hunter harrasment

baltz526 · 08-19-2007, 02:23 PM

ever been effected by hunter harassment? twice in my years of hunting i can remember occurances. once years ago on an elk hunting trip on the north end of klamath marsh, a guy was driving around shooting a shotgun spooking elk and yesterday not 15 miles from the same spot, a guy was driving his quad and firing a gun every time he cut my tracks crossing a dirt road. first time i thought it strange to here the shooting, but thought it was just yahoos being destructive, shooting signs? the second time i had just crossed the road and left about 75yds of tracks in the dust of his recent atv tracks. he knew i had just been there. he shot in two directions both of which where the direction my tracks lead. feeling generous, since i was only 50yds from him when he shot blind into the woods, i did not respond in kind (due to being completely safe sitting on a stump behind a small hog back) it did get me to thinking about legal remedy's. it was easy to identify the person in question, his tracks came from his cabin and returned there i'm sure, but to prove intent would be impossible. decisions are made everyday while hunting, that effect other hunters, be they bad or good decisions. since i did not deal with this yahoo, please be warned that if hunting the southwest fortrock unit there is a hunter harasser working off a 4wheeler.

mr_bones4 · 08-19-2007, 02:44 PM

Last year while duck hunting in a remote area, I was walking in the dark out to blind/huge stump that I normally sit behind. Since it was pitch black out still and I was only going by my headlight I was unaware that someone else was already sitting there (this is the only time there has ever been another person in this area). Evidently he could see me coming from the glow of my headlight and began shooting his shotgun in my direction. I could see the muzzle blast and hear the BB's landing all around me and hitting the water. I was confused at first, thinking maybe he was shooting ducks off of the water before day light, that was until he fired again. I was really, really ****** but as to not spoil the morning I walked away to a different location away from him and set up there. He fired once more while I was walking away. I and he were damn lucky he didn't hit me. Just as frustrating the guy left about 20 mins after day light, and I didn't ever get the opportunity to go speak my mind. Who does that?

Yeti · 08-19-2007, 02:59 PM

First of all I believe that would be considered reckless endangerment to shoot in your direction when he knows the tracks were there. As you stated intent would be very difficult to prove. Yet take a picture of yours and his tracks. If you can get his empty hulls in the picture even better. Use a stick to pick up his empty hulls and place them in a zip lock. I would then call the State police and fill them in on the situation. Let them know you have the empties that he littered with on public land. If you are lucky someone will have words with him. If he does this again, set him up. Have someone sit off the trail with a camera and film him in the act. Don't forget to wear your flack vest.

Sometimes you get lucky when you call the SP and get one that cares. I did this when I found a camp where I was scouting completely trashed. I was scouting daily so knew it was clean one day. The next day two idiots had completely trashed it. I found it while thier truck was still parked there and took a bunch of photos. The next day they were gone and the trash was still there. I called the SP and they put me in touch with a FS enforcement officer. On opening day of rifle season he drove in to see the mess. I ran into him and he just laughed. He had already written 5 tickets for people road hunting, driving with a loaded gun and no seat belts. He said he would check out the camp site and contact the owner of the truck I photographed. I got the impression that the guy would have to clean it up or get a ticket.

Bobberman · 08-19-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeti

First of all I believe that would be considered reckless endangerment to shoot in your direction when he knows the tracks were there. As you stated intent would be very difficult to prove. Yet take a picture of yours and his tracks. If you can get his empty hulls in the picture even better. Use a stick to pick up his empty hulls and place them in a zip lock. I would then call the State police and fill them in on the situation. Let them know you have the empties that he littered with on public land. If you are lucky someone will have words with him. If he does this again, set him up. Have someone sit off the trail with a camera and film him in the act. Don't forget to wear your flack vest.

Sometimes you get lucky when you call the SP and get one that cares. I did this when I found a camp where I was scouting completely trashed. I was scouting daily so knew it was clean one day. The next day two idiots had completely trashed it. I found it while thier truck was still parked there and took a bunch of photos. The next day they were gone and the trash was still there. I called the SP and they put me in touch with a FS enforcement officer. On opening day of rifle season he drove in to see the mess. I ran into him and he just laughed. He had already written 5 tickets for people road hunting, driving with a loaded gun and no seat belts. He said he would check out the camp site and contact the owner of the truck I photographed. I got the impression that the guy would have to clean it up or get a ticket.

