Surprise! Dealing with rogue waves

[Pilar]

Something we tried to discuss lately .. I think deserves more discussion.

So if we can avoid all the stuff about comparing experience levels and the validity of comments based on experience level and blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, blah Thanks.

What do you do when a larger wave gets to your boat? You've seen em. Sneakers, 2x the average, boat wakes, bar standing waves, breaking bar waves, shore break. All manner of surprises out there on the ocean. Obvious things are avoid bad or marginal ocean conditions, boat size matters and I'm sure there are others. But we all have some things in common when we run a boat.

Things like

Is there anything you can do to prepare?

What is the correct reaction if you see it coming in time?

What is the best way to take the wave with respect to boat orientation?

I'm looking for a discussion here. Some have alot of experience some have a little. Most of us are paying attention and we all have stories to tell.

The scenario is you get broadside or tail to a big wave, people get thrown, water in the boat and ???

[NWJet]

Originally Posted by Pilar

Something we tried to discuss lately .. I think deserves more discussion.

So if we can avoid all the stuff about comparing experience levels and the validity of comments based on experience level and blah, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, blah Thanks.

What do you do when a larger wave gets to your boat? You've seen em. Sneakers, 2x the average, boat wakes, bar standing waves, breaking bar waves, shore break. All manner of surprises out there on the ocean. Obvious things are avoid bad or marginal ocean conditions, boat size matters and I'm sure there are others. But we all have some things in common when we run a boat.

Things like

Is there anything you can do to prepare?

What is the correct reaction if you see it coming in time?

What is the best way to take the wave with respect to boat orientation?

I'm looking for a discussion here. Some have alot of experience some have a little. Most of us are paying attention and we all have stories to tell.

The scenario is you get broadside or tail to a big wave, people get thrown, water in the boat and ???

inexperianced here but maybe i can get useful info from this thread
i will be waiting

[Cloud-Nine]

Inexperianced but here are my thoughts. Into at an angle of about 30 deg.
Reason-- You have to climb over the wave and at 30 deg.angle you you have the same height but about a 1/3 greater distance. This creates a less steep approach, which gives you a better chance to power over the wave.
This is a SWAG but my 2 cents

[snaggedup]

While crossing the bar at Bandon ( not one of Oregons better bars. Was sitting and studing the wave sets , trying to figure out the sequence . When a charter passed me and
bombed on out , I thought ok follow him, wrong!Lets just say i was glad for my windshield and top and suspension seats. After we gathered or thoughts which was really quick
We got the hell out of there before we met another one.
Considered that my wake up call , guess who's double
careful now. Funny how when all you can see in your windshied is water invokes the word o-sh*t !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Terry

[Moldy45]

This kinda thing almost cost a guy I know his life a couple years ago on the middle grounds at Tilly,if you dig the archives you could probably find it posted from the guys that saved him.There were a couple boats that seen it ahead of time and turned bow into it and came out ok,he didnt see it till it was right at the SIDE of his boat as he was alone and running his kicker from the back of his boat and all alone.
I have not had to deal with a sneaker of that size but I only hope to have enough eyes on spot to be able to catch it in time to bow into it.
If I get one as big as the one in the movie perfect storm I am all ears as to what I should do

[SecondSeason]

IMHO only 2 things you need

1: buddy boat

2: life jackets


these come at you fast too damn fast to be prepared.

experience.....

oh yeah and real good insurance.....

[Yakutat Wild]

In my own opinion there is no such thing as a sneaker wave. A sneaker wave is one that just caught you sleeping. If you are on the ocean and operating a boat, you should always be aware of your surroundings, never let your guard down. I am not saying that the sea is this big scary monster that will eat you i am saying that it is always going to be your call on what you are going to operate in. If you are not comfortable with the water stay inside the jaws. If you get caught on a rough bar you should of paid more attention to the weather, tide, visibility, size of your boat, and everything else that you need to be aware of before you cast off your lines. If by chance you run into problems that are beyond your control such as mechanical failure then you are going to have to take action to get yourself out of harms way. Always carry an anchor on your boat in case you have to throw the pick over the side to keep yourself from being set on the beach, or if you are on the inside you can hold yourself from being sucked out through the tips on an ebb tide. Sorry if I sound like I am venting but I am tired of the sneaker wave excuse. We lose to many people every year to the so called "sneaker wave". The news doesnt mention that they where just to busy fighting a fish or taking pictures to see that they got themselves in an area that the had no buisness being in. To answer the question that was asked earlier keep your bow square to the oncoming wave, dont try to take one at an angle, most of us that are out there fishing dont have enough free board to allow the boat to be tipped on any kind of an angle. Take it head on with enough power to get your boat through. "When in doubt, power out".

[Lepper]

Sneaker wave is a term used to describe disproportionately large coastal waves that can often appear in a wave train without warning. Sneaker waves form when the energy of a number of smaller waves becomes "focused," meaning that several smaller waves have run into each other and created what is known as constructive interference. Constructive interference means that the individual wave peaks coincided and created a new wave that is the sum of those that were superimposed. This is similar to the way deep ocean rogue waves are thought to form, albeit on a much smaller scale.
Because they are much larger than preceding waves, sneaker waves can catch unwary swimmers, washing them out to sea. Sneaker waves are a universal coastal phenomenon, although they are known to be more common in some areas than others; in the United States, Northern California, Oregon and Washington are particularly affected.

according to that def. you could be going over a perfectly fine bar and still runinto the "sneaker wave"

[skein]

From my perspective, I try to ALWAYS keep the boat as balanced as possible. If a cooler on one side is getting full of fish and creating a natural list, move it where it has less of an effect. If three guys are on one side fighting and gaffing a fish, move to the other side and maybe ask one of them to step back toward the center a little more. Balance the boat.

