Is the Kenai overrated ?

[Get Bit]

With all this Alaska talk going on I can't help but look back at a couple of my own trips up north and begin to plan my next.The first question that arises is to fish for Kenai Kings or not? HHHMMM... Lets see... I understand the intrigue with catching that once in a lifetime King of 70 lbs., but in placing all the cards on the table I really think the Kenai King fishery is entirely overrated. In comparing it to lets say Tillamook for example, the average Kenai King was last I heard somewhere in the mid twenties and took the average angler 31 hours to catch. In Tillamook, the last fish average I saw was 30 + pounds and does it take the average guy 31 hours to catch one ?
That brings us to the subject of cost on the Kenai.Two years ago the average trip was $125 per angler for 5 1/2 hours. The limit is 1 King a day and 2 for the season. Tillamook -2 per day, ten for the season. Sure a guide will decrease that 31 hour average but come on! How much are Tillamook guides getting paid for an 8 hour trip? Sure its worth doing once but dollar for dollar, fish for fish I'll spend my money on a fly-out trip that takes me to place where my(as RT put it)timing,timing,timing is perfect every time! Maybe to Redoubt Lodge Jen. Maybe a quick drive to the Russian for some red combat, clamming at the gulch after a nice breakfast at the lodge,a Moose tour up the North Spur Road, or if I absolutely have to catch a King how a bout a trip down the Kasilof. No Kenai for this guy. Not trying to offend anyone because Alaska is the best and it's definitely not a once-in-lifetime trip for the hardcore angler.What's everyone else's take on this ?
Planning for next summer's trip,
Get Bit

[Gone Fishin]

I'd always dreamed of fishing the fabeled Kenai, I spent hours reading about it, hours watching videos of it as well. Four years ago I finally made my way to Soldotna and the home of the Kenai. What I saw when I arrived was remarkable, there in front of me was the famous Kenai, home to the biggest chinook on the planet. It was also home to the biggest crowd I've ever seen! It made the Willamette look like a ghost town during the busy days of springer season!

This wasn't Alaska the way I'd visioned it. I thought about wilderness, away from the crowd. But this was like the I-5 / 205 interchange at 5 pm!

There is alot more to Alaska than the Kenai, there are places to get away from the crowds and experience some of the best fishing in the world. I've seen one and I know there are more. To me Alaska is about wilderness and world class fishing not crowds.

I feel you have better chances for a whole lot less dollars in Tillamook over the Kenai.

Oh by the way, I was in Soldotna for several days and not once did I even wet a line in the Kenai. Probably never will.

[Jennie@ifish]

After I fished the Kenai, I felt like what I had seen the previous spring on TV around Bonneville. Boat to boat carpeting.
It wasn't what I expected either.
Combat fishing.
For Kim and Chris, it is partially a social thing. You do see people year after year, and if you know all the guides it's kind of fun.
I saw Willie and Steve Kolher, and a couple others I knew, and had heard about.
It's also about the size of fish.
I got off the Kenai, a bit disappointed, and got on the float plane.
On the way over, and landing at Mt. Redoubt, a grin spread over my face that wouldn't stop.
THIS IS ALASKA! Abs WILD and so gorgeous!
However, after being stuck there for a bit, I couldn't wait to get back to the Kenai and civilization!
I like them both. They are just SO different!
Jen

[Bait O' Eggs]

I have never been to Alaska, but think about it all the time. I often wonder if I should just pack up the family and move there. The Alaska Marty experienced on his trip would ruin a lot of my dreams.

I have a couple really good buddies that go every year. They were fishing the Kenai from July 9th thru July 15th this year. These guys really got after the fishing. They each booked 4 trips with guides on the Kenai. One guy never had a bite, the other guy caught 2 kings, One in the mid 20's the other 56 pounds. I would be highly dissappointed if I paid for 4 guided trips and got skunked on the Kenai when people are saying it is HOT. They did great on Halibut, but the Halibut were not all that big.

The bright point is all the other fish they each caught in less known places. The were telling me about all the places "just off the road" that have great fishing. Lakes that are just out of sight from the main road, with great fishing.

I will see the Kenai soon, I hope to find the Alaska I read about, not the one Marty experienced. I doubt I would wet a line in a huge crowd. I only put up with the Oregon City springer crowd because it is 5 minutes from my house.

How is the job market in Alaska ??? hmmmmm......

