Fire above valsetz

[bigamefisher2]

A buddy of mine was hunting up around Valsetz today, and said that there was a fire blazing away up there. Has anyone else heard about it?

[riversledder]

I was out scouting geese tonight and saw the smoke. Then when it got darker, I noticed a huge line of fire from the bottom of a canyon up to the top of a high ridge. It was big and covered quite an area. I dont think tomorrows weather is going to help either.

[Long Shot]

As of yesterday 9/08, I heard it was around 300 acres. This weather won't help any.

LS

[fishonthebrain]

I was hunting the Valsetz area yesterday afternoon. The fire appears to be up at bald mountain. I'm guessing this, due to wher I saw the smoke and what line the crews were using to access the fire. The helicoter was dumping water all afternoon (you could see them from the ridge I was hunting). I saw firecrews (more) heading into the area as I was coming out on the mainline after dark. Coming out of in the dark, the top of the mountain looked like a volcono, due to the smoke and the light from the fire (really eerie). The wind was pretty stiff yesterday evening and again this morning, these are not Ideal conditions to fight this fire.......

[Chug]

Yikes, bad hot temps right now.. thanks for the posting.

[PIR8 Hook]

I was out at my buddy's place on a knob south of Dallas last night. All I can say is it was an awesome sight. Flames in a line probably shooting 200' from the size at that distance......

[Chug]

Can see the thick smoke from McMinnville, does sound like arson, or smoker.

Hope we get rain soon.. or this could be a ugly one.

[Don Becker]

"The rest of the story:" http://www.kptv.com/news/14094237/de...509112007&ts=H

[Don Becker]

BTW, so he's shooting tracers or ???????????? Don

[Reelentless]

Another example of 1 idiot messing it up for everyone. Not surprising to see more and more locked gates.

[Don Becker]

'Heard the answer to my own question on the way to work, on KEX - - - Yup, tracer rounds . . . . Don

[bigamefisher2]

Unfortunately, I know the guy they arrested (IF it's the same guy that was mentioned in the KATU news link shown above). He is/was an avid outdoorsman. I am a bit shocked that he and his group would be dumb enough to be using tracer rounds like that in these dry conditions. If there was one thing he lived for, that was hunting and being in the outdoors..

Reelentless.....he and his group made a gross error in judgement, but that doen't make him an idiot. I am NOT condoning what they did, as it could have been a lot worse, but let the system, no matter how bad it can be, pass the judgement on them, not any of us. The only mistake that I see that they made besides using tracer rounds was not staying around to own up to what they started, even if they did try to put it out. Calling it in wasn't enough. If this is the same guy that I know, I am sure his wife and family aren't doing to well with any of this. I feel for them all.

Dave Clearman

[Don Becker]

'A little hard for me to understand how this stump got out of control knowing they were required to have water, axe and shovel with them . . . one guy to drive to where he could get cell service to report it and get help and two to work on putting it out ?????? 'Just wondering . . . Don

[CombinationLicense]

The local news media didn't miss a chance to sensationalize the story either. I watched the story on last night's news and wasn't surprised to hear them talk about the "high-power .50 caliber sniper rifle" that was involved. They even showed a stock photo for effect complete with bipod and flash hider, even though the same thing could happen with .223 tracers...

"CL"

[osulogger]

At least they found the person who started it. If he was such an avid outdoorsman then he should have known better then to be shooting a high powered rifle with tracer rounds into a stump in a clearcut on 90 degree day with an east wind. Seriously.

To each his own; lucky they got in under control at 426 acres and there isn't a zero on the end of that number.

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

[osulogger]

Originally Posted by Don Becker

'A little hard for me to understand how this stump got out of control knowing they were required to have water, axe and shovel with them . . . one guy to drive to where he could get cell service to report it and get help and two to work on putting it out ?????? 'Just wondering . . . Don

Bald Mountain is on top of the world up there..... you wouldn't have to drive anywhere to get Cell Service. You bring up a very good point I didn't even think about with the axe, shovel, and water..... something a lot of people forget about.

[fishonthebrain]

Not to mention all of the signs on the mainlines (both small and large & highly visible) that have specifically been added this year concerning no target shooting.