Why? Because the effects of those sneakers are increased by the boat's attitude -- the way it's sitting in the water.

As for one that catches you sideways or piles up behind you, I agree with Second Season; ya better be wearing your life jacket, 'cause bad things are probably going to happen.

And Yakutat, if you have to use the word "vent" in this thread, then you missed it and need to go back and reread Pilar's original post. If you still think you need to preach to us, then go somewhere else.

Skein

[ctflyfish]

My files on monster waves is a foot high and is the subject of an article I am writing. Lepper is correct concerning how they form, etc. One huge wave was mixed in a train of 12 meter waves and was measured at 26 meters (about 94 feet!) when it hit the Draupner oil rig in the North Sea, on January 1, 1995.

There have been several really huge waves recorded on the West Coast including a 30 meter monster that hit a SEDCO oil drilling off Cape St James in 1968. Average seas rose from 3 meters to 18 meters in only 8 hours.
Some really interesting stuff can be found online by googling "Maxwave Project."
I have everything secured and try to take them head on. If the top is breaking
a skipper can sometimes manuever left or right and take it in a place where it is not breaking.

[5 Salt]

My experience with rogue waves is limited to two incidents in a power boat in Oregon waters and 96hrs of running down wind/swell on 20-25ft on the return crossing of Alantic on a 45ft sail boat. After 4days of huge swells you feel like you can conquer the world and yet we still found ourselves in a bad way a couples of times. Even the rounded stern of our boat can surf into big trouble with a large amount of sail pulling you around

I think it is fairly well documented that is it best to quarter up on a down the face of the sharp waves as opposed to straight into it. The bottom drops up way much more agressively, leaving you to freefall into the trough on the back side when you point straight into them.

My scaryiest moment was three 12-13ft swells breaking open water directly in front of me last September about 1/4 mile outside the Tillimook bar - in the predawn darkness.

Fortunately, the moon gave just enough light for me to make out the white caps perhaps 150yard away. Once I figured out what exactly I was looking at, I immediately ran full-trottle 90degrees to the swell to get away from the breaking portion of the wave.

Upon reaching a safer zone, throttle was reduced to near idle while manuvering to quarter into the wave. Even quartering, the entire boat came out of the water to free fall for what seemed like 10hours. Hitting bottom only to realize there was a 2nd and then, a 3rd wave of equal size tucked tightly in behind the first. Each time requiring a quick recovery to the quartering position and subsequent endless free fall.

What did I learn?

-No more pre-ldawn bar crossings without at least one buddy boat.

Food for thought:
Had I departed the garibaldy marina a couple of minutes later, those rogue waves would have pounded me right in the jaws of the Tilly bar with no room to manuver and no one around to assist or, even witness the incident. No doubt in my mind the situation would have been most dire had that been the case.

[ron m]

What I'd do if I see a sneaker wave is situational. I'm assuming for this discussion that we're not under way going somewhere. Maybe trolling, maybe drift fishing. I'm also assuming in this situation that the wave is not curling, if it's curling, I might do something a bit different.

If I'm already either mostly bow into it or stern into it, I'd probably get so I'm at a slight angle to it and not change the orientation of bow into it or stern into it.. If I'm totally broadside to it, what I do will probably depend on how far away it is when I see it. If it's far enough, I'd probably try to turn the bow into it at least slightly. If it's really close, I'd turn away from it because there wouldn't be enough time to turn into it as turning into it reduces the time till it hits the boat and turning away from it gives slightly more time till it hits the boat.

Oh, and immeditaely upon seeing it, inform the crew to "hang on" and why. This is a situation in which reacting immediately can make a big difference, hesitation here can be bad. But let the crew know before you drastically change speed or direction as they could get thrown to the deck by your actions and then be in worse trouble when the wave hits.

Not everyone pays much attention to wave size, sometimes you can see a bigger wave a fairly long distance away and sometimes the crests combine very shortly before getting to the boat and can be quite a surprise! I think the big sneaker waves will not form really close to the boat by the crests coinciding, but I have yet to experience a big sneaker wave. For sure I'd just as soon never have that experience. But I spend enough time on the ocean that it could happen, I hope I'll be alert and ready.
ron m

[Pilar]

Good discussion so far thanks.

Please forgive my terminology and feel free to correct it. If you have never been 'surprised' then you will at some point. So far the big surprise moment for me came when my much smaller glass boat fell out from under me near the end of the south TB jetty on the outside. We were salmon fishing like so many do. I looked up as the front of the boat cam up and quick as a wink the wave rolled by and the boat fell out from under me. It really hurt when I fell into it.

A few seconds later a sled about a hundred feet closer to the beach nearly went onto the jetty and a guy fell out of that boat. That wave was probably 3 times the slow, regular 6 footers we saw for several hours before it happened.

The surprise was that such a thing could happen and was a surprise because my limited experience did not allow for such things.

Maintaining a level trim is very good. And further making sure that things can't slide or shift weight to one spot in the boat is good too. I really like under deck fish boxes for this reason. The fish stay put. The fish can be heavy and doubly so in a 1/2 tote or coolers. What happens when they all slide to one side or corner?

Those inflatable PFDs would be pretty handy after you got launched off the boat. And absolutely keep an eye out. It has to be a nice day before I'll get in the cockpit without someone else on the bridge.

And yes a buddy boat is a very good thing. BTW and this is purely anecdotal .. it seems to me that I see way more of this stuff nearshore than I do 30 miles out.

Is it better to quarter a wave or meet it straight on? I will often quarter waves when I am running above troll speed. Less slam on the backside, at least on my Carver anyway. Going straight into a steep one will sometimes punch the top and water across the foredeck. Or come down fast and bang on the backside. Also if I am running fast and come off a steep wave before I can slow it helps to tip the boat from level by jigging slightly left or right as I go over the top.

