Timber companies getting testy.

Rank Amateur · 10-26-2007, 01:33 PM

Some of the local timber companies are getting tired of vandalism on their lands. We had an individual tear up a mainline by doing cookies all over it a week or so back and I have heard that if much more nonsense occurs, the gates will shut, period.

So stay on the gravel roads, don't spin your tires, drive safely, don't shoot signs or gates, don't winch your kills out through the little trees, take your garbage home with you, stay away from active logging area, ect. You are only allowed access an hour before sun up and must be out an hour after dark.

I know I'm preaching to the choir on here, but spread the word, maybe a slob will hear it and realize his fun will be over for good if this nonsense keeps up.

P.S. The rumor has it that if the gates get closed, names are going to appear on the closure signs of people who have been responsible for the closure. Oh yes, they do have some names.

WildernessHunter · 10-26-2007, 02:02 PM

Good for them! Show the responsible hunting community who is at fault for the closures. They deserve what they get for disrespecting the sport!

toas243 · 10-26-2007, 02:03 PM

What a shame ,I know that most of my accesability is by foot and if I knew who was doing it I would have them banned and all of their family ,I would think this would send a better message

,and if I knew I would prolly just slash there tires

OR Coast Range · 10-26-2007, 02:27 PM

I remember hearing about this kind of crap during last year's elk seasons as well. I've always thought that this would be an excellent strategy by the antis to get hunting shut down.:frown: But if they've got names, then this might not be the case. I know that I wouldn't want to be known as the guy that got things shut down for everyone.

Rank Amateur · 10-26-2007, 02:47 PM

Have you guys ever wondered why they have it one way in and one way out in a lot of the areas over here? Think about it. Might be hard to win some cases in a court of law, but anybody could write your name on the closure sign.

Yep, shaming those who get it closed would get us back to the tar and feather days, I think they had it right back then.

Joe Schwab · 10-26-2007, 02:51 PM

I don't know what is worse. ******** who steal stuff or joy riders who love to tear up private roads. It's going to get shut down. How do we get into their heads?

Trust me it is not antis doing this. It is local rednecks with nothing better to do at night.

ORsouthpaw · 10-26-2007, 02:55 PM

Sad but it only takes a few slobs to ruin it everyone. I like to walk in whenever possible so a closed gate is not always the end of the world to me. The problem is that more times then not the best access points are a mile or more behind those closed gates. That means at least two more miles of walking that wouldn't be necessary if the gate was open. Too bad that every timber company couldn't have a hotline to report vandals and others who are damaging thier land. I would be happy to turn a guy in if it helps keep access open to a good hunting spot. I wished more people would consider the impacts they have on our sport when they make bad choices like destroying gates and signs, then topping it off by leaving all thier trash behind.

Teton · 10-26-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Hook

Trust me it is not antis doing this. It is local rednecks with nothing better to do at night.

Coming from a long line of landowners who tolerated many respectful people hunting on our land, it only takes one or two bozos, and we shut the whole crowd out.

Don Becker · 10-26-2007, 02:57 PM

I can't blame the companies at all. If they're getting names - - is whatever they are able to obtain getting turned-over to OSP, I hope. Don

Irish Pennant · 10-26-2007, 02:57 PM

Why wait for it to close before posting the names? Put a shame board up now not only with names but with pictures of the trashing and a mug shot. It will put those that may do something in a different frame of mind and keep those that did do something miles away.

blacktail519 · 10-26-2007, 02:57 PM

It's certainly unfortunate, but who can blame them. I know if it were my property being abused, it would'nt take me long to close it off.

skein · 10-26-2007, 02:58 PM

Remember, the jerks doing all the damage are guys who learned their social skills by watching MTV, and the Simpsons, and a myriad of "only dweebs follow the rules" shows on TV. We aren't going to change it, we're just going to lose it.

How 'bout a gated road with a fairly easy access around it, armed with a spike strip? Wouldn't that be funny?

Skein

OR Coast Range · 10-26-2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skein

How 'bout a gated road with a fairly easy access around it, armed with a spike strip? Wouldn't that be funny?