Driving with a loaded gun? didn't know that was illegal, no seat belt that is a different story

08-19-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobberman

Driving with a loaded gun? didn't know that was illegal, no seat belt that is a different story

How does that work with CCW?

Chug · 08-19-2007, 04:20 PM

ALL ATV's No Guns allowed that are loaded!!. Unless your LAW DOG.
It is ILLEGAL TO CARRY A LOADED GUN on a ATV or snowmachine. CHL Holders are NOT exempt. Class B Traffic Infraction

Source: http://oregonfirearms.org/faq/

http://www.leg.state.or.us/05reg/measures/hb2800.dir/hb2803.intro.htm

Sounds like the fellow, should have a good talking too. should be reported to OSP, or sheriff. Least get it on Report.

08-19-2007, 04:48 PM

Ya I know about the quads but I didnt think you could have a loaded rifle in a truck? And if that is true how does a it work with a concealed handgun?

Bobberman · 08-19-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tulley

Ya I know about the quads but I didnt think you could have a loaded rifle in a truck? And if that is true how does a it work with a concealed handgun?

there are some strange gray areas that I don't understand involving school zones, but other than that locked and loaded in your street legal rig is ok.

BlacktailBowhunter · 08-19-2007, 07:53 PM

It is illegal for people to harass hunters. If you carry a cam corder, document it.

I was hunting deer on Sauvies Island in 1990 and there were mountain bikers riding through the area shouting, ringing bells, and in general making noise.

I know they were there to disturb my hunting area. They did outlaw the use of mountain bikes in that area at the N. end of the Island.

Cornbread · 08-19-2007, 08:08 PM

Had my tires slashed in Arizona once when I was archery deer hunting in college. Not sure if it was hunter harassment or just somebody being stupid like a bunch of teenagers or something like that. I had pulled off on a side road up on the rim and was hunting about an hour in from there. I walked out to find my front tires had been slashed. Luckily I was carrying spares for all four just in case because the roads were so bad up there.

Got One! · 08-19-2007, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltz526

ever been effected by hunter harassment? twice in my years of hunting i can remember occurances. once years ago on an elk hunting trip on the north end of klamath marsh, a guy was driving around shooting a shotgun spooking elk and yesterday not 15 miles from the same spot, a guy was driving his quad and firing a gun every time he cut my tracks crossing a dirt road. first time i thought it strange to here the shooting, but thought it was just yahoos being destructive, shooting signs? the second time i had just crossed the road and left about 75yds of tracks in the dust of his recent atv tracks. he knew i had just been there. he shot in two directions both of which where the direction my tracks lead. feeling generous, since i was only 50yds from him when he shot blind into the woods, i did not respond in kind (due to being completely safe sitting on a stump behind a small hog back) it did get me to thinking about legal remedy's. it was easy to identify the person in question, his tracks came from his cabin and returned there i'm sure, but to prove intent would be impossible. decisions are made everyday while hunting, that effect other hunters, be they bad or good decisions. since i did not deal with this yahoo, please be warned that if hunting the southwest fortrock unit there is a hunter harasser working off a 4wheeler.

he would have some time to think about it if the cops came

Just for starters. I would have had 911
Oregon 163.707. Forfeiture of Motor Vehicle Used in Drive-By Shooting

(1) A motor vehicle used by the owner in a drive-by shooting is subject to civil in rem forfeiture.
(2) Seizure and forfeiture proceedings under this section shall be conducted in accordance with Chapter 475A.
(3) As used in this section, "drive-by shooting" means discharge of a firearm from a motor vehicle while committing or attempting to commit:
(a) Aggravated murder under Section 163.095;
(b) Murder under Section 163.115;
(c) Manslaughter in any degree under Section 163.118 or 163.125;
(d) Assault in any degree under Section 163.160, 163.165, 163.175, or 163.185;
(e) Menacing under Section 163.190;
(f) Recklessly endangering another person under Section 163.195;
(g) Assaulting a public safety officer under Section 163.208; or
(h) Intimidation in any degree under Section 166.155 or 166.165.

baltz526 · 08-19-2007, 09:13 PM

the problem is proving intent, then there is all the time i would have wasted dealing with it and not hunting. yes a ticket for riding an atv with loaded firearm would have been issued, in all likelyhood, if i made the call and law enforcement arrived before he got back to his cabin. beyond that, i doubt he would have been ignorant enough to admit his motive for firing the gun, if he said he was shooting at a coyote, i cound not prove he was not.