Broadside is bad on the drift. Roll in general is bad IMO. And we all have backed into waves while fighting a fast drift and fishing deep reefs.

Good stuff.

[Simon Peter]

If I see it coming then I put the nose right at it - maybe just slightly off angle by about 5 degrees. If it is breaking at all then I turn away from the break and move toward the green water of the wave and try to get over it. This is the scary part cause you have to make a judgement call immediately.

The first thing is to always warn everybody at once. This might make the difference as others can do things quickly and if you are steering, somebody elses quick action might be of help.

If you take a bunch of water on and you are captain - start barking orders! DO NOT take your hand off the wheel - keep it straight on the nose and try to keep the bow into the waves. Quite often the first wave throws you off guard and the smaller subsequent waves can finish you off.

I rode a hurricane outside of Hong Kong in 1998. We took 40-60 footers for about 5 days! Got pretty used to taking them on the nose, but when you hit one that was just a bit bigger you could feel it right down in your bowels!

Oh yeah - IF you have your stern to the rogue and you don't have time to turn and take it on the nose - see if you can out run it. Sometimes this is a balancing act, but worth it cause sometimes the wave runs out of steam or changes sequence and gets smaller. Don't worry if you break a rod, it might save your boat!

[Tinman]

One thing to watch out for is engine stalling if the boat falls hard off the backside of a wave. I've done this a couple of times crossing a bar, punching over a breaking wave and free-falling down the backside. On both occassions (different boats), the outboard shuddered and sputtered after landing, so I had very little power for a few seconds. Fortunately the engine recovered after a few seconds.

I am not sure why the engine faltered. Perhaps the fuel in the carb bowls got thrown around and momentarily screwed up the fuel/air mixture.

I'm not sure how to combat the problem, other than be ready for a quick restart. When surf launching my dory, I usually put the oars in operating position, ready for instant use in case of motor trouble.

[Deeman]

My . There is a difference between a true rogue or sneaker wave and a set of waves that are larger than what you have been seeing. I dont know that we all have had it happen to us but I have certainly miss-timed a set of waves and been where I didnt want to be before, both off the beach at P.C. and on various Bars. The actions that we take in the rogue instances and sets, it seems to me would be somewhat different. In both cases Basic seamanship should rule the day. Bow on, if possible, power at the bottom to help lift the nose on the way up, chop power near the top to ease the transition and not drive the bow deep into the trough, and reapply power to make way as soon as the nose tries to lift after the descent. A rogue wave in deep water may or may not be breaking or sloughing. It may just be a much larger example of the same wave profile you have had all day, in which case all that is required is admiration for the power of the sea. If its sloughing or breaking Bow on is a must if possible. The wall of water formed by the toppling of the top of the wave can roll a boat very easily, (even a quartered boat) as it strikes the hull above the existing waterline and transfers energy higher. The head of the wave acts like a fulcrum so the boat is not only heeled somewhat but it is pushed the same direction that it is heeling. The quartered boat can be pushed sideways and surfed on the face until the stern quarter digs in and the boat endos. This outcome can be made even more likely be the fact that most are cutting power at or near the crest and the quartered boat will heel toward the downhill face as it tries to get through the white water and requires more momentum to break through at angle than it does if you are straight on allowing the hull to work for you in getting through. Stern on would not be my preferred method for taking on a big one. But if I had to take one stern on try to maintain enough speed for steerage and to keep the boat from being broached on the face. Once the rogue is gone you should be able to de-water if needed. remember it is only a single wave. If waves are from the stern speed is your friend. In short, if possible take the water bow on, that is how your boat was designed to work the best. Second choice, stern on running like my hair was on fire and my tail was catching. Under no circumstances would I choose to take a big breaking wave on at anything other than 90 degrees. No sideways, or quartering for me. Spend a few summers watching the dories in the surf and you can see how waves affect the guys who do not get perpendicular. Take it for what its worth, just how I would or will do it when it happens to me. Again

[Grady252]

Yukatat, you are way off base.... I have plenty of experience in the salt and I have had a "sneaker" sneak right in on me hidden in the midst of regular sets..... It can happen even if you are paying attention. It is great to have experience and pay constant attention, but if you get to indignant like the captain can prevent everything you might be in for a surprise someday. Even the best captains have had their share of fun stuff.......

I have not had sneakers on nice days, but usually when it is a little snotty to beggin with, so they are even harder to spot. When trolling for salmon 8 years ago I had my 22' boat drop down into a hole and a wall of water came over the top of my boat that I thought was going to break my windshield. The water flowed over the top and dumped a foot of water in my boat.

The bottom dropped out, I was sitting at the helm steering the boat, and paying attention and there it was looking me in the face.....

Thankfully it was a "sneaker" only one single wave and it allowed me to recover and my bilge got pumped out quick. Scared the hell out of the three on board, and shortly after we called it a day, just because our nerves were shot.

[greenbuttskunk]

I have encountered rogue sneaker waves also. Off garibaldi as well as the great lakes. I have done well quartering into the wave also. Like 5-salt, I watch the approaching wave and accelerate until I know I've timed it correctly, then pass over and into the backside trough. One important thing to remember is if you have time, MAKE SURE you alert your crew. Often they will be fishing, looking off the back of the boat, or sleeping. Often the boat will pitch quickly and violently and it does not take much to throw a passenger off his feet, into a dangerous object or into the water. The skipper may see the wave coming, make sure everyone else does or is ready to get stable and prepare. This goes for any abrupt maneuver too.

I few years ago off Garabaldi there was one of those common larger waves that approached the south jetty. It caught a sled off guard who never managed to turn into it. The wave picked them up, nearly overturned the boat, slamming them down the back. One guy broke an ankle.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Just one more reason crew should not be sleeping on the boat (one of my pet peeves).

