What makes a good offshore ocean boat?

[Nalu]

Since I'm a "self considered expert on all things boating" I figured I would put up a thread designed to lay out what I look for in a boat, and then let everyone add their thoughts.

Tis true that certainly no one boat is good for everything. When I look at what I want in an offshore boat a few things do come first and foremost to mind. The biggest and always far ahead of everything else is safety.

I want a boat that will get me back home when the crap kicks up 20+ miles offshore. Reality is that most boats will do this.

A C-Dory will take a tremendous amount of weather and be able to go slow with good fuel economy in poor conditions better than most boats. A deep vee boat will not pound as much, but has a tradeoff of heavier fuel usage at slower speeds. Cost versus comfort depends on you and the craft on this one. There are lots of really seaworthy boats out there, many that are older such as Sea-Birds, Tolly's and others.

Self-bailing deck. A must for me. Better for a variety of reason, the fact that you are not relying on mechanical means to get water off would be the foremost.

Redundant power. Twins, or primary with a kicker. Sure the kicker may not get you across the bar at max ebb, but it can keep you turned into the slop, and most likely moving towards your destination.

Glass vs. Aluminum. I like glass for a variety of reasons, but that certainly doesn't take aluminum out of the equation. Glass is easier and more cost effectively able to be worked with to produce a desired result. Continuously variable vee with planing edges is something that can be produced easily and repetitively. The planing edges are something that Grady White and Arima share... Most GW's have the last third of the boat with flat hard edges that produce less rock and help plane the boat better than a full vee in back. The vee in Arimas throughout is less and produces a better horsepower to weight advantage over a deeper vee such as a Grady. The key is that these edges and other chines are easily done with glass. The same thing could be produced in aluminum, but the work involved, and the labor cost to produce such angles is contradictory on most boats. There are some magnificent and beautiful lines produced on metal boats but typically these are mega-expensive. The downside of glass is the maintenance and the weight. Aluminum boats like North River and Ed Wings can be powered with the same or less hp than a comparable sized glass boat and have better fuel efficiency.

Deep vee versus shallow vee versus cat: Cats win. Ride comfort and speed to power ratio in a cat seem to kick both the shallower vees and the modified deep vees. Of course not all cats are built alike. They operate and run different than vees, but can be made out of metal or glass. As a relatively new design, there are less options for used boats on the market. Not all cats are created equal, and some have extremely poor track records including slapping and deck failure. Modified deep vees eat up most chop pretty well, but need the power. Shallower vees run great and sip fuel, but will break your back in medium chop.

Sound deadening of glass is also something I like, but again, a builder can produce the same sort of results with metal and insulation if they intend to. The downside is that the cost goes up if the boat is insulated as such.

Speed: Being able to cruise between 18-24 knots on an average day without pounding is a big benefit. Slower boats do just fine, but the run time to get out there is important to some. I hate running. The less time I have to spend listening to motors rumble the better.

Helm: I enjoy having the helm in the mid part of the ship as it reduces the bouncing associated with having a helm up towards the bow. Compared to boats with forward helms, boats with helm in the middle such as walk arounds and center consoles ride much smoother for the captain and co-pilot. The downside of the mid ship helm is space. Boats that have a forward helm allow for more room in a cabin and more back deck space. The Sea Sport 24 is an excellent example of a huge cockpit, and opportunity for huge fish storage due to the forward helm and cabin. Ed Wings and North Rivers also share this style, and they all have impressive back decks for the size of boat.

Fuel capacity: Rule of thirds. Total capacity is irrelevant compared to the idea that your boat should be able to run and return home on 2/3 of a tank. For 30 mile tuna if you get 2mpg running you will burn 15 gallons out, 15 gallons back in. Figure another 20 gallons trolling all day for a total of 50 gallons. ( a pretty conservative tuna trip) Your boat should at least have 75 gallons of fuel capacity.

Electronics/Safety: VHF, handheld VHF, GPS/Chartplotter, handheld GPS, EPIRB/PLB, Para Flares, regular flares, smoke signals, and possibly a life raft. Substitute a buddy boat for the life raft as long as the buddy boat is always with you.

Inboard/Outboard/Bracket-- Inboard diesel shaft drive that was mounted below the deck would be my prime option if I could have it that way, but most small boats aren't designed in that fashion. Something like a Farallon that moved the engine forward via a jack shaft and creates a sitting area with full room on the transom would be the next best thing to a flush deck. Gas inboard with an outdrive is used by many and provides good fuel economy if set up. Very severe lack of knowledge about this setup on my part, Pilar would be best to chime in here. Outboard with a splashwell is ok, though I prefer a full transom just for the purpose of waves. outboard on a bracket or a euro-transom that provides a full transom is preferable. For those aluminum boats that would like it, the lower units can be swapped out to go from jet to prop depending on usage. Nice option. Downside of brackets and outboards is that you lose the stern transom fishing space and you have to work around them fighting fish. An I/O gives back a little more transom, and a shaft drive with engine below deck or jack-shafted forward top all as far as cockpit fishability.

Fish/ice storage: It is nice to be able to move weight around and have enough storage to keep the deck clean and still put a good number of fish onboard. The Sea-Sport 24 with bracket and outboards reigns supreme here in all that I've seen. 70+ tuna in the cockpit fish boxes is killer. For most reasonable trips it would be nice to be able to fit 10 tuna per person. Having coolers and kill bags take up most of the deck is not preferable.

Visibility: Having a raised helm area is really nice both for viewing whats in front, as well as being able to look to the stern and see how the gear is working. Good 360 degree visibility is awesome. Being able to see all the gear from the helm is really a plus, and allows for quick adjustments of the gear. It is surprising how much better you can see the spread when the helm area is 24 inches about the cockpit.

Cockpit: Open, uncluttered, bolsters and toe rails, and the gunnel coming up to at least mid-thigh.

Bow access: Being able to get to the bow and cast off the front is a very nice boat feature. Not needed, but nice to have. It does allow troll gear to remain deployed (including outriggers) but still have 1 or 2 people cast to jumpers.

There are some very nice older boats that fit the bill. Since I am neither wealthy nor subsidized I too look very closely at the cost versus benefit of what I would want. If I was to try a buy a new boat that fit this bill, it would be priced way out of my meager range. Looking at boats a few years older and there are a lot of nice options. The only thing you don't get is the very latest and greatest. There are some dandy boats out there that are good all around boats and cost a heck of a lot less than a new river boat. The downside is that you have to know what you want, be prepared to put some elbow grease into it, and check the new boat ego at the door. Not everyone can afford a $50K, $60k or $100k boat. Good thing you don't have to.

What things would you see in an offshore boat?

[flapbreaker]

Nice run down. Over the last few years I've payed attention to coast guard boats that have sunk off shore. In my observation the single most common problem seems to be a water leak. Usually from a a bad seal associated with drive shafts or from any of the favious below water line fittings ect. In these instances a self bailing deck does nothing for you.

So, I prefer to keep the hull simple. No through hull fittings except for the plug. Out board motors. And I only go off shore with a weather prediction that is forecasted to be either steady for the day/next or improving.

[Tower Todd]

Everything is trade off right? Heavy hulls have a better ride when the snot kicks up than a lighter hull of the same design. The trade off is fuel consumption. The other thing is the ability to plane at a fairly low speed is a huge benefit to me. I don't have the top end speed of most outboard boats, but give me a nasty head sea, throttle her back and let her eat.
Other imprtant things are construction related, such as aluminum fuel tanks vs. glass, marine grade tinned wire vs. non tinned, etc. etc. All boats are trade offs and like you stated find the perfect one or have the perfect one built and you better be prepared to sell the house to afford her.

TT

[SamBen]

I have more questions then answers.
Excellent editorial Nalu

Cats win hands down? Do cats come up on plane or is this the displacement thing people talk about.
My 2352 trophy does about 18-25 MPH depending on the day and how hard I push it, will a CAT do the same?