[bigamefisher2]

The media never misses a chance to do crap like that. That is what gets the bleeding heart liberals all up in arms. The company I work for had an equipment failure due to and outside company engineering error, you all should have seen the news on it, it was in Seattle. The media was quick to point out the construction company, and owners of the equipment, bodly I might add. So yeah they'll (media) milk it for what it's worth.

osulogger, as I stated before...I don't condone what they did. Also there was more than one person, but no other names have been mentioned......yet. Yes HE SHOULD have known better, but didn't chose wisely, and it'll probably cost him, big time. They should have had all the proper equipment for this type of thing as well. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I won't know till I can talk to him or his wife. Also, if the signs for no target shooting were there, then they should have heeded them, but they chose not too. Again, gross error in judgement. I am just glad the fire was kept to the acreage that it burned and not more. Now bring on the rain....and dampen everything......

[ElkMaster78]

Just another example they will use next year when all roads are closed and you aren't even allowed to walk in.
Tony

[Bill Monroe]

That (petunias) media!

[bigamefisher2]

It also was mentioned that they found him.....but the paper read that he turned himself in. My uncle, who is an elder of my church is looking into this. He is going to call and find out the scoop. I'll try and update with any info as I get it. I just hope the rest of the group steps up, and owns up as well, rather then letting him feel all the heat. Cowardly if they don't. Bad enough that they called and fled the area, but to let one guy take it all, is even worse in my opinion.

[CombinationLicense]

Originally Posted by Bill Monroe

That (petunias) media!

C'mon Bill - You know it's a pretty common practice to jack up a story by sensationalization. Just look at what happens when 1/2" of snow is predicted, let alone any reference to a "hot button" issue - OMG! :shocked:

The term sniper rifle is the Anti-gunner's new catch phrase, and is similar to the terms "Assault Rifle", "Cop Killer Bullet", and "Undetectable Plastic Guns" (Glock, when it was first introduced). These terms are all technically incorrect but sound evil to the uninformed masses - hence the hype. "Sniper Rifles" are identified by the Anti's as highly accurate, military style firearms designed for precision shooting and capable of killing at extremely long ranges - thus not necessary for civilian use. Unfortunately that also describes nearly every sporting rifle in America, which isn't mentioned in the general description.

My point is that the story could have been reported quite well and more accurately without the term "Sniper Rifle" being used. Why? Because he was target shooting! Maybe they should have called it a "Target Rifle"?

Anyway, to stay on topic, I have to agree with Don Becker on this one...

"CL"

[Reelentless]

Originally Posted by bigamefisher2

Unfortunately, I know the guy they arrested (IF it's the same guy that was mentioned in the KATU news link shown above). He is/was an avid outdoorsman. I am a bit shocked that he and his group would be dumb enough to be using tracer rounds like that in these dry conditions. If there was one thing he lived for, that was hunting and being in the outdoors..

Reelentless.....he and his group made a gross error in judgement, but that doen't make him an idiot. I am NOT condoning what they did, as it could have been a lot worse, but let the system, no matter how bad it can be, pass the judgement on them, not any of us. The only mistake that I see that they made besides using tracer rounds was not staying around to own up to what they started, even if they did try to put it out. Calling it in wasn't enough. If this is the same guy that I know, I am sure his wife and family aren't doing to well with any of this. I feel for them all.

Dave Clearman

I apologize for insulting your friend, Dave. We've all done things that make us "idiots" at one time or another. I should have directed my comment at what he did rather then him personally.

You can't blame the timber companies for closing gates to protect their assets. One huge fire can put them out of business.

[Bill Monroe]

Originally Posted by CombinationLicense

C'mon Bill - You know it's a pretty common practice to jack up a story by sensationalization. Just look at what happens when 1/2" of snow is predicted, let alone any reference to a "hot button" issue - OMG! :shocked:

The term sniper rifle is the Anti-gunner's new catch phrase, and is similar to the terms "Assault Rifle", "Cop Killer Bullet", and "Undetectable Plastic Guns" (Glock, when it was first introduced). These terms are all technically incorrect but sound evil to the uninformed masses - hence the hype. "Sniper Rifles" are identified by the Anti's as highly accurate, military style firearms designed for precision shooting and capable of killing at extremely long ranges - thus not necessary for civilian use. Unfortunately that also describes nearly every sporting rifle in America, which isn't mentioned in the general description.