Got One! · 08-20-2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltz526

the problem is proving intent, then there is all the time i would have wasted dealing with it and not hunting. yes a ticket for riding an atv with loaded firearm would have been issued, in all likelyhood, if i made the call and law enforcement arrived before he got back to his cabin. beyond that, i doubt he would have been ignorant enough to admit his motive for firing the gun, if he said he was shooting at a coyote, i cound not prove he was not.

To each there own I guess, I'd have called and had the file on record, he has probably done it before or will do it again. The Cops arent dumb, they will know what is going on in short order. The next guy out there may take exception to being fired at, and shoot back in order to defend themselves. (I gaurantee the cops don't want that)

Then of course he might be growing weed out there, making Meth, or his quad needs a tune up

Norm · 08-20-2007, 07:45 AM

I had a similar problem in K-Falls years ago on a late deer hunt. The one and only time I have ever put cross hairs on a human. It still makes me angry to this day. At first I though they were goofing around, then after I stood up to let them know we were there, it became obvious they didn't want us shoot "their" deer. I guess they thought a few shots over our heads would scare us off.

I often wonder if they new how close they came.

Kalamity · 08-20-2007, 07:59 AM

The only problem I've run into with harrassment were some morons driving past us to play in the mud.

My brother and I were sitting on the bottom of a clearcut at the end of a long day waiting for the elk to feed out of the trees into the top of the cut like always. You could hear them tromping around.

A friend pulls up and is giving us some tips about this spot and all of a sudden this jacked up blazer comes pulling up tromping on the gas trying to get us to move. There is maybe 100 yards of road left before it turns into a slimy nasty mess. That's where he wanted to be. As he drove through the ditch we caught his attention and he was informed we were hunting and what he was doing was wrong.

The kid made one pass through the mud, turned around and left after apologizing.

Of course there are always the people out there target shooting mid season, but what can you do. If they are being reckless, I swing by and say something.

Oregonhunter · 08-20-2007, 08:53 AM

Yep had the pleasure of it once on a turkey hunt 4 years ago.

I was hunting on private land and had one of the fellow land owners notice our blind they in turn called more folks and next thing I know they are all around me yelling and very upset.....they even came over on to the guys land I was hunting to do this and demanded to see my tags and all and told me I had no right to be there hunting their turkeys. The worst one in the group was a women who threaten me and wanted to see all my tags and my phone number....I told her no way I was going to give her my paperwork so she could tear them up (thats still what I think she wanted to do) and I sure was not going to give her my phone number so she could call and chew my wife out.

I did tell them they could call the State police and I would be happy to show the officer my tags but that only made things worse.

So after getting yelled at for longer than I care to I started packing up my stuff (no turkey was going to come into my setup now after all the noise anyways) Then the land owner showed up and told the others I was welcome there and they could go to.....(well you get the idea) He then told them to get off his land as well. As much as I hate to admit it they did kind of win that battle because I never went back to hunt there after that, I go to have fun and enjoy myself and the hassle was not worth it to me at the time.

So I stick to hunting public and or timber company lands now just because I dont want to be in that kind of situation again.

oh

Don Becker · 08-20-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got One!

To each there own I guess, I'd have called and had the file on record, he has probably done it before or will do it again. The Cops arent dumb, they will know what is going on in short order. The next guy out there may take exception to being fired at, and shoot back in order to defend themselves. (I gaurantee the cops don't want that)

Then of course he might be growing weed out there, making Meth, or his quad needs a tune up

CombinationLicense · 08-20-2007, 10:17 AM

I once had to deal with protesters at a youth pheasant hunt on Sauvie Island. Both the ODFW staff and law enforcement handled the situation well and did everything they could to make it hard for the vermin to actually access the kids. First off, they moved the pre-hunt safety meeting to to another location so the protesters all showed up at to a vacant Eastside Check Station. Then they issued access permits to only participants and their mentors to keep the Anti's out of the field. Law enforcement made it real clear to both the hunters and the protesters that getting caught in the field with out an entry permit was going to mean a one-way trip to jail for trespassing and hunter harassment. There's cell phone service there so we were instructed to just call 911 and the LEO's would handle it immediately.