Agreed Seasports have a lot of storage and nice cabin's but the free board I saw at the show last year and the helm being so far forward were not for me.

Have driven a 22ft starcraft islander with hard top out before, and while I did pound a little more it was comforting to know that a widow maker would bounce off and at worst dent the hull vs glass which would possible cause a hole and take on water. Any thoughts on this?
Can glass be more easily damaged then metal?

Do metal boats put out electricity frequencies that could and will affect fishing? ie the need for the black box.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by SamBen

I have more questions then answers.
Excellent editorial Nalu

Cats win hands down? Do cats come up on plane or is this the displacement thing people talk about.
My 2352 trophy does about 18-25 MPH depending on the day and how hard I push it, will a CAT do the same?

Agreed Seasports have a lot of storage and nice cabin's but the free board I saw at the show last year and the helm being so far forward were not for me.

Have driven a 22ft starcraft islander with hard top out before, and while I did pound a little more it was comforting to know that a widow maker would bounce off and at worst dent the hull vs glass which would possible cause a hole and take on water. Any thoughts on this?
Can glass be more easily damaged then metal?

Do metal boats put out electricity frequencies that could and will affect fishing? ie the need for the black box.

I shouldn't say cats win hands down as there are certainly trade-offs. Violated the first rule of not making a closed end statement on the internet.

For certain things, cats really do kick others. Medium speed in medium chop like we have here seems to suit a great portion of our weather. Stability at rest is one of them. My knowledge is also limited so perhaps that cat boys on here could chime in with why they love them. I have heard mostly raves about the GB cats, but I have also heard about other cats that scared people to death the way they operate. I've actually heard from more than one person that just plain didn't like a cat, even the GB's. My lack of use makes any input only 2nd hand. Input from Corrirod, Catch and Eat or KHH would be great. I THINK that the GB's are displacement or semi-planing cats, but others are planing cats and some of these have "walking" issues so I hear. Maverick is a different beast.

Most glass boats are perfectly durable against waves. Glass is relative to the manufacturer. Some makes are extremely durable and heavy and can withstand solid strick impacts such as logs or other things that would shock you. Others are light skinned and foam cored which offer different trade offs such as weight to durability

[Tinman]

A couple of thoughts:

* Too many boats are stern heavy, and very vulnerable to swamping from astern. Owner's contribute to the problem by adding fishboxes, livewells, extra fuel tankage and all sorts of gear to the cockpit. 4-stroke outboards are also very heavy. Sea boats don't necessarily need the maximum rated outboard. Often a smaller, lighter motor provides a lighter stern and safer boat.

* A high bow and upswept sheer line (as in the C-dory you mentioned) are far better at riding out a blow. Yet most boats have a level sheer which makes them vulnerable to taking green water over the bow.

* The downside of self-bailing cockpits is that the raised deck also raises the boat's center of gravity, and decreases stability. Everybody is standing above the waterline, instead of below.

* Locally-built boats, designed for our waters, might be better than Florida- or California-built boats. Examples are Edwings and Pacific City dories.

[Pilar]

Fish box under the deck. Big cockpit and dry running hull design. Self bailing decks. Fly Bridge is nice but not really ideal for Oregon's rough ocean. Lay-up construction without using corner cutting chop guns. Any glass boat has a history and some brands (especially the lower cost ones) have a terrible reputation for lamination failure and blistering.

They make boats out of stuff other than fiberglass? Really? All joking aside .. the original Ed Wing 'Puffin' would be my first choice for rough water. That thing is a tank. Not beautiful but very useful and reliable .. the utilitarian choice.

Anything I would say about boats I would base on rides taken. The 'Beer Waggin' is one of the most impressive boats I have ever fished on. Love that boat. It rides nice, beautiful lines, and runs fast and fishes easy. A 26 foot center console Pursuit with mid engine 454 chevy and shaft drive. Nice boat Dave.

Another impressive boat is the Stiegercraft Chesapeake 26'. Volvo D10 diesel with Duo-prop, huge cockpit 10' wide by 14' long. The pilot house is small and the fwd bunk is barely big enough but layed out for fishermen. 200 gallon fishbox under the pilothouse, the only one I have ever seen built at the factory that is suitable for TUNA! fishers.

Casting off the bow is good but you need a washdown hose on the bow if you are landing fish there.

Nalu .. I am not an expert on I/O but have owned two of them now. You are getting a car engine in a boat. SO it may be easier for the DIY boater to repair and maintain. If you buy an I/O make sure it is something you can buy parts for. Avoid reverse rotation and old. An example of this is the Mercruiser 470 vs the 140. Same displacement and horsepower. But .. the 470 is an aluminum engine built by Mercury .. rare and parts are expensive. The 140 is a cast iron engine that is used by many utility engines (hysters, welders) as well as boats. Parts are cheap and plentiful.

Some older ford powered mercruisers are a pain for parts also. 888 and 898 come to mind. Mainly because they did not make millions of em like the chevy powered units.

The only valid reason to own an I/O is the used boat came with it. Modern outboards are so much more fuel efficient and reliable. You pay for this 10 years down the road with high shop bills and limited DIY opportunities. Repower sure is easier on an outboard. A new boat for me would be Honda outboard powered. 'Puffin's' 130 has withstood the test for sure. Just be ready to repower at 10 years old.

There is one boat that I would love to own and that is a Shamrock with a mid engine inboard. Gregotis98 has a Penn Yan with the same setup. Much better balance and layout. Most I/O boats are very tail heavy.

There are other I/O brands. I'm not very fond of older Volvos and OMCs .. many parts cost horror stories there.

Remember that Mercruiser invented I/O ... and with the exception of the newer Duo-Prop Volvos .. everyone else is still catching up.

Good topic. Funny you should mention shopping for boats.

[kenai]

Excellent post,
It may be co-incidence but, of the many distress calls I've heard over the years a boat "taking on water" seems to come up way too often.
There was another this Saturday out of Garibaldi.
The cause seems to be typically an IO with a seal leak, it would be curious to hear what the CG data says. That giant hole in the hull an IO has makes me nervous. I prefer the OB's

[CATCH AND EAT]

What makes a good boat is a good captain. A captain that knows his boat, knows the ocean and knows when to call a trip. All that other stuff is fluff.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

What makes a good boat is a good captain. A captain that knows his boat, knows the ocean and knows when to call a trip. All that other stuff is fluff.

Very true, and the first order of business for sure.

I would certainly appreciate you input on the cat aspect of boats.

Maybe Fyshndad could chime in on his boat as well. His dory has proven itself as a capable fish catching machine as have many other dories off the Oregon Coast.

[corrirod]

I can't speak for the other brands of cats, just the Glacier Bays. I can honestly say the 26' Glacier Bay cat is the best ride I have ever experienced. She's the "Belle of the Ball" in the line. I can talk until I'm blue in the face about how nice the ride is but you really won't fully believe it until you try it in sloppy conditions. There are quite a few people who currenty own mono-hulls that took demo rides on this boat. Hopefully they will chime in and give their feedback.

These hulls do ride very differently than monohulls. Even the different cat hulls in the line ride differently from each other. There is some stick time needed to get used to that but once you do get acquainted with it you will hate to ride in anything else.

Unfortunately they do come at a premium. A cat hull has about 60% more surface area than an equivalent sized monohull boat. That's a lot more glass to pay for. They need custom trailers that are typically about double the price of a normal trailer. They need twin motors and dual fuel tanks. All this stuff adds up.

In the big picture though, when you buy a cat, you get the ride of a much larger boat. You get good redundancy of motors and fuel tanks for safety. Large cockpits. Large berths with standup heads. Outstanding tight quarters manueverability because of how far apart the motors are mounted. They are very fuel efficient. Insulated fishboxes. Self bailing decks. And a lot of other features that most offshore boats offer.

