More bass bashing

[1bigfish]

You may want to check this out.

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=170822

:lurk:

[MXRacer105]

Originally Posted by 1bigfish

You may want to check this out.

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=170822

:lurk:

Thanks for the heads up, enjoyed and agreed with your arguments and comments. Although, as bass fisherman, we should have known that "our species" is single handedly ruining their salmon/steelhead runs!!

[Jennie@ifish]

Wait a minute-- What's fair is fair, right?
Didn't you guys get upset when they came to bash bass, and yet... it's OK to go over there and bash?

I was asked to point this out. I hope you take it into consideration. I don't want to start a fight, I just want you to realize that it's kinda the same, both ways. Dontcha think?

Thanks,
Jen

[1bigfish]

With all due respect Jennie, we did not go over there and bash salmon. I was the one who posted this on B&P page. My intent was not for people to go to that thread and bash salmon but for people to be aware of what is going on. I find this topic very timely as many of us(bass lovers) are watching all the talk about the CCA. This board is about sharing info on fishing. This link was post with the intent of sharing some very intersting information about the mindset of SOME of the people who would like to see the demise of the fish we love.

[FishNChip]

Originally Posted by Jennie@ifish

Wait a minute-- What's fair is fair, right?
Didn't you guys get upset when they came to bash bass, and yet... it's OK to go over there and bash?

I was asked to point this out. I hope you take it into consideration. I don't want to start a fight, I just want you to realize that it's kinda the same, both ways. Dontcha think?

Thanks,
Jen

Hey Jen,
With all due respect, Who's bashing? I think it is totally direspectful (bashing) to suggest wiping out a current viable fishery (Smallmouth). I think any of the bass guys are just trying to rightly defend their chosen species.
Alex

[MXRacer105]

Jen

With total respect, I don't believe any of the bass fisherman posts in the community board are intended to "bash" the STS guys. Granted I did make one imflamatory response to a comment I felt was one of the dumbest things I have ever read (and an illegal act), but it was removed. So, minus my now forgot about mistake, we are just trying to stick up for "our species".

I post not to change the minds of the men/women posting, but to give the many, many people who just read these debates another view. If Joe Blow with no fishing expierence or knowledge comes through and reads only what the STS guys are writing and preaching, they have probably brain washed (for a lack of a better phrase) Joe into believing everything that is written. I, for one, will not stand for this. I want everyone reading that thread to hear at least something from the other side before taking a stand. Can you fault me in this?

I am sorry for the incovience this thread has caused you and the other moderators. I was so fed up last night that I told myself I wasn't even going to read it this morning. That lasted about 5 minutes into work this morning, and I had to read and eventually resond....several time....

Honestly, if you don't want the bickering to continue, I would suggest closing the thread. Until then, I will be supporting my fishery, but I will try to be as kind and non-combative as possible.

Again I am sorry....

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Sorry I looked over here... Whats you guy's BIOLOGICAL and ECOLOGICAL position on why the bass shouldn't be classified as an nonnative invasive species preying on in many cases an endangered native species.. The answer to this wouldn't include because they are fun to catch, because salmon guys like to kill fish and thats the real problem, I am the best tidewater egg fishermen ever, hatcheries, dams, etc are problems too. Everyone knows that salmon and steelhead face many issues, bass are just one of them that many feel is being completely ignored.

[MXRacer105]

Originally Posted by willametteriveroutlaw

Sorry I looked over here... Whats you guy's BIOLOGICAL and ECOLOGICAL position on why the bass shouldn't be classified as an nonnative invasive species preying on in many cases an endangered native species.. The answer to this wouldn't include because they are fun to catch, because salmon guys like to kill fish and thats the real problem, I am the best tidewater egg fishermen ever, hatcheries, dams, etc are problems too. Everyone knows that salmon and steelhead face many issues, bass are just one of them that many feel is being completely ignored.

Since my engineering degree did not require me to take any biology or enviromental science classes, I do not have any factual evidence, nor do I believe that bass ARE NOT an nonnative invasive species. But they were introduced nearly 100 years ago in many cases, this did not happen last week. Since there introduction, it has created an amazing fishery that many of us have grown to love.