My point is that the story could have been reported quite well and more accurately without the term "Sniper Rifle" being used. Why? Because he was target shooting! Maybe they should have called it a "Target Rifle"?

Anyway, to stay on topic, I have to agree with Don Becker on this one...

"CL"

I also agree with Don and even, to some degree, with the above.

It is indeed, a common practice to jack up a story...But for television, not newspapers. I think it was pointed out separately that a local paper got it right when one of them turned himself in instead of being "found."

All that said, though, the incident itself was a news event and deserved coverage.
In fact, it's possible that "there but for the grace of god go I" also applies, since in past years I've used public lands for shooting. But not with tracers.

There was, indeed, a very fine line here between thousands of dollars in damage and a 426-acre fire and something much, much bigger.

It's always tough on us when someone close is involved. That, too, deserves "the rest of the story" treatment...in all cases.

PS...Given my pending retirement, I've joined the NRA (mostly prohibited for working journalists in order to maintain objectivity...honest) and will now go join a local gun club. Open fire on open lands will be in my past.

[Abalone]

What actually happened is that after the fire started he and a friend tried to put it out. When it wouldn't go out the guy started to panic so his buddy went for help in the process he told the Sheriff deputies what had happened and that is how he got arrested....

We all make mistakes...

and I am not sure if it was a tracer or an incindiary. I heard it was actually an incendiary.

M1 .50 Caliber incendiary cartridge: The M1 incendiary cartridge is an incendiary cartridge primarily intended for use against aircraft and material. The M1 can be identified by its blue tip.

M1/M10/M17 .50 Caliber tracer cartridge: The M1/M10/M17 are tracer variants of the M2/M33 cartridge. They are essentially identical to one another in terms of ballistic performance and function. These M1 has a red painted tip, the M10 has a orange tip, and the M17 has a brown tip.

[BrianMaguire]

He is going to have to pay the supression costs. Its a devastating mistake financially for him. Thank God no one was hurt fighting the fire.

[Don Becker]

Originally Posted by BrianMaguire

He is going to have to pay the supression costs. Its a devastating mistake financially for him. Thank God no one was hurt fighting the fire.

I asume, as bigamefisher2 has told us, this is a good guy. Given that, this looks to me like negligence and at least one poor choice and not an intentional tort. Eventhough some of us vehementaly deny it, we are all prone to a negligent act from time to time - - - negligence is something most of us try to avoid but, it isn't a dirty word. Again, 'sure glad no injuries/fatalities and relatively minor property damage. He and his family are going to have a lot to go through over this, though. I'll it all works out okay for them. Don

[bigamefisher2]

As long as I have know this guy, he has never seemed to me as someone that would readily do something like this. I think he made a huge error on his part by taking it to the woods. In his defense tough, I would like to say that he likes to go and shoot his guns. Don't we all when we have the opportunity? Only thing is, I personaly don't know of many places that will allow someone to walk in with a .50 cal to blow off a few rounds. I am not saying there aren't, but I don't know alot of guys that actually have one to shoot. He probably had some money to burn and got this gun purely to have some shooting fun with. I don't know. All I can say is that from what I have seen as far as he is as a person, this is out of the norm for him.

[osulogger]

bigamefisher2,

I also didn't mean to personally attack your friend, I was just stating the point that if he was that big on the outdoors, he should have known, simple as that. Good on him for attempting to get the situation under control, but there isn't a lot you can do in that scenerio with weather as bad as it was.

Yes, he is going to have to pay suppression costs, and that will ruin him financially for good. I wouldn't be surprised if Forest Capital steps in and tries to get some money out of the deal as well. A lose - lose situation for everyone involved.

I didn't get to see any of the media coverage (in Lane Co., our news stations could care less what else happens in the State) but it sounds like they made a circus out of the deal. That's always a bad thing.

Best of luck to your friend; all he can do is learn from it and hope to God it doesn't ruin his life for good.

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

[Hawk]

Originally Posted by osulogger

Yes, he is going to have to pay suppression costs, and that will ruin him financially for good. I wouldn't be surprised if Forest Capital steps in and tries to get some money out of the deal as well. A lose - lose situation for everyone involved.

I don't know that I agree with this guy having to bear the entire cost of fire suppression. The estimate I heard was $500,000. If they're going to make him pay that, why not make every druggie or gang banger pay their own hospital bill, or ambulance ride. Most of the time those things are paid for by all of us.