[Something Good]

No thru-hulls. I don't like holes in my boats, had a bad experience once. Even weight distribution and reverse chines for better stability. Variable deadrise designed to keep the bow from rising at moderate speeds for good visibility. You can't always plane your boat out on the ocean around here.

[Nalu]

Rod- Cats- Some are planing, some are semi-planing, and some are pure displacement. Can you explain the difference?

[HugeDuckFan]

I've just navigated the waters here and made my choice on a number of factors that are in tune with my specific needs. I choose a 33' Striper with twin 250 OB's, after serisouly considering OceanSport Roamer 33' (this is my preferred boat, but cost was prohibitive at $370K), Robalo 30', Pursuit 30' Grady White 30', SeaSport 30, 33' Wellcraft, 28' Motion Marine. Many thanks to my boationg friends about their opinions, and all the threads I read in here.

Gunwale height. If YOUR center of gravity is higher than most...protrounding frontal lobe, spare 335/75/R20, extra large rear bumpers. The striper has a higher gunwale, and I'm 6'-7". Asides fomr the Ocean Sport and Seaposrt, these were BIG factors for me. I can still touch the water reaching over the gunwale, but I don't feel liked I'm getting clipped in bouncy waters or fight a fish on the rail. Grady, Robalo and Pursuit were both way too short for me.

Cabin height: I needed space to sleep myself and my family of 4. Everybody fit here for sleeping, but headroom was tight across the board. Striper had more room in their 11'6" beam than most. Ocean Sport won the category, hands down though. Oh, my wife one 2 weeks a year in the San Juans. Needed the extras down below...stand up head, shower, two berths, vacuflush, DVD and LCD TV, Microwave, and Genset. Striper was 3rd, after Ocean Sport and Seaposrt cabin layouts for cruising.

Helm layout. I can stand straight up in the Striper and OceanSport. I could not stand up in ANY other helm of a sport fishing type boat with hard top. Many of the larger yachts are also too short for my frame. Everyone that thinks being tall is cool, it's way overrated folks! I'd rather be a stubby fella like Dave.

Rear end space: Outboards were really nice here. More room for fish holds. Striper's holds could be bigger, but I have to learn how to fill up both of them before I complain. The Grady and Pursuite seemed larger, evening though they had smaller LOA and beam. I'm large. my freinds are large...big fishing deck is really nice. Striper and Ocean Sport won here, due to beam, LOA and the O/B motors.

Twin Outboards: Didn't take up below deck space, can get the motors out of the water, more mechanics available in smaller ports who are familiar with Yamaha gas motors, as opposed to Volvo D4 diesels. Sacrifice fuel economy, but save on weight and the capital cost of the diesel. Twins were required, as I have already run 40 miles off and Beer Waggin is sending me to the 126° line ;-)

Cost: In order of most to least expensive: Ocean Sport, SeaSport, Pursuit, Wellcraft, Striper, Grady White, Robalo, Motion Marine. If cost was no object, I would buy the Ocean Sport with twin d-6 diesels. Didn't seriously consider Cabo's due to cost, and I only see them in Mexico. I have fished them and loved them though.

Glass vs Aluminum. The glass rode better than anything, as expected. The Ocean Sport was the heaviest boat and had the best ride, but also turned the best of any boat I'd ever been on...full hard rudder at 50 mph, and it locked in like it was on rails. The Striper's ride I would consider average, among a group of very nice boats. The Motion Marine was too light in my book. I like aluminum boats, but I would not select one for myself.

Cat vs Monohull. Briefly thought about the GB cat, but prefered the traditional ride of the deep V. Have fished Aman Marines 26 cat, and it's a different ride. The boat did very well, but me thinks the captain was trying to beat me and ran the heck out out that boat on a sporty day. He then beat the heck out of my Striper on his first time behind the wheel. I think he was test driving the Striper that day, for competitive purposes. (I love ya brother AJ, still haven't seen that 34' you keep talking about!). They have a great ride and are pretty speedy displacement hulls.

Trailerability; I'm at the edge of practical trailering with a 33' x 11-6 and nearly 15000# combined weight. The Ocean Sport was heavier. The boat actually trailers really nice with a 650 HP diesel. Brakes can never be big enough though. All the other boats were lighter, expect the SeaSPort with Flybridge. At 13'4" clearance, I duck under every bracnh and tunnel, checking my mirrors for my radome and outriggers.

Fuel economy: I chose the least efficient, gas combination, but it feels good to help the crown prince buy another chromed Mercedes. This was a trade off for ease of maintenance, weight reduction, and corrosion reduction. Plus no big holes in my hull as in an i/o.

closed/sport cabin vs eisenglass. This is my biggest peeve with the 33 Striper. No sport package. I want a sport package. The eisenglass is really nice, but I'd like the sport cabin (with canvas drop curtain). Already looking at a one off conversion to a solid enclosure. I hear the 08 3301 will have a sport cabin in the later model year. For cruising the sport cabin would be much nicer.

After 2 months, I'm thrilled with the boat. Talk to me again in 2 years. I'll have more things I like and dislike, plus more time on others peoples boats for comparisions. I'm unique, in that size and comfort mean alot to me, and I had the ability to buy a sizable fishing boat. Individualality is everything here, some people will hate my boat, or features that I really like. Some people won't need the head room or the cruising comforts.

I wouldn't change much, but I would change a few little things or figure out how to buy what I felt I needed.

I love this stuff...keep it coming.

[Tower Todd]

Originally Posted by Pilar

Another impressive boat is the Stiegercraft Chesapeake 26'. Volvo D10 diesel with Duo-prop, huge cockpit 10' wide by 14' long.

I like to go for a ride in that one! What is that like 650 HP? Just pulling your leg brother....there is no Volvo D10. Maybe a D4 or D6? The D Series are pretty sweet.

TT

[Tower Todd]

One of the big differences between East Coast & West Coast style build are the gunwale heights. The E. Coast tends to build them very short compared to their W. Coast counterparts. I personally prefer the shorter height as I can reach the water. That's just me though. On my Alby the rail hits me right about knee height (I'm about 6'4"). Good non skid decks and coaming pads are the ticket for dealing with rougher water. Never ever felt unsafe while fishing it this way. I don't know how you guys can deal with the gunwales hitting you just below the hip...it'd drive me crazy.

TT

[Boats]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

What makes a good boat is a good captain. A captain that knows his boat, knows the ocean and knows when to call a trip.

But I also believe in good quality safety equipment as well. Even good captain's can have a bad day.

[Nalu]

Another boat to throw in the mix is a chamber boat. If Kujo still reads this, I can ostensibly predict his response... Faster, tougher, you can't keep up with a Rocket.

The production boats are Stabi and ACB. I've been passed by Spoonplugger in his ACB in true 3 foot chop. My Grady will run fine and not pound much up to about 18-22 knots in those conditions, but I know that Jerry can fly past me at closer to 30 knots and not get the tar beat out of him like I would.

And when I say TRUE 3 foot chop, that's what I mean. 3 foot chop on top of a little swell often seems to be represented as 4-5 foot by some.

My Grady is older, 1992 to be precise. The change in design to the newer Sailfish such as what Gary runs for team G Loomis smooths out the ride a little more with the euro transom and extended running area. Shift that to Bud's 30' GW Marlin and the weight difference becomes more noticeable. Bud and I came back strongly through true 4-5 foot chop at 24-26 knots on the port quarter and while bouncing and pounding every once in awhile, it was manageable and not the least bit uncomfortable.

[Moldy45]

My boat makes a good offshore boat and I am sticking to it! dont try to change my mind as it is a terrible thing to lose.

[Paddler]

I saw an Ocean Sport 30 in La Push this year. Looked new, and was completely rigged as a commercial troller. I told my buddy that it wasn't really a troller, but more of a tax write-off. Absolutely beautiful boat, though. Still like the Farallons, too.