So why would you destroy one great fishery to help the Salmon fishery in (as many have stated on the other post) a very slight way. Is there not another way to help Salmon more than removing bass? That is the point that I am trying to prove. Why kill an amazing fishery, when you can address your problem in so many ways?

Do you honestly believe that by killing bass you will see your runs return to historic levels? It sure as hell has not happened with the Pike Minnow program, as the runs are worsening as the program continues (please correct me if I am incorrect with this statement).

Your last line should read, "Bass is just ONE of the MANY problems that are being ignored." Correct?

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Originally Posted by MXRacer105

Since my engineering degree did not require me to take any biology or enviromental science classes, I do not have any factual evidence, nor do I believe that bass ARE NOT an nonnative invasive species. But they were introduced nearly 100 years ago in many cases, this did not happen last week. Since there introduction, it has created an amazing fishery that many of us have grown to love.

So why would you destroy one great fishery to help the Salmon fishery in (as many have stated on the other post) a very slight way. Is there not another way to help Salmon more than removing bass? That is the point that I am trying to prove. Why kill an amazing fishery, when you can address your problem in so many ways?

Do you honestly believe that by killing bass you will see your runs return to historic levels? It sure as hell has not happened with the Pike Minnow program, as the runs are worsening as the program continues (please correct me if I am incorrect with this statement).

Your last line should read, "Bass is just ONE of the MANY problems that are being ignored." Correct?

The umpqua has few dams in it (south fork has none) yet the numbers of salmon and steelhead continue on their downward spiral in those rivers. This drop in numbers has an almost direct correlation with the rise in bass numbers. Coincidence ? I'd be willing to bet that the removal of bass would have a much bigger impact in future generations than people are willing to admit. The pike minnow removal wont have a big effect as walleye and other non native predators are moving in to take their place. Bass are just one of many problems correct, but all of the problems need to be addressed. I never said I hated bass they just do not belong in the river systems of the pacific northwest.

So what your saying is that because you like to fish for a nonnative invasive species, that other species should fall victim. What if northern pike were planted in dorena or silcoos, would you have a probelm with that, they'd hurt the bass population.

[bpm2000]

Jen, I have to ask if you even read the thread or if you are just responding to a tip-off.

[JustCallMeDave]

Be nice to the boss lady.

[FishNChip]

southforkcowboy
Steelhead

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: dayville, oregon
Posts: 110


Re: Study: Bass Predation on CR Basin Chinook Smolts
KILL ALL OF THE NON NATIVE FISH IN THE COLUMBIA BASIN!!! On my home river (John Day) they manage the steelhead for catch & release . They say that they are endangered wild fish, but the truth is, they are of wild & hatcherey stock. I have no problem with that, except, they do the same thing thing with a non-native species as well. How can u manage for our native steelies, if you are also managing for Minnesota Green Carp?? I guess some day it will be entertaining to watch Bubba, Buck & Clem, racing around in their Texas carp troller, trying to increase their tournament winnings by catchen' another one of them big ol' bass! I have read the opinion, on this thread, that says dont do anything about them bass & walleye,,,the salmon & steelhead are gonna die off anyhow. DUH! Thats like saying, lets not help our fellow man, woman or child ,, they are just going to die someday. That is IDIOTIC! If the salmon & steelhead do become extinct, we can always re-load the rivers with eastern trash fish. In the mean time, KILL ALL OF THE NON-NATIVE FISH IN THE COLUMBIA BASIN!!! Just my .02

Hey Jen,
Bashing did anyone say BASHING!
Alex

[garyk]

Originally Posted by 1bigfish

You may want to check this out.

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=170822

Yes indeed, with going on 2000 views, bass have never made such a big splash on the main board.

It's all about biology - nothing more.

[nitrobass]

Its about people wanting to fish for what they like to fish for, and when they dont catch what they feel is appropriate they go after the easiest culprit - factual or not.

Its 2007.....this concept of native is starting to get a bit dated....isnt it? Maybe its just too much fun to argue and incite emotions in other people that see things differently.

