Deer got their revenge today!

tracker · 10-24-2007, 07:36 PM

My son went out bird hunting today. I was talking to him just before noon, seeing how he was doing. Its way out in eastern washington where he was and the connection was not good and we got cut off. So I waited about 5 minutes and called back. What I hear when the call is answered is metal grinding sounds and I can hear my son grunting. I could tell that the truck was rolling over and over. I guess the phone flipped open as I called. It went dead after about three rolls. You may ask how I knew it was rolling over and all I can say is that is exactly what it sounded like. Well I tried calling right back and there was nothing. Needless to say I was distressed and was just about to call State Patrol when he call and I got only a short garbled message that was hard to understand. I tried to call back and nothing. He then was able to call back and told me what had happened. A deer had run out in front of him and he tried to miss it and well run off the road. He rolled over an embankment maybe 40' high. Scary stuff. He thinks he rolled about 7 times. The truck ended upside down. The windows were all still intact and he could not break one out with his feet. This kid is about 6'2" and strong. So he grabbed the shotgun next to him and used that to batter the window out. He is fine but the truck is totaled I would think. Dogs were also fine. They were in a kennel in the back of the truck. The thing I would like to know is this? The sherriff was called by someone when they heard the wreck. This was in the middle of some grain fields but I guess someone heard it. Anyway the officer gave him a ticket for driving with wheels off the pavement. There was no one there to see the wreck. He does not drink at all and that was checked by the officer. So what kind of BS is "driving with wheels off the pavement"? That question is directed to any of the fine officers out there that might read this.

beardbuster · 10-24-2007, 07:49 PM

Glad to hear your son is fine. Looks like they find any opportunity to add to the cookie jar. I wonder if there is a fine for using a ticket for toilet paper in front of an officer???

skybuster · 10-24-2007, 07:50 PM

I believe that what "driving with wheels off pavement" really means is, "your license states you are from the west side of the state and won't waste the time to fight this ticket, so why don't you leave a little more cash over here for the inland empire.":frown:

Way to kick a guy when he's down.

Daffyblaster · 10-24-2007, 07:54 PM

That's an excellent question. I received a ticket for "Failure to maintain control of my vehicle" when I hit a patch of sand in a curve in Yellowstone National Park and my motorcycle and I did an Arlo Guthrie off a cliff. I shattered my left forearm, sprained my back and left ankle and totaled my bike. I guess she felt I really needed to KNOW that what I did was wrong.

Glad your son is ok.
Gil

twobullz · 10-24-2007, 08:13 PM

That brings back memories. My wife was driving, and I was following here in when something broke on her car and she lost control of it. The car swerved a couple of times in and out of two lanes, then off the road hit a tree and rolled. I could not stop my truck quick enough to check on her. When the police showed up, they ticketed her for failure to stay in her lane. We both just kinda stood there with our mouths open. We were happy because just before we had left, we had switched our 2 month old from my wifes car, to my truck. Everything in the back of the car ended up where my daughter almost was. So we paid the ticket and were just glad no one was hurt.

Don Becker · 10-24-2007, 08:20 PM

'Just glad your son is okay. Don

Tower Todd · 10-24-2007, 08:42 PM

Glad he is safe. I once got a ticket for "wasting fuel". Go figure.

Todd

flyin chrome · 10-24-2007, 09:10 PM

WOW that must have been scary!!! I'm Very happy to hear he is ok....The ticket is a joke!!!

StevenB · 10-24-2007, 09:17 PM

WOW !

What a sound to hear on the phone.

Next time hit the deer.

Glad there were no serious injuries.

tracker · 10-24-2007, 09:36 PM

Just hit the deer! He has 4 times. He wishes it was 5. Hes not sure why he did not this time.

Wasting fuel ticket? Was that is Nevada? I got one of those there. It was back when the speed limit was 55 and the state of nevada had to comply with the fed regs and issue a ticket for over 55. That was their response. It did not mark your record as a moving violation. The problem is that he could lose his job if the ticket sticks. Guess a lawyer is going to get some money from him. On scene officer was not going to write it but SRGT on the radio said he had to. ??????? Come on officers out there. Give us a reason for this. Not really angry but just want to understand?

Sea Jypzee · 10-24-2007, 09:58 PM

Glad to hear that he is ok and uninjured.

I agree, hit the deer!

The Overfishin Condition · 10-24-2007, 10:07 PM

I'm thinking he could get the ticket waived by telling the judge it was either swerve, or hit the deer.

In traffic safety they say anything smaller than a deer you should not take the risk of trying to avoid it. Deer, elk, and larger game you should take evasive measures.

My understanding is, that at least in Washington, if a police officers arrives at the scene of a crash, a citation must issued. They idea is that if a person crashes, or two vehicles crash, someone did something wrong. However, sometimes I think that once in a while, something freakish happens where a citation shouldn't be issued.

GDuck · 10-24-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracker

Just hit the deer! He has 4 times. He wishes it was 5. Hes not sure why he did not this time.