One of the best offshore boats would be a displacement hull like the old trollers. Francis Cameron had a schematic in his book, "Pacific Troller". They had small deisel motors and lead ballast in the keel, so they handled large seas well. One of the worst features of most of the sport fishing boats with OB's is the high center of gravity. For example, the GW that flipped last year off Monterey just had a through hull fitting go. It took on enough water, then the OB's pulled it over. At least that's what it looked like to me, as the ocean was glass that day.

Things I would change about my boat include adding about 5', a cuddy (which means an enclosed bow) so you could comfortably spend the night, and reverse chines to allow it to plane at a lower speed and add stability while trolling. Silver Streak makes such a boat, not sure if North River and Hewes do the reverse chines. I'm sure that there are other makers, also. I would prefer a 2' longer boat over the ET, but that's just me. The cost would be about the same, if you could find somebody to build it. Maybe a 26' Silver Streak with a D4 would do.

[WaterDog]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

What makes a good boat is a good captain. A captain that knows his boat, knows the ocean and knows when to call a trip. All that other stuff is fluff.

Ahhhhh the voice of reason.........

:lurk:

_______________________________

[Maverick Maxcat]

The Maxcat is a different beast. I finally rode the GB cats at the Newport demo. Not enough for a true comparison, but enough to get somewhat of a feel.

Both cats will beat a similar sized monohull for ride comfort and roll stability. GB's are either semi-planing or displacement, Corrirod knows. The Maxcat is a true planing hull, basically 2 deep-v's welded together. The GB is smoother running in a moderate chop, totally soaks it up. The MC is still comfortable, you won't spill any beer, but you can feel the impacts as it flattens things out. Once it gets bigger I think the MC does a better job. I believe the GB will bottom out and slap the wet deck. The MC seems to 'doze through the chop and follow the swells. It is moving around, for sure, but no pounding or slapping at amazing speeds. The reason the MC's do so well is that they stay fairly level. You never lean over and slap on one side, the "V's" are always working for you.

I got to ride on a 34' Ocean Roamer this year. Not real snotty, just a little lumpy. Absolutely no contest, the MC is a much better ride, both running and trolling.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by Paddler

I saw an Ocean Sport 30 in La Push this year. Looked new, and was completely rigged as a commercial troller. I told my buddy that it wasn't really a troller, but more of a tax write-off. Absolutely beautiful boat, though. Still like the Farallons, too.

One of the best offshore boats would be a displacement hull like the old trollers. Francis Cameron had a schematic in his book, "Pacific Troller". They had small deisel motors and lead ballast in the keel, so they handled large seas well. One of the worst features of most of the sport fishing boats with OB's is the high center of gravity. For example, the GW that flipped last year off Monterey just had a through hull fitting go. It took on enough water, then the OB's pulled it over. At least that's what it looked like to me, as the ocean was glass that day.

Things I would change about my boat include adding about 5', a cuddy (which means an enclosed bow) so you could comfortably spend the night, and reverse chines to allow it to plane at a lower speed and add stability while trolling. Silver Streak makes such a boat, not sure if North River and Hewes do the reverse chines. I'm sure that there are other makers, also. I would prefer a 2' longer boat over the ET, but that's just me. The cost would be about the same, if you could find somebody to build it. Maybe a 26' Silver Streak with a D4 would do.

I'm curious about the comments regarding high center of gravity. How did you come to this conclusion? Heavy glass boats like Grady have very thick hulls, very little superstructure, and the majority of the weight seem to be down low. With only a tube aluminum frame and hardtop up high my guess was tht most walk arounds have a fairly low center of gravity, much lower than an aluminum boat with a pilothouse...but that's just a guess.

The fact is that most any boat, including the large Boston Whalers will turtle when filled with water. Some boats with positive flotation won't sink though. And some like ACB and Stabi won't turtle when filled with water. Boston Whalers and Grady's will stay afloat like the Grady in Monteray. Stripers, Trophies, North Rivers, Hewes, and most others will simply flip and then sink to the bottom, leaving you to hold onto a cooler handle as has been demonstrated here off the Oregon Coast.

Waterdog- I like your new signature line with the Grundens logo. I liked their logo so much I fashioned my own logo after it with some modifications! Pretty nifty.

[tomictime]

worried about turtle????, Almar offers self righting tower as an option...shamless promotion..

I have ridden in GB and MC cats, both are great up to their limits, which generally exceed mine, including $$$. The 34 Roamer is insanely expensive, well outfitted (lux interior)..and the two I looked at both had dry fiber breakout on the fishbox lids. You can draw your own conclusions about infusion build quality, I did.

No boat is perfect, nor any skipper.

[Bait O' Eggs]

A few things Mr Knowitall forgot

A good ocean boat wont have a thru hull fitting Just one more thing to go wrong and sink itself.

The boat will drift nose down drift for easier bottom fishing

You can raise the prop out of the water to clear fishing line and crab line

And dont forget the air ride seats

[tomictime]

now, here is FUEL for the fire..

aluminum
Jet
saltwater
self righting..

yippie, flame on


MANITOWOC, Wis., June 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- The Manitowoc Company (NYSE: MTW) today announced that, as prime contractor and program manager, it has been awarded a multi-year contract by the U.S. Coast Guard for the construction and delivery of up to 250 Response Boat-Medium (RB-M) vessels for a total contract value of up to $600 million.
Manitowoc will share the contract equally with its RB-M team partner, Kvichak Marine Industries of Seattle. Deliveries are scheduled to begin in the first half of 2008. The final design incorporates a 45-foot, self- righting aluminum hull propelled by twin water jets. The RB-M's diesel engines total 1,650 horsepower and provide a top speed in excess of 42 knots. The winning prototype utilized a design from Camarc, Ltd. and was constructed by Kvichak. Both Kvichak and Camarc have long experience in jet-driven, high- speed aluminum boats.
"Manitowoc Marine Group is gratified to continue its long and successful relationship with the U.S. Coast Guard," said Robert P. Herre, group president. "Federal government projects are among the most demanding for any shipbuilder, and the addition of the RB-M to our existing backlog of work for the U.S. Navy is an excellent endorsement of our capabilities. The RB-M will be built at Kvichak's Seattle facility and at Marinette Marine, where it will complement our Littoral Combat Ship (LCS). Both the RB-M and LCS are first- in-class vessels, and we can leverage the project management systems and tools that both projects require."
The Manitowoc/Kvichak team won a three-year competition to develop the replacement for the Coast Guard's original fleet of 208 41-foot Utility Boats (UTBs), which entered service in 1973. While the UTBs were primarily designed for search-and-rescue missions, the Coast Guard's current mission mandate now includes recreational boating safety, marine environmental protection, law enforcement/Homeland Security, and port and coastal security. The RB-M will also be operationally compatible with Department of Defense missions.
"This new class of vessel is perfectly suited for the Coast Guard's role in the 21st century," said Richard McCreary, vice president and general manager of Marinette Marine. "Its design provides flexibility for a broader range of missions that can now be accomplished with greater speed and safety. In addition, a state-of-the-art electronics suite and integrated lifecycle management system provide enhanced operational efficiencies. We fully expect the RB-M to help the Coast Guard be Semper Paratus (Always Ready) for the nation's needs."
About The Manitowoc Company
The Manitowoc Company, Inc. is one of the world's largest providers of lifting equipment for the global construction industry, including lattice-boom cranes, tower cranes, mobile telescopic cranes, and boom trucks. As a leading manufacturer of ice-cube machines, ice/beverage dispensers, and commercial refrigeration equipment, the company offers the broadest line of cold-focused equipment in the foodservice industry. In addition, the company is a leading provider of shipbuilding, ship repair, and conversion services for government, military, and commercial customers throughout the US maritime industry.
About Kvichak Marine Industries, Inc.
Kvichak Marine, located in Seattle, Wash., is a world-renowned builder of high-quality, high-speed aluminum boats for a wide range of markets. Kvichak is a full-service yard, encompassing new vessel design and construction, vessel conversion and refit, and life cycle support. Since initiating new vessel construction in 1988, Kvichak Marine has successfully delivered more than 300 vessels for a number of demanding markets and applications.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by tomictime

worried about turtle????, Almar offers self righting tower as an option...shamless promotion..