Spank him, yes; beat him then kick him when he's down, no.

[scottishsetter]

It's my understanding that tracer round possesion in Calif. is a felony. I guess we all see now that fire is a result. I've often worried about steel core bullets hitting rocks and sparking something up.

Heard a report tonight that next year may be seriously dry;;bad.
Stay safe this year.

[Bull Hunter]

Originally Posted by Hawk

I don't know that I agree with this guy having to bear the entire cost of fire suppression. The estimate I heard was $500,000. If they're going to make him pay that, why not make every druggie or gang banger pay their own hospital bill, or ambulance ride. Most of the time those things are paid for by all of us.

Great Point!

[osulogger]

Originally Posted by Hawk

I don't know that I agree with this guy having to bear the entire cost of fire suppression. The estimate I heard was $500,000. If they're going to make him pay that, why not make every druggie or gang banger pay their own hospital bill, or ambulance ride. Most of the time those things are paid for by all of us.

Spank him, yes; beat him then kick him when he's down, no.

Hawk,

He might not have to pay the entire thing but he is going to pay every penny he can afford. When the state comes out and puts out a fire on private land and they find that the individual is at fault, be it a timber company or Joe homeowner whose burning barrel got away from him, you the landowner endure the cost. In this case, the individual(s) who were involved in igniting the fire will be at fault and thus have to pay.

It's no different then an arsonist.... Lets just step back for a second and change the role of this individual from a person who accidently set a fire to a person who intentionally set a fire. You'd want to string the guy up by his parts if he set the fire intentionally and there would be no question to of making him pay for what he did right??? Well the state doesn't look at it as an accident; it's still a fire and they want assistance in pay for suppression.

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

[Reelentless]

Originally Posted by Hawk

I don't know that I agree with this guy having to bear the entire cost of fire suppression. The estimate I heard was $500,000. If they're going to make him pay that, why not make every druggie or gang banger pay their own hospital bill, or ambulance ride. Most of the time those things are paid for by all of us.

Spank him, yes; beat him then kick him when he's down, no.

Why waste ambulance and hospital resources on druggies and gang bangers at all? Besides, the hospital will try to collect. If there is nothing to collect, then they eat it and eventually raise thier rates to cover it.

So if we don't punish him for shooting illegally, whats the point in having laws at all? If it was your house or property that was burned up, would you feel the same way? I sure as hell would take everything he had to cover my losses.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Guy sounds like a moron to me. Shooting tracers during fire season. I wouldnt be surprised if could pass a drug test doing something like that. Sounds like he could already be one of those guys at the hospital running the rest of our rates up.

Take his house, car and cash. Then he can make payments on the rest till he dies or pays off his debt.

[kodiakfisher]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

Take his house, car and cash. Then he can make payments on the rest till he dies or pays off his debt.

You know it is that very possability that really questions 1) what are our taxes going for anyways, doesn't sound like gross negligence to me unless he ignored no shooting signs or was shooting illegal ammo. 2) If the answers to above are no then does this guy deserve to have his life essentially ruined for one lapse in judgement.....I guess 12 of his peers may have to make that decision.

Sure makes it hard these days to be a stand up person and do the right thing when some advocate the consequences be so severe. If he reported it and tried to put it out and wasn't doing anything illegal I don't see what we prove by trying to punish him as if he was doing something illegal. I prefer the courts spend my tax dollars going after drug pushers and child abusers.

I do believe their should be some consequences but lets keep the act and punishment in perspective.

Kodiakfisher

[Smokin'Bulls]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

Guy sounds like a moron to me. Shooting tracers during fire season. I wouldnt be surprised if could pass a drug test doing something like that. Sounds like he could already be one of those guys at the hospital running the rest of our rates up.

Take his house, car and cash. Then he can make payments on the rest till he dies or pays off his debt.

Wow, that's a stunning paragraph.

You must be a very sad person to want to ruin a mans life over one mistake that he made, and I'm sure regrets. You must also be perfect huh? Never made a mistake in your entire life?

What he did was no doubt a lapse in judgement, and a very ignorant thing to do. We can all agree he made a very poor choice, but does it warrant ruining his life? I think not. I too think he should not have to bear the entire load financially. I hope everything works out ok.

[Bait O' Eggs]

So when somebody gets drunk and drives down the road the wrong way and kills your family, its just a lapse in judgement and they should be forgiven?