Hopefully the fishing gods of ifish will determine whats 'native enough' to be socially acceptable to enjoy fishing for...

Originally Posted by garyk

Yes indeed, with going on 2000 views, bass have never made such a big splash on the main board.

It's all about biology - nothing more.

[built2fish]

Why don't the salmon fisherman come up with a realistic goal? Like I heard in a post on the sts board, the guys good at bass fishing practice catch and release by choice. It's not gonna turn into, "Yeah, now I can finally take my tournement stringer home with me and kill my entire pre-fish catch!" Talk about eliminating nets or something feasable. Tell you what.... if the salmon guys wanna eliminate the smallmouth in the columbia river go for it.... good luck with that. Know the problem with that idea is then all the salmon guys will buy bass boats and start to love bass fishing and then they will follow us and steal all our spots.... and in no time at all they will be C&R guys to!

[1bigfish]

Originally Posted by Jooky

1. Why do most bass guys catch and release? There are well developed and are not a threatened species.. do they taste bad? Thats how they do it on TV? Afraid they are radio active from eating Hanford pollution?

We C&R because we care about the our fish and want to make sure they are here for future generations to enjoy.

Radio active? No. But I fish the Willy if you want to eat the fish I catch from there I will even cook them for you.

2. I see this like motor oil.. if one person dumps oil into the catch basin on the street its not too bad.. but when everyone does it then there is a noticeable change.... so if more people would keep there bass/warmwater fish there would be less to eat salmon smolts.

There are specific river that do need to be thinned of bass just as there are placed where the deer need to be thinned.

Glad to see you think of bass as nothing more then motor oil.

3. Everything adds up.. nets, logging, dams, exotic species, habitat.. we start changing the things that are easiest/cheapest to fix. Can we fix the dams..no. but we can fix the nets and the habitat.. So a few of you are saying the fish are here and there is no way to get them out.. well ya thats probably true, but we can manage there numbers to be less detrimental to the environment... thats easy. Change the limit.

If you want the limits changed you are talking to the wrong people. ODFW controls the limit no the fisherman. But there is already a thread on the Community page if you want to really dicuss the problem. The link is at the top of this post if you cant find it. But if your real intent was to come here and stir the pot, by thanks for stopping by.

[built2fish]

Quote from 1bigfish:
If you want the limits changed you are talking to the wrong people. ODFW controls the limit no the fisherman. But there is already a thread on the Community page if you want to really dicuss the problem. The link is at the top of this post if you cant find it. But if your real intent was to come here and stir the pot, by thanks for stopping by.

[iangler]

Originally Posted by Jennie@ifish

Wait a minute-- What's fair is fair, right?
Didn't you guys get upset when they came to bash bass, and yet... it's OK to go over there and bash?

Well the thread was started over there to bash, I think the bass anglers are defending???? I wish you'd be more neutral considering your status here

[River Ranger]

Originally Posted by iangler

Well the thread was started over there to bash, I think the bass anglers are defending???? I wish you'd be more neutral considering your status here

I think what she is refering to is in the past there was some Bass bashing on the bass page, careful when you call Jennie out.

RR.

[boblag]

Them here: "Kill all bass." Us there: "Please don't kill all of our bass." See the difference?

[iangler]

Originally Posted by River Ranger

I think what she is refering to is in the past there was some Bass bashing on the bass page, careful when you call Jennie out.

RR.

RR, I'm refering to this comment by Jennie>

"it's OK to go over there and bash?"

wrote as if that is what is happening.
Guys are going over to that thread to defend, not bash.
If we were dicussing (bashing) the anti-warmwater guys in here then I'd understand, but that's not what is happening THIS TIME.
You're the one that seems to be getting hot about it in that thread anyways.
I was a bit offended by what Jennie wrote, so I posted. What is there to be careful about?

[River Ranger]

I guess it's all in how you read it, none of my type is in bold or caps( except one time) which would indicate I was getting hot. passionate about a resource I love, sure. At no time do I personally feel I offended anyone. If they don't like what I have to say about exotics they have to understand it's the fish not the fishermen I don't like.