I have ridden in GB and MC cats, both are great up to their limits, which generally exceed mine, including $$$. The 34 Roamer is insanely expensive, well outfitted (lux interior)..and the two I looked at both had dry fiber breakout on the fishbox lids. You can draw your own conclusions about infusion build quality, I did.

No boat is perfect, nor any skipper.

What is a self righting tower Jim? Is that having enough volume up high that the center of gravity down low will overcome the inverted state and bring the vessel upright....like the CG boats?

[fortywinks]

Originally Posted by Bait O' Eggs

A few things Mr Knowitall forgot

A good ocean boat wont have a thru hull fitting Just one more thing to go wrong and sink itself.

The boat will drift nose down drift for easier bottom fishing

You can raise the prop out of the water to clear fishing line and crab line

And dont forget the air ride seats

Roy - You only need one air ride seat for yourself on your boat since you don't give your crew any breaks anyway! (Captain Sig) :grin:

[Tower Todd]

Originally Posted by Paddler

I saw an Ocean Sport 30 in La Push this year. Looked new, and was completely rigged as a commercial troller. I told my buddy that it wasn't really a troller, but more of a tax write-off.

That particular boat is a 30' that was streched 4' and set up to commercial fish. He has three of them. One here, one in Maui amnd one in Loreto Baja. Very nice gent, loves to fish. We were on the same dock last season in Westport and he just arrived in WP on Sat. so we talked again for a while. The boat is set up with twin D4 Volvos to douprop outdrives. Very nice!


TT

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by tomictime

now, here is FUEL for the fire..

aluminum
Jet
saltwater
self righting..

yippie, flame on

{SNIP}

Ok, but different type of craft than what I was sort of talking about. I had envisioned this more in the trailerable style of boat with the 30 footers sort of at the higher end, though the 33 Striper would squeeze under the wire. If we were to talk 32 plus then boats such as the Albemarle, Bertram, Cabo, and Topaz, and others would have to be discussed. :grin:

BOE- Agree that the boat needs to be able to drift stern to the wind. I didn't realize that cats don't tend to do this.

No thru-hulls? I can see the point, but I grew up with thru-hulls and don't share the same feelings. Boats with marine heads, holding tanks, live wells, etc. all have thru hull fittings. Most every boat that is of any size has multiple. I can agree that the concept is good.

Raise the prop- So, you mean a good ocean boat needs to be an outboard? :grin:

Air ride seats? I'll pass on those. I'm can't stand hearing my boat pound enough to justify the need for air rides. My downfall for having all the seating being midway on the vessel and towards the back is lack of a warm cabin. The upside is a softer ride, and direct access to the fishing area.

[Green Machine]

Wow, great topic here. Since it was mentioned already, I have never been impressed with the ride of a Sea Sport either. The fit and finish are top notch, but they still pound the heck out of you. In fact, my friend is parting ways with his 27' Sea Master to go back to.........another Trophy. The Cat's are great, hands down, but surprisingly some of the affordable boats actually hold their own out on the pond.

Green Machine

[Paddler]

I'm not a nautical engineer, I just guessed the center of gravity was high when the boat was upright. Judging by the way it floats in these pictures, I assumed it had outboards. It's a 26' Marlin, I believe. I didn't even know that it is called "turtling". I do know I don't want a boat that does this on a flat ocean:





I'd much rather float upright, just 'cause there's more to hold on to:



I realize the last photo is propaganda, but I think self-righting would be very nice to have on an offshore boat.

[Paddler]

Thanks, Todd. It looked longer than the Ocean Sport 30's on their website. But I'm pretty sure the name plate, decal, paint or whatever said Ocean Sport 30. I looked at it pretty close, just because it was such a nice boat.

[HugeDuckFan]

Ocean Sport makes a 30' standard, and a stretched 33'. I've been aboard both. The 33' gives you bigger fish boxes, the D-6s fit in the 33, but not in the 30. The gen set and freezer can be accommodated better on the 33 as well. The rest of the boat, forward of the rear cabin bulkhead is identical. The space on the aft of the 33 is much more like my Striper, tons of space to fish, nap, play, and BS. As of June, they had only delivered 3 or 4 of the 33's. What a boat, but the cost is prohibitively expensive...marble, teak, gigantic D6s and fancy electronics don't come cheap though. A very Northwest style boat, with a SoCal price tag. And it's trailerable, but order your Freightliner today.

[Maverick Maxcat]

Yup, Maverick drifts sideways to the wind. That's actually good, there's more room to spread anglers out. When the drift is too fast I have no trouble backing into it like everyone else.

Jets are a huge advantage in every area except speed and feul economy. No props to wrap, almost no maintainance, infinate speed control trolling, fantastic manouvering ability. I'm going to pick up some more knowlege before building my next boat, try to inprove performance while keeping the jet characteristics........

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by Paddler

I'm not a nautical engineer, I just guessed the center of gravity was high when the boat was upright. Judging by the way it floats in these pictures, I assumed it had outboards. It's a 26' Marlin, I believe. I didn't even know that it is called "turtling". I do know I don't want a boat that does this on a flat ocean:

The picture you show is a boat that is turtled- The hull is like the shell of a turtle.

I agree with you, I don't EVER want a boat that is in this position but here we depart thoughts. I WANT a boat that does this, both in flat water and in rough water should a catastrophe happen. When I purchased my vessel, the fact that this is how it would end up if there was ever a catastrophic problem was a selling feature. I would much rather have some form of possible floating vessel to either hold onto, or to have air rescue be able to get a visual on. A vessel that has sunk out of sight is of no benefit. The boats I knew of at the time that would do this were limited to Boston Whaler and Grady White. At that time I was not taking charters over 20 miles off shore, so I did not require a life raft. Having a boat that would stay afloat for rescue was a key factor in my decision making. As Tomic has pointed out, Almar apparently will add positive flotation to those vessels, so it may be possible to get North River to do it to some of theirs as an option.

But if it wasn't an added option, that means your boat is going to sink. It could be from a failed through hull, or a cracked weld from hitting a dead head through no fault of your own. Last year 2 men were floating for hours holding onto a cooler. Their boat had sank, and even though the Coast Guard had a general idea of where to look, they were a speck in the ocean. The story I heard was that the boat they were on had a backed up macerator pump and a fish box and deck that drained into the bilge. Loaded heavy with tuna they took water over the stern and were unable to pump the bilge out. They eventually swamped, then the boat turned nose up and sank.....just like several boats off the Oregon coast this year. That info may be incorrect, if so, someone with more knowledge please chime in.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by Maverick Maxcat

Yup, Maverick drifts sideways to the wind. That's actually good, there's more room to spread anglers out. When the drift is too fast I have no trouble backing into it like everyone else.

Jets are a huge advantage in every area except speed and feul economy. No props to wrap, almost no maintainance, infinate speed control trolling, fantastic manouvering ability. I'm going to pick up some more knowlege before building my next boat, try to inprove performance while keeping the jet characteristics........

So your next boat will be a jet driven one as well?

You have much more experience than others here with jet use in the ocean, plus you have two jets, each spread far apart. How would this relate to a single jet on a typical normal trailer boat? Would you agree that the Maverick is not exactly the "norm"?

[ducky-fish]

WOW after reading ALL this info from all you salty dogs really gets me to think about several factors. how many of these "custom" boats have flotation, and how often are you overloaded? gear, people, your catch, where you put your catch and bilge ability? (without a self bailing deck you guys really know how to open ones eyes that are commonly overlooked.thanks for the eye opener. i hope others have learned from this. thank you

[backlash442]

For the guys who don't like holes in the bottom of the boat; how many commercial boats do you think have their gear hanging off the transom? Where do you think those side scan sonars are located and other transducers etc.?

