How ugly is too ugly?

MasterCaster · 07-14-2001, 12:11 AM

I would like to hear some other opinions about how ugly is too ugly for a salmon/steelhead? How do you tell if the meat is still good as soon as you catch the fish? I know there are alot of different things people look for before deciding if they should keep a fish or not. I dont have any one thing I look for it just depends on the fish I guess. My father caught a springer on the north Santiam a few days ago and people were saying things everywhere from NICE FISH to GEEZZZZ thats a dark one. It wasnt chrome by any means but it wasnt ugly either and the meat was as red as it gets just like a tidewater chromer. What do you look for, how do you tell?

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Jon ]

sinker · 07-14-2001, 12:53 AM

Reminds me of a fall chinook that I caught a couple years ago. Little dark but not bad. First king meant I didn't care it was going home with me. Meat was real orange and kinda mushy.
Meat was in a lot worse shape than it looked like on the outside. I pity the idiots taking home the black ones with the white spots.
[img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Jennie@ifish · 07-14-2001, 05:35 AM

Gags me when people catch oldies and say, "Oh! I'm going to smoke it!" as the flesh falls from it's sides...
I always say, "You must have an excellent smoker..."
Gag.
Jen

HOGTIDE · 07-14-2001, 06:40 AM

Whew...that takes a load off. I saw the title of your thread and I thought someone was going to kick me off the BB because of my looks [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I know this is blasphame on this site, but I'm not a great fish eater. So...if even close to questionable in color I tend to release them. I have noticed, however, that in both Salmon and Steelhead, bucks can look pretty dark and still have firm red meat. While females that even look a bit off color, maybe washed out and soft inside.

Jennie@ifish · 07-14-2001, 06:45 AM

I've seen people slice a small slice in the tail of a fish to look at the meat before releasing or keeping.
This isn't ethical, is it?
I think it's awful!
Jen

HOGTIDE · 07-14-2001, 06:54 AM

I've heard that same thing, Jen. Doesn't sound very sportsmanlike to cut into a live critter and then let it go, if found unsatsfactory. Again, if it's that questionable...set that black boot free!

alwyze fishin · 07-14-2001, 06:58 AM

Jennie yes it is in my mind.

If it looks like the tire on your car let it go so it can become a food source for the little guys

SandyRiverFisher · 07-14-2001, 08:18 AM

It makes me sick to see people killing a questionable fish. Ive known several people who have told me about getting a fish home and then throwing the whole thing away because the meat was mushy.

Another thing that disturbs me is all the "trophy" shots you see of peoples trips to Alaska. I cant tell you how many pictures Ive seen of seventy plus pound fish that where in spawning colors taken from Alaskan rivers. Lots of people think its OK to kill a fish because of its size, regardless of wether they will be able to eat it or not. I say let the big ones go especially if they are dark. lets keep those good genetics where they belong, in the gene pool.

On the other hand I have also had people tell me I had killed a fish that they would heve let go. I remember one time I caught a nice hatchery hen steelhead who had a pronouced red stripe, but was still very bright. As I was walking out a guy told me he never keeps a fish with any color at all, that there meat is never any good. Oh well, that means more in the river for me I guess, especially since that fish ended up still having nice firm red meat.

Basically, it all comes down to personal preference. Native americans historically would spear spawning fish off of their redds for consumtion. It seems they had no problem with the mushy white meat.

The Golden rule I guess is that if you kill it you better plan on eating it. If you have to ask yoursefl wether or not the fish is edible you probably had better turn it loose. When in doubt, RELEASE!

P.S., Jennie, that story of people cutting fish and then turning them lose is disgusting! Talk about giving fisherpeople a bad name! If I see anyone doing that Il call the state cops, as it definitely is not legal. Falls under either "harassing a game fish", or "wasting a game fish", I would think. Why cant people just enjoy the fishing and not worry so much about the harvesting? If you catch a nice chromer for the grill then great, if not then have fun releasing any fish that is questionable.

