[bbqman]

When you saw through the backbone and pull the pelvic back the guts are exposed but the loins are still very clean unless the animal was shot in the guts. There is no blood and this makes it very easy to take them out.

[Big Unit]

Haven't used a saw in years.

BU

[biederboat]

Originally Posted by Big Unit

Haven't used a saw in years.

BU

I would like to say that, but I'm not carrying out a whole spike head when all that's needed is antlers, eyes and ears. I only use the saw to cut the skull cap off. It made me forget my ivories this year though, dang! Oh well, they were only spikes.

Biederboat

[Fish-on-Fred]

Originally Posted by bbqman

When you saw through the backbone and pull the pelvic back the guts are exposed but the loins are still very clean unless the animal was shot in the guts. There is no blood and this makes it very easy to take them out.

Yes....bbqman your correct that works well.... if you have a saw with you (which I always do) & want to take the time to cut through the backbone being careful not to get spinal fluids and chips and dust on your meat..my personal preference is....as it takes me less than two minutes to accomplish the removal of both sides.....taking the time to cut through the backbone is unnecessary for me (but) it would be a very good method for someone unfamiliar with the process so they could see and learn how the loins are connected and gain confidence enough to remove them without puncturing the bag....

Fish-on-Fred

[Fish-on-Fred]

Originally Posted by biederboat

I would like to say that, but I'm not carrying out a whole spike head when all that's needed is antlers, eyes and ears. I only use the saw to cut the skull cap off. It made me forget my ivories this year though, dang! Oh well, they were only spikes.

Biederboat

on Elk I only use the saw to remove the antlers from the skull.... & the lower portions of the hind legs just below the joints so I have something to hang the quarters by

Fish-on

[Fish-on-Fred]

Originally Posted by biederboat

My main question is, in the book, it says to eventually gut the animal to get the liver, heart and tender loins. I don't use the first two but I'm not going to leave loins in the field. Can someone give me an explanation of how to do the minimum amount of gutting and get to the loins?

Thanks,
Biederboat

You Don't need to gut to remove the liver and heart

both are in the chest cavity & can be removed without entering the g-bag (but if your shot placement was good the heart should be hamburgerand not fit for human consumption.....
after removing all other meat from the carcass & preparing it for packing out (as the organ removal is the dirty part of the job due to the chest cavity being full of blood) the fitness (for human consumption) of the organs are dependent upon shot placement and whether the diaphragm and G-bag are intact.....heavy going away shots many times puncture the diaphragm allowing bacteria and geil to enter the chest cavity.... the fitness of the meat can be dependent upon the amount of time it took to recover the animal, outside temperature & if rifle hunting bullet fragmentation due to hitting bone & so on....

Back to removal....after trimming off all rib meet which allows most of the blood to drain from the chest cavity & exposing the lungs I've used two methods #1 involves using the saw to remove 2 or more ribs to access the heart setting at the bottom front of the rib cage...just reach in & find it, grab it pull it out and cut it lose...after that I remove the rear portion of the lungs exposing the liver area * back by the diaphragm (is the muscle the elk uses to breathe and separates the chest cavity from the G-bag) reach in grab the liver and cut it loose #2 involves an incision at the rib cage gut bag line and takes a little more practice but is what I use..


Fish-on

[Bait O' Eggs]

I never thought it was hard to gut an elk

Its a quick an easy way to dump 100lbs so you can move the elk around easier.

Besides nothing smells like elk guts

[Fish-on-Fred]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

Besides nothing smells like elk guts

back in the early '80s when I still gutted elk in the Idaho wilderness back packing alone,,, many times on the second or third pack out trip I've returned to find bears,coyotes,badgers,skunks,and miscellaneous other animals on the carcass when I returned....not a lot of fun at night 8-12 miles in....sense I stopped gutting them it takes longer for animals to find it usually giving plenty of time to pack it out with no problems. just my experience

[Nightfisher]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

I never thought it was hard to gut an elk

Its a quick an easy way to dump 100lbs so you can move the elk around easier.

Besides nothing smells like elk guts

Me too, nutin like the smell "O" guts in the morning, about 5-10 min an there outta there. I think I'd miss it myself. all the blood stains look good on my camo and boots