Guys may not want a hole in the hull but on the same token don't seem to be to concerned with a weld breaking 30 miles offshore. I've heard of more than one manufacturer having this happen. That scares me more than having a thru hull some how come out.

An IO can be raised to clear line etc off of it. Been there done that. You can even change a prop if you have to. Just don't drop the nut.

It's interesting reading what each person likes/dislikes. Alum. vs. glass. OB's vs. IO's or Inboards. In the end I don't think anybody is right or anybody is wrong. We all have our preferences. Besides if everyone liked the same thing it'd be kind of boring.

[SilverFly]

Originally Posted by Tinman

A couple of thoughts:

Originally Posted by Tinman

* Too many boats are stern heavy, and very vulnerable to swamping from astern. Owner's contribute to the problem by adding fishboxes, livewells, extra fuel tankage and all sorts of gear to the cockpit. 4-stroke outboards are also very heavy. Sea boats don't necessarily need the maximum rated outboard. Often a smaller, lighter motor provides a lighter stern and safer boat.

* A high bow and upswept sheer line (as in the C-dory you mentioned) are far better at riding out a blow. Yet most boats have a level sheer which makes them vulnerable to taking green water over the bow.

* The downside of self-bailing cockpits is that the raised deck also raises the boat's center of gravity, and decreases stability. Everybody is standing above the waterline, instead of below.

* Locally-built boats, designed for our waters, might be better than Florida- or California-built boats. Examples are Edwings and Pacific City dories.

And what about the "other" boat building material, - WOOD! When constructed with epoxy and fiberglass, - the result is a boat with a very high strength to weight ratio, and maintenance aproaching that of a fiberglass boat (not quite, - but the old "rot" issues aren't anything what they used to be). Wood also has a high capacity to absorb and release energy by flexing, and has the beneficial characteristic that it actually floats (a good thing in a boat material).

Not that I'm any expert on "offshore" boat designs, but like Tinman, my Dad always stressed a "sweeping sheer line". He was (and still is) also a big advocate of outboard wells to avoid stern swamping by moving the engine weight forward. While he tended to design boats with suprisingly low freeboard, he felt that enough beam and side flare, would compensate by stabilizing the hull and deflecting much of the spray and splash over. Of course it's hard to argue with the comfort that plenty of freeboard provides, - however (being pureblood Norwegian ) he alway's liked to point out that the Vikings got around pretty well in the North Atlantic in boats with some scary low freeboard amidships. I can't argue with his results because all the boats he's built have been damn seaworthy for their small size.

While not intended as a "offshore" boat, when I finish my 17.5' V-hull, I may take her out 10 miles or a bit more (after I'm very comfortable with her and I pick my days carefully). Originally I was going to finish her as a center console, but I've since decided I like the protection a bowcover and small cuddy provides.








When I originally designed this boat it was for big river, coastal bay, and nearshore use. If I build another one it will be on the order of 22' -24' (had some family changes, - like I'm getting 3 step daughters!). Hoping this one see's Barkeley Sound next summer!!!

[Grain of Salt]

"I saw an Ocean Sport 30 in La Push this year. Looked new, and was completely rigged as a commercial troller. I told my buddy that it wasn't really a troller, but more of a tax write-off. Absolutely beautiful boat, though. Still like the Farallons, too."




sorta like hooking a plow to a racehorse...

[skein]

My boat is perfect!

Actually, it IS perfect -- for me.

It has all the things I consider essential on an offshore sportfishing boat, like true scuppered decks, a rear helm, a dry cabin, and a good length-to-beam ratio. It will handle any water that I'm willing to fish in, and handles the rough stuff better than I do, i.e. when I want to come home, I have confidence it will get me there.

Some of the other things I like about it are:

* The rail is high enough to lean against safely, and tapers in just enough to allow you to stand with your toes actually pointing to the gunnel. A lot more comfortable than having to twist your feet to one side or the other to brace against the side.

* The swim platform/offshore bracket is big and high enough above the water to stand on if you need to without pushing it under water. I don't load it up with coolers full of fish though.

* The transom is flat, without the European slope or a splash well. When I stand at the transom I don't have far to reach to actually fight a fish off the stern. Waves tend to lift the swim platform rather than crash into the back of the boat.

One more point: my boat has a small outboard (140 4-stroke) for its size, yet seems to keep up with just about any of the boats out there. I think all too often a guy thinks in terms of raw horsepower or flat-out speed, and loses track of things like weight and balance and economy.

After four seasons I can honestly say I have not gotten 2 ft-itis, nor have I seen another boat anywhere near my price range that I would trade for. However, when I finally buy a lottery ticket and win the big one I will probably be giving Rod a call about one of those GB 26's. :grin:

I'm a simple guy.

Skein

[CATCH AND EAT]

Jim, I was too until the cat showed up on my doorstep.

Nalu, I believe the Glacier BAy to be more a semi-displacement hull than anything else. Love the boat in a head sea. Following sea takes a little getting use to in really big stuff. Trim is very important to make a comfortable ride in a cat. Just requires stick time to figure out how to trim it.

Advantages:

1. smooth ride, little if no pounding. Rare for props to leave the water completely unless you are really moving.

2. Stable fishing platform to fish from. Cab is offset so walk around on the right side has a wide tred-way to make the way to the bow to fish.

3. Come's out of the hole very quickly and for a cat they are pretty quick while running in sloppy seas.

4. Lot's of fishing room on the back deck of a 2680

5. Love the swim platform off the back between the motors. More than one occasion I have used this to clear line from the props without taking a swim.

6. Big fish boxes!

7. Good milage for twin motors. Getting the same economy as I did with my v6 on the 23 foot trophy.

8. Handles like a big boat on the ocean.

9. Hulls are built and reinforced for solid impacts. I have bumped a couple of logs and sharks this summer and not one bit of damage



Drawbacks:

1. fish box drainage very poor

2. snap roll if you don't know what to do when driving this boat in a following sea.

3. yamaha 150's don't maintain positive thrust to get you up and over the next swell in a following sea. Tends to slow more than I would like but that may be a personal preference. Most yamaha owners will attest to this I think. Not a boat problem but a motor issue.

4. Rod storage is poor and radar arch is useless for rod storage while fishing. Looks nice but..........

5. at slow speed there is a bit of hull slap between the sponsons that is interesting.

6. Steering is a little stiff for my liking.

7. The standard trailer they come with pretty much sucks


The boat is great and I am glad I made the correct choice when I purchased it. Wish I could afford a 3080 but kids in college now and there goes the mad money.

I think that in a following sea with my skill level that some mono hulls can out run me. Other than that I can keep up with most boats out there with exception to a certain 57 foot Bertrum that can do 35 knots in 6 foot seas. One Bad Fish!

[skiffman]

Thanks Nalu and all - this shared wisdom is really helpful to briny pups like me whose hearts are starting to stray over the bar...but whose boats don't. Well, I guess mine could - hey, people have rowed them across the Atlantic - but I'd be an old man before I got back from the fishing grounds. Think 1870, guys in slickers hauling in codfish and rowing home.

Seems like two hull types have come up for discussion - catamarans and v-hulls. Any opinions on the aluminum pontoon boats such as Stabicraft - at an (amateur) reading they seem to have an interesting combination of safety and comfort ?

But really, here's all you need:

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by Nalu

Very true, and the first order of business for sure.

I would certainly appreciate you input on the cat aspect of boats.

Maybe Fyshndad could chime in on his boat as well. His dory has proven itself as a capable fish catching machine as have many other dories off the Oregon Coast.