Skein

Add a couple of OSP officers standing by and pictures of violators posted in a public place and you've got some real entertainment.

nikkidog · 10-26-2007, 03:26 PM

Who can blame them. I've been hauling garbage out of the Gifford Pinchot above Carson every weekend this deer season.(2-4 39 gallon bags of plastic, cans, glass.....). Pretty soon the Forest Service will probably shut down and gate more roads. And quite honestly.....I wish they would . Nikkidog

Rank Amateur · 10-26-2007, 03:27 PM

Those are some good ideas guys! Trust me when I tell you, outlaws do NOT like their name in the paper or the internet.

Chesapeake · 10-26-2007, 03:31 PM

I'm all for the gates. Lock all of them please. I can walk in just fine. I'm pretty well disgusted with the people open gates attract.

I have hunted Stella for pretty well 7 years. The gates for the lower section were always locked for the last 6 years, and the fiberglass road number markers were pretty well pristine but for a little green slime.

This year they opened 1 of the gates to allow the hunters in and by the end of opening weekend I was walking past marker after marker that had bean freshly shot up. There were even nice bleach white fiberglass splinters on the grass and fallen leaves behind the signs.

As my mom would say "Some peoples kids".

ehunter · 10-26-2007, 03:39 PM

I like the idea of posting names most of the guys in these areas know each other or a family that would be getting really personal and their friends would keep a sharp eye out for them.

Joe Schwab · 10-26-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Becker

I can't blame the companies at all. If they're getting names - - is whatever they are able to obtain getting turned-over to OSP, I hope. Don

Don, OHA has been a great help in this fight with the reward program. Access And Habitat Program is at the forefront also. Any names turned in by hunters or by timber companies are followed up on. One case involved a group of ATVers last year. The judges fined each one $300 PLUS ordered them to pay $500 apiece toward OHA reward fund.

Sea Jypzee · 10-26-2007, 04:02 PM

They're welcome to close the gates as far as I'm concerned. It's disturbing to see the damage some of these idiots do to land that isn't theirs.

Rank Amateur · 10-26-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Jypzee

They're welcome to close the gates as far as I'm concerned. It's disturbing to see the damage some of these idiots do to land that isn't theirs.

How far is that elk you want me to help pack out????

I like some of the road closures too, but gee if they lock it up, it could be a 12 mile round trip just getting in and out a day in some areas. Then the problem will be people camping out where they aren't supposed to.

ORsouthpaw · 10-26-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Jypzee

They're welcome to close the gates as far as I'm concerned. It's disturbing to see the damage some of these idiots do to land that isn't theirs.

That's the worse thing about these idiots. It's not there land so they don't care but I'd also be willing to bet that most of those same guys just as easily would trash there own land as well.

beavers82 · 10-26-2007, 04:34 PM

I can walk in just fine. But what about my grandpa or my uncle that have limited mobility and cant walk miles on end. It just ruins it for everyone. After everyone is walking in, there is going to be the idiot that shoots 4 bulls in a herd, then calls his friends on the cell to meet him at the gate.

Sea Jypzee · 10-26-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rank Amateur

How far is that elk you want me to help pack out????

I like some of the road closures too, but gee if they lock it up, it could be a 12 mile round trip just getting in and out a day in some areas. Then the problem will be people camping out where they aren't supposed to.

Actually it's not all that far. Break out the Mtn Bikes, load it up on my trailer, and away we go out to the gait and truck.

Gus Orviston · 10-26-2007, 05:55 PM

Be careful what you joke about.. road closure can quickly become a full closure.

gus

rob allen · 10-26-2007, 06:02 PM

I dunno about any other companies but based on what Weyrehauser paid us for the lands they own they should be open to public access no matter what... I am not condoning vandalism or anything of the sort only saying if they were ever to want to keep people off their land it would be like taking candy from a baby then complaining that the baby already licked it...

Chrome Bumper · 10-26-2007, 07:04 PM

Went up hunting mushrooms, the place was wide open, did see some trash.

Don Becker · 10-26-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacktail519

It's certainly unfortunate, but who can blame them. I know if it were my property being abused, it would'nt take me long to close it off.

