GFCI outlet question for any electricians....

JasonsZ06 · 10-20-2007, 02:50 PM

I have a GFCI outlet (20 amp circuit) in my garage that just started tripping last night (my chest freezer is on this circuit). I reset it and it'll go for awhile and then suddenly trip again. I haven't plugged anything additional into this circuit, and nothing has changed. Everything the circuit is running has been there for almost two years now and I haven't had any trouble up til now. The electrical panel breaker is not tripping. Do GFCI outlets go bad?

Don Becker · 10-20-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonsZ06

I have a GFCI outlet (20 amp circuit) in my garage that just started tripping last night (my chest freezer is on this circuit). I reset it and it'll go for awhile and then suddenly trip again. I haven't plugged anything additional into this circuit, and nothing has changed. Everything the circuit is running has been there for almost two years now and I haven't had any trouble up til now. The electrical panel breaker is not tripping. Do GFCI outlets go bad?

I'm definitely NOT an electrician. But, I'm pretty certain you've just got a worn-out GFCI. I hope you caught it soon-enough to save whatever was in your freezer. It may be that, someone more knowledgeable than I, will advise a non-GFCI outlet if there's nothing else on that circuit. "Seems they're great when needed for protection but routinely fail/wear-out/whatever and, if not needed for safety on that circuit, maybe someone on here (an electrician, as you suggested) can tell you whether it's really needed.

Don

GSD · 10-20-2007, 03:00 PM

This one has popped up several times on here in the past. The GFI outlets are well known for tripping when used for appliances such as freezers and refridgerators with capacitor starting motors. Most folks end up finding an outlet not hooked into the GFI circuit or have a dedicated outlet installed.

You might try doing a search and see what you can find.

I could be wrong, so if need be, someone correct me...

Bill {GSD}umpkin:

Added Info:
Here's some comments on GFI outlets from appliance manufacturers:

Amana - Amana appliances require a properly grounded and polarized outlet. Amana does not recommend the use of ground fault interrupter outlets (GFI) with our appliances. The use of this type of outlet may not allow the appliance to operate properly. Some appliance components could create enough resistance to trip the GFI outlet during normal use.
Frigidaire ~ Electrolux - Thank you for contacting Electrolux Home Products. We do not recommend the use of GFI outlets as they can go bad and cause loss of power to an appliance.
General Electric - No, we do not recommend GFI outlets with our appliances. GFCI or GFI (Ground fault circuit interrupt) GFI wall plugs check for any current or voltage that may "leak" to the ground. Most appliances have some current leakage to ground, especially electronic gas ranges. The spark igniter on a gas range will cause the GFCI to trip. It is recommended that you NOT plug an electric spark igniter gas range or ANY other major appliance into a GFI wall outlet. This includes: Refrigerators/Freezers, Microwaves/Advantiums, Dishwashers/Disposals, Electric Ranges/Wall Ovens, Gas Ranges (Electric Ignition), Washers, Dryers, Water Softeners, Filtration Systems with Electronic Monitors.

wannacatchem · 10-20-2007, 03:02 PM

My garage has a dedicated freezer circuit just for this reason. GFCI's can pop while your on vacation and ruin all your food. If your using in for nothing else but the freezer, I would replace whatever it is you need to replace so its a dedicated freezer circuit. You may need to restore the original configuration when you sell........

gerry · 10-20-2007, 04:08 PM

Yes, they will get "weak" for no apparent reason. Like the other posts, my freezer in the garage doesn,t have one for this reason. I have to plug in my smoker to an unprotected plug or it will trip gfi's also.

JasonsZ06 · 10-20-2007, 07:31 PM

I switched the GFCI outlet a couple hours ago, and found that the new one has tripped also. This perplexes me, as I haven't had any issues in the last almost two years of running it this way. I haven't changed or added anything to this circuit either. Something else must be going on, but I don't know what it is yet.

Jason

Don Becker · 10-20-2007, 07:51 PM

'Sounds like your original instinct was correct - - where's that electrician? In the meantime, can you run an extension cord from the freezer to another circuit? 'sure did sound like a "tired" GFCI to me.