I understand nobody was killed in this situation, but a bunch of small critters that called that hill home.

I have spent some time hunting the area that was burned. So something was taken away from me and everybody else who has the energy to get off the road and do a little hiking.

Tracer rounds into a stump in fire season is beyond a lapse of judgement to me. Its just plain stupid. Kinda like shooting at cars and planes as they fly by is just plain stupid.

You dent my car you pay to fix it, you burn down a hill you pay to fix it. Bleeding heart liberals that want to have tax dollars pay for their mistakes is something I cant endorse. I already pay enough taxes, dont want to pay more to cover this guys bone head move.

[Nookie Chaser]

Complete negligence

As far as paying for the fire, I had a fire on some property that I logged last year. I had been burning slash and two days later the weather changed to a east wind and got real warm. This was in the late spring. Fire stayed on my property and and didn't effect any one else but DNR came extinguished it. If I had been called I could have done so myself but I was notified till after they were on site. Original bill was $12,000 and it burned about 2 acres of my land. I had done everything I was supposed to do, just an un anticipated change in weather caused problems.

Now this fellow was in the wrong completly to be shooting tracers out in the woods during late summer. No two ways about it. Probably not the best choice even in winter but far less likely to cause a big problem. I am a firefighter and this is compareable to the idiots who through cigarettes out the window of their cars. All you have to do is drive down I-205 to see the results of that.

[Hawk]

If stupidity was a crime they would have locked me up and thrown away the key long ago! :shocked: Sometimes I think I've got a Ph.D in stupidity from the University of Hard Knock!!!

'logger, I think it's a lot different than an arsonist. An arsonist commits their deed with intent to cause property damage and/or physical injury. I'd be hard pressed to say this guy "intended" to start a fire.

Relentless, I'm not saying don't punish him; I'm saying that crucifying the guy is overkill. What justifies ruining the guy's entire life, denying his kids a college education, denying him a retirement beyond social security, and everything else. Heck, even people who commit manslaughter and kill someone eventually (within 15 years or so) pay their debt to society and are allowed to get on with their life. BOE and folks are advocating hanging this guy out to dry for 50+ years; that's a little extreme. Kodiak is right, he did try to do the right thing when he recognized his error. At least he fessed up and didn't try to bury it. Make him work on the reforestation and a thousand hours of community service, but don't banish him to financial hell. P.S. I wouldn't waste the ambulance or hospital time for gang bangers and the rest of those lost souls who choose that lifestyle.

BOE, remind me never to tick YOU off! 10 years for jay-walking? 90 days in the stocks for spitting on the ground? Who decides if the punishment fits the crime, or do we just crucify everyone? Comparing drunk drivers to a guy that was shooting a stump is a bit of overkill don't you think? What should we do with the guy that parks his pickup in tall grass and the catalytic converter starts a fire; shoot him at dawn? Drunk driving is a scorn on society; one guy shooting a stump is stupid, but it isn't a scorn. If everyone was jailed for acts of stupidity, at least the freeways wouldn't be very crowded -- most folks would be in pokie!

[BrianMaguire]

Was it tracers or incediary bullets? I have heard both being used here. both are dumb this time of year but incendiariers are far more stupid.

[WaterDog]

Apparently this word and it's meaning escapes a few of you.....

RESPONSIBLE:
1 a : liable to be called on to answer b (1) : liable to be called to account as the primary cause, motive, or agent <a committee responsible for the job> (2) : being the cause or explanation <mechanical defects were responsible for the accident> c : liable to legal review or in case of fault to penalties
2 a : able to answer for one's conduct and obligations b : able to choose for oneself between right and wrong

[bigamefisher2]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

Guy sounds like a moron to me. Shooting tracers during fire season. I wouldnt be surprised if could pass a drug test doing something like that. Sounds like he could already be one of those guys at the hospital running the rest of our rates up.

Take his house, car and cash. Then he can make payments on the rest till he dies or pays off his debt.

Wow……BOE…..did you think of that all by yourself?…..kinda harsh…..don’t ya think? Probably not very well considering your post, but who am I to say…..

First of all I know this guy PERSONALLY. Drugs? Not in this life time……One of those people at the hospital run up our rates……sorry about your luck. He is a family man. He is going to have to pay the consequences of his actions. In fact he is already feeling the heat from this. I was given some info buy someone from the fishing board, but will not post it here, as it was sent to me privately, and will remain as such.

