2001 fishing morals and ethics survey!

[Master Baiter]

#2 When fighting a fish, if it definitely determined to not be hooked in the mouth (ie. belly, dorsal, tail, top of head, under jaw), then the fish should be broken off immediately.

Reason: Fighting a snagged fish is harmful and in most cases detrimental to the survival of the fish upon release. The value of less than $1 worth of gear should not be put ahead of that of the resource.

[will_e_fish]

The #1 Golden Rule "Leave nothing but footprints" on the bank or in the water.

Reason:This should be so obvious and I know how tired we all get by overstating the obvious.

will_e_fish

[Wyndknot]

Do the right thing, even if no one is looking.

[ampersat]

part of the problem with this question is that ethics and morals are to a large part subjective.

some hardcore folks would say that taking a native on a river where it's allowed is 'immoral'; whereas, others wouldn't have any problems with someone taking a native as long as it's legal under the regs.

there are some other situations where it is a little more clear cut. putting your boat or yourself in a position where it interferes with someone else's ability to fish safely and effectively would be an example. these kind of things fall under general consideration of your fellow fisherperson.

i'm having a hard time finding an instance where something fishing related is legal but somehow unethical or immoral. perhaps you could post a specific instance that would help clarify what you are asking.

[Klick Steelies]

This not morally incorrect or unethical in any means, but it is down right rude. And that is give bank anglers room to fish the water they are fishing. I fish from my drift boat the majority of the time, but do some bank angling. I find more and more drift boaters pulling plugs or side drifting over the water I am fishing more and more often. I have witnessed numerous fish hooked in the water I am fishing by a drift boat side drifting or pulling plugs. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] Bank anglers work over a very small portion of a river in comparison to that which a drift boat does, and give them room. We are all trying to do what we enjoy in fishing, and it is too bad that some people have to ruin it for others.

In retrospect I think I am making this way too narrow of a topic in alienating boaters, I see bank anlers do this to other bank anglers, and boats doing it to other boats. I think what has been lost is the reason most fisherman fish, that being the outdoors, the serenity, and having fun. Fishing has become more of a competition rather than relaxation, and I am sad to see this. I find myself putting my rod down and watching other people fight fish quite often, just because it is enjoyable. I guess what it all comes down to is going out and having a good time, and enjoying where you are. Respect one another, and it will be more fun for everyone.

Oh yeah, and no more snagging or lining of fish!!!!
[img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Klick Steelies ]

[Cowlitzfisherman]

Ampersat

You have just answered part of your own question. When someone else says that it's not moral or ethical, then they need to let us know what their moral or ethic opinion is, and explain why they think, or perceive, that their opinion is the correct one! No one said that this issue will be a piece of cake to answer!


Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????
[img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[will_e_fish]

Golden Rule # 2 "Do the right thing and do the legal thing."
Reason:Mistakes cost us all in the long run. Not having the presence of mind to only think of yourself and not the future will make us all pay the price.
will_e_fish

[Paranoid]

Rule #3- No sleds on the upper Wynoochie or the East Fork of the Satsop. I'm running for cover on this one!

[Cowlitzfisherman]

Paranoid

May be good, may be bad!
Like i said earlier, please give your reasoning for this issue. Is it an ethical issue or is it a moral issue. please explain.


Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????
[img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Cowlitzfisherman]

This is a similar survey that I have posted on the other fishing BB. It has been slightly changed, but the contents are still the same. I am sure that this is also an issue here.

I heard a lot about morals and ethics this past week on other fishing BB, and have to admit, I am a little puzzled. Apparently someone out there has developed a secret set of unwritten moral and ethic Fishing Rules that we are all suppose to know about when we are out fishing. I would like to see what these new Fishing moral and ethics rules are, wouldn't you? It would also be helpful for everyone to "understand" the reasoning behind each one of these proclaimed unpublished rules.

I keep hearing that it's "morally or ethically wrong" to do this or to do that when we are out fishing! The list goes on an on, but for once; wouldn't it be interesting to here the logic behind their reasoning?

Just think about it, you could post a reply back to another posting, and actually say something e.g., "that's against moral or ethic rule #3 or 7". At lease that way the person would know what moral or ethical rule he has been accused of breaking. If they are going to be our judge, then they can tell us what rule we have allegedly broken! So here's the question. What secret "moral" or "ethic" rule should become part of our "fishing code of ethics", and what is your reasoning for or against it?

Who will be first?


Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????
[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

NO SNAGGING FISH!