The captains head is not on a rotating swivel looking all directions at all times. If the whole crew is awake and looking around at all times, things like logs at sea, whales, waves, crab floats and anything else that might be danger have a much higher probability of being seen and dealt with, as opposed to all being at risk.

[ANDYCOHO]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

Just one more reason crew should not be sleeping on the boat (one of my pet peeves).

The captains head is not on a rotating swivel looking all directions at all times. If the whole crew is awake and looking around at all times, things like logs at sea, whales, waves, crab floats and anything else that might be danger have a much higher probability of being seen and dealt with, as opposed to all being at risk.

Oh, and immeditaely upon seeing it, inform the crew to "hang on" and why. This is a situation in which reacting immediately can make a big difference, hesitation here can be bad. But let the crew know before you drastically change speed or direction as they could get thrown to the deck by your actions and then be in worse trouble when the wave hits.

I'll do one more and have everyone assume a "Lower Center of Gravity", I learned this the "Hard" way a couple boats back that had a higher center of gravity. The boat would list, then "Sling shot" back, righting itself, and throw crew, gear and coolers with incredible force. But since having everyone take a knee or knees has saved some injuries.

[8knots]

I agree that sneaker vs. rogue are two different things. I believe we are all much more likely to encounter sneaker wave sets as opposed to rogue waves. It would be interesting to hear what fulltime ******* have to say about rogue waves. In years of surfing, boating and two months on ships that included a typhoon off Hong Kong, I don't think a rogue wave was encountered.

Analogous to encountering sneaker waves is surfing bigger waves. It is a fairly common occurence during large swell conditions to have outside sets come through as 'cleanup sets'. These larger sets break outside the lineup and if you are not lucky enough to get over the set you get cleaned up by being caught inside. When paddling up the face of steep, large waves you would not want to be anything but head-on as you try to punch over and through the lip. This is true in bigger waves=sneaker waves=rogue waves. On the more common 2-6 foot swells we fish in we quartering the waves (or wakes) reduces hull impact.

[fishing junkie]

Quartering into the waves is the best ride if the wave isn't too big. That said, on a very large wave you want to be straight on, or you take the chance of being flipped. Typically isn't the first wave the flips you, it's the second or thrid. If you are quartered that first wave can push you farther towards broadside if you don't have enough power to the props to straighten you out. That is what happened to the Taki Too.

In that case I would tell my crew to hold on, remind myself where the throw ring is, turn the bildge pumps on, turn straight into the wave, and apply some throttle to provide enough momentum to carry the boat through the wave (my crew always has a life jacket on, so no worries for me about scrambling to get them on). We might crash to the bottom of it, but it wont turn me broadside to be caught by the second wave. The second one is the one to worry about. Have enough throttle to keep you straight for the subsequent waves.

After the wave series survey the boat to make sure there was no damage and that you aren't taking water into the bildge from a crack or broken thru hull.

[Hoghunter]

Sneakers and rogue waves can appear out of nowhere and happen anytime. That being said, my experience has been that dangerous waves have always appeared in conditions that were marginal for the ocean. By marginal I mean the weather is already iffy and should put you on high alert.

I've fished Garibaldi for many years and have personally witnessed several boats go down in the middle ground and off the south jetty. Everytime this happened the conditions seemed ripe for something like that to happen. Anytime the waves get to 6 to 8' you have a good chance that somewhere in there will be a bigger set. In conditions like this I stay out of the known dangerous spots and I watch to the west constantly for the approach of large sets.

I have a few basic rules that I live by 1) Someone is always looking in the direction of the waves 2) When I do spot them coming, I will immediately start the big motors and power into the wave, if a fishing rod is lost in the process who cares. I'm a lot more worried about life than a fishing pole. If the wave is breaking then I'm going to take it head on and not at an angle so that I don't risk being pushed broadside into the next wave 3) Wear your inflatable PFD, when your broadside or stern to and get caught by a large wave or set of large waves then your most likely going in the drink. 4) Avoid dangerous area's when weather conditions dictate.

[Mark Mc]

Pilar you just love to go trolling for debates don't you


I'll stay out of the debate of.... "sneaker" vs "rogue" vs "normal 3 sigma wave"

Deeman's post has some noteworthy stuff in it....


Couple tidbit's I'd add:

- Yes in most moderate to bad seas, or going through a set of steep ones at the entrance, quartering is the norm. But when you are faced with one or two extremely large waves........the biggest one that your boat has ever seen..... that are about to break, you go straight into it. Sure it's going to hurt on the way down, but it's better than being layed on your side, which is what will happen if you quarter it. You can ask me how I know this in private, but I'm not gonna post stories at this time.

- Likelihood of large waves, and how they behave, is quite different in shallow water ( 80 ft & less) vs open sea. A 15 ft wave in the open sea has an altogether different shape & behavior than a 15 footer in 30 feet of water. The "surpize" factor tends to be amplified in shallow water, vs in open water. So the comments about "crew shall not sleep" (or the intent behind it) I believe is more valid when in shallow water, less of a concern in the open sea (as far as anticipating a "surprize").

- This topic started as being about "what do you do if...." Seems like there should be some mention of......prevention, a.k.a. reducing the likelihood of getting in that situation. In that spirit I'd kindly point out that....there are still many, many recreational boaters out there (on ifish too) who still cut corners in channels, prematurely turn north or south outside of bays (such as Yaquina) when there is a moderate swell running (instead of going closer to the outer mid-channel buoy / deeper water). Then they act surprized when, on a seemingly calm day, all of a sudden they are staring at a big green one, as they cross the south reef at Yaquina in 40 feet of water.

We should come up with a name for the kind of wave that surprizes a guy who did not stay in the channel.

[Schubert]

"Look," one friend said. I looked up and a wave was rising out of a flat sea.