Ok I will chime in

I love my Harvey Dory
It has its down sides like being too small but it is one of the safest feeling boats I have ever operated
I feel in total control with her and when on the deck I feel like I am safe
Bigger boats that I have fished from were so short sided that I felt I would fall overboard but the Dorys; sides hit me just below the crotch and I am 6ft tall
In fact the rod holders serve as a holder for the big brass ones many claim I must have

She will take the slop just fine so long as I do not push her too fast
She will also take extreme water easily just gotta slow down

If I do not slow it down we get pounded to death
Even at slow speeds we get an occational pounding

The boat lacks storage and with only a 90 hp OB if I load too much wieght it will not plane

The way I have it set up we stay dry except when fighting a fish in the rain

I bought a kill bag from Bud & that really helped out with the amount of fish I can bring in

The hull design was intended for our offshore waters
I have had her out 60 miles by carrying 3 extra 12 gallon tanks which gives me a total of 86 gallons but that allows for only 2 people to go

The main thing is that the dory will take the bad stuff with ease and do it safely

[hetchy]

I've had my Aluminum Chambered Boat now for about a year and have put it to the test on a regular basis in the waters off the Golden Gate which can get pretty nasty with the tides coming out of San Francisco Bay meet the swells off the ocean. Its everything I hoped for when I went up to Bellingham and ordered it. Here is why I think it is a excellent offshore boat.
1.The 9 air chambers make the boat virtually unsinkible without the use of foam which over time can absorb water and on a aluminum boat doesn't let air circulate which can lead to galvanic corrosion. This was the first manufacturer to receive this rating from the USCG, I don't know if there are others now. As part of the testing the deck scuppers on these boats have been plugged, the boat filled with water and was still able to drive away from the dock. Its a good feeling when offshore to know that if something was to happen at least the boat would not sink.
2.The widest part of the boat is at water level making them very stable.
3.When drift fishing the stern stays to the seas.
4.Twin outboards plus a kicker, each with its own line from the tank.
5. I'm not really sure why but the boat flies into the chop without beating you up and are a dream to drive in following seas. Have never felt a broach coming on like I have in other vessels.
6.Made several trips to Washington while my boat was being built and would say these boats are overbuilt but there really isn't such a thing as overbuilt when you are offshore. The 1/2" thick aluminum under the bow is great for beaching and I suppose if the boat ran into something.
7. 3 batteries,raw water washdown,downrigger bases with electrical for the Scottys factory wired.
8.The boats turn on a dime at high speeds, really fun to drive.
9. When I get back to my berth, tilt the engines up give them a quick flush, hose off the boat and it always looks great.Doesn't take a lot of time to keep the boat looking good. I think aluminum is easy to maintain.
10.The v berth isn't very big but I can sleep in it and its a somewhat secure place for storage.
11. The helm controlled anchor windless with the Bruce anchor, 50' of chain, 200' of line going into a self draing well with airflow for drying the line.
12. Plenty of rails, hatch from cabin to bow,a Jim Bouy mounted on the outside of the transom in easy reach.

Anyhow I am thrilled with my boat, it wasn't the least expensive thing on the water but I am happy I spent my money on it. I know this thread wasn't asking about who makes a good offshore boat but what makes one. I think many off the features in this brand make very good safe offshore boat.

[tomictime]

Mike: tower is a tower with inflation bag triggered by imersion or Pyro. The newer pilot and rescue pilothouses rated for that sort of stuff have enuf flotation (airchambers, etc..) up hi to generate the righting force.

good thread

[Maverick Maxcat]

Originally Posted by Nalu

So your next boat will be a jet driven one as well?

You have much more experience than others here with jet use in the ocean, plus you have two jets, each spread far apart. How would this relate to a single jet on a typical normal trailer boat? Would you agree that the Maverick is not exactly the "norm"?

I have not decided on drives for the next one, but it has been painfull to watch others tangle piles of tuna gear when the boat turns in the wind while they fight a fish. Several have also expressed concern about large amounts of handline and/or tuff-line around shafts and props. The jets eliminate these problems.

A twin jet is a totally different critter than a single. Maverick spins better than most because of the distance between the pumps, but any twin jet is far better than twin props in close quarters. It's pretty easy to drive in the ocean. The jets provide constant thrust, so the speed self-regulates to some extent. Props provide much more thrust for the same power input, due to their larger diameter. This is most critical in sloppy conditions and when packing heavy loads. I have to use more throttle, and burn more fuel, than I would with props in the transition area between displacement travel and planing. I believe that going to larger pumps would be a big help, but I'm going to research it before I commit to anything.

I've ridden several different Maxcats, and they are all similar in ride. The ones with less "V" are a little harsher, but plane slower and use less power and fuel. It's that tradeoff thing again....

[corrirod]

Sorry for the late post. I had a long post made up and then I made a wrong click and lost it! :shocked: Didn't have time to re-type it.

Anyway, the question on the Glacier Bay hulls, displacement vs. planing. The Glacier hulls are considered "High Speed" displacement. When I asked the GB engineer what that meant he explained to me that because of the sharp angle, AND I DO MEAN SHARP, the hull actually has little resistance or drag in the water. The angle is so sharp that the bow of the sponson works more like an airplane wing and just "cuts" through the water like a knife. It actually wasn't until our Hammond Demo Day that I really noticed just how different these hulls displace water. When looking at a normal mono-hull running thru the water you will notice that a wave or spray will start almost immediately following the very tip of the boat hull. In a Glacier the wave or spray won't start until almost half way back, which is where the hull widens. The front of the hull is in the water but it's not pushing anything, its just cutting through.

This is the same feature that helps give them such good fuel economy. I just ran a 26 Center Console last month for BoatTest.com and at 32 MPH we were still getting 2.0 MPG!! Not bad for a big, heavy, twin 150 Yamaha boat. At 20 MPH we were getting 3.08 MPG! That's a 498 mile range on a tank of fuel. Heck, if you're really not in a hurry, at 7.7 mph you can get a 620 mile range! At that speed you could get all the way to Alaska and back on less than 3 tanks of gas!

As with any boat, they are never "perfect", especially not perfect for everyone. I think in 99.9% of every new boat purchase the new owner will have to change something, or move something, or add something to get it the way they want it. That said, I think anyone that does even the slightest amount of research for a boat will typically buy a boat that they will be happy with, or that they can "make into" a boat they will be happy with. Where I like a bleed bucket isn't where someone else likes it. Pole holder location, storage needs, etc., are all things people like to be a certain way. No one boat is good for all.

Some features I like to see on fishing boats is:

• Full walkaround capability
• Freshwater system for spraying reels, hands, lures, etc.
• Raw Water washdown
• Large bleed tanks/Livewells
• Insulated boxes to keep your ice in good shape the whole trip
• Flush Mount electronics
• Large anchor well for storing rope, chain, and fenders
• Handrails on the roof inside the cabin
• Toe Rails
• Access to the lower units on the motors so if you have to get free from a crab pot or if you have to change a prop you can do it without hanging off the back of the boat
• As little water in the bilge as possible.
• Access to all the hardware and appliances on the boat so they can be maintained or replaced easily
• Easy access to wiring

Just a few of my favorites.

[Spoonplugger]

I would have to agree with fyshndad about the Harvey Dory. I had one that I bought new in the early 1980's. I absolutely loved that boat. Back then the CG wouldn't keep us in the bay so we experienced some hairy situations. I'm very impressed with the capabilities of that boat. With a 70 HP Merc we could travel about 25 or so knots, but like Hank says, would have to slow way down in the rough stuff. I recall one time getting caught out in 45 knot SW winds. The winds surprised the forecasters and us. It took hours to travel from the mouth of the Siletz to Depoe. To this day I have never been in that steep of wind chop, basically 8 to 10 foot constant breakers. It did comfort me to know it had full flotation.

Before the Harvey I had a 22 foot Bartender. That was also a great boat until dry rot was found and I then parted with it getting the fiberglass Harvey. Before the Bartender I had two other dories, one 20 foot double ender and a smaller 18 foot square stern. Long story short, the dories built for our waters are great boats and very economical both to purchase and to operate.