If you could have been around for the old thread that was on this board I think you would understand better what Jen is refering to, thats all.

RR.

[iangler]

And what makes you think I wasn't just doing this before
:lurk::lurk::lurk::lurk::lurk:

[1bigfish]

Originally Posted by Jennie@ifish

Wait a minute-- What's fair is fair, right?
Didn't you guys get upset when they came to bash bass, and yet... it's OK to go over there and bash?

I was asked to point this out. I hope you take it into consideration. I don't want to start a fight, I just want you to realize that it's kinda the same, both ways. Dontcha think?

Thanks,
Jen

Jennie can correct me if I am wrong so here it goes..

Jennie does understand the differance between defending the fish we love and bashing on someone elses fish. Think of this as a friendly reminder from Jennie that she is watching what we say and how we say it. Jennie will not be upset with us for defending our fish but if we start bashing someone elses fish or bashing other fisherman then there is a problem. I believe Jennie was more concern about what road this thread might go down and worried that we would go to the other thread and get out of control. As long as we do things the right way and don't attack other people or thier fish all will be fine.

I would like to thank the people (on both sides of the fence) that have keeped kept their post clean on both threads. As for the ones who didn't keep it clean, well Jennie know who they are.

[River Ranger]

No one is bashing Bass, but defending Salmon and Steelhead. This did not start with people saying "Bass suck", "their no fun who would want to catch a bass". It started with the discussion of how bad is the impact of predation on Salmon and Steelhead stocks by exotics.
so again it's how you read it,I could say your bashing Salmon and Steelhead by supporting exotics,, thoughI know thats not what is happening.

RR.

[1bigfish]

You are correct that thread did not start with "people saying "Bass suck", "their no fun who would want to catch a bass". I started this thread only after reading comments like "trash fish" "if ya like bass fishin, then move to Florida, or Texas". Now does that sound like defending salmon or bashing? Check the date and time of when I started this thread and you will find these comments were made before I started this thread.

Like I said I'm glad that MOST people stuck to the issue but don't try and say there was no bashing.

[PRINCEMASTER]

For my own personal choice if I had to choose between salmon and walleye...walleye would win everytime. Plain and simple they taste better and although the fight is not as good they need alot less maint. to keep them hardy. Bass although I dont normally traget them taste decent and have a great fight for their size. Change is all part of history....one constant there is always will be change. Dont get me wrong I love to salmon fish and will continue doing so.

I came from Michigan where there are plenty of all and the planting works great. The only real difference I dont see is the commercial netting pressure is not there like it is in this area and no sea lions. We did not have pike minnows there BUT did have northern pike and musky. Talk about predator fish those two are far and away worse than any predator fish out here. I dont believe anyone really can tell you what kind of fish were here when time began so every fish may be considered non native.

I also saw a post about the shad. If we get rid of them the sturgeon will suffer at that time of year and also be looking for another form of food.

I dont have an answer for the salmon problem, but do believe trying to get rid of exotics is not the answer as maybe we we go back far enough in history the salmon and trout might be part of. Just food for thought.

[fishlipper]

River Ranger,
The difference is we are not going over to the STS board and telling you we want all salmon eradicated from our bass waters because the Salmon,Steelhead, Trout, etc. are to much competition for our bass, so we should kill them all. That is the biggest difference on how the STS guys defend versus the bass guys. I have been on this board for a while and I have never seen any bass guys putting down Salmon and Steelhead fishing, yet the STS guys bash bass and bass fishing multiple times a year. I started out Salmon and Steelhead fishing for many years, and I just flat out prefer catching bass now, but I still love salmon and steelhead fishing and will continue to do it too. I understand Salmon and Steelhead numbers are down, but there are many other reasons to focus on than bass. Take a look at history, and you will see the bass have been in the rivers for many many years, even when the run of fish was epic. I think you need to look a little deeper on the issues than just blaming bass for the declines.

MY 2 cents

[1bigfish]

Originally Posted by PRINCEMASTER

I came from Michigan where there are plenty of all and the planting works great.

I fished for salmon in Lake Michigan a time or two. Over there the salmon are the nonnative exotic species.