That didn't stop the protesters entirely though and some of them hung around the check station most of the day - eventually getting to shout obscenities at a few kids coming back to check out for the day. We managed to miss them entirely but it changed the way I approach events like that. I'm happy to comply with law enforcement and support them 100%, but there does come a time when you're justified in defending yourself. Now I know the laws better so that I can invoke MY rights if necessary and I carry the nastiest pepper spray money can buy. I figure they will get one warning if they ever touch me, impede my path or otherwise assault me - after that the gloves will be off and the pepper spray will be used (and lots of it) to save me from going to jail for assault.

"CL"

Bobberman · 08-20-2007, 11:03 AM

It is great that there were law enforcement people there to enforce the laws, not always the case while out hunting.

I'n curious how spraying somone with peper spray will avoid assault charges?

Yeti · 08-20-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobberman

I'n curious how spraying somone with peper spray will avoid assault charges?

Non lethal self defence is justified if you feel threatened with violence. If someone makes a move toward you with what appears as intent to make bodily contact you are justified in defending yourself. The key word is appears. There is no way you can tell how far an aggressor is willing to take it. If they appear to you, or any other reasonable person eg jury, likely to assault you it is reasonable that you defend yourself. A person who is attempting to impeade you physically when your actions are lawfull is in fact assaulting you.

I have zero tollarance for anyone who acts in such a manner. I also don't have to wait until I am injured to defend myself.

uhmw · 08-20-2007, 11:52 AM

Ya Now that you mention it. Last year on the last day of 1st archery season we were in tillamook unit and we had found elk in the area. We put the camper down near the elk that night and went out befor it got light and started calling and getting them to come in- they approached to about 100 yards at about 5 am when suddenly some one started firing a gun like they were sighting in and target shooting about 300 yards away in a logging landing. I though it was gun hunters sighting in but at dawn????? now you got me thinkin.

uhmw · 08-20-2007, 12:27 PM

Once during the early goose season we set up in a feild in the complete darkness in the north unit on sauvies. sure as rain when it started to get light the goose started right for our set up and pop up blinds. we both poped up firing -to our horror we realized that we set up on a heard of cows and the shot guns freaked um into a stamped around our pop up blinds -Id say that was harassment.

Joss · 08-20-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltz526

the problem is proving intent, then there is all the time i would have wasted dealing with it and not hunting. yes a ticket for riding an atv with loaded firearm would have been issued, in all likelyhood, if i made the call and law enforcement arrived before he got back to his cabin. beyond that, i doubt he would have been ignorant enough to admit his motive for firing the gun, if he said he was shooting at a coyote, i cound not prove he was not.

Baltz*** If Reckless Endangering is what is being looked at you don't have to prove Intent, its reckless.

Reckless Endangering: A Person commits the crime of reckless endangering another person if the person engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person.

Class A misdemeanor. Bad guys goes to jail.

Then the officer could look into the laws of shooting from ATV etc.

I agree with not wanting to waste time with call lawenforcement but sometimes people need to be put on notice at minimum

Just my two cents.... Have a good season.

Joss

coyote243 · 08-20-2007, 02:46 PM

Need this guy on video to get him for sure. lay your track crossing the road just walk backwerds across the road so he thinks your on the other side, then fined a place to sit with a video camra. this also seems to be the kinda guy that would brake a trail cam if he found one so make a decoy trail cam and get him on video.

retaliate · 08-20-2007, 03:00 PM

Seen a small Airplane swooping down like a Crop Duster to what looked like scatter a Elk herd we were trying to get close to during Bow Hunting Season, later that day we heard what sounded like a war zone just a mile or so from our Camp, & a Forest ranger showed up so we asked him what was going on, he said they were having a Agricultural Hunt, where Ranchers were allowed to Shoot Deer & Elk, they were targeting Elk, & we heard they got over 30 head that day, seen Airplanes using similar tatics several times since, I think they use Airplanes mostly to sopt, & drive Elk Herd's in the Agricultural Hunters direction, phoney excuse for meat hunting if you ask me.