Something's wrong - - 'might have a safety issue there. I think I'd have it checked-out sooner versus later. 'Just some ideas: any sound or heat at the breaker panel; is the house (what was it, early 80's???) wired with aluminum wiring; water intrusion somewhere????

Don

Jsail · 10-20-2007, 07:54 PM

I think GSD is headed in the right direction

Now that you have ruled out the outlet, think about;

Could the freezer motor be drawing a lot at start up. A bad or weak ground could cause this? Plus other things.

I don't know how old the house is, but it could be in the panel. Are all the screws and nuts tight on the ground bus bar?

If you are going to have a electrician out to look at the issue, have him bring a GFI breaker. If you tell him the brand of electrical panel and the approximate age, he can have the right part when he comes.
Through the years I have noticed that the first thing a lot of electricians will do is re-tighten all the screws that are visible in a panel.

If this isn't a dedicated outlet then it must be the first outlet on this run.
What else is plugged into this run or circuit? Anything new? Are the other outlets wired correctly? If the common and the load were switched, the outlet and circuit would still work unless something was plugged into the outlet that was wired wrong (I think, yea thats it, I think) and that would trip the GFI.

There should be (on newer houses) 2 outlet circuits in the garage. Plug the freezer in to the other one and see what happens.

Gus Orviston · 10-21-2007, 12:35 AM

either something funny , that is causing it to trip, or it is going bad. I had a couple go out.

As for putting the unit on a normal outloet I think it is code requires GFI in the garage, or outside? anybody know for sure?

BCF · 10-21-2007, 06:06 AM

Have not done residential in a while, but NEC once would allow the outlet supplying power to a single appliance, with a dedicated circuit where nothing else can be plugged into that circuit does not have to be a GFCI in the garage.

So as long as your problem is not in the appliance, or the conductors feeding the outlet, or the breaker feeding the conductors, or the section of buss in the panel that the breaker sits on,

then I would put a single outlet, (not a duplex) on a 20amp dedicated circuit and make sure you have a minimum of 12 gauge wire from the breaker to the plug.

I will send you my bill later.

BCF

JasonsZ06 · 10-21-2007, 09:45 AM

[/quote]
then I would put a single outlet, (not a duplex) on a 20amp dedicated circuit and make sure you have a minimum of 12 gauge wire from the breaker to the plug.

I will send you my bill later.

BCF[/quote]

I have two freezers in my garage, one is the chest freezer that is on the garage circuit, the other is an upright freezer that is on a dedicated freezer circuit (one outlet only). I also have an upright refridgerator/freezer next to these. Upon further research, I found that the garage circuit is actually a 15 amp circuit (15 amp breaker) but has a 20 amp GFCI outlet first in line. (it was there, I didn't do this). Appears that this is 12 gauge wire. The dedicated freezer circuit has a 20 amp breaker, is 10 gauge wire, and appears that it only feeds the one outlet. Is there any reason why I couldn't run both freezers and the refrigerator off of this one circuit? The chest freezer draws 4.8 amps, and I assume the other two draw about the same, which would put me around 15 amps on a 20 amp circuit.

Jason

BCF · 10-21-2007, 11:55 AM

then I would put a single outlet, (not a duplex) on a 20amp dedicated circuit and make sure you have a minimum of 12 gauge wire from the breaker to the plug.

I will send you my bill later.

BCF[/quote]

I have two freezers in my garage, one is the chest freezer that is on the garage circuit, the other is an upright freezer that is on a dedicated freezer circuit (one outlet only). I also have an upright refridgerator/freezer next to these. Upon further research, I found that the garage circuit is actually a 15 amp circuit (15 amp breaker) but has a 20 amp GFCI outlet first in line. (it was there, I didn't do this). Appears that this is 12 gauge wire. The dedicated freezer circuit has a 20 amp breaker, is 10 gauge wire, and appears that it only feeds the one outlet. Is there any reason why I couldn't run both freezers and the refrigerator off of this one circuit? The chest freezer draws 4.8 amps, and I assume the other two draw about the same, which would put me around 15 amps on a 20 amp circuit.