Absolutely! Don

GDuck · 10-26-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Hook

I don't know what is worse. ******** who steal stuff or joy riders who love to tear up private roads. It's going to get shut down. How do we get into their heads?

Trust me it is not antis doing this. It is local rednecks with nothing better to do at night.

I don't know why they open the gates with any of this going on. If I were them, I'd shut it completely. If its not bubbas tearing up things, they are shooting each other which they just did Wednesday. If you REALLY want to know how bad it is, like Capt Hook is hinting at, either go ride with OSP or hang out on a county road in the Kolumbia Kounty back country from close of shooting time until midnight and prepare to be stunned at what you see. I live here and had no idea just how bad it really was until recently...trust me, it is no longer a mystery to me why the big game animals aren't out there like they use to be. All summer long I lay in bed and hear one or two gunshots coming from the hills at night.....

G

G

Reelentless · 10-26-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob allen

I dunno about any other companies but based on what Weyrehauser paid us for the lands they own they should be open to public access no matter what... I am not condoning vandalism or anything of the sort only saying if they were ever to want to keep people off their land it would be like taking candy from a baby then complaining that the baby already licked it...

Who's "us"? Please explain. They paid plenty for the land they bought from taking over Willamette Industries.

SS Piledriver · 10-27-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chesapeake

I'm all for the gates. Lock all of them please. I can walk in just fine. I'm pretty well disgusted with the people open gates attract.

I have hunted Stella for pretty well 7 years. The gates for the lower section were always locked for the last 6 years, and the fiberglass road number markers were pretty well pristine but for a little green slime.

This year they opened 1 of the gates to allow the hunters in and by the end of opening weekend I was walking past marker after marker that had bean freshly shot up. There were even nice bleach white fiberglass splinters on the grass and fallen leaves behind the signs.

As my mom would say "Some peoples kids".

my buddy and i hunted stella last year for the first time. we went four times late ml. we are trying to learn the unit and like it. we did see lots of teen agers in the area partying. during the snow/ice we saw a kid with his 4-runner off the road down in the trees.

fishonthebrain · 10-27-2007, 02:04 PM

I hate to say this as a hunter but, I spend a lot of time scouting and you can definetley tell when hunting season is about to open; the trash you see along the roads and the targets left plastered on trees and stumps gives it away. Even during bow season the trash increased drastically. It's amazing the mindsets of this minority of the hunters who think the private lands are their's. How would these individuals like it if someone drove to there house and shot up their trees, left the target remains there, and on the way out of the driveway dumped their trash and shot up their address sign; they would be flaming mad....

Last year during fire season when all the gates were locked, but the timber companies let us walk/mountain bike/ride horses in, this wasn't good enough for a couple of people. "Pulling/popping" locks & gates was frequentley the issue. How long would you let people do this to your property? I strongly believe the overwhelming majority of hunters respect the fact that access to the private timber lands is not a right, but a priveledge.

HawkeyeBilt · 10-27-2007, 02:28 PM

Sooner or later or maybe later then sooner....the gates will be locked up. Last hunting season near my home my bosses Yarder Got all shot up on our job site. They decided to empty there hi-power rifle on the cab. I see this kind of crap happening all around here. The woods around here look like hell during hunting season. Beer cans old tvs sitting on the side of main lines microw waves....ect. I think every road sign where i live has at least a few bullet holes in them. Seems that they really like shooting the Deer crossing signs. It's just a matter of time before these few people mess it up for everyone. But it will happen.

ehunter · 10-27-2007, 02:48 PM

Let me ask why they don't post numbers to call at every gate so that if you see some one abusing the property we can call it in?? Honestly out side of cedar creek I don't know who to call on a weekend. We the other hunters are the best eyes and they should be using us to help monitor what is happening. I hear what every one is saying about the trash :frown: The sign should say if you toss you will be turned in and fined...

Rank Amateur · 10-27-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehunter

Let me ask why they don't post numbers to call at every gate so that if you see some one abusing the property we can call it in?? Honestly out side of cedar creek I don't know who to call on a weekend. We the other hunters are the best eyes and they should be using us to help monitor what is happening. I hear what every one is saying about the trash :frown: The sign should say if you toss you will be turned in and fined...