I had launched with two friends in my dory off the beach at Pacific City. I motored through the small surf, and out two-thirds of the way toward the end of Cape Kiwanda where I put the motor in neutral to put down the transducer and make other adjustments.

I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The wave kept growing, finally reaching ten to twelve feet high. The top turned a green transluscence with a white crest forming. It would break over the boat.

I put the motor in gear and charged the monster.

Based on previous experience, near the top I pulled back on the throttle hoping to slide down the back of the wave. Unfortunately, it had already broken, leaving me, my crew, and my dory at least ten feet in the air. The fall was brutal. One friend broke her leg.

I went over and over that incident in my mind, trying to figure out what I should have done. I talked to a captain with much more exprience, than I. He told me, keep power all the way through the wave. Really? I asked. Yes, he said. It will keep the bow up and when you fall, the boat will hit transom first, making for a softer landing.

A few weeks later I went out in big surf and tested his advice. I used power all the way through an eight-foot wave about to break. The experience was unreal. I floated, gravity-free for an instant and came down, bow in the air and hit stern first. The landing was incredibly soft. I have since used the same technique several times. What it does is distribute the impact over time, from the stern to the center of the boat to the bow, thus creating a softer landing.

I've been going off the beach in Pacific City for ten years. I now go past the end of the Cape to deeper water before I stop to do boatkeeping adjustments.

This story has a happy ending of sorts. It's been a few years since that day. I'm not sure of their wisdom for those two friends still go to sea with me. What I will always remember is they called me a few days after she was fitted for a walking cast and said, we never thanked you for saving our lives.

[fyshndad]

Ok here is something that I hope no one ever has to go through
7 years ago out of Depoe Bay I went south on a very very nice day
No wind No real swell 2 ft maybe
We headed down south to Otter Rock area and started Fishing

The bite was slow and the rocks were eating our jigs
I was re-rigging when my buddy says "Hank"
As i looked up and saw what was coming I yelled hang on as I laid down on the deck as my only thought was lay down or get knocked down
We took a wave about 12ft over the stern leaving us with about 18 inches of water in the boat

I popped up and headed for the helm only to hear my buddy yell "here comes another one and it is bigger"

I looked back and one about 17 or 18 ft was coming right for us
As I am trying to get the engine started all I could think of was this one will either sink us or push us into the rocks
Well I feel like GOD was looking out for me that day as he does everyday because that wave at about 5 ft from the back of the boat just disappeared and then came up 20 ft in front of the boat allowing me to get the HE** out of there

I have never fished that area since

Another time I was coming in from fishing at the CR and as I approached 2SJ I noticed that waves were breaking on the sunken jetty
The seas were quite snotty and I could not go very fast
The current just kinda sucked me right into the breakers
Once I realized I could not get away from them I pointed the nose right at them and slowed down
The breakers were 6 -8 ft and very close together and I was amazed at how easily my Dory went through them
But had I not turned into it I am sure the outcome would have been very wet

Stuff can and does happen out there and even if totally prepaired one can get caught "OFF GUARD"

Keep your eyes open and your head turning
Be aware of EVERYTHING going on around you at all times

[Chrome Bumper]

This what I learn in the 60s:
1. Never turn your back on the ocean.
2. Stay away from shallow areas where a larger than average wave will crest and/or break.
2. Quarter into the face is best, or quarter down the face if you have too, If quartering down you are more at risk of broaching as your speed is higher, and you are possibly headed for shallower water where the wave will grow further. Also your bow is built to cut the water while your stern is less so.

Good discussion, I will have try the staight in approach abit, I was told to quarter to avoid being pitchpoled.

[Spoonplugger]

An excellent book by Dag Pike entitled “Fast Powerboat Seamanship” I would highly recommend reading. He is also the author of the USCG “Fast Boat Seamanship Manual.” The book covers handling a boat that is capable of operating at speeds of 25 knots and above. He has so many good points that it would be hard to list everything.

A chapter in the book “Wind and Waves” covers several types of waves and how to traverse them. One interesting statistic that he reveals is this: One wave in 23 could be twice the average height, one wave in 1,175 could be three times the average and, most terrifying of all, one wave in 300,000 could be four times the average height. He always recommends to have a reserve of power for maneuverability.

For a large breaking wave he recommends to first try and drive around it. If you can't then he says to power your way through the crest as squarely as possible. He also states that you will probably end up with water in the boat.

The largest wave I've contended with personally was about a 15 feet breaker. I powered the 21 foot Harvey dory through it and put about 50 gallons of water in the boat. Scary stuff.

[Pilar]

Mark Mc .. good stuff thanks. I owe you a barley pop. Maybe when the fishing slows down for the year we can swap stories one evening.

I was hoping some stories would get told. Pretty much every trip the ocean does something new to me. SO much to learn.

[mtpar]

Best post I have read in months / Great info and stories

Thanks Pilar

mtpar

[Chrome Bumper]

We should come up with a name for the kind of wave that surprizes a guy who did not stay in the channel.

Darwin Award? Surf? Breaker?

[Orca]

....there are still many, many recreational boaters out there (on ifish too) who still cut corners in channels, prematurely turn north or south outside of bays (such as Yaquina) when there is a moderate swell running (instead of going closer to the outer mid-channel buoy / deeper water). Then they act surprized when, on a seemingly calm day, all of a sudden they are staring at a big green one, as they cross the south reef at Yaquina in 40 feet of water.

We should come up with a name for the kind of wave that surprizes a guy who did not stay in the channel.

Makes me cringe everytime I see this. You should see the folks who head straight to the end of the N. jetty at Winchester. Often 2 minutes before they do this, there will have been a 5/6/7+ ft breaking wave rolling off the tip. The other one is all the folks fishing behind the N and S jetties at any of the bars.