MasterCaster · 07-14-2001, 09:55 AM

I have found that Spring chinook can be alot darker and still have excelent meat as compared to fall fish where if they are grey on the belly it goes back this is the first year we have kept anything other than a chromer and all the darker springers that we have caught have had excelent meat firm and red of course they had no white spots or sores all those fish get released right away. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] as for this cutting a fish to check I think that is horribly inhumane! I would never cut a fish before releasing it! Like most of you have already said If there is any doubt just let it go and catch another. Theres alotta fish out there to be caught.

CAGEY · 07-14-2001, 12:22 PM

I have a fool proof method. If the fish is beyond cloud gray back he goes. A lot of if not all of them will turn color if they have been in the river for awhile although i have never seen a dark or gray steelhead. Just my way, not saying its the best method. [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

Snapset · 07-14-2001, 06:56 PM

I will confess that I have learned a few things the hard way. These are a few of the things I have learned:

Summer Steelhead and Spring Chinook:
As the fish approach their spawning time, they lose the color and oily richness of their meat. The energy in these oily reserves goes to the eggs in the hens, hence their proclivity to go white before the bucks. Remember, springers spawn about the same time as fall chinook, and summer steelhead spawn even later. Springers in general are going to turn color in the rivers while their meat is still a deep red, while Fall Chinook turn white as their skin turns dark. Don't be too quick to judge someone who is toting an old blackie springer along the bank of the river, all chinook turn quite dark within an hour of their death. Remember, springers spawn about the same time as fall chinook, and summer steelhead spawn even later. So, I have found that Springers and Summer steelhead can both be kept with a little bit of color on their sides.

Fall Chinook, Silvers, and Winter Steelhead: Look at the brightness of the belly, if it is white, it is fine but if there is a dark stripe or the color of the skin is gray, turn it loose, save yourself the nuisance of a fish you don't want to eat. Saving the darkies for the smoker is always a bad idea.

If you do happen to tag Mr. Alabaster, filet the meat boneless, fry it in a good Fish-n-Chips batter, plug your nose, and gag it down with a lot of tartar sauce. Actually, it will still be a big improvement on the mush they sell at Skippers.

DF · 07-14-2001, 10:51 PM

Dont worry Hogtide they wont kick you of the BB beacuse of your looks, But mabye because on the side of your pretty black and red trolling motor said SAIL POWER ! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

how long did that take to get off?? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Dustin ]

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: Dustin ]

urb · 07-15-2001, 09:46 AM

If you don't have to squint when you see the fish it isn't worth keeping

Krome Brite · 07-15-2001, 01:41 PM

A couple years ago, I seen a couple guys taking silvers while plunking on a local river. These guys would hold their poles and wait for the "bite" which they claimed was a small peck or two like a trout. Then they would jerk and pull the fish right out of the water and onto shore. These fish were dark black/red, scabby, and spilling their eggs/sperm. The guys told everybody there that they were nice keeper fish and they would smoke great. Nasty, I think that's stretching it a little too far to take fish like that. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

07-15-2001, 06:39 PM

This is an example of ugly

These are examples of TOO ugly

Oh, you meant ugly fish
[img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Stew

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: BIGSTEW ]

Navigator · 07-15-2001, 08:37 PM

Guilty as charged.

I caught a spawned out coho hen (hatchery stray) in the lower Trask River many years ago. I really didn't mean to do it. I avoided the fish on the way in (to fish for chinook in a deeper hole) and after fishing the morning, threw in a egg cluster amongst the cruising coho (in a pool just below some redds) on the way back to the car. Mistake. The hen gobbled them up immediately and I hooked the thing deep in the throat and gills. The fish was dark (very dark) but not spotted with fungus (okay maybe the tail). This being my first Oregon salmon, I kept it. I put it on ice, marinated the meat (which was white) in white wine and baked it. So, we did eat it. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't salmon. No deaths or illness from the family either.

Years later, I redeemed myself. I caught a nice looking fall tule on the Sandy on a spinner. The fish was bright looking but had a faded look to it in the tail. It was not dark. But having learned a lesson and being sensitive to wild fish stocks, I released it.

Epilogue. The next coho I brought home was from Buoy 10 in September.