Jason[/quote]

I am questioning your infomation. Highly unlikely it is #10 on that dedicated 20amp, but it is fine if it is, and the 20amp GFCI on the 15 amp breaker will only be good to 1500 watts( 80%) of the max. rating of the breaker which would be 1800 watts. So you might be pushing the limits of that breaker if the appliances cycle on at the same time.

I am now exhausted from thinking about your appliance warehouse you got in your garage. I say say put them up for sale and Greenbuttskunk or Bill Monroe will come get them for you. They are ...or at least seemed to be wholesalers of used appliances and crabpots.

BCF

Swift Fly Guy · 10-21-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonsZ06

I switched the GFCI outlet a couple hours ago, and found that the new one has tripped also. This perplexes me, as I haven't had any issues in the last almost two years of running it this way. I haven't changed or added anything to this circuit either. Something else must be going on, but I don't know what it is yet.

Jason

I had the same strange thing going on here...maybe something PGE has done over here in Beaverton. I had two GFCI outlets go bad at my house at the same time. It just didn't make any sense what are the chances?
I too have a fridge/freezer on my garage GFCI circuit and never wanted to count on the GFCI again. I installed a new GFCI and bi-passed the follow on outlet to the freezer. I installed a second GFCI in line after the freezer outlet to keep things safe.

Swift Fly Guy · 10-21-2007, 01:36 PM

Upon further research, I found that the garage circuit is actually a 15 amp circuit (15 amp breaker) but has a 20 amp GFCI outlet first in line. (it was there, I didn't do this). Appears that this is 12 gauge wire. The dedicated freezer circuit has a 20 amp breaker, is 10 gauge wire, and appears that it only feeds the one outlet. Is there any reason why I couldn't run both freezers and the refrigerator off of this one circuit? The chest freezer draws 4.8 amps, and I assume the other two draw about the same, which would put me around 15 amps on a 20 amp circuit.

Jason[/quote]

The GFI is likely rated for 20 amp pass through, 15 amp for the outlet and the freeze circuit is likely 12 gauge with the other likely to be 14 gauge. It would unlikely they would have installed 10 gauge for a freezer circuit but maybe. If the gauge of the wire is as you stated that's good, it would give you more option to feed all the gear in your garage. PM if needed I can dig out a residential electrical book that would answer all your questions.

JasonsZ06 · 10-21-2007, 02:22 PM

Jason[/quote]

I am questioning your infomation. Highly unlikely it is #10 on that dedicated 20amp, but it is fine if it is, and the 20amp GFCI on the 15 amp breaker will only be good to 1500 watts( 80%) of the max. rating of the breaker which would be 1800 watts. So you might be pushing the limits of that breaker if the appliances cycle on at the same time.

I am now exhausted from thinking about your appliance warehouse you got in your garage. I say say put them up for sale and Greenbuttskunk or Bill Monroe will come get them for you. They are ...or at least seemed to be wholesalers of used appliances and crabpots.

BCF[/quote]

I thought it was strange also that they would have put a 10 gauge wire on a dedicated 20 amp breaker, but I pulled the wire out, compared it to a 12/2 wire, and it is definitely larger. It is only running the one outlet.

As far as my appliance warehouse goes, I can't get rid of anything, they're all full of either fish, beef, crab bait, razor clams, vegetables, beer, salmon eggs, etc, and Monroe already knows where I live from buying other stuff from me....

Jason

Angler of Repose · 10-21-2007, 05:25 PM

The GFCI outlets installed in residential applications are for human safety, They trip at a minimal amount of current. Motors, (ie. refrigerators, garage door openers, freezers) will trip these GFCIs. They make GFI breakers for mechanical loads such as heat trace that do not trip so readily, but they are too expensive for a residential application. Do what BCF recommended and install a single outlet that is the only load served by the breaker.