Lucky Guy · 08-20-2007, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baltz526

ever been effected by hunter harassment? twice in my years of hunting i can remember occurances. once years ago on an elk hunting trip on the north end of klamath marsh, a guy was driving around shooting a shotgun spooking elk and yesterday not 15 miles from the same spot, a guy was driving his quad and firing a gun every time he cut my tracks crossing a dirt road. first time i thought it strange to here the shooting, but thought it was just yahoos being destructive, shooting signs? the second time i had just crossed the road and left about 75yds of tracks in the dust of his recent atv tracks. he knew i had just been there. he shot in two directions both of which where the direction my tracks lead. feeling generous, since i was only 50yds from him when he shot blind into the woods, i did not respond in kind (due to being completely safe sitting on a stump behind a small hog back) it did get me to thinking about legal remedy's. it was easy to identify the person in question, his tracks came from his cabin and returned there i'm sure, but to prove intent would be impossible. decisions are made everyday while hunting, that effect other hunters, be they bad or good decisions. since i did not deal with this yahoo, please be warned that if hunting the southwest fortrock unit there is a hunter harasser working off a 4wheeler.

If I'm not mistaken it's illegal to carry a loaded gun on an ATV, much less shoot from it. I'd call the sheriff and if you witnessed this, and especially if he discharged a gun in your direction, I think you can make his life pretty miserable for the next few months. I'd talk to the county sheriff and see what they say about it.

baltz526 · 08-20-2007, 06:12 PM

yes i could ruin his next few months, but it could also ruin mine. court dates, etc. my time is very valuable to me in the fall, one court date in kfalls in november ruins a week of chukar hunting time. not a good trade to me.

toas243 · 08-20-2007, 08:02 PM

If some moron is shooting any where near me and my sons ( I usually hunt all the time with them ) ,I`am gonna kill them .................... I have lost one child allready and I will do any thing to keep from losing another even if taking a dirtbag's life ...........................

Maverick Maxcat · 08-20-2007, 10:18 PM

I can't help but think a round throught the gas tank would be justified about then, as well as entertaining....

StickFish · 08-21-2007, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maverick Maxcat

I can't help but think a round throught the gas tank would be justified about then, as well as entertaining....

One through the cylinder and he can walk back to his cabin IMO

Blue Seaduction · 08-21-2007, 06:21 AM

Amen, on firing back when some one is directly shooting your way when they know you are in that area.
When I was a teen and hunting elk in the Sled Springs area with my dad some guys were directly shooting in our direction hitting the trees above us. My Dad quickly said to drop to the gound flat. With no problem we did just that ! My dad returned a couple of rounds in the same direction. I think the idiots figured out it wasn't elk shooting back.
To this day I have no respect for Morons in the field.

Grantspastor · 08-21-2007, 10:57 AM

Baltz, I think you showed great restraint. It certainly would be tempting to return fire. The problem with that however is you don't know how far the other party is willing to go. It's sort of like shooting that first shot at an aggressive Grizzly bear. Once you do, you're committed to the process...

Got One! · 08-21-2007, 11:18 AM

If you ever have to shoot towards someone, you better be prepared to kill them (with the 1st shot) and you'de better have a good reason/ immediate fear for yourself. Even if you are justified, it aint gonna be pretty, especially when the lawyers of the family start the lawsuits.... and they will. I'm not suggesting that you would be wrong in protecting yourself, I'm saying the sharks will circle hoping for the 33% they suck out of you, plus the costs of protecting your $$ from the sharks with your own shark, even though they will probably not win. They are depending on the fact you see it will cost 100k+ to protect yourself from them and settle. If there is another way to take care of it...do it. (911)

Hunt'nFish · 08-21-2007, 02:03 PM

Richard,
I'd probably get his ATV permit #, truck/vehicle license, cabin address if any and at least call the county sheriff and report it. Like pointed out precedence laid down on paper is a powerful tool in court. Maybe not so much for you, but the next guy he harrases.

Like you said, you didn't see him shoot AT you, nor did you feel threatened.
But had he, I think I'd have educated him in the errors of his ways.
He's not real brite if you ask me. Some of us don't take kindly to being shot at.
Hunt'nFish

baltz526 · 08-21-2007, 06:50 PM

now if i had been directly shot at, i would never have posted anything on harassment. silence is the best defence, in legal matters.

CUTemALL · 08-21-2007, 08:53 PM

I don't know if this was harrasment or not may have just been a pilot practicing his landings but about 15 years ago on the Willamette near Peoria I was hunting ducks in a little backwater area and had a guy in a helicopter keeping circling the decoys and then touchdown on the island behind me this went on for a good hour before he finally left, this happened on more than one occasion. I didn't think much of it at the time then I read this post and it got me to thinking