I doubt he reads this forum, but if he did…..well let’s just say….defaming someone openly like this could make it to where HE takes YOUR house, car and cash, then YOU can make payments till YOU die or pay off YOUR debt. You don’t know the guy, I do, and I will defend a friend till my last breath or keystroke, which ever comes first. I don’t want to start a p***ing match here, but sometimes comments like these just irritate me to no end.

When I first heard of the fire, I was mad as hell. When I heard who it was that started it, I was shocked to say the least. As long as I have known him, he has never seemed to be the type of person that would be so blatantly stupid. He made a bad choice that is all. He tried to put the fire out, but failed. Did he bury it and keep his mouth shut? No, he came forward. Yes it was a few day’s later, but he was probably scared to death. I would be too. I will be talking to him. I’d like to hear what his thoughts were before, during, and after this happened. So, I refuse to judge him. I’d rather hear the story from him than from anyone that just makes an assumption on what kind of person he is.

Let’s just put ourselves in his shoes, shall we? What then? With a lot guys on here being friends, do you think that your friends would fire back at any one of us who bashed you for doing something like this, even if it was accidental? Or do you think they would flame away? Hmmmmm….makes me wonder. I have said it once and I will say it again. I do not condone what he did. It was wrong. He is the one that has to live with this for a long time, not any of us. Let’s not bash someone for making a poor choice. We have made them, whether we admit it or not. I have said my peace. If anyone has any other negative comments about what I have written, than feel free to PM me, we’ll discuss it there.

[freespool]

News contact: Angelica Johnson 541-523-1364

Forest Service - Oregon Department of Forestry - Bureau of Land Management
News

Fireworks Are Prohibited on National Forest, State Parks, and Bureau of Land Management Lands

Baker City , June 21, 2007 . Visitors recreating on the National Forest during the Fourth of July weekend are reminded that possessing, discharging or using any kind of fireworks on the Wallowa-Whitman National Forest is strictly prohibited at all times, stated Dennis Winkler, Acting Fire Management Officer for the Wallowa-Whitman National Forest .
Fireworks are also illegal in State parks and Bureau of Land Management lands, including all campgrounds and dispersed camping sites. Many of these areas are characterized by fine, grassy fuels that take very little time to dry out and ignite.
With dry weather forecasted for the week of the 4th of July holiday and potential for thunderstorms, the risk of wildfire is considerably increased.
On private lands, the Oregon Department of Forestry encourages people to heed caution when using legal fireworks, paying attention to location and weather conditions, or, better yet, attend a local fireworks show.
“Fireworks at this time of the year are a big concern,” Winkler said. “The seemingly harmless sparklers, as well as the bigger combustible devices like rockets and Roman Candles can start a fire.”
On the National Forest, the standard fine for violating the firework's prohibition is $100, but fines of up to $5,000 and or six months in jail may be levied against offenders. In addition, anyone found responsible for starting a forest fire can be held liable for fire suppression costs, which could total millions of dollars.
“We hope that all Forest users have a safe and enjoyable Fourth of July weekend without the threat of a wildfire,” Winkler said.
Please report violations to the Northeast Oregon Interagency Fire Center , in La Grande, at 541-963-7171, the local Ranger Station, or the nearest Sheriff's office. To report a wildfire, please call 911 .

.................................................. .....

So if I read this correctly, if convicted of being negligent in starting this fire, the individual, or individuals, would be liable for the entire fire suppression bill.

[Bait O' Eggs]

BGF2 - If I drive from Bend to Burns throwing lit matches out the window every mile, is it OK and all forgiven when I call in the fires from Burns? Throwing burning projectiles into wood out a rifle barrel is about the same to me as throwing lit matches along a dry road.

its nice he has friends, I hope you get to visit him in the big house.

[bigamefisher2]

Well now that would depend on how fast you were driving as everone else here could probably tell you, that if you hold a lit match up to your window, while driving, the match would burn out, or blow back into your vehicle, thus causing it to burn.

[Firedog]

Biggamefisher, make it cigarettes then. Because they do start fires all along the roadways this time of year. Like Nookie Chaser stated just take a look along I-205. Great you are his friend but that doesn't make him any less of an idiot for shooting Tracers or Incendiarys into a stump this time of year. Takes very litle to get things going especialy when the east wind is blowing.