I could think of some good names, but unfortunately the end result of this practice is going to be some fatalities.

[Nalu]

I have never experienced what I would call a Rogue wave, but have seen a few instances of Sneaker Waves.

In my experience, most of the sneaker waves appear and become dangerous in areas that often exhibit danger during more extreme conditions. What I mean, is that areas that become marginal or nasty when the weather turns bad is also where these sneakers often occur on fairly nice days.

Some examples.....

Flat rock area out of Depoe on the South.
North Reef out of Depoe to the North.
Certain areas around Cape Foulweather/Otter Rock, including just North of the large Wash Rock
The Middle Grounds of Tillamook Bar.
And where one caught us...The North Hole on the Tilly Bar.

I see many, many people cut to the North or South of the buoy in Depoe on nicer days. They run over an area where they would never even consider if the weather was a little marginal. Myself, I try to take the correct rough weather heading in and out every day, regardless of conditions because you never know.

Greenbuttskunk can tell you that I've given up days fishing off Cape Foulweather because of "possible" waves. Once we were catching fish, and I simply told him we had to go....fishing in a 6 foot swell on the east side of a consistent depth reef puts you in a bad position.

My advice would be to know the bottom contour of where you are located at all times. If the bottom outside of you is the same depth or shallowing up at all you could see waves form and break outside. If you are at a point where the deeper water has shallowed up quickly you are also in a focal point. Being keenly aware of the bottom contour and where you are in relation to the contour will not prevent a sneaker wave, but should put a better awareness in you mind of the possibility.

[fyshndad]

Mike you hit it right on the nail head
My experience 7 years ago is a prime example of this
I did not know the area
I was fishing from a report and did not think to look at a chart
MY BAD

Originally Posted by Nalu

I have never experienced what I would call a Rogue wave, but have seen a few instances of Sneaker Waves.

In my experience, most of the sneaker waves appear and become dangerous in areas that often exhibit danger during more extreme conditions. What I mean, is that areas that become marginal or nasty when the weather turns bad is also where these sneakers often occur on fairly nice days.

Some examples.....

Flat rock area out of Depoe on the South.
North Reef out of Depoe to the North.
Certain areas around Cape Foulweather/Otter Rock, including just North of the large Wash Rock
The Middle Grounds of Tillamook Bar.
And where one caught us...The North Hole on the Tilly Bar.

I see many, many people cut to the North or South of the buoy in Depoe on nicer days. They run over an area where they would never even consider if the weather was a little marginal. Myself, I try to take the correct rough weather heading in and out every day, regardless of conditions because you never know.

Greenbuttskunk can tell you that I've given up days fishing off Cape Foulweather because of "possible" waves. Once we were catching fish, and I simply told him we had to go....fishing in a 6 foot swell on the east side of a consistent depth reef puts you in a bad position.

My advice would be to know the bottom contour of where you are located at all times. If the bottom outside of you is the same depth or shallowing up at all you could see waves form and break outside. If you are at a point where the deeper water has shallowed up quickly you are also in a focal point. Being keenly aware of the bottom contour and where you are in relation to the contour will not prevent a sneaker wave, but should put a better awareness in you mind of the possibility.

[Chrome Bumper]

THeres a hump around Bouy 5 or so in the Columbia River entrance that get a few people when the waves crest up on it.

[fishbait]

Wow, pretty humbling when so many people know so much more than me, but a great post for learning.

My 1.5 cents worth:

Regarding sneaker waves. Much different when you are inside say 10 - 15 fathoms vs. open ocean. In the open ocean there is little that you can do compared to shallow water. In shallower water, I believe, most of the time it could have somehow been avoided.

Who was it that said that bad areas in bad seas can become bad areas in moderate seas without warning. Know the area you are in.

Took a few big waves on the CR many years ago in a friends boat. Classic situtation of being where we should not have been and not knowing your captain. We did many things wrong that day, the most significant on my part was the failure to say NO. Fortunately we did some things right that day also as we made it back in but I did not go in the salt for about 6 years. Ask me about the broken compass that was not broken sometime.

Another one for behind the Tillamook S Jetty. We were in a good bite for days, snotty ocean and we knew this was a bad area. Every 30 min we rotated turns on the kicker. 2 people fished and one ran the boat, watched the traffic and the waves. We constantly reminded the "on duty person" to not watch the rods, the fish but watch the waves and other boats. We had fish #3 on and the set started to get big fast, I walked forward and started the big motor hollared to hang on and powered into and over the wave just in time to keep from getting pushed back farther toward the beach, we took a little water over the bow and cleared the breaking waves. 5-6 other boats were not so lucky, a few got swamped, one almost rolled and one ended up on the beach. We lost the fish but no gear and nobody got hurt. Lesson: we were lucky as we did a few things right. Actually should not have been there in the first place. Be aware, always be aware. In difficult or marginal situtations someone should always be responsible for "being on watch" and if your there by choice, re-examine your decisions often.

[Coastalfisherman]

Originally Posted by Pilar

Good discussion so far thanks.

Please forgive my terminology and feel free to correct it. If you have never been 'surprised' then you will at some point. So far the big surprise moment for me came when my much smaller glass boat fell out from under me near the end of the south TB jetty on the outside. We were salmon fishing like so many do. I looked up as the front of the boat cam up and quick as a wink the wave rolled by and the boat fell out from under me. It really hurt when I fell into it.

A few seconds later a sled about a hundred feet closer to the beach nearly went onto the jetty and a guy fell out of that boat. That wave was probably 3 times the slow, regular 6 footers we saw for several hours before it happened.


Good stuff.