There is NO place like home. Ask Jennie. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Joe Schwab]

To my knowledge, no one has tried to sell the Kenai as a wildernes adventure. It is a chance, and I do mean chance to catch the largest King salmon that swims.. It is also affordable to those who cannot handle the cost of remote lodges. You can drive your family to the Kenai, bring your own boat and fish all day and all night. If numbers of fish are your thing then by all means do not go to the Kenai. In four years of guiding there I manged to land 4 fish over 65 lbs for clients. None of them had ever caught a salmon before of any size. I have yet to land a salmon over 50 in Oregon although I know they are there and many have. The crowds are a problem anywhere popular fisheries exist. Love it or hate it the Kenai will continue to draw thousands. Look at it this way. All those people go to the Kenai and leave the out of the way places for you to enjoy. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[ 07-24-2001: Message edited by: Capt. Hook ]

[Bobberdown]

If you can afford to fly out and get away from the crowds you will love Alaska. If not and you plan to fish the famous river for the biggest salmon you are going to be disappointed. The average size of the fish on the Kenai river are getting small each year. Yea sure you still have a shot at the big ones. I lived up there for 6 years (late 80's early 90's). Every year more and more boats on the river and fewer and fewer fish. Its going to sound a little sick to most of you (well maybe not) but I pick where I live based on fishing. I didn't know what to expect when I moved to Oregon. On the Kenai the best day we ever had was 4 on and 3 in the boat. On the coast in Oregon we have had 10 fish days where we limited out the boat with 6 beautiful Chrome fish in the 20 to 45 pound range. We don't have to fight crowds and our trips don't require saving for half a year to be able to do it. I will take Oregon over Alaska (unless your talking fly in) any day of the week. Any one look at how long the season is in Alaska? Last time I looked we can fish pretty much year round. AAAHHH Fisherman's paridise. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[rags]

I've fished the Kenai several times and by far my favorite time is for Silvers. The "Big King Crowds" are gone, hotel and rental boat prices are reduced and you have the Silver, Rainbow and the famous Sockeye runs in the river. September is a great time to be there. Fish the upper Kenai for the big rainbow. The Russian River for Sockeye and the Kenai for Silvers. You can rent a boat for $50 per day. Late August and early September is the ideal time. I do agree with others, we have some of the best fishing year around in our own backyard, Oregon and Washington.

[David Johnson]

Me and Marty have fished were you can catch 30 to 100 kings in a day for a boat on a regular basis and many times never share the same hole with more than a few boats. Marty even caught one on a spinner made out of a chew can lid!

I've fished AK for ten years in four different geographic areas, including the Kenai twice, and have seen the crowds and seen not another soul. i sugjest you do some home work and think about what you want to do.

[fishbait]

The kenai id ok if you set your expectations right and you don't have to pay for a guide. I have fished it many times is search of the 70+ pounder. We usually rent a boat for 2 days only. Most times we get 2 - 5 fish per day, it amazes me how many people do not catch fish there. You have to pay attention to the tides as these are moving fish. I have never cought the big one, but I have released a fish that was close to 65 lbs and she had long tail sealice. With the fish runs down here this year, I made the decision not to go to Alaska this year and spend the $ and the time on springers, brights and fall hogs. Think it was a good decision. But back to the question....the keani is ok if you know what you are getting into but the best times are the fly out trips.

[Phish_on]

Seemed to me that Alaska was all about the timing of the runs. The salmon were either there or NOT. The Kenai was NOT when I was there.

Fished once further up the river, where you have to hike down into a canyon. It was just beautiful and isolated ... caught a nice Dolly Varden on a fly and lost about a half-pint of blood to the mosquitoes.

Just the color of the water as you looked down from the top of the canyon was worth the walk.

There are so many options up there - - - must go back ...

We had a pretty good time combat fishing at Clear Creek, out of Talkeetna. It only cost about $30 for a ride up and back. Met a lot of "interesting" people, everyone is in a pretty good mood when everyone is catching fish! Not a wilderness experience, though.
Actually it is kind of the middle of nowhere, but with a few hundred people all in one spot.

[Get Bit]

Kim,
I think a King like that in your picture is worth fishing a couple of days on the Kenai.
Absolute gorgeous fish! Rauly and I would like to talk to you about group rate for next summer. When do the silvers come in on the Kasilof ?