Wasting fuel ticket? Was that is Nevada? I got one of those there. It was back when the speed limit was 55 and the state of nevada had to comply with the fed regs and issue a ticket for over 55. That was their response. It did not mark your record as a moving violation. The problem is that he could lose his job if the ticket sticks. Guess a lawyer is going to get some money from him. On scene officer was not going to write it but SRGT on the radio said he had to. ??????? Come on officers out there. Give us a reason for this. Not really angry but just want to understand?

I can't speak for whatever podunk agency responded over there. Generally, if property damage, injury, or damage to another person's vehicle, etc., someone will get written a ticket in most jurisidictions. I NEVER wrote anyone who stacked it up and hurt themselve and/or smashed up their ride unless they were DUII, careless or reckless. Your kids scenario is like writing someone who skids on ice or snow and wasn't doing anything wrong to begin with. Was he cited under State or County code? THAT might answer your question. It could be that Barney and Boss Hog want their money, and if you fight it you go in front of the local Justus of the Piece = the Sheriff's brother. Bottom line: given what you said, the ticket has chicken feathers all over it.

Side note: I had a Sergeant order me to cite for felony Assault a homeowner who was watching a brawl in an apartment courtyard from his own fenced in patio: one of the fighters decided for no particular reason to hop the fence and attack this guy. Homeowner tried to get back into his apartment but didn't make it. After going a couple rounds, homeowner grabbed a metal handled hoe and smacked this drunk hyped up clown over the head, leaving a huge gaping wound....and giving him time to get into the apartment and lock the door. We had to thump both original fighters to haul them off. I was new at the time, on probation.... law and common sense says you have the right to defend yourself. Sergeant wasn't havin' any of it. So, when I handed the guy the cite, I told him to go to trial. My report never made it out of the DAs office "I WAS ORDERED TO..."

Sometimes you can't figure people out, and that includes Sergeants.

mrprincedog · 10-24-2007, 10:32 PM

Glad to hear he is OK. Its just natural reaction to swerve and you have to have jedi skills to keep straight and tag the deer, been there both ways myself.

I've never heard of 'driving with wheels off pavement' before. What is the specific RCW on the ticket. Should be written in the first box in the charging section, starting with 46.61.??? That will help narrow it down.

CombinationLicense · 10-24-2007, 11:02 PM

Wow! I'm glad to hear that both your son and the dogs made it out of the ordeal unscathed. I would say they're pretty lucky

The ticket is totally bogus and he should fight it no matter what. It may not do any good but I would want my day in court. It can't make matters any worse and if his job is at stake then there's no question about it.

"CL"

tracker · 10-24-2007, 11:03 PM

I will call him in the morning and see what the rcw number is. Thanks for the replies guys.

BlacktailBowhunter · 10-25-2007, 05:29 AM

I know a decent attorney.

Headhunter · 10-25-2007, 06:22 AM

Dave,

I am so glad you son is ok. Rigs can be replaced, but sons can't. That must have seemed like forever before he called yo back. Someone was watching over him!

Jim

wife&3kids · 10-25-2007, 06:32 AM

This reminds me of my buddy and I wrecking his porsche turning on to 26 from Mcloughlin about 12 years ago. There is no curb there now, but there used to be. Anyway, mu buddy comes flying around that corner, loses it, and we end up on the curb with a flat and some undercarriage damage...
Cop pulls up and we are like "now were screwed". Anyway cop with window down says "looks like you boys are in enough trouble already" and rolls off the scene.....

tracker · 10-25-2007, 03:17 PM

And for those wondering about the exact RCW number, here it is!

RCW 46.61.670

BridgeCatcher · 10-25-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daffyblaster

That's an excellent question. I received a ticket for "Failure to maintain control of my vehicle" when I hit a patch of sand in a curve in Yellowstone National Park and my motorcycle and I did an Arlo Guthrie off a cliff. I shattered my left forearm, sprained my back and left ankle and totaled my bike. I guess she felt I really needed to KNOW that what I did was wrong.

Glad your son is ok.
Gil

Glad to here all are o.k. In all accidents. I wanted to note that your Arlo Guthrie reference made me laugh, I love that song, too bad you did not land on the cops car, huh ...

mrprincedog · 10-25-2007, 08:38 PM

RCW 46.61.670

Driving with wheels off roadway.

</B>It shall be unlawful to operate or drive any vehicle or combination of vehicles over or along any pavement or gravel or crushed rock surface on a public highway with one wheel or all of the wheels off the roadway thereof, except as permitted by RCW 46.61.428 or for the purpose of stopping off such roadway, or having stopped thereat, for proceeding back onto the pavement, gravel or crushed rock surface thereof.

.....seems like a weird one

tracker · 10-25-2007, 08:51 PM

Ok so I dont mind saying that someone was really trying hard the day they wrote that one to confuse people! I can not really say I understand what that means. It is almost saying that you can not drive off the road at all. Say for instanxce there is a large rock in the road. From the way I read it, you could be cited for pulling over to the side of the road and going around the rock, providing your tires left the paved roadside. I think thats one worth fighting if the judge is less than intelligent and follows through with a fine! Unreal!

wthr4d · 10-26-2007, 06:51 AM

WOW! Now thats a stretch. It moves from confusing to vague if you read the "except as" RCW that is cited. Basically what I get from this is your son was cited for driving off of the marked roadway. I'm not sure how that applies to rolling your truck when swerving to miss a large animal in the road.