I had the same thing happened to me at Tilly Bay in the same area. We had been trolling for hours when it happened. Luckily I had time to bow into it, but I remember the huge freefall and and having to change my shorts afterwords. I have yet to fish there again, and that was 10 years ago. I think bow into the wave and throttle up as you go into the wave is the only way to get over it. Hopefull it would not throw the boat backwards and down the face of the wave.

[HiTekRdNek]

I'm learning allot here. Thanks for this thread John.
Things I had considered. Some of it just common sense.
But, to hear it from all of you really helps.

[Fishmstr]

Don't believe in sneaker waves...check out this video!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=08c_1178767284

[Phil Layer]

I was running back to the Newport barn from Seal Rock. There was a bit of a chop but nothing serious. My fishing partner was talking away when I pulled back the throttle. She continued talking while I waited. Finally, she noticed my gaze and looked out to the west. "Is that an ocean liner?" she asked.

It was a single, giant wave slowly headed for the beach. I'm guessing it was fifteen feet taller than anything else out there. It was probably 100 feet long. I waited for it to pass and continued on without encountering anything like it again.

If I hadn't had a witness, I would swear I was nutz! :blush:

[backlash442]

I guess I had a run in with a sneaker wave I took while salmon fishing years ago. We were trolling in rough conditions. In fact we were the only boat left outside the harbor. Should have told us something but nope not us. With the wind blowing so hard and with d.r.'s in the water it was hard to steer. In fact you really couldn't turn the boat into the wind at trolling speed. Anyways, I saw this wave coming, which was much larger than anything else. Fortunately the bow was more or less facing the wave because I couldn't really maneuver the boat. Boat went right through the crest with at least 2' of green water coming into it. So much water that I was standing in over 2-3". It filled my 2 fish holds with water and they are over 6' long. It took a lot of time before the deck finally drained. Stupidly enough we still fished.

After we got back into the harbor I remember a big gust hit us and it started spinning the flasher around. It spun so fast that it some how snapped the line and flew off. My friend and I just looked at each other thinking we were insane to be out there.

Glad there wasn't a second or third wave behind the one we took. Also glad I was in a boat that wasn't going to sink. If I ever see another one I don't want to be doing 2 knots that's for sure.

[biederboat]

Things I have learned from experience:

1. Always fish with at least 3 people, one can catch, one can net and one can remain on lookout. The guy at the helm should always be the "lookout" (and therefore you should take turns).

2. The most dangerous areas are near the bars, kind of like take-off and landing on an airplane.

3. Quartering up & down is best on a wave/swell.

4. Watch out for crossing wakes, especially behind charter boats! When two large wakes hit from opposing directions, things get ugly real quick.

Biederboat

[little doc]

Having gone through hundreds of breakers in the surf, hitting them head on leaves you ready for whatever is behind it, and quartering often will leave you broadside to the next wave. This necessitates a bit of maneuvering to get back into postition, and is not always possible before the next one hits. I have always hit them head on, but the back side is not a lot of fun. This is not from any textbook, but purely from experience in the surf.

Why should we avoid the white water? I have found that waves are often smaller after they have rolled, and are easier to punch through. That having been said, all the rollers I have gone through have been in shallow water (<12 feet). Thanks for any advice/experience in this, as all I have is an education from "uncle Dave" on how to do this.

Scott.

[KChookem]

It has been touched upon, but I would like more info about taking large waves from the stern in an time and place where you are committed to continue on your course, say crossing a bar in already marginal conditions (and you do not have the time or space to reverse course and head into the approaching waves)

As an example, let's say the normal bar entrance is due West, but the swell is coming from the NW. A much larger, and steeper, series is observed overtaking me, perhaps cresting or nearing cresting. I believe I would try to keep the stern square to the approaching waves, but this SE action would put me on a course for a collision with the south jetty. How would I manuver the boat?

[HiTekRdNek]

With being just a pup I can't share allot in this subject. The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention is When a wave breaks over it has air in the water with air bubbles in it is less buoyant. I learned this while Whitewater Kayaking. I think this might be something to take into consideration.
And that might be overpriced.

[Zodiac-Fisherman]

Make sure theres no hurricane directly offshore.

Ive learned the hard way, we were less than 100 miles east bound from the eye of Hurricane John last fall.

Seas were very sporty it was like hitting a double black diamond on the slopes, only with a express sportfisher.

[Maverick Maxcat]

The waves offshore are no big deal, they should not be breaking. Your boat will float up and over with no troubles.

The shallow water stuff is much different. Large rogues will break in much deeper water than the "normal" waves in the series. I would try to take them bow-on if at all possible.

Returning over the bar is fairly simple, if you have enough speed and the nerve to use it. Simply pick your set and use the throttle to stay between 2 swells. The one behind can't break into your boat if you stay on the back of the one in front. To do this, you will be traveling 25-30 knots. There is frequently a surface cross-chop, and you need to be able to run through it. If you slow down, have equipment problems, life will get very interesting very fast......

[Mypursuit]

I was fishing just south of the green can @tbay about 18 years ago when 3 large rollers came through. I cut my 19 glasply straight into the first wave as it broke under me and we were in 75' of water, held my position against the next 2, the 3rd was the largest as it lifted us about 16 ft and dropped us like a sack, lost 1 rod and 2 bilges pumped for 50 minutes...it was not a bad day, they just came through unannounced moving NW to SE. Wish I could say I knew what I was doing but I never had time to think just reacted. This has been an excellent thread

[lake creek charlie]

Scary stories! Ive only felt two. In 82 i was commercial fishing halibut in the shelikof straights in alaska. Skipper was broke so we fished through a storm. 20 foot waves and it was a full time job staying upright , and still the halis had to be gutted and iced. Ended week opener with 135 k deckload. headed for kodiak, and skipper was beat, so he asked(told) me to steer forr a few hours while he got some shuteye. it was about midnight and i was in the wheelhouse looking out w high lights shining out . Then i saw it . At night it was too close to get it off auto pilot and with a full load the boat didnt rise with the wave . This boat was 60 years old and fished this ground all that time. Say goodbye to the windows at 38 feet off water level. All the hatchs gone too . Made sleeping hard after that. I have one more but i got to head for hali grounds out of florence. My son and grandson are here to get some hali for winter( maybe tuna) NO SNEAKERS TODAY!!!!!