GetBit

[Elwood]

Is the Kenai overrated? That depends upon your expectations. With tens of thousands of sockeye, a few thousand Kings, and incredible numbers of resident rainbow and dolly-varden over 10 lbs you can’t expect to be fishing by yourself. I have fished the Kenai numerous times and haven’t found it that different than being on the Sandy, or the Clackamas at High Rocks when the fish running. Sometimes people on the banks are great, and other times they are jerks. I have also seen public areas on the Kenai almost deserted with plenty of room to fish, and lots of fish in the river. Just have to pick your times and place. The public access areas are limited, so most people fish in just a few areas. We have the ability in Oregon and Washington to fish for Salmon and Steelhead almost year round, and Alaska’s salmon season is relatively short, (late May-early September). But we don’t have any rivers that size that put up the kind of numbers that the Kenai does. The river can absorb 90,000 sockeye and 3-5,000 kings in one day, and the same number the next. Fishing can go from nothing to wonderful in just a day. If you time it right, fishing is great, but only for a short period of time. The difference of just a few days can make either a fishing trip of a lifetime, [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] or an expensive sight seeing trip. [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

You can always sleep, get up and fish.
Elwood

The first time I saw Soldotna I had the same reaction of disappointment that I had experienced the first time I saw Cambell River on Vanc, Island - disappointed to see car dealerships and McDonald's and lots of people and traffic. The worst traffic was on the Kenai River itself. This is an awesome river with some awesome fish swimming up it; although not as many as there used to be. But it is not what I prefer to experience when answering "the call of the north". In '87 Chris (Jen's friend Chris Sessions she fished the Kenai with) and I took a month long trip towing a sled up to the Kenai and camping on it's banks. Along with 2 others we fished 18 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 4 weeks. We happened to hit it lucky on one of the best runs in years with good water conditions. We had several double figure days and some slower days with 3 or 4 fish. During this month, from mid-June to mid-July '87, the largest fish we caught was 74 lbs. Most of the fish we caught were typically 30 to 40 lbs. We did catch a few in the 50 to mid 60 lb. range for the 4 weeks. Definitely good fishing. But what kept this from being a much better experience was the heavy crowds of boats in all the good holes. These crowds have increased over the years while the fish runs and size averages have decreased. I am in agreement with Marty about strongly prefering an uncrowded wilderness fishing adventure up in AK and BC. That is what I have done since (in SE AK and NW B.C.). As mentioned, the Nushagak R. has thick runs of Kings - but the boat traffic is getting thicker every year there too. And the fish aren't as big or bright as many other places. The 2 best King fishing experiences I have ever had by far were both in NW B.C. In '89 I driftboat fished several days on a great section of the Kitimat River, with never more than 4 or 5 other boats! We caught and released double figures of huge Kings every day. The largest was about 70+ pounds (the one in the pic on my former moderator page for ifish). We caught many between 50 to 60 and many between 25 to 40. Unlike the lower Kenai, this is in a gorgeous coastal BC mountain range with awesome scenery. But it too has had increased pressure and decreased runs in recent years. But here's the important point ... northwestern British Columbia is full of such fantastic rivers, full of the world's biggest fish and great scenery, that haven't gotten crowded and have big runs of fish intact. Just as importantly, many of these rivers are accessable by car for a fraction of what the more crowded AK rivers will cost you! The fish in the Skeena River tributary Kalum R. has just as big of Kings on average as the Kenai and less pressure by far - and can be driven to in about 20 hours. The dept. of fisheries there test net every year and catch fish over 100 lbs. The reason they aren't landed by sportsfishers, yet anyway, is because that river has a much faster gradient than the lower Kenai. Where the overcrowded Kenai has the only true huge Kings in AK (along with the huge crowds and luck factor), NW B.C. has countless rivers with huge trophy Kings along with the world's biggest steelhead. These steelhead can also be reached relatively inexpensively by car or van in many places, including the famous Kispiox River. The best steelhead rivers are flyin though, and will cost you - such as the Sustut, Babine, and Dean rivers. But the huge Kings are actually more accessable. Late last summer I fished a relatively unkown river well up in NW B.C. that is a tributary of the big Nass River. We drove and stayed at the only remote lodge near there and had it almost to ourselves, while catching numerous huge Kings. Much less money or driving than AK. ... So, am I invested in B.C. tourism? [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] No. I just have always been adverse to the overly expensive trips that many of the AK outfitters represent - and want you ifishers to know there are better experiences for less money. Do a little research and find your own accessable paradise there!

RT

I'd be happy just fishing lower bc's Vedder River. It gets about 40,000 chinooks around Sept. thru Nov. but also gets lots of people.