Glad to hear your boy and and his pups are doing okay! I'd sure seek legal advice on this one!

Paul

Teton · 10-26-2007, 10:25 AM

Dave, give me a call this afternoon at my office, 360-696-1012. I just got back from Eastern Washington myself, and read this post.

To be honest, I'm not surprised to see a ticket issued, even though it is a pretty wishy-washy one.

The bottom line is if there was evidence to support the elements of the violation, the ticket will stick, but a reduced fine can be negotiated with a Judge. The problem there is geographic. If it is the policy of the County to issue a ticket every time an accident involving damage occurs, they will always find an obscure provision to stick you with.

I'll look up the authority and exemptions, and we'll chat to see if there is anything one can do.

Teton · 10-26-2007, 02:04 PM

Dave, I got a chance to look up the statute, and a few applicable cases. A 1943 case, which is still good law, holds that the statute you mentioned, RCW 46.61.670, is inapplicable to a situation where an automobile is driven off the paved portion of a highway to avoid an imminent collision.

Yes, its an old case, but according to your son's account of the incident, he was avoiding an imminent collision with a deer, which was the cause of the vehicle leaving the roadway.

It is clear from the language of the statute, and the exceptions thereto, that it was enacted to cover those situations where drivers are intentionally driving along the roadway with one or more wheels off the surface of the road, and not the present situation (avoidance of a collision). The exception in section .428 is for slow-moving vehicles which can drive on an improved shoulder to allow for free traffic flow. Call me so I can fax the annotated statute to you, together with the case.

Having a statement from a witness concerning the regular presence of deer or actual presence of a deer on the road at the time of the incident would really support the argument. In any event, a reasonable judge should dismiss the violation.

Looks like the Officer cited the wrong statute to make the ticket stick.

tracker · 10-26-2007, 02:59 PM

Thanks Dave! I got the fax but I think PDF will be better. Fax is a bit hard to read. Again thanks!

CombinationLicense · 10-26-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teton

Dave, I got a chance to look up the statute, and a few applicable cases. A 1943 case, which is still good law, holds that the statute you mentioned, RCW 46.61.670, is inapplicable to a situation where an automobile is driven off the paved portion of a highway to avoid an imminent collision.

Yes, its an old case, but according to your son's account of the incident, he was avoiding an imminent collision with a deer, which was the cause of the vehicle leaving the roadway.

It is clear from the language of the statute, and the exceptions thereto, that it was enacted to cover those situations where drivers are intentionally driving along the roadway with one or more wheels off the surface of the road, and not the present situation (avoidance of a collision). The exception in section .428 is for slow-moving vehicles which can drive on an improved shoulder to allow for free traffic flow. Call me so I can fax the annotated statute to you, together with the case.

Having a statement from a witness concerning the regular presence of deer or actual presence of a deer on the road at the time of the incident would really support the argument. In any event, a reasonable judge should dismiss the violation.

Looks like the Officer cited the wrong statute to make the ticket stick.

Nice work Teton!

"CL"

K950 · 10-27-2007, 03:04 PM

First off I'm glad to hear your son is OK. Next time he should just hit the deer. As far as the citation.....my professional comment is that he (the cop) is probably under policy to issue the citation in regards to a crash. Crash with two cars or property damage. Now the officer checked for DUII and ruled that out. It was evidant that your son was heading hunting and probably not speeding. He could have run into a cop with a chip on his shoulder, young cop with no common sense or one with his head up his backside. It is obvious that "Officer Discression" was not a factor or even used. I have never been ordered to issue a ticket for something that I felt was an "accident" I am truly sorry for what occurred with this and I can only hope that this is not held against all law enforcement officers. There are some very decent cops out there that still want to help people out and go home every night. Anyway I would fight it because if the officer testifys that he had no evidence that there was any negligent, reckless or careless behavior you might have a chance to have it dismissed. My

.

tracker · 10-27-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K950

First off I'm glad to hear your son is OK. Next time he should just hit the deer. As far as the citation.....my professional comment is that he (the cop) is probably under policy to issue the citation in regards to a crash. Crash with two cars or property damage. Now the officer checked for DUII and ruled that out. It was evidant that your son was heading hunting and probably not speeding. He could have run into a cop with a chip on his shoulder, young cop with no common sense or one with his head up his backside. It is obvious that "Officer Discression" was not a factor or even used. I have never been ordered to issue a ticket for something that I felt was an "accident" I am truly sorry for what occurred with this and I can only hope that this is not held against all law enforcement officers. There are some very decent cops out there that still want to help people out and go home every night. Anyway I would fight it because if the officer testifys that he had no evidence that there was any negligent, reckless or careless behavior you might have a chance to have it dismissed. My

.

Neither my son or I have anything against the officer. Just think it was not something that should have been issued. Thanks to Teton I think we will have our day in court and come out with a good decision!