[Phish_on]

#1. It is more important to have fish in the river 20 years from now than to have one on the barbecue today.

[Big Willie]

Don't be an a**hole!

[willierower]

Flossing is snagging and snaggers are scum.

Here is a question on ethics...
If a driftboater pulls plugs through a hole that you are fishing from the bank on more than one occasion, Is it unethical or immoral to knife all his tires?

Im going to catch hell for this. This past winter certain people were getting mad at a certain individual for using a gas powered motor to run up a small coastal stream. He would run up until he met the first boats coming down. He was entirely within the law. The people that were getting mad at the individaul passed around petition to get gas powered outboards banned on that stream. I dont think the individual using the gas motor was doing anything immoral or unethical. I think the people who were mad are a bunch of whiners. The guy found an edge and was using it. Is there anything wrong with that? I think not. Istead of running to get the laws changed, Try beating the guy at his own game. I already have a plan in the works to beat that guy. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Amerman]

Willierower,

You took my post and question.
I agree that all snagging by whatever name is wrong (flossing, snagging, beeding). Reason: the fish should have to make a conscientious decision to bite to be caught.

I asssume on the small river motor runner, you are talking about me. Thanks for your support on this issue. Just a few facts so everyone knows the small river you refer to is not the Kilchis, Miami, Drift Creek or Little Nestucca. It's the Siletz, one of the largest rivers on the north coast. Its average mean river flow in cubic feet per second is the same as the Clackamas from November through June. And we all know, no one runs a motor boat on the Clackamas. You say I was running up until I saw the first drift boat. But the truth is 90% of the days I fished there, I never saw one boat. The reality is the only reason this became an issue is because one guide got ****** at me for doing it. Besides him on this stretch of the river, I only saw 4 other drift boats all year. He was running a gas motor on this stretch one of the two days I saw him. He has run a gas motor on this stretch for years and only had a problem with it when I started doing it. He claimed because I was there, even though my boat was slaying them, he could not catch any fish because I caused his techniques not to work.

I asked at the time these posts started this winter for anyone to list why what I was doing was unethical or immorral. No one did. What did I do that was immorral or wrong? What did I do except find a way to fish an area that was effective? What did I do except catch a bunch of fish in front of and behind a guide who thought he owned a stretch of the river? Can someone please list their rule on this and give a reason other than "it is just wrong."

It's funny this came up today, the day of the meeting that is being held to ban me (I mean motors) off this river.

[Tanner]

Never fart while you are elbow to elbow combat fishing. It is rude and other people don't want to smell your "last night's dinner". [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I always hear (and I agree) about how wrong it is for a driftboat or a sled to invade a bank anglers water. The side I have never heard about is a bank angler invading a driftboat's water. This has happened to me on more than one occasion. I will be working plugs through a nice long run and a bank angler appears and starts casting below me cutting me short. I feel that this is as unethical as the reverse situation.

[StickySharp]

Keeping dark hens just for the eggs.

I don't like intentional snagging.

However, what seems more unethical and maybe immoral is the practice of keeping dark and obviously inedible hens(mostly wild fall chinook) just for the eggs.

I've heard lots of justifications-"Oh it'll smoke up OK", or "It'll make good crab bait", or "Well she's dark outside, but the meat will be good". My guess is usually the eggs get cured up and the fish is trash. I'd much rather see someone keep an accidentally snagged fish that is bright and in good shape than keep a dark and unusable hen caught "legally" just for the eggs.

[CAGEY]

If you are a true sportsman and i mean a true sportsman you will always do what is right. You dont need a written law to follow, just good common sense. Everyone has there little ways of doing things, just because they dont agree with what you do does not mean they are right. So i just do what i think is the right thing to do and i have never been yelled at so it must work.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Tanner, that still proves the point that the driftboat can cover more water. Sure, it's aggravating, but first one there, wins (in my book).

What I cannot cannot cannot stand, is the boater that anchors up, pulls plugs, boondogs, etc. through a bankie's water that has been there before them...hell possibly been there since legal light to fish. Then 2 hours later, a boat wants to work on through the water that guy has set up shop on? PLEEEEEEEASE! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

To me, it does not matter the method being used by the majority of the fishermen out there. If the guy was there first casting out spinners or spoons, then the other 80 people who didn't show up first need to deal with that if they planned on drifting. "He who gets there first, gets the hole, but if it's a shared hole; he who got there first should not be muscled or aggravated into changing their methods just because a line of crackers didn't feel like waking up early. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Snagging = illegal and heartbreaking to watch because these people have no respect for what the animal has to go through to even make it that far, where said angler snagged the fish. Personally, however, it's a little more understandable on a river right below a final hatchery that blocks fish from moving further up. I didn't say it was right. I said that scenario I could understand, if it were legal. now for the next part to this:

Make a set, maximum length for leaders. Outlaw treble hooks, and possibly set the max. amount of weight (lead) allowed in rivers, or outlaw banana weights in rivers(but that's too easy to get around because a snagger can pick a different shape). Just all suggestions.