[bigamefisher2]

Then I guess we are all idiots on here. Like I said, we have all done something stupid or made a poor decision in our lives, whether we admit it or not. So what you are saying then, Firedog, is that everyone that had done something stupid or made a poor choice/decision is an idiot. Lock us all up...........the world would be a better place, huh?

[freespool]

Originally Posted by bigamefisher2

Then I guess we are all idiots on here. Like I said, we have all done something stupid or made a poor decision in our lives, whether we admit it or not. So what you are saying then, Firedog, is that everyone that had done something stupid or made a poor choice/decision is an idiot. Lock us all up...........the world would be a better place, huh?

Bigamefisher2, Firedog is a firefighter, I think we might learn something from him.
Further, if memory serves me correctly, he has direct knowledge about what happens when you cause a forest fire, accidentally or otherwise.
In the case of the Valsetz fire, negligence seems to be the culprit, and if this is proven, the guilty should have to pay for the damage they caused.
The simple fact that tracer/incendiary rounds were being fired during high fire danger, pretty much rules out it being a accident.
I'm not doubting your friends character, but he did a very stupid thing, asking him to pay for it, doesn't seem out of line to me.

[Firedog]

Were all idiots? Why do you assume we all drive along throwing burning stuff out our windows. I know I don't, I am sure there are some on here that do though and if caught they should be held responsible for at the very least littering.

I have less issue with him doing something dumb, than those on here that come on and say it is OK because he admitted it. What if a Civilian or Firefighter was killed by the fire? What if it hadn't been quite so remote and had burned a bunch of homes? Granted he stepped up and said he did it. I will give him credit for that but he did still do it. You ask in one of your posts if I would call out my friends or if they would call me out if I did something dumb? You bet not a second thought, have and will again.

If you do something stupid you should be held acountable. Not saying I have never done anything that was dumb but I have also been acountable for my actions. Done some things that have cost me a fair amount of money. If you do things in life and are negligent you are responsible, no two ways about it in my book.

[WaterDog]

Originally Posted by bigamefisher2

Then I guess we are all idiots on here. Like I said, we have all done something stupid or made a poor decision in our lives, whether we admit it or not. So what you are saying then, Firedog, is that everyone that had done something stupid or made a poor choice/decision is an idiot. Lock us all up...........the world would be a better place, huh?

The answer is yes if your the idiot firing tracers in a dry forest that ultimately causes a 500 acre fire. This is a little more than a "poor decision". Were there any synapses firing when the trigger was pulled? Maybe he's the guy you could dare to pee on the electric fence to see if it hot or not.

Nut up and be responsible (there is that word again). Novel concept for some I guess.

[Smokin'Bulls]

Synapses do not fire. Neurons fire an electrical signal down the axon, and dendrites release neurotransmitters. The synapse is where these neurotransmitters are received.

Also, the "**** on the hot wire" test does not work. The flow of urine is not steady enough for the current to flow through.

The guy made a mistake and should be held responsible...just not to the point of it ruining his entire life. Afterall, there are murderers and child rappists who face much less severe penalties.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I guess I am an extremist, Those murders should be killed, rapist should be partially amputated and thieves have their hands cut off.

Our problems would go away if the penalty was severe enough. By either people being afraid of the penalty or when the penalty was enforced it wouldnt happen again because we took their ability away.

I can assure you if the penalty is bad enough people wont do the crime. What keeps me from robbing a bank is the slim chance of getting caught and locked up with bubba in a cell and being a play toy all night long for him hence I dont rob a bank.

[TheTexan]

Originally Posted by Smokin'Bulls

Also, the "**** on the hot wire" test does not work. The flow of urine is not steady enough for the current to flow through.

You wanna prove that?

[Smokin'Bulls]

Originally Posted by TheTexan

You wanna prove that?

It's already been proven. You ever watch "Myth Busters"? I already knew the stream was not steady enough, but then they confirmed it.

[Smokin'Bulls]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

I guess I am an extremist, Those murders should be killed, rapist should be partially amputated and thieves have their hands cut off.

For once, I do agree with you on this point. I just don't think this situation warrants that kind of severity.

[Rauly]

Unforunately this thread went south. Closed!