The Fibre signs have a number on them, but I don't know if it works on weekends. With the travel management agreement with OSP, I would think you could call the TIP line and leave information. OSP is there to protect the timberlands as much as the wildlife in these areas.

Sea Jypzee · 10-28-2007, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rank Amateur

The Fibre signs have a number on them, but I don't know if it works on weekends. With the travel management agreement with OSP, I would think you could call the TIP line and leave information. OSP is there to protect the timberlands as much as the wildlife in these areas.

I know that in Lincoln County at least, and possibly others? that the big Red signs posted have the number posted for LinComm (the direct non-emergency number for 911 dispatch). Not sure about other areas.

whtelk · 10-28-2007, 09:26 AM

We have a very big problem in my area with people going "wheeling" I told one person that this is considered vandalism and I was told by him that this is not. They will drive up with about 5 to 8 rigs and tear up old mud roads with their 4 wheel drives. One guy even had a video of the last outing showing the rigs trying to climb up an old skidder path, showed their license plates real good too. I asked for a copy of the tape to turn over to the timber company, I was told no with several other choice words. I told them that if they didn't consider it vandalism then what is the problem? I you can guess I am not one of their favorite people.

baltz526 · 10-28-2007, 01:56 PM

it is the same or worse on all public lands. usfs put in a gate with giant boulders on each side, first hunting season comes along and the boulders have been winched out wide enough for 4wheeler access, or they just cut new roads around the barricade. after bow season on the north umpqua. i checked camps and could easily filled my 5yd dump trailer with trash left by bow hunters. the yahoos are everywhere

bloker · 10-28-2007, 06:42 PM

just to let people know the south gate to stimpson property off of hwy 6 has been closed for this very reason and it will not be opened for the elk season....

Don Becker · 10-28-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloker

just to let people know the south gate to stimpson property off of hwy 6 has been closed for this very reason and it will not be opened for the elk season....

Welcome aboard, Jason! Since I talked you into getting active here; now, before someone else does it, I'll tell you ('forgot earlier) 'folks here are going to be looking for you to tell a little about yourself and tell a hunting or fishing story. Don

Joe Schwab · 10-28-2007, 08:19 PM

I talked to a couple a real nice gents riding dirt bikes today in the Dutch Canyon area. They agreed to post information about private property offroad use on one of the larger offroad websites.

Education is the key IMHO.

Rank Amateur · 10-28-2007, 08:30 PM

Well, there are several forms of education! Seriously, you are correct, the more we spread the word, the more people will become aware that their actions can have wide spread impacts.

kodiakfisher · 10-29-2007, 08:02 AM

If I remember correctly the timber companies get tax breaks for allowing access to their land.

What defines access? I would think that having gates open so people can access all areas of that land would be appropriate except during high risk fire levels. The tax breaks are compensation by the state from ther tax payers for the incidentals that happen on their land.

Will the timber companies be required to forfeit the tax breaks if they lock up their land? It is their right to lock it up but they should no longer be entitled to the tax breaks received for allowing "access".

Kodiakfisher

garyk · 10-29-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Hook

One case involved a group of ATVers last year. The judges fined each one $300 PLUS ordered them to pay $500 apiece toward OHA reward fund.

That illustrates a big part of the problem....you finally catch AND convict some of these vandals and they get $300 !? That's only $50 more than a basic highway speeding ticket.

Considering the damage to property, combined with the nearly incalcuable damage done to the general public by causing access closures and it justifies much stiffer penalties. Like forfieture of the ATV's with the proceeds of their sale going to the OHA reward fund.

Maybe a bill for the next legislative session?

Joe Schwab · 10-29-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyk

That illustrates a big part of the problem....you finally catch AND convict some of these vandals and they get $300 !? That's only $50 more than a basic highway speeding ticket.

Considering the damage to property, combined with the nearly incalcuable damage done to the general public by causing access closures and it justifies much stiffer penalties. Like forfieture of the ATV's with the proceeds of their sale going to the OHA reward fund.

Maybe a bill for the next legislative session?