OK, you want an example of why a lot of people are angered at the retainment of native steelhead where legal to do so? Let's take a different animal (for example purposes only), like a bald eagle, rhino, or even better, the buffalo.

Let's say they are endangered in the majority of a location, except you can kill and keep them in just a couple of places inside this larger location. Why would you insist on harvesting these animals, when you know as a whole, that this species is endangered or threatened? Especially when you do not necassarily need to consume this animal for survival? "Oh we'll never run out of buffalo....." (as the passengers on a train headed out to the West begin to open fire on a herd of buffalo) [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Dogfish]

Hey Y'all,

The only problem with the last part of your argument is that there is no "catch and release" hunting.

I don't see a lot of difference between a C & R guy who goes and catches 30 or more native steelhead and ends up killing 2 to 5 because of hook mortality, figuring 5 to 10 percent, and some guy who goes up to the penninsula and takes home one large 30 lb steelhead in a season. Both guys killed fish that were permanently removed from the gene pool, but one ended up as people food, while the others were fishfood.

If folks are so worried about "native" fish, put your gear away, or don't fish in an area where there is a chance at catching a nate. That is a standard that they set for themselves. If you catch a bunch of fish, it is very likely that some will die.

I might keep one large native steelhead, if I were lucky enough to catch one in an area where it was legal to do so, but I wouldn't keep more than that. That is my standard, but I don't look down upon someone who chooses to fish legally. I will try to SHOW them the better way.

Andy

[Klick Steelies]

First of all I think all wild fish should be released, take a picture, take its measurement, do whatever you need to do, but keep these fish in the rivers, not on your table.

In my opinion, fisherman need to change their tactics when there is a good chance of hooking a native fish. Don't run diver and bait, where it jams the bait down the throat of these fish and has a much greater chance of getting into their gills. If you do hook one deep don't even try and remove the hook break it off, and let the fish go. There will be mortality of fish even if hooked in the corner of the mouth, but we need to do whatever we can to enhance their chances for survival. We are not obligated to do any of this, but I see an awful lot of fisherman running diver and bait on rivers that have fairly decent native runs of fish, and it is not legal to keep them. Just my $.02.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Actually Andy, there is catch-n-release hunting; photographers have been doing it for years. I love to hunt both methods.

I will look down upon them Andy because that way of thinking is outdated. There is a larger difference than one being fish food and one being people food. Most importantly, the person does not need to eat this fish to survive, and I imagine license sales wouldn't be affected one way or another if you could not keep a native fish in any river.

If you could not fish where there were native stocks in, that's fine by me. I'm in it for the welfare of the fish, first. At least this way, we'll still be able to "look" at them 20 years down the road.

[Dogfish]

Good point about the photography. I guess you could also count scouting as C & R hunting as well. I snuck into a herd of 120 elk three years ago by belly crawling about 200 yards in the Quliomene area. That was as exciting as any hunt I ever went on, and I didn't even have a gun. The darned cows kept on winding me from behind, but I managed to hang out with them for about an hour.

My main point is to set a standard for yourself, within the regulations. You may choose to hold your self to a higher standard, and if you do, great!

The outdated method of thinking that hurts us all is one where, "If they don't fish like I fish, they aren't worth a **** !" This does nothing but drive a wedge between sportsmen who should be banding together, instead of arguing. I say show others the benefits of your ways, and you might just save a bunch of fish if you can change just one person's mind. The results can be exponentially beneficial.

I would have thought nothing about bonking wild fish as many days in a row as it would be legal to do so ten years ago. A friend of mine showed me a better way, and so now I release almost every wild fish I catch. I keep pinks, sockeye, and maybe 1 or 2 kings a year where legal, but I have caught about 18 kings so far this year, only kept 1. Mostly I target the hatchery coho.

Total fish caught this year by me..88 salmon, not counting those leetle guys less than 20".

Total fish kept..16, 1 king, 6 humpies, 9 hatchery silvers.

Conservation equals wise use.
Preservation equals non-use.

Choose, and teach people your way.

Take care,

Andy