Native steelies vs. hatchery brats --- is there a fighting difference?

Thumper · 08-18-2001, 02:00 PM

Bigstew and I have a difference of opinion. He feels that native steelhead usually fight much harder than hatchery fish. My experience is that if you were blindfolded you usually couldn't tell the difference. In our SW Washington streams the winter natives this year were huge (some well over 20 pounds) but didn't fight all that well. But our NF Lewis summer hatchery fish (planted by Fish First I suspect) have been consistently large (9-14 pounds) and fight like the dickens. I just don't think that a native fish consistently outfights a hatchery fish, at least in our waters here. What is the experience of other Ifishers?

08-18-2001, 02:05 PM

Jack , I've based my opinion on the Wilson river hatchery fish which are Alsea strain and all in all an infererior fish ofr the most part as far as fighting quality goes. The native Wilson fish are tremendous fighters and in a class by themselves IMHO. I think it must have a lot to do with the particular strain you are dealing with. Kind of like the Pepsi challenge huh Jack [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Stew

Thumper · 08-18-2001, 02:10 PM

That could be........a stream by stream difference. Other experiences??

Salmonator · 08-18-2001, 02:49 PM

I'm sure there are exceptions but from what i've caught myself I would say 100% yes. Of course as stew mentioned I am comparing Alsea fish that used to be in the Siletz and fish caught in the Alsea itself to siletz broodstock. I heard two years ago from a hatchery worker that a broodstock system was to be started on the Alsea. Anybody know the latest on this?

willierower · 08-18-2001, 02:54 PM

WATER TEMPATURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since most hatchery winter brats return to the rivers in Decemeber and January when the air and water temps are te lowest of the year. And The bulk of the wild fish show in Febuary, March and April when the air and water temps are a little higher.
Get a good thermometer and start recording the temp. of the water while you are fishing. You will find that the water temps are a few degrees warmer later in the winter than they are earlier in the season.
Thats just my opinion.....

Salmonator · 08-18-2001, 03:07 PM

WR, I agree completely about fish being lethargic in the colder water but i've caught broodstock fish in late december and all through january and i'd put a broodstocker up against an inbred brat given the same water temp any day.

Fishin Magician · 08-18-2001, 04:35 PM

I agree with salmonator and WR. water temp is a factor. It has a lot to do with the fish too. Who is a harder fighter......Mike Tyson or Richard Simmons????????

Snapset · 08-18-2001, 06:30 PM

My 2 cents:
Smaller fish fight better, come out of the water more and are a lot more likely to rip the rod out of your hands when they strike.

That said, I have found that natives the same size as hatchery fish are more aggressive strikers, and much more valiant fighters. In fact, there have been times when I thought I had tail-hooked a fish but it turned out to be a fair-hooked native. (Equal Outcome)

Uncle Roman · 08-18-2001, 06:34 PM

[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]Hey WR, Thats the most reasonable thing I've ever heard regarding the hatchery vs. wild debate. I always thought natives fought harder in peoples imagination, only. But hey, they're both fun, and maybe I should shut up and imagine I'm fighting a fish right now.

dawhunt · 08-18-2001, 06:41 PM

Natives fight harder !!!!!
Bob dawson

fishpatrol · 08-18-2001, 07:00 PM

In my experience the natives put up more of a struggle.
But given the choice of fighting brain dead purina fish or no fish at all- well, we need to keep those feed lots going!

Fishen Fool · 08-18-2001, 08:32 PM

I say that there isn't that much difference in the fight. Iv'e had natives that didn't fight worth a damm and the same with hatcherys. By the same token Ive had both of them fight like mad, so I think it is just a difference in individual fish! Just my .02 cents worth.

Salmonator · 08-18-2001, 08:48 PM

Fishen fool targets spawned out fish. ALL his fish are wore out when he catches them, hence no difference in fight...

Capin' Dan · 08-19-2001, 12:36 AM

I agree with Stew on this one. I am about 90% accurate when I say that I have a native steely or silver on. I think there is a definite difference and this is on the Cowlitz and ocean.

Dan!

Crusin · 08-19-2001, 04:56 AM

They both seem to be equally capable of throwing my hook...

Fin · 08-19-2001, 05:45 AM

Jack, as you and I have discussed many times, I can't say that the hatchery fish I have caught are inferior fighters. In fact, I have been disapppinted at the fight of some natives.(but still please to catch a fish)

The summer fish the year on the Lewis were the top of the line, and the hatchery strain is superb.

I would much rather catch a hatchery brat than have no fish in the river.

willierower · 08-19-2001, 03:35 PM

Why are so many people down on hatchery fish? Thats just the attitude that some people would like you to have. There are people that would like to all hatcheries closed and all hatchery plants stopped.
Personallly I could care less if the steelhead I hook is wild or hatchery. Most times even a hatchery steelhead is going back in the river after I land it.
Instead of bashing hatchery fish, We should be glad they are available to catch. Without them we wouldnt have as many opertunties for hooking fish.

Thumper · 08-19-2001, 04:03 PM

Willierower, your "TEMPERATURE" response makes the most sense of all to me. Looking back, the fish in my experience that have fought the hardest, whether hatchery or native, have been caught in water that is ideal (temps in the 50s). I think that is the answer!

DanS · 08-19-2001, 06:44 PM

If you catch, say, more than a dozen natives a year and 10 or 20 hatchery fish a year or more, you'll start to see a noticeable difference between nates and hatchery fish. You need to catch that many in order to see much difference, because as everybody else has said, water temps and the individual fish have a lot to do with it.

I've hooked many hatchery fish that kicked the crap out of me, and I've hooked natives that fought like a stick, but the most memorable fights I've had have been native fish. I had a native Hoh summer run hen put a blister the size of a dime on my thumb, and then tailwalk half a dozen times from side to side. After almost 30 years of steelheading, that fish stands out as the definition of what a steelhead can do. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Saying nates fight harder on average isn't a knock on hatchery fish......but nates have the best of the best genes, or they wouldn't be there. You would expect them to put up a little better fight.

I NEVER look a gift horse in the mouth, when it comes to hooking fish. I'm glad every time I hook up, whether it's a brat or a nate. Most steelhead put up a pretty good fight, unless the water's **** cold or you found the underacheiver of the run. It's hard not to get a smile on your face when you're fighting a steelie. Just be glad you got the chance............. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Sand Shrimp · 08-19-2001, 09:10 PM

For the most part natives fight better than hatchery steelhead but those Skamania strain summer steelhead fight as hard as any steelhead around.

First Bite · 08-19-2001, 11:35 PM

I think the hatchery fish pound for pound are not as hard fighters. But I have noticed that in the fall when the water temperature drops to around the mid 50's or in late spring when the water warms up then it seems like all the fish fight their hardest.
Mark

Fishen Fool · 08-20-2001, 05:55 PM

WILLYROWER you are my hero, Salmonator you ain't!