Actually Gary it was $800 with $500 going to a better cause (OHA) than the county or state coffers. While most of us would like to see them forfeit their houses and their first born, it just isn't going to happen. I firmly believe that a stiff fine ($300 would get my attention) and some civil penalty such as restitution or reclamation work crews for education to really work is the sensible way.

Joe Schwab · 10-29-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kodiakfisher

If I remember correctly the timber companies get tax breaks for allowing access to their land.

What defines access? I would think that having gates open so people can access all areas of that land would be appropriate except during high risk fire levels. The tax breaks are compensation by the state from ther tax payers for the incidentals that happen on their land.

Will the timber companies be required to forfeit the tax breaks if they lock up their land? It is their right to lock it up but they should no longer be entitled to the tax breaks received for allowing "access".

Kodiakfisher

I don't think there are any tax breaks for allowing access. What they do get is extra enforcement during the hunting seasons if they open their land. And they get rules that are much simpler to enforce than would be otherwise.

garyk · 10-29-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Hook

Actually Gary it was $800 with $500 going to a better cause (OHA) ....

Yup, now I see it

$800 in penalties for each is a lot better than how I first read it :o

Reelentless · 10-29-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kodiakfisher

If I remember correctly the timber companies get tax breaks for allowing access to their land.

What defines access? I would think that having gates open so people can access all areas of that land would be appropriate except during high risk fire levels. The tax breaks are compensation by the state from ther tax payers for the incidentals that happen on their land.

Will the timber companies be required to forfeit the tax breaks if they lock up their land? It is their right to lock it up but they should no longer be entitled to the tax breaks received for allowing "access".

Kodiakfisher

No tax breaks.

If timber companies haul logs on public roads (BLM in particular), they pay a lower maintenance fee if the area is open to the public. But since the BLM has no money to maintain their roads, timber companies provide the maintenance instead of paying haul fees. Leaving the gates open causes more wear and tear on the roads creating more costs to timber companies.

Its a privilege to use their roads and property, not a right.

joeyjosef · 10-29-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Pennant

Why wait for it to close before posting the names? Put a shame board up now not only with names but with pictures of the trashing and a mug shot. It will put those that may do something in a different frame of mind and keep those that did do something miles away.

They'd just shoot it up, steal it, or light it on fire.........seems pointless........

Now then........POSTING THE NAMES ONLINE might be a better way to go......PRINT THEM in the hunting synospis, perhaps?

Joey

HawkeyeBilt · 10-29-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyjosef

They'd just shoot it up, steal it, or light it on fire.........seems pointless........

Now then........POSTING THE NAMES ONLINE might be a better way to go......PRINT THEM in the hunting synospis, perhaps?

Joey

There ya go that's a darn good idea..

Abalone · 10-31-2007, 06:28 AM

I know what you mean Rank....

For the Timber workers that live out there, there's the relentless Shooting activity that seems to go on all the time.

People trying to tear down gates with winches or what ever. The don't necessarily get gates down but it's a pain in then neck having to go around fixing them, not to mention they can't use them.

Trash dumpers, Bottles shooters that shoot cases of beer right on the road. Locks are being busted and removed all the time.

Then there's the Vandalization of equipment. I am totally surprized
the gates are open at all...

jphelps · 10-31-2007, 08:20 PM

I don't blame the timber companies at all. There are alot of hunters that just refuse to follow any rules. Forest Capital (the company that controls Boise Cascade timberland) here in polk county has made it permit only to hunt or be on there land at all. Just this year I have found on our property a dead fawn that was obviously shot from the road on to our property. Just this weekend I heard shots from an area that I know is private property on both sides of the road. When I drove down to see what was going on I found 3 vehicles parked next to my "No Tresspassing Sign". They were blocking the gate also. One of the vehicles had a trailer that he had unloaded a quad and was out riding it. As far as Wherehauser and Forest capital go there is No ATV's allowed. Wherehauser still has open access to hunters for walk in. The funny thing is when I go and tell these guys that they are not allowed to park there or hunt without a permit they look at me like I am the bad guy. The timber companies are just getting tired of people not following the rules. Eventually it will all be locked up to everyone. Hopefully we as hunters can clean up this mess before it gets to much out of hand.

james