[River Ranger]

Fishlipper. again where did you see that bass held all the blame? it is just one of the many problems salmon and steelhead face I don't think anyone said otherwise.

No one is saying take Salmon and steelhead out of bass waters because they were there first and don't harm bass, just give them something to eat. there would be no sound reason for a warmwater fisher to bash slamon trout and steelhead.

Yes bass were around when runs were epic but not near the numbers and locations they are now. you'll also notice that as bass populations have grown all over the state while salmon and steelhead numbers have fallen. this is mostly due to loss of habitat, dams and commercial fishing. But predation is an issue not to be overlooked no matter what the impact.

1bigfish, your right those comments do no good for the discussion. Last time this topic came up a basser said all us purists (sp?) should move to Alaska if we want to catch STS

RR.

[BassinFever]

Let me just interject this little fact:

I know that we are talking mainly about the Columbia and the Willamet but let me say this about the Umpqua.

Back about 50 years ago I would fish for anything that swam, it was just in me to fish! I lived in Dixonville, Just East of Roseburg on the North Umpqua Hiway. When my mom would go into Roseburg and visit freinds, I would take my fishing pole and go down to the South Umpqua river and fish for Chubs, Pikeminnow or what ever you want to call them. This was WAY before there were ever Smallmouth in the river. I could catch one about every cast, many in the 20+ inch range. I used skin strips for bait off the first fish I caught. I never released one of them alive and took many home to plant under the roses. What I,m trying to say is that many of the fish I caught had salmon and steelhead smolts in them. I think that they were much more agressive than the Smallmouth are now. Even though there are a few (Chubs) left in the system, the Smallmouth have thinned them down a lot. As well as the Suckers. Just repalced a worthless fish with a game fish which added to the economy. I think that the Umpqua system is much healthier now than before the Smallmouth came out of no where.

Making it leagal to shoot Cormaraunts and thinning seals and sealions would do a better job than messing with the Bass.

Killing fish to protect another fish?????

Killing is killing, why not Cormaraunts and seals????

[River Ranger]

Your right, why not Birds and Seals? But why not all predators?

RR.

[BassinFever]

Originally Posted by River Ranger

Your right, why not Birds and Seals? But why not all predators?

RR.

Nearly every living animal is a preditor of sorts!

The earth is a very complicated thing, and people make it even more so. Everyone will never be happy.

Back when I was talking about in my orginal post it was concidered recreation to come to the coast and walk out on the jetties and shoot seals and sealions.

Cattle and sheep people don't want the cougars, wolves and coyotes.

We don't want mice and rats in the house.

You can't build here because of a Kangaroo Rat!

You can't log because of the an owl! I heard the other day that there is another owl that is killing the spotted owl and they want to kill that species to protect the other????????????

[Jennie@ifish]

Actually, BPM is right on the money... and thank you, 1bigfish, for spelling it out... (And I still haven't read the whole thread... I wish I had the time and the 'feel good' but I've been ill!)

Have a nice day,

Jen

[Jennie@ifish]

...and by the way, bass dooooo suck!


You should see 'um suck up those jigs on the Umpqua! Whaaaaaaaaaaaa hoooooo!

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Originally Posted by BassinFever

Let me just interject this little fact:

I know that we are talking mainly about the Columbia and the Willamet but let me say this about the Umpqua.

Back about 50 years ago I would fish for anything that swam, it was just in me to fish! I lived in Dixonville, Just East of Roseburg on the North Umpqua Hiway. When my mom would go into Roseburg and visit freinds, I would take my fishing pole and go down to the South Umpqua river and fish for Chubs, Pikeminnow or what ever you want to call them. This was WAY before there were ever Smallmouth in the river. I could catch one about every cast, many in the 20+ inch range. I used skin strips for bait off the first fish I caught. I never released one of them alive and took many home to plant under the roses. What I,m trying to say is that many of the fish I caught had salmon and steelhead smolts in them. I think that they were much more agressive than the Smallmouth are now. Even though there are a few (Chubs) left in the system, the Smallmouth have thinned them down a lot. As well as the Suckers. Just repalced a worthless fish with a game fish which added to the economy. I think that the Umpqua system is much healthier now than before the Smallmouth came out of no where.