[Kim Katsion]

Get Bit, The silvers start coming in late July-Aug. 1st and we put the hurt on them last year on the Kasilof! The Kenai is closed to silver fishing on Aug 1,2, and the 3rd, other than that FISH ON! Let me know how I can help you guys out with planning, I chatted with Rauly about a group plan. Looking forward to it. Kim

To answer the original question almost all advertising for fishing travel is overrated. Just like most businesses. But it is still a nice place to fish if you can afford it. Frog

[Thumper]

Although we often don't realize it, we live, right here, in fisherman's heaven --- again, right here folks!!! In Alaska the runs are huge, and the fish can be huge, but try catching a fish in the Kenai in January. Those are seasonal runs, and many times in the year the rivers in Alaska are sterile.

Here in the Pacific Northwest you can spend any day of the year going after any of several different anadromous species in different rivers, for 365 days straight, and never repeat yourself and catch a great fish every single day! Example --- the late, great Jim Conway used to claim that he could catch a fish every day of the year in the Kalama River. I guarantee you that you can do that in the East and North forks of the Lewis. And I am sure there are several other rivers that can make that claim too.

There is absolutely no place like the Pacific Northwest. I have been fortunate to have fished many places around the U.S. in my life, but there is no place like home. `

[rags]

I agree Thumper, two fish today on your favorite river. There is no place like the Northwest!

[4Salt]

Personally, I would rather catch and release 30 15 to 25Lb. kings, than fish a couple of days for 1 70+. Obviously, anyone who has been to the Kenai peninsula in June/July knows that wilderness isolation this aint! On the other hand, if you go knowing what to expect, it isn't such a bad thing either. One man's solitude, is another man's multiple fish day [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Kim Katsion]

You know I would have never thought of myself as someone that is out to get that huge once in a life time fish! Famous last words!

Last year I did land a 60-65# fish but she was boot red and I let her go. She took me down river, upriver, across, we made boats stop fishing for about 20 minutes in one hole then she took us down river again.

This year I had another near that size also, and it just was kicking my butt. It is really a test of skills to see if you or the fish wins. The fish won that time.

I don't fish the Kenai for numbers of fish, it is purely a size issue. But to each there own. Kim

Just before heading for bed I opened an e-mail from member Centerpin, from Terrace B.C. He read this. In addtion to some other matters, he mentioned that he heard that the Skeena region test netting landed a King salmon weighing around 120 lbs. recently. I asked him to get the details from the Terrace office of the dept. of fisheries up there and e-mail them me. If it's a Kalum R. fish, anyone hooking it in that relatively narrow fast current river better have 50 lb. superbraid mainline and 80 lb. Maxima leader with X-strong 7/0 hook to have a chance at landing it against that current! People have landed fish up into the 80's up it, but have to be very good or lucky in that tough watershed. Someone landed a 93 pounder in the Skeena R. off the Kalum mouth several years ago and it was the world record until the 97 pounder landed on the Kenai. ...

A 126 pound King heading up into Rivers Inlet B.C. was netted and weight verified several years ago too. This one was commercial netted out in saltwater and kept. Many fish over 100 lbs. go up the roadless Killbella River in that B.C. area every year. Now that would be a great river for a helicopter/raft float trip!!! Nobody but bears and huge fish. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Chris Sessions]

Get bit,
I'll bite on this one. I think all popular fisheries tend to be over-rated, Tillamook included, and most are (or will become) crowded with anglers. It's human nature to report and remember the good days of multiple hookups and forget the days of long hours with no action and skunks. Being born (or hatched) and raised in Tillamook, I have fished the bay and rivers there for over 40 years and still love to do so. Although I have enjoyed many rewarding days in the Tillamook area, my largest salmon to date = 52lbs. If you want to try and compare salmon size - Tillamook to Kenai, here are some interesting personal stats. In the last 15 years of fishing the Kenai, I have slipped the net under 9 salmon weighing in between 70 and 80lbs. 14 between 60 and 70, 29 between 50 and 60 and countless others below 50.
This does not include the many fish that were released (at least 3 over 70) or fish hooked and fought for long periods (sometimes close to an hour) only to have the leader break or hook slip out without ever seeing the fish. This also doesn't include my x-partners stats (D Paulk) who usually out-fished me.
I love to fish the Kenai, Tillamook, most salmon/steelhead rivers in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Canada and Alaska.
Remote or popular fishing destinations...we always go to have fun.
Chris