I had an I/O once and decided never again. I had an older Starcraft we called the Star Cart. It fished out of Depoe Bay for years. My old ugly yellow/orange Starcraft has fished tuna out as far as 40 miles. But I hated how it performed in following seas. It did have full flotation.

The boat I have at present is the same type that hetchy above comments on and that Nalu mentioned earlier. I agree with hetchy fully in the performance of that boat in wind chop and traveling in following seas. I've traveled full throttle from tuna town to Depoe Bay in a following sea with a 5 foot swell and a 3 foot wind chop on top and never once felt threatened. Why, I don't know. All I can figure is that it must have something to do with their patented hull design. The separate air tight chambers provide the boat its flotation. The bottom could be ripped off and the motor could fall off, but the ACB would still float high enough that you could at least get out of the cold water.

I do have a "kind of" complaint about my particular boat. As a center console, it is a wet boat. It has a hard top and we can stay out of the rain. But in the type of seas as stated above there is a river of water running down the deck and out the scuppers when traveling at 30 plus knots in that stuff. We compensate by all wearing rain gear when running. One thing however that I really have been enjoying with the center console is quickly stepping to the front of the boat with my crew unaware and casting to and catching jumpers. That makes my whole trip. I guess if I had chosen a fully enclosed cabin over center console I wouldn't really know what I would of missed. On a nice day the center console is unreal to fish out of. I guess another plus for the open type boat in rough seas is that when we get back to the dock every speck of blood and guts are gone. All I have to do is rinse the boat with fresh water to get the salt off.

Like Nalu mentioned above about choosing the Grady because if swamped at least the hull would still be visible to a rescuer, is a very excellent reason. When I did a search on Google a few years ago while researching my next boat, I typed in “unsinkable boat” and I found the ACB website. I checked out Stabi-craft (which are great boats) and a couple other boats in northern Washington. We test drove and ordered what we decided on. I do not regret my purchase.

My main requirement in an offshore boat is: Full flotation. We wear life jackets, and so should the boat.

[Nalu]

Silverfly- That's a pretty boat, and sure to be a winner when you are finished with it.

Spoonplugger- One of these days I'm going to hitch a ride with you. I have to say, of all the boats I see out there, Jerry's ACB seems to really mesh a lot of the benefits. It's interesting to see him skip across waves as he passes, and not get the "slam" that you see other boats get when coming off a wave. Seems more like the boat kind of "squishes" down for lack of a better word.

Lots of choices out there in boats. As a purchaser I knew I couldn't afford to get into the size and type of boat that I wanted to take customers and buy new. Another factor that was critically important in my boat search....an enclosed head. Taking paying customers I wanted to make sure that there was a private head. Seating was important as well. There is no problem seating 4-5 people plus myself at the helm. Might not matter to others, but does to me. Funny thing, move up to the 30 foot Grady White Marlin, and the seating is actually not as well laid out as the Sailfish.

Certainly lots and lots of fine boats out there in tons of different makes and models that make excellent offshore boats. Keep it coming, I think this is the type of info that lots of prospective boat people might find useful.

[backlash442]

Are there any double ender boats still being made today?

[no interest]

I would think that a boat with a crash bulkhead would be a very wise choice. We sometimes run at high rates of speed in less than perfect visibility. The ocean is full of surprises and most of them seem to be under the surface. If I were ever to have a boat built it would definitaley have a crash bulkhead. Just my 2 cents

[Two Fister]

Originally Posted by skein

However, when I finally buy a lottery ticket and win the big one I will probably be giving Rod a call about one of those GB 26's. :grin:

I'm a simple guy.

Skein

Skein,
Why stop at the 26' when this is available....




Glacier Bay 2005 3490. Less than 200 hours on Cummins QSB 380hp common-rail diesels. All for the used asking price of $399,000 on the hull truth website.

Better win the powerball to buy this bad boy.....

[skein]

Two-Fister, that's not fair!!!

As for Spoonplugger, I can testify to his boat's handling capabilities. Last year I was slogging my way into Depoe from 48 miles out, and he was running around me like it was kiddie day at the wading pool. All I could do was shake my head.

There are some NICE boats in the Salty Dog fleet.

Skein

[Hoghunter]

Originally Posted by Nalu

Silverfly- That's a pretty boat, and sure to be a winner when you are finished with it.

Spoonplugger- One of these days I'm going to hitch a ride with you. I have to say, of all the boats I see out there, Jerry's ACB seems to really mesh a lot of the benefits. It's interesting to see him skip across waves as he passes, and not get the "slam" that you see other boats get when coming off a wave. Seems more like the boat kind of "squishes" down for lack of a better word.

Lots of choices out there in boats. As a purchaser I knew I couldn't afford to get into the size and type of boat that I wanted to take customers and buy new. Another factor that was critically important in my boat search....an enclosed head. Taking paying customers I wanted to make sure that there was a private head. Seating was important as well. There is no problem seating 4-5 people plus myself at the helm. Might not matter to others, but does to me. Funny thing, move up to the 30 foot Grady White Marlin, and the seating is actually not as well laid out as the Sailfish.

Certainly lots and lots of fine boats out there in tons of different makes and models that make excellent offshore boats. Keep it coming, I think this is the type of info that lots of prospective boat people might find useful.

Lots of good info in here about boats and what people want. Nalu I had a 30 Marlin and loved it except for the issue with the seating and also I hated the fact that all access to the generator and other accessories in the aft compartment required you to remove caulk and screws. I thought this was a poor design flaw. Because of these issue's I sold the Marlin and bought the 305 Express which so far I absolutely love. It has the seating around the helm for the skipper and passengers, it's got plenty of fishing space and the access to the aft compartment is now gained through a compression deck hatch which works great. As with all boats there's trade off's from one to the other. The fishing space is less on the Express by about 8 square feet and I lost the recessed walk around. But I felt the gains in seating, aft compartment access and liveability in the cabin area made up for those losses.

I'm sold on fiberglass and believe me I shopped and drove the Aluminum competition before buying my present boat.

[skiffman]

Originally Posted by backlash442

Are there any double ender boats still being made today?

www.bartenderboats.com - these guys bought the rights from George Calkins, the bartender designer. They mostly sell kits but believe they will build or know buiilders. There's a very active bartender group on yahoo.

www.nexusmarine.com - think they'll build a St. Pierre dory which I believe is double-ended at the waterline.

[Tinman]

In addition to all the good things said about dories, there is the ability to launch off the beach at places like Pacific City and Gearhart.

[Nalu]

Originally Posted by Two Fister

Skein,
Why stop at the 26' when this is available....




Glacier Bay 2005 3490. Less than 200 hours on Cummins QSB 380hp common-rail diesels. All for the used asking price of $399,000 on the hull truth website.

Better win the powerball to buy this bad boy.....

Nice boat, but not in the trailer sailor size!

The 34 GB I saw in Hammond had outdrives. I'm pretty confident that I wouldn't want to have outdrives in a boat this size. Doesn't make sense to me.

Your thoughts Rod?

[ron m]

Lots of good things to think about in this thread.

Much of what one wants in a boat is driven by how it'll be used and by whom. I didn't have to accomodate anyone else when i got my boat, hence it's set up for fishing and crabbing and would be almost useless for cruising. But for a 23 ft boat, I don't think many are better for fishing from except maybe a center console. but for running out to fish and then coming back in, many boats are better than mine since my "cabin" is about the size of a phone booth. The tradeoff thing again. And Rod is right about rod holders and where folks would like to have them. rod holders for fishing and rod holders for rod storage too. Oh, another good thing about the "phone booth" size pilot house is my boat has excellent all-around visibility. Better than the cabin style Edwings, partly because the helm is higher.

There are some minor things I'd change if I had another 23 ft boat built by Ed, but I'd probably go with a 26 instead. Wish I could, but it ain't gonna happen. A 26 ft GB? I'd probably have to win the lottery since Rod said my Edwing might sell for enough to make a down payment!
ron m