[USCGBoating]

We seem to be getting two different things confused with the original topic. Waves at sea are far different for those you encounter on the bar or around shoals or obstructions. The American Practical Navigator by Bowditch http://www.marineplanner.com/bowditch/bowditch.cfm is an excellent resource for oceanography in layman terms to read up on how theses phenomena occur. Chapter 33, Waves, Breakers, and Surf, is the section that covers this issue, great reading and very enlightening.

In an ocean seas state you have the average wave, a slightly larger significant wave, the highest 10 percent, and then the highest. The highest is considered what some call a rouge wave. So there is a calculated chance that in a sea you can encounter the “rogue wave”

“Because of the existence of many independent wave systems at the same time, the sea surface acquires a complex and irregular pattern. Since the longer waves overrun the shorter ones, the resulting interference adds to the complexity of the pattern. The process of interference is duplicated many times in the sea; it is the principal reason that successive waves are not of the same height. The irregularity of the surface may be further accentuated by the presence of wave systems crossing at an angle to each other, producing peak-like rises. In reporting average wave heights, the mariner has a tendency to neglect the lower ones. It has been found that the reported value is about the average for the highest one third. This is sometimes called the “significant” wave height.“

“Bowditch”

Now when swells travel into shallow water there characteristics change as they feel the bottom, they slow in speed and increase in height. Topography in the ocean floor is the factor that causes breaking waves to jump up out of know where. When you are on a bar the current also plays a factor. Apposing current will cause a swell to break in deeper than normal water

Great topic Pilar!

Dan

[fish_on]

Dan, as much as we love the CG could you increase your font so we don't have to squint so much

[5 Salt]

Originally Posted by Tinman

One thing to watch out for is engine stalling if the boat falls hard off the backside of a wave. I've done this a couple of times crossing a bar, punching over a breaking wave and free-falling down the backside. On both occassions (different boats), the outboard shuddered and sputtered after landing, so I had very little power for a few seconds. Fortunately the engine recovered after a few seconds.

I am not sure why the engine faltered. Perhaps the fuel in the carb bowls got thrown around and momentarily screwed up the fuel/air mixture.

Good point to bring up.

Carbed engines can fuel starve momentarily due to the accelerated drop forcing the carb bowl to be dry at the point (bottom) where the metering jet uptakes fuel for mixture with air. As soon as you hit wave bottom all is returned to normal and the engine begins recovery if it hasn't already completely stalled.

Fuel Injected motors will be less likely to encounter this problem due to their high pressure injector pump pulling from a larger engine mounted tank supplied by low pressure fuel pump(s). The larger injection tank is designed to overcome the fuel starve protential associated with marine operations.

[Terry H]

John, Terry H here, something that has touched here and there on this thread is ---PAY ATTENTION.
On the WHY KNOT unless we have a flat ocean and no other boats close---I NEVER LEAVE THE HELM.
I've had the adventure of being in Sea Scouts when I was 13---47 years ago.
We had an old WWII bomb carrier. 48ft 600 horse.
That could lead to a long story 4 years in SS and we were all young and HOO RA. We had to learn every job on the boat--from oil change-engine check to baking bread in the diesel stove.
Anyway, we learned that #1 The skipper is responsable for the entire crew. If a "sneaker wave "hits ---the skipper was not doing the job--Period.
How you attack a large wave, depends on the boat.
Many of the smaller light boats will almost become airborn if attacking straight on. They will at that point be very unstable and could capsize on the backside. Possibly quartering the wave may be the best--go slow and ride it out.
If the boat is heavier and has the power to take the wave head on --slow at the crest and slide down the back.
The bottom line is ---The skipper never should be suprised and needs to understand the handeling and limitations of his vessel.
That's my thought.
Terry

[Terry H]

This thread to the top

[bull285]

I was always taught and it has always worked for me, only to quarter a wave that was not breaking or was not about to break. If it was about to break or already breaking the power of the wave as it curled over will either push you around broadside to the next wave or roll you. If the wave is/or about to break then your best off to take it straight on under power. Further when you quarter the crest of a large wave with the power off, the bow digs in on the back side and it can cause a violent shift to the up-wave side as the boat heels over and digs in turning you broadside to the waves. Don't ask me how I know this. If a wave is taking you from astern I would run straight away if I had the time and power. If not I'd try to get as perpendicular to the wave as possible and prepare to bail. If you can outrun the wave to the one in front then you may have enough room to turn and take the wave straight on the bow.

Some good points were brought up about deep and shallow water. Swells start to slow and rise once they reach a depth of about half the wave length. Waves typically break when they reach a depth 1.3 times their height. So a 10 foot wave will crest and break in approximately 13 feet of water. Wave length, wave speed and slope of beach are all variables. There are some special circumstances that can make a wave act like it is in shallower water than it is such as currents. The Columbia for example. In deep water over 150 feet you could have a Tsunami roll under you and never know it was there. Waves like in "The Perfect Storm" make good movies but are pretty tough to find in real life.

[lake creek charlie]

What do you do when a larger wave gets to your boat? You've seen em. Sneakers, 2x the average, boat wakes, bar standing waves, breaking bar waves, shore break. All manner of surprises out there on the ocean. Obvious things are avoid bad or marginal ocean conditions, boat size matters and I'm sure there are others. But we all have some things in common when we run a boat.
THIS IS THE FIRST POST< so i dont see how we have veered off course