Making it leagal to shoot Cormaraunts and thinning seals and sealions would do a better job than messing with the Bass.

Killing fish to protect another fish?????

Killing is killing, why not Cormaraunts and seals????

There is no way it is healthier, The worthless suckers clean up alot of the algae that is in the rocks and gravel which makes for healthier spawing areas. Have you seen the amount of algae in the south now.

http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-SPEC.../pr-10210.html

On the south umpqua the native coho and native springers are depressed at best and most likely soon to be listed as threatned or endangered. This can definatley be linked to small mouth bass. (there are other factors as well) But both of those species spend a large amount of time in fresh water rearing. There isn't a hatchery run of either species in this system. the fall chinook are doing poorly too. There have been other issue, but bass have played a large part. The cuttthroat are soon to be listed as well.

[BassinFever]

I didn't read the whole link, but I can tell you this.

I fished for trout long before there were even Bass in the Umpqua and I can tell you that the South river has NEVER been any kind of a trout stream unless you went up by Tiller. Also, I never caught a Cutthrout trout in the North river and I fished it a lot. I.m not saying that they were not there, but there has never in the 50 years I have been running the banks of the river been what I would call any kind of a population.

The South river has been a slimey mess from Myrtle Creek North forever in the late summer.

[iangler]

Anyone else notice stuff like this?
It seems people are out looking for an excuse to blame the bass.
Sure, bass has some impact on the system, and I am for preventing more waters to get populated by bass. But to create false facts to make it look worse than it is? How convenient.

BassinFever is not the only guy that has said this. I know several OLD Umpqua valley locals that have been fishing for years say the same thing. So who's correct? The locals that have been fishing the system for years? or some scientist that goes in and does a fish count (that's not all they do, but you know what I mean).

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by BassinFever

Nearly every living animal is a preditor of sorts!

The earth is a very complicated thing, and people make it even more so. Everyone will never be happy.

Back when I was talking about in my orginal post it was concidered recreation to come to the coast and walk out on the jetties and shoot seals and sealions.

Cattle and sheep people don't want the cougars, wolves and coyotes.

We don't want mice and rats in the house.

You can't build here because of a Kangaroo Rat!

You can't log because of the an owl! I heard the other day that there is another owl that is killing the spotted owl and they want to kill that species to protect the other????????????

[BrushApe]

Been gone for a week and just had a chance to catch up on some reading. South Umpqua keeps coming up. The South gets so warm it is not habitable by salmonids in the summer. (The Galesville dam actually helped Cow Creek in that the dam releases cooler water which has helped the up river trout fishery on Cow Creek, a trib of the South.) One of the major issues on the South is the increased water demands on the river by human population. You keep taking water away, it gets shallower and then warmer and then salmonids can't survive and disappear. Bass are not the problem, they are just taking over a niche we created by abusing or over using our water resources. Add on global warming issues, milder winters, less snow pack, warm ocean currents bringing tuna within spitting distance to our shores, and salmon and steelhead are going to suffer. I fish for salmon steelhead and all warmwater, I just like to fish and eat some to. The way I see it, we are the problem, not the fish!

BA

[willametteriveroutlaw]

Originally Posted by AuntyM

I don't know if the following WDFW study was posted in the previous 5 pages, but I thought some might find it interesting.

Attachment 5351

I thought this was interesting.. Just as an FYI the coho smolts live in river for a year or more which makes them very succeptable to bass predation. Also the cutthroat that they are talking about listing are the wild sea runs that get predated upon by the mainstem bass. The marshy back waters are what coho smolts rear in (what the south fork looks like all summer).

Its the same kind of slow moving water like siltcoos and takenitch lakes which runs are also shadows of their former greatness.

No one is saying that bass don't have their place, just not in competition with native fish in our river systems.

[anglingaddict]

Originally Posted by 1bigfish

I fished for salmon in Lake Michigan a time or two. Over there the salmon are the nonnative exotic species.

Yep! The stock they planted there came from here I believe in the mid to late 60's